Need opinions on this. BP says they will not pay for salaries of those hurt by 6 month moratorium

[stevenleser]

I am pissed at them for a lot of reasons and think they should pay for a lot of things. I'm not sure about this one.

Thoughts?

[Hawkeye-X]

1. Where'd you hear this?

Since BP is responsible for the spill, they are obligated to pay ALL livliehood of the people of the Gulf.

Remember, civil lawsuits are already filed and waiting, especially those whose livelihood were cut off thanks to the spill.

[aquart]

4. Absolutely. EVERY repercussion is theirs and theirs alone.

The government didn't give them stiff enough regulations so it's the gov's fault? NO! It's STILL all on them.

They chose cheap. Now we get to choose prohibitively expensive.

I want their stock selling for ten cents a share. Will people suffer? The free market regulates by death.

[Statistical]

22. BP didn't put a 6 month ban on drilling in Gulf.

The government did.
BP has no liability in this (one) instance.

Obama has already stated he has no legal authority to force BP to pay for idled worker (workers idled by federal action).

[stevenleser]

5. Its going to be all over the news in the next 2 hrs. You can probably guess where I heard it

;-)

[KansDem]

9. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the OP was referring to BP employees.

Of course, BP needs to pay for all livelihoods ruined by its criminal malfeasance. But salaries for its employees is between them and BP.

[stevenleser]

13. No, not just BP employees, all workers hurt by moratorium

that is what they just said

[KansDem]

15. Then I agree...

This wasn't just an "accident"...it was criminal malfeasance.

[stevenleser]

17. OK, let me put it another way and see if you still agree

Joe's skate company makes roller skates in the 14th century. Something about the way they were making skates is unsafe. Suzy bought a pair of their skates and promptly broke her ankle. It was determined that the accident was due to the way that Joe's skate company was making skates, and there is a fear that other skating companies have the same issue with their manufacturing and that Joe's skate company and the rest of the industry had reason to suspect there was an issue. A moratorium is imposed on the making of skates.

should Joe's skate company be responsible for paying the workers of other skate companies during the moratorium?

[KansDem]

25. I see. You're referring to *other* oil companies drilling in the gulf...

Sorry, I didn't make the connection.

It does raise an issue, then. I don't know. It seems that until the Gulf is cleaned up, BP needs to pay out for the salaries for the other oil companies, too. Otherwise, another oil gusher by another negligent company might go unnoticed and make the Gulf even more foul...

[stevenleser]

33. I would agree if there was something about the spill that made

ongoing operations in the gulf unsafe. If the concern is that those other companies might be following practices that are also unsafe, I can't get there.

[stevenleser]

28. I put this comment in the wrong place, please delete

[KansDem]

2. That's between BP and its employees...

If BP didn't play fast and loose with safety and environmental regulations, then it wouldn't be in this mess.

[Statistical]

21. Not just BP employees. All oil exploration in the Gulf is halted.

Affects a lot more than BP employees. Tens of thousands of jobs are related to energy in the Gulf.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

3. regardless of what i think...

BP cannot be required to pay for a work stoppage that they didn't cause. the oil spill does not mean other drillers have to stop operating. the feds are punishing the people of LA, TX, MS and AL for the bullshit from the top of BP that caused this problem. honestly, i think it is a bad move...

sP

[aquart]

7. But they did cause it.

It would not have been ordered if not for their spill. Sorry. This is still ALL on BP. Any measure WE feel forced to take was caused by BP's actions.

And I am ashamed of anyone who helps them wiggle out of the misery they have caused.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

12. like i said...regardless of what i think...

the feds didn't just shut down BP...they shut it all down in a moratorium...BP, while playing fast and loose, should be punished...the others? well, the feds have already decided...and it will be political fodder in those four states...for certain.

sP

[stevenleser]

16. But the reason is only tangentially related to the spill

The moratorium is about making sure that drilling can be done safely, if at all. Thus it was prompted by the spill, but the entire industry is in question, as it should have been without this accident IMHO.

There is just a big problem making BP pay for drilling workers from other companies and other projects who are now not drilling because of the moratorium. I think they should pay every cleanup penny and everyone whose livelihood was directly and indirectly impacted by the spill. The moratorium is something that is not included in that, IMHO. Unless I hear a good argument otherwise.

[Statistical]

23. Obama has already backtracked. Saus he doesn't have legal authority to demand BP pay idled workers.

The govt idled workers they can't them pass that liability on to BP.

When Toyota had a recall if the govt banned all motor vehicle movement for 6 months would Toyota be liable for all claims that resulted from that?

[aquart]

37. Would they be out of work without the spill? No.

BP did it.

[stevenleser]

10. I am partially leaning in your direction...

but I do not agree that the feds are 'punishing' the other people, nor do I agree it is a bad move. It should be permanent, we should not be drilling, period.

But should BP pay for the moratorium? I can't get there.

[daa]

6. Who paid me when my job went to India?

Their unemployment will be longer than mine was.

[Generic Other]

8. Nice way to get the workers to blame the government for their woes

Treating the government just like they treat unions.

BP should honor their commitments. They created the mess.

[Trillo]

11. I hadn't heard that, but if true

then the "making those hurt whole again" (a paraphrase no doubt) was just lying PR.

