About Helen Thomas' Announced Retirement

[aquart]

My father became a raging racist the year before he died.

Small strokes wreaked havoc in his mind.

Of course Helen Thomas has Arab sympathies. She's Lebanese.

I am considered rabidly pro-Israel around here. And I have adored Helen Thomas for many years. I don't expect her to agree with me on this. We come from different perspectives.

But what she said makes me fear for her health. There have been many clashes between the Palestinians and Israelis. But only now does Helen say anything like this? Only now?

We have so much to be grateful to Helen Thomas for. Her outspoken courage has been a vital voice for the American people for decades.

THIS CHANGES NOTHING. Except for the terrible fact that Helen is no longer able to do the brilliant job she always has.

I still love her. I will miss her terribly. And if any hold this late-expressed opinion against her, you are the ones I will despise.

[David__77]

1. Thank you.

I would take the same position if she had made opposite statements, despite my general perspective that some would consider "pro-Arab."

[Cassandra]

2. I think the invasion of Lebanon by Israel...

must still be upsetting to her. If that contributed to her remarks, I can't say that I blame her.

[notadmblnd]

3. People make mistakes. She apologized for what she said

AFAIC, it's done and over with. I mean really, how many times have you heard national figures telling Mexicans to go home without suffering any consequences for their comments? In fact, that meme is pretty popular right now isn't it?

[Spoonman]

10. Being a "Mexican"......

I have no problem with anyone wanting/telling illegals to go home.

AFAIC, there should be no consequences for their comments!

[Lone_Star_Dem]

13. Yes, there are consequences

What really is happening is now they've generated a hatred against all Latinos. Most of the people screaming the loudest see all Latinos as encroaching on their territory. That includes the legal ones. I know a family of Latinos who can trace their roots to before Texas was a part of the US and they're facing bigoted, racial slurs and treatment. Even though their family has been here legally longer than those who are telling them to "go home." It's insanity at its finest.

It may just depend on where you live and what you're exposed to, but American citizens are reaping the consequences of the "illegal go home" meme.

[Spoonman]

15. Most of the people screaming the loudest

are Latinos (illegals and Latino profiteer groups)!!!!!!!!!

My Great, Great Grandmother was born in the area now known as Langtry Texas in 1827.

Every member of my family on my mothers side was born in Texas, including me.

Personally I have experienced nothing adverse.

I have been asked what my opinion was on the "new law", and my reply has been simple, IT NOT A NEW LAW!

[EFerrari]

35. It is a new law. It criminalizes what is only an administrative violation

under Federal law. And you bet your remote we Latinos are "screaming" because this law does nada to fix immigration AND it subjects all Latinos to unnecessary police contact, which is dangerous.

[Spoonman]

48. Too funny.....

this law does nada to fix immigration

You are absolutely correct, AND it was NEVER intended to!

States do not, and cannot, establish immigration policy or law.

The statute simply prohibits localities from adopting any policies that allow less than full enforcement of the FEDERAL immigration laws, thus prohibiting so-called sanctuary provisions.

This is no different than the federal laws that prevent states from adopting any policies or enacting any laws that allow environmental regulatory safe havens.

subjects all Latinos to unnecessary police contact

BULLSHIT!

Explain how it subjects ANY specific ethnic group to "unnecessary police contact".

The law states: "For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state....".

Your assertion has no basis in fact, and your emotional hyperbole does not substantiate your argument!

[EFerrari]

61. And wrong again. The law relies on enforcement on racial profiling

which is why LEOs in AZ hate it. So don't even try to skate on that one.

It does not "mirror" federal law, although the wingnuttery has been claiming that for weeks to hide their utter mendacity.

And good luck trying to smear me as "emotional". That ploy was pretty much demolished somewhere in the early 70s.

lol

[EFerrari]

34. Except it doesn't stop there. The language and the conversation

slides, more often than not, into something else -- just like your comments just did (i.e., Mexicnns are not equal to "illegals").

[Spoonman]

50. My comments were stable

and not "sliding" anywhere!

