AFL CIO COULD have indeed used their money to help re-elect progressive caucus members.

[phleshdef]

But instead they spent 10 million to defeat one blue dog Democrat (Lincoln), which would have only put another blue dog Democrat (Halter) in her place.

Why are people so pissed off over this very true point? If you are a true progressive and can't see that, then you are blinded by your own desire or vengeance against Blanche Lincoln and that desire apparently outweighs your progressive values.

Alan Grayson, Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold... just to name a few progressives... are up for re-election this year. The whole thing would have been justified if Bill Halter was anything like those names I just mentioned, but he isn't. His politics is more like Lincoln or Nelson or Landreiu.

Progressives who support labor and value its influence shouldn't be happy when labor squanders that influence on nothing more than a campaign of vendetta. And we shouldn't cheer the AFL CIO on when its leadership decides to flush 10 million dollars down the toilet to elect one blue dog Democrat over the other.

The AFL CIO leadership made a poorly thought out, poorly judged decision that didn't make a lot of sense beyond getting back at Lincoln. That would have been fine if they were actually working to replace her with someone all that different but they weren't. They acted "stupidly". Admit it. Get over it. Move on.

[HillbillyBob]

1. I saw Halter being interviewed the other day

the main thing that came to mind..another slippery slimy hack..

[phleshdef]

3. I don't hate the guy. He is a blue dog Democrat in a red as red can be state.

I'd rather have him or Lincoln any day, considering thats about the best you are going to get out of Arkansas in this day and age.

Some people just refuse to accept political realities, one of them being that progressive values do not yet dominate and in some areas of the country, virtually nonexistent.

[IndianaJoe]

2. Why do you say Halter was "another Blue Dog"

I wasn't following it too closely, but I understood Halter was supposed to be much more of a Progressive than Blanche.

[4lbs]

11. Remember, Halter was the Lt. Governor. LtG of a relatively moderative/conservative state.

A Democrat isn't going to be elected Lt. Gov of that state by being lefty Progressive.

He worked closely with the Clinton Administration in the 1990s. He was a senior adviser to the OMB then Deputy Commish of the SSA during Clinton's presidency.

He also worked as a management consultant in McKinsey & Company, a top advising firm to the world's leading businesses.

He was also on the board of directors of several large IT and biotech companies.

So, a pro-business moderate Democrat. That's pretty Blue Dog.

I don't know why the labor unions globbed onto him. There's nothing in his past that showed he did much of anything favorable for unions.

[IndianaJoe]

12. Well, you're obviously a lot closer to it all than me.

I'm sure the Union love of the guy was prompted in part by the fact that he wasn't Blanche Lincoln. But I thought he was much more pro-Health Care than Blanche was. Everything I heard about the race was that he was forcing Lincoln to the left a bit.

Also for all the connections you name, few are more corporatist than Blanche.

[4lbs]

13. True. Blanche is pretty corporatist herself. Her big donations from big business attest to that.

But, I didn't pretend to think that Halter was radically different from her. Let's say that if Blanche Lincoln was 100% on the Corporate Democrat scale, Halter would be about a 90%.

[phleshdef]

15. Its like I said, they weren't for Halter so much as they were against Lincoln.

But save for giving unproveable lip service to the public option, there was no reason to think Halter would be all that different.

[IndianaJoe]

20. Blanche was always sort of a non-descript nobody

on my remote political radar. I perceived her from here up northwards as kind of a bland zero like that other guy, Mark Pryor. I always thought of her as better than a Republican alternative but that was about it. Until health care came up. That's when Blanche got more important to me.

I kept seeing her name pop up as one of the obstructionists. One of those whose vote always was iffy. One that just might join in a Republican filibuster; one that the insurance companies had bought up; one that when things came to crunch time, you couldn't rely on. One of those -- like Landrieu, and Lieberman, and Ben Nelson, and Byron Dorgon who were all too ready to vote with the enemy, and for that reason who had to be kowtowed to and appeased by watering it all down.

So, yeah. She rankled me. And I wanted her gone. And if she was just a shmeensy bit more of a red-stater than Halter, that was certainly reason enough for me to try to put her out on her can.

Maybe the Unions didn't get the job done. But I bet next time around Blanche remembers she was forced into a run-off for being too corporatist; that she was behind in the polls; and that she only pulled her ass out of the fire by a measly 10,000 votes. And maybe we'll all be better for it. We'll see.

But hat's off to the Unions from my perspective. Progressives always lose for a while. But eventually, they win. Good ideas ultimately triumph over corporate stooges.

[DCBob]

4. If Halter had won.. within 6 months the unions and progressives would be after his head too..

His main attraction was that he wasnt Lincoln.

[EFerrari]

6. I don't think I understand this. Do we just show up for fundraising rounds?

You do understand this is an ongoing process, right? It's not like buying a refrigerator.

[DCBob]

8. Just trying to make the point that many were fixated on removing Lincoln..

when in fact Halter is more of the same.