[JDPriestly]

14. This may depend on state law.

If you lost your job and think you won't be paid, you might want to check with a lawyer in the state in which you were working. A lot depends on the facts in your specific case and, assuming you are laid off, the grounds BP gave for laying you off.

Also, are you working under a contract or did you have an Employees Manual? You might want to check what they say about this situation.

The moratorium has been imposed to protect you, to insure your safety. It's going to be tough, but think of the eleven men who died on that rig -- needlessly. I'm hoping that the Obama administration is reviewing all the safety conditions on the existing rigs everywhere. Clearly, Salazar's Interior Department and the Bush cronies who ran it before Salazar have not been doing their jobs.

E-mail Obama on the White House.gov website, and call your Senators and Congressman or woman. This is absolutely essential. Ask for compensation. Don't ask to have the moratorium lifted. You have to think of your safety. Considering the financial loss incurred due to the moratorium, it will be lifted as soon as possible, I assure you.

[Catherina]

18. Expropriate BP and take care of those people. NOW n/t

[stevenleser]

19. BP isnt an American company, but I get what you are saying.

I have no problem with doing that, just not on the basis of the moratorium.

[Catherina]

34. Does it not amaze you that we've gone to war against countries

under flimsier pretexts yet we won't say boo to BP?

BP has assets in the US. Seize those now. The assets of BP North America, including ARCO, are over $240 billion.

We've seized the assets of foreign companies that we alleged posed domestic threats, is this any different? We even have a category for environmental terrorists to lock up animal activists. When it comes to real environmenta terrorists, I think BP qualifies.

Britain is screaming about losing the pension money they invested in BP stocks. If the US and the UK had a shred of care for real people, little people, they'd work together on this.

I'm tired, heartbroken and disgusted Steven.

[stevenleser]

35. We've actually said a lot to BP, some of which may be Unconstitutional

the paying for the costs of the moratorium is probably both unfair and unconstitutional. I sympathize with Obama for saying it, but it isnt going to work.

IMHO, everything else besides moratorium related costs, they should have to pay. Unfortunately, there is that little law regarding the $75 million cap, but laws like that can be argued against if it can be proven that BP was extraordinarily negligent. We'll see.

[Mimosa]

36. If the US doesn't take them into receivership BP will move assets and go bankrupt

If the US doesn't take them into receivership BP will move assets and go bankrupt. They will not clean up the environment (not that they really can but they can do some restoration). nor will they pay claims.

[kirby]

20. This is fair...

The ENTIRE oil industry has not invested and is incapable of handling a spill in deep water. None of them should be allowed to drill until they can demonstrate the technology to completely and rapidly contain a spill. They fact that they were allowed to work over the past years while being unprepared does not entitle them. This is not a BP issue.

[stevenleser]

31. Well said, you are exactly where I am on this issue. But I am willing to listen to other opinions

I'd love to hear one where I could argue (and believe) that BP should pay.

[mikelgb]

24. What power do you have to do anything about it?

You need opinions?

[stevenleser]

26. I might be on TV giving my opinion. But, that isnt really any power to do anything about it.

I get a lot of ideas on DU. Sometimes people here even change my mind about things.

[dipsydoodle]

27. The original of the subject

was Obama saying that BP should cover the wages of those unable to work because of the 6 month moritorium HE had placed on drilling in the Gulf. The fact he has no legal means of implementing that is incidental. It's being discussed as we chatter on some of the financial news channels regarding what BP may and may not be liable for and the lawyer representing some claims said that one wouldn't wash.

[stevenleser]

29. Thank you my fellow DUers for all comments so far and any more that may come in

very useful and interesting.

If BP was smart, and it is clear that they are NOT, they would offer to pick up this cost we are debating. Sure it is huge, but it really is small potatoes compared to what BP earns. And it would buy them some goodwill.

[TheKentuckian]

30. Meh...either BP can pay or the other oil companies should be made to pay their people

because they are also lying fucks who falsified their safety and clean up plans and as such cannot reasonably operate.

Either way works for me, as long as the workers are squared away.

The entire industry should be on fire drill anyway to demonstrate their plans and ability to stop and clean up a spill of this magnitude. Every damn one of them claims they can more than handle this kind of problem and should be made to prove it.

[treestar]

32. They should sue BP

There is a direct causal link there. That said, some will sue the government. But the government is not necessarily negligent for this shut down. To say the moratorium is negligent after the spill is a hard case to make.

[canetoad]

38. So, a set of circumstances

-set up by Cheney, Bush and countless others before them
-exploited by countless multi-national corporations
-leading to lessened oversight at site operations
-resulting in many deaths and a disasterous oil leak
-which prompted tougher measures and rules
-causes hardship to workers who had no say in the process in the first place


Don't tell me life is fair.

[jeanpalmer]

39. It's a llegal issue of causation

What caused the moratorium that caused the job losses? Was the spill itself the cause of the moratorium, or was it the government's opinion that there were general issues pertaining to the safety of offshore drilling and the adequacy of regulations. I think it was the latter. So in that sense, BP's actions didn't cause the job losses, the government's opinions and actions did.

There's no question the spill led to the moratorium and job losses. But imo it's a case of one thing preceding another thing and related to it but not causing it.

[blindpig]

40. Expropriate without compensation