[breadandwine]

40. Her apology was weak and perfunctory. She didn't even know what she was apologizing for.

Ever since Obama became president Thomas has had it in for Israel as a state. Her first question to President Obama in his very first White House press conference was to demand why we don't ask why a terrorist attempted an attack. As if, if we only understood his deep, inner, outer, upper, under FEELINGS... As if he must have been motivated by some pure resentment against the United States.

Let me remind some that Iranian religious fanatics have ranted and raved against America because we don't have separate male and female seating on American buses.

So much for trying to understand religious fanatic terrorists.

Thomas defended terrorists in the last couple of years, called them "so called terrorists" which is pretty bloodthirsty in my opinion.

The second, unrelated part of her first question to Obama at his first White House press conference ever was to demand that he tell everyone which is the one country in the Middle East with nuclear weapons. As if that gave a lunatic undemocratic Islamo-fascist regime in Iran some sort of right to get the bomb while threatening constantly to destroy Israel and while Ahmadinejad, in an interview with Ann Curry, refused to rule out turning his "peaceful" nuclear program into an atom bomb. She asked him about 5 times and he refused to rule it out over and over. But to Thomas Iran has a right to get the bomb because the Jews need to "get out" and go back to Germany and Poland where they slaughtered the Jews.

Fact: Jews have lived in Israel for thousands of years, way back when the ancestors of today's Moslems were drinking wine and worshipping many gods. Jews have as much right to be in the Middle East as anybody else and even Faisal of Mecca invited Jews to return seeing both Jews and Arabs of the region as indigenous people up against the Turkish empire.

This thread could be classified as belonging to the "Israel Palestine" Forum. But I hope not. What of all the other threads in GD that were already started on Thomas? Did Thomas say "Get the hell out of Peoria"? She said "get the hell out of Palestine." I think this thread has as much right to be in GD as any other on Thomas and I hope comments critical of Thomas are allowed.

I too am sad about Thomas because she ruined a progressive career and shamed the progressive movement needlessly with her hateful diatribe, and telling Jews to go back to the Auschwitz continent, back to Germany, back to Poland, was bigoted and shameful. It wasn't the first time she was talking that way. She was talking that way for months. And the numbers of people, including otherwise admiring colleagues and many others who were shocked was merely the last straw. The video of her telling Jews to get out and go back to Germany of all places had one and a third million hits.

In Nazi Germany the Nazis told the Jews, "Juden raus!" - "Jews out!"

It is truly tragic that Thomas could be so hostile to a people - an entire people - as to call for their ethnic cleansing. She didn't say Jews should just get out of certain areas of Israel. The whole land of Israel was called Palestine, renamed actually by the Roman conquerors who changed the name from israel to Palestine meaning land of the Philistines. Jews have been there for thousands of years. Maybe I wasn't supposed to say those "verboten" words.

At any rate, Thomas did everyone, herself, progressives, many causes, a disservice by spouting off anti-Semitism.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

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[CTLawGuy]

45. who has said that

Hispanics, whether legal or not, should all leave the country and go back to Mexico?

[notadmblnd]

71. I've heard many individuals say it. some family members. Arizona

is putting it in practice currently, and has passed laws designed to get rid of them. Can't get any more blatant than that. I've even heard suggestions in MSM that the children of illegal aliens should be stripped of their citizenship and deported along with their parents.

here's a google page for you to peruse.

http://www.google.com/search?q=children+of+illegal+imigrants+should+be+stripped+of+citizenship+and+deported&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[JoDog]

4. Thanks for saying what I feel

As a journalism student and night editor, I have always admired Helen Thomas.

These sudden and disturbing comments made me wonder about her health, too. I am pro Israel as well, and I was left scratching my head. She has always been such a strong voice of sense on the public scene. Even if this is how she honestly feels about Israel, it seems strange that she would suddenly start expressing it in such harsh terms.

Hopefully, she will be able to devote her time to maintaining her health and enjoy life for as long as possible.

I will miss her words too. She is a lioness among kittens, and it's sad her career will end on this note.

[aquart]

5. "A lioness among kittens." True.

[Subdivisions]

6. I'd like you to respond to the post I made in response to your accusation. n/t

[Subdivisions]

14. Kick. n/t

[bobbolink]

7. Very,very well said. I wish that all DU was as reasonable as this post.

:applause:

[Spoonman]

8. Then again

it might NOT be her health that "made" her utter that remark.