[IndianaJoe]

10. Agreed. If I don't like Lincoln, why can't I put my money

on someone I perceive as better. And by the way, Halter just barely lost to Corporate Blanche.

[phleshdef]

18. What you just said is exactly the point in my OP, whether you realize it or not.

Lincoln and Halter are not all that different. If you want to put your money towards someone you perceive as better (and if it was 10 million bucks and you were the AFL CIO), why don't you put that money in some other state where there are some actual progressives running. In this particular case of Arkansas, there weren't any.

[IndianaJoe]

21. To send Blanche a message, maybe.

And if Halter was a tad bit bluer and more leftie than Blanche, maybe it was worth the price. Kinda like Sestak & Spector.

That's politics too. And also, in a way, pragmatic.

And $10 Million in the scheme of things isn't much. And maybe, just maybe, Blanche will remember what happened to her.

[phleshdef]

26. 10 million is a lot when its local congressional races.

I'd rather they divided that money up between Feingold, Kucinich, Grayson and a few others.

[IndianaJoe]

27. Well, I hear what you're saying. But remember too that Blanche

almost got her butt handed to her. It is a lesson that might make her a little more cooperative in the future. It also might serve as a reminder to others.

And who's to say that if some of those you mention that are friends to the working men of this country -- "true Progressives" -- come to need financial support, that Union money won't be there for them simply because it was all spent on Blanche. I suspect that there's apt to be more money from the same people (not just Unions) that were trying to get rid of Blanche if those other elections truly become important.

[EFerrari]

5. Yes, browbeat donating voters! That's the ticket!

[donco6]

7. Gosh, I'm sure they'll all rethink their donations next time.

I sure am.

[mmonk]

9. You can't send a message without challenging the status quo.

[phleshdef]

17. Challenging status quo = replacing it with more status quo then?

[mmonk]

32. You don't understand the nature of a shakeup.

It's a show of what you can do if your concerns are dismissed and opposed.

[Catherina]

14. Unrec. We will work to unseat ALL the DINOs n/t

[phleshdef]

16. By working to seat another DINO in her place apparently.

[Catherina]

19. You would know n/t

[laughingliberal]

22. Another one who can also be primaried if they sell out.

May take a while but if we keep challenging the corporate complicit, they might start hesitating before they sell out the working class.

[Atticus]

23. In cases as extreme as Lincoln and Lieberman, I'd be in favor of working to seat a pile

of warmed-over dog shit in their place.

Vengeance? Yes. Punishing traitors who aid and abet the opposition while embarrassing and obstructing their President, their party and the majority of Americans should expect no less.

It was money well spent and similar amounts should be spent to oppose any candidate who openly worships at the altar of Ayn Rand and Rush Limbaugh.

[phleshdef]

24. Money that produces 0% of the intended result is money well spent?

I don't know which is worse. Your childish desire to engage in political bloodsports of revenge or your poor financial management skills.

[IndianaJoe]

28. Well, you're right Blanche survived.

But it was a very close thing. And as I mentioned, her winning came with a lesson. Cross the country's Progressives and your cush Senate seat might get pulled out from under you. If that lesson resonates from what happened to her in Arkansas, it might elsewhere.

[Atticus]

29. And your post could be characterized as "childishly" scolding labor unions and liberals

(hey---aren't those groups like the heart and soul of the party?) for refusing to "keep their powder dry".

And, if you don't think politics justifies being conducted as a "bloodsport", you may be way too comfortable with the status quo.

I will kiss ass, if necessary, to get people elected who will work to advance liberal values. But, I will also kick ass, if necessary, to help our friends and punish our enemies. I think anything less than that is "childish".

I'm sure we agree about more than we disagree on.

[socialist_n_TN]

31. Only if the new DINO is at least

INCREMENTALLY more left that the one replaced. That would be progress. It was actually something of a victory in that I believe it DID send a message. Labor's support must be earned, not expected by Divine Right.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. What Union are you a member of, OP?

[Earth Bound Misfit]

33. Wait'll you see how much they "flush down the toilet" in '12.

DUMBYA said it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

[Bryn]

34. UNREC. I am sick and tired of people beating Arkansas down!

Arkansas deserves better. I keep seeing old tired things like "Arkansas is RED" "It's Arkansas" as if you think everyone here in Arkansas is backwards.

I will forever grantful to unions for what they did. Bill Halter isn't BLUE DOG. Stop acting like Faux News, making up things. He's progressive compared to Lincoln and isn't for the corporations. He supports Medicare for all, supports working people, supports protecting Social Security, he does not support jobs going overseas. Go to www.billhalter.com and look at issues he supports.

It's like you think those unions are idiots. They're NOT idiots and knew what they were doing otherwise they would not have wasted 10 millions dollars right out of their paychecks.

Since you're from Ohio it's too easy for you to beat down Arkansas. We have lots of progressives, DUers, Blue Arkansas, Arkansas Greens here. We want to keep on fighting to make it grow.

[dionysus]

35. oh boy!

:popcorn: