Necessary changes for a post oil dependent world

[nadinbrzezinski]

so I have been thinking about it. What do we need to change in order to move beyond oil? I know a lot of people need to scream that they want change. So here are some real life style changes that will be hard as hell to implement, in my view.

1.- Less meat\ dairy in your diets. Can you do that? Not only will it be healthier for you, but raising a pound of flesh takes a lot of energy. Raising a pound of vegetable matter, even in industrial agriculture, is still a lot less energy. And I know many in this country that will not take that step... we have, not because we are superior or better, but because it is responsible and healthier too.

2.- Use, reuse, recycle... realize though that a lot of this is a feel good measure as a lot of those recycled goods still end up in the trash. Sadly I am not kidding, but we still do that.

3.- Use less energy... this means turn off the lights when you come out a room... still fighting this fight with hubby by the way.

4.- Set your computer not for a screen saver, but to turn off after oh fifteen minutes on no use. We call it sleep mode, and modern computers should be able to do that easily.

5.- Use a sweater in the winter, and use fans in the summer. Or if you have an ultra modern AC unit, like we do now, realize that if you turn it on and off you use more energy. My unit draws 0.04 amps, less than my laptop ok. So if you can, change your appliances to less energy hugs.

Still in the end what needs to happen is at a policy level. We need to tax carbon use, we need to build public utilities\ transportation and all that which are far more efficient. And we all need to reduce the number of miles we drive each year. These are the kinds of changes that REQUIRE policy level changes. No you can tell me take public transportation, that is nice, when that does not exist, or use a bike, nice again, when that is not possible.

At a policy level we could give tax breaks to companies that use telecomnuting, (Jobs like office work can do that)... or that encourage employees to use mass transit when available, or use one vehicle to transport several workers, or to essentially get their own transport system. You know company vans and things like that. Those are the kinds of things we need to encourage, as well as for families to buy far more efficient family cars instead of ... SUVs... I am sorry, my mom used a CAR to transport us kids in Mexico City, why the hell do we need three ton vans when we could do this with 1 ton cars?

Now this will have to be done at the policy level, because gulf or no gulf, Americans still are buying large vehicles. Yes this also means higher gas taxes or charging people by miles driven... and yes I expect to hear it, but what about poor people? Granted, why all this has to be done with whole sale expansions of public transportation, you know options. If we do one without the other, it is doomed to failure.

And yes individuals can do some of a difference, but REAL changes need to occur at the policy level... so vote for those who believe like you, or not... I have come to the conclusion that Americans are too much a bunch of children to make the changes and given how much energy we consume... what is coming is a civilization collapse, and perhaps in my life time. I mean, people want change, but nothing that will affect their life style...

[Go2Peace]

1. I already do all those things.

I use far less energy and consume much less than the vast majority (other than my old computer, and I am shopping the energy efficient options as they have started coming out). Even so, I think the nation is so set in it's ways and confused by propaganda that it is going to take a mass effort to push or the price of oil to double or triple. That is how Europe did it. Europe taxed the hell out of oil for 30 years. They had $4-6 per gallon gas when we had $1.50. That has resulted in a more frugal society.

NOW would be the perfect time to announce a "self sufficiancy" oil tax. I doubt there has been a better time in recent memory to do such a thing than during this oil catastrophy. I doubt it will happen though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. As you have noticed you do that, I do that

but how about the neighbors?

It will take some pain... and we don't like pain here... why I said in the aggregate we are a civilization of children.

[Go2Peace]

3. we have been taught to be irresponsible and given excuses

We have had some of the strongest environmental organizations in the world here since the 70s yet we still have trouble getting traction. I just don't think it will happen until people are forced toward it by policy, just like what happened in Europe. I know that is not an easy thing to impliment in this environment, but I think it is our only option. We have an extraordinarily confused public due to heavy propaganda for so many years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Why I said the changes have to happen at a policy level

What Europe saw were heavy gas taxes as well as other energy taxes, as well as laws to increase energy efficiency.

It is a two pronged approach and here we have relied on the INDIVIDUAL to make the changes, (aka the market, as poorly understood as it is) instead of the society, aka the WE.

[Go2Peace]

10. My bad. Yes we agree

I just got off a post saying the opposite and wasn't changing gears well.

Thanks for your OP!

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. oh you welcome

I fear though that people want BP to pay, but are not ready to make changes themselves. And it goes without saying that BP has to pay.

[L0oniX]

5. your vote will never get the world to make the great turn away from oil based energy.

There is no replacement for oil based energy ...and there never will be. Denial is all there is left.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Well then the civilization will collapse

since if there is no replacement, what will happen when we reach Peak Oil?

Oh wait, we are there...

[L0oniX]

9. We can only live in cities because of oil energy for food transport ...imagine that effect.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. No oil energy

Human populations will crash and cities will go down radically in size.

I know exactly what we are dealing with... and perhaps there is no way around the population collapse, but the first step really is that Americans really have no idea. Look at the answers here.

By the way, I am talking of a 6 to 6.5 billion population collapse... if not outright species extinction.

[Go2Peace]

14. If we survive Global warming some countries are set to do OK

We make a mistake in thinking other countries are as resistant as we are. The European mindset is much more adaptive. Just look at Germany and it's huge solar push. As long as our supercapitalists don't succeed in gutting their systems first they will survive much better than we will. At least if we don't have a wholesale change in our political structure.

One thing Americans *can* do though, if we decide something is needed we can turn on a dime. Unfortunately all of the propaganda makes it difficult for Americans to understand the challenges and what is needed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Here it is beyond propaganda

it is also about national philosophy.. I mean no stinking guv'ment can make me do no thing... I 'eam that is socialist and such, how commie of you?

Sadly I am not kidding.

This is in our national DNA.

[BanTheGOP]

6. SIMPLE SOLUTION: Gradated Pricing

1. Charge a flat rate $3.00 per gallon for all cars that make 30+ gallons/mile
2. Charge $10.00 gallon for everything else.

Of course, this is dependent on nationalizing all oil companies, and unless the republican party is banned, it ain't happenin'.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Taht is a policy solution

problem is good luck implementing that at the pump, which reminds me... what are your options, you know REAL alternatives?

It might make you feel good, but this is a very simplistic solution to a very complex problem...

[BanTheGOP]

16. Technologically, it's a snap

Technologically, it's a snap to implement. Using a sensor in the pump that matches the one in the car would trigger the $3.00 price, otherwise the $10.00 price occurs. This will have to be gradated over time, of course, but frankly, this is a solution based upon relative fairness until we can legislate all vehicles under 30 mpg out of the market, or ideally, all gas cars completely in a couple of decades.

Policy-wise, though, it won't happen...UNLESS we ban the republican party, which I've belabored ad infinitum all over the place here.

[Bonobo]

12. "It might make you feel good, but this is a very simplistic solution to a very complex problem."

But "wear sweaters in the winter", "turn off your lights when you're not using them", "reuse" and "eat less meat" is better?

You crack me up.

[William Z. Foster]

17. public policy

Serious social and political changes require public programs, public policies.

Advocating personal lifestyle changes works against building a strong movement that could force changes in the area of public programs, public policies and therefore effect social and political changes.

Saying that the working class people are a bunch of children who will not change, and that this is why social and political change cannot occur, is a very powerful defense of the people who control our lives, the wealthy and powerful few.

The working class people are already paying too high of a price, and it is not we who should be called upon to tighten our belts yet again. We are already suffering, and should not be forced to suffer more. Nor should people be scared away from advocating social change with these fear tactics of telling people what they will need to give up or what they will lose. The working class people have little power and no voice in the direction the country is going, and should not be blamed for it.