It could be that she has kept her "racist" ideologies well masked all these years to further her career.

I DO NOT know, I'm simply thinking about all possibilities.

[Tarheel_Dem]

11. +1

[Catherina]

9. Rec'd

I'm sorry about your father.

[aquart]

12. Thank you.

His last year was a horror. But it isn't what matters in my memory. Nor will it with Helen.

[Raven]

16. You have raised a very good point. Helen is 89 years old. It is

amazing that she is still working in a very demanding field. My mother had a series of small strokes in her later years and the filter came off her mouth. She would say outrageous things to people, often hurtful things. She had lost her editing function. I think Helen may have lost hers and I am sorry that she is retiring, after so many years and contributions, under these circumstances.

[aquart]

17. Exactly.

And I hate for her to have that feeling of losing control.

I am horrified by some of the vicious comments I've seen.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[hlthe2b]

19. Your maturity and understanding on this issue is appreciated

and I could not agree more. She may well be experiencing TIAs (transient ischemic attacks, or "mini strokes"), but she is still sharp. I hope she can continue to write and do things that use her mind and vast knowledge/experience. I wish her only the best.

[aquart]

22. Me, too.

She's earned it.

[goclark]

25. I agree ~ as a Senior and a fan, I hope she

will use her many talents to write and stay involved.

She certainly deserves to Retire after all those years of great service.

[ecstatic]

20. I still haven't forgiven "Kramer" for his "comedy" performance

I have a no-second chances policy when it comes to racist remarks. BTW, I don't agree with the U.S. policy on Israel which essentially seems to be "pay them billions and anything goes." Yet, I would never think to tell Jewish people to go back to Germany--a country that oversaw millions of their deaths.

[aquart]

23. "Kramer" wasn't 89. Nor you, I suspect.

[LanternWaste]

26. And Bill Frist was also prolific at long-distance diagnoses...

And Bill Frist was also prolific at long-distance diagnoses... but that doesn't apply in your case.

But, I imagine at one time or another we all justify what we justify and turn an eye to things that are discomforting to us.

[KharmaTrain]

21. Well Said...

As usual when a frenzy goes on around here its based on emotions...and with it issues are framed in "either/or" and people are labeled all good or all bad. Nuance and context lose value as some attempt to justify one action with another.

I condemn the anti-semetic nature of Ms. Thomas' remarks and find them very regrettable. Yes, older people can and do say things that can expose hidden feelings. It's not as though her remarks were part of a column she wrote or a question at a press conference, but taken off the cuff (and until I hear otherwise, it wasn't a "gotcha" or "doctored" video) and she became yet another victim of the "Youtube" age. Still, it's been said and those words do have consequences.

While I deplore what she said just as much as if it had been said to send blacks back to Africa or Mexicans back to Mexico...it was totally insensetive statement. But this doesn't discount all the good things she's written or stood for. I will always admire her for standing up to the previous regime and find it reprehensible that the corporate media turned to a war criminal like Ari Fleisher or Likudnik like Lannie Davis to be the "spokespeople" of American Jews. Again, nuance.

This is all I have to say on the matter...

[EFerrari]

24. I knew I had to watch my mother a little more carefully when she didn't get over the primaries,

seriously, and started siding with anyone who criticized the president. It was so unlike her, she's always been a good and generous competitor. The things she said didn't reflect her mind as I'd ever known it. And she's ten years younger than Helen Thomas.

[aquart]

27. I hope your mom is otherwise okay.

My father was saying bizarre, awful things, sometimes to people's faces. And you have to understand what a courtly, well-mannered, gracious man he had always been to everyone. Pure charm. I had never in my life heard him express hatred or dislike of anyone, let alone call them names. (Although he had a moment when he almost said something bad about my mother during the divorce.)

After a lifetime of negotiating her way through the very tricky halls of power, suddenly Helen is talking this way? It's not like it's the first time Israel has pissed people off. It shocks me that people are defending the words without examining the history of the speaker. It shocks me that people are condemning the words without examining the history of the speaker. Surely she has earned that much from us.

[EFerrari]

31. Agreed. n/t

[mopinko]

28. oh dear.

:hug:

[EFerrari]

30. The day she said Liz Cheney seemed like a nice young woman

I could feel my hair turn gray!

Well, it seems to be happening very slowly. But, it does happen.

[mopinko]

32. oh, dear, oh, dear!!!!

[Sensitivity]

29. SAD. Helen speak her mind -- badly -- and is considered MENTALLY ILL

No one wants to look at any merit in what she said or the motivation behind it.
They just want to put her away. THAT IS REAL DISRESPECT.

I personally disagree with Helen.
BUT THAT WE DARE NOT DISCUSS THE FACTS THAT UNDERLIE HER STATEMENTS IS THE REAL TRAGEDY.

[EFerrari]

33. We've been discussing them for days now.

But aquart is right. There's more than one thing going on here in all likelihood. That doesn't make Helen mentally ill. That makes her 89.

[aquart]

36. No. The tragedy is refusing to examine how aberrant the statement was for HER.

Helen was neither simplistic nor ignorant of 20th century history. She's 89. She lived through most of it. She walked the halls of political and journalistic power AS A WOMAN with spectacular survival skills. Which means knowing what to say when.

SUDDENLY for the first time in her career she says something outrageous and even erroneous (because she knows there's no way back to Europe for the Israelis)and we are supposed to take the remarks as her learned opinion instead of worrying about her health?

Well, I'm sure that suits many agendas here but abrupt behavior changes at any age should be examined for physical causes FIRST.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Actually, I'm glad she came out and admitted what this is really about for many folks.

A desire for Israel to go away. Not make peace, not work towards a "two state" solution, just GO AWAY.

What's truly irritating is the elaborate, two-faced dance that the anti-Israel crowd has to engage in, regularly, to continue the facade of playing the 'reasonable, peace-seeking victim'- it's the same nonsense that allows people to continually claim that Israel immediately began attacking Palestinians the minute the UN Declaration of Statehood came down the pike, for no apparent reason- the same historical ridiculousness that allows people to claim (and I've seen this here) that the 1967 war was an 'unprovoked war of aggression' on the part of Israel. The Israeli air force just got a bug up their ass, apparently, one morning. :shrug:

The Occupation of the Territories, The Blockade of Gaza, all of it- most of which I disagree with and think is a tremendously bad idea- NONE of it has occurred in a vacuum. People conveniently forget that Israel PULLED OUT of Gaza, entirely- and were rewarded, for this positive step, with unceasing rocket attacks against their people- something NO nation would tolerate for long. Israel PULLED OUT of Lebanon, and were rewarded, for this positive step, with having soldiers kidnapped and being otherwise attacked from the North.

Meanwhile, anyone claiming that Israel might have legitimate security concerns -say, about stuff being brought into Gaza- is 'paranoid' or 'racist'-- hell, I appreciate Helen Thomas (in, what is called downthread, a 'failure of self-censorship' --EXACTLY.) for coming out and calling it like many really do see it- they DON'T see Israel as having a legitimate right to exist, they DON'T think Israel has a right to defend itself, they want the Jews to go away- back to Europe, To America, to the Rift Valley, fuck, just somewhere.

But you know what? I absolutely think people who feel this way should lay their cards on the table. We "dare not discuss it"? The worst thing is that lots of people who feel this way spend all sorts of time pretending that they're just looking for a way for a Palestinian State and the State of Israel to live peacefully next to each other.

It explains a lot, actually, like why Israel is supposed to sit around and do nothing while Rockets rain in from Gaza, or why Israel is supposed to do nothing to stop suicide attacks in Tel Aviv. Because Israel shouldn't be there in the first place, silly!

So let's be honest, then, that that's the agenda, and let's acknowledge that that is what the Israelis are dealing with. Don't try to pretend that this is just about parties who are all interested in a viable long-term peace with two states living side by side. (And certainly, there are people in Likud who feel the same way) What many people want is to play the victim; while simultaneously advancing an agenda that is really about ending the State of Israel for good.

[breadandwine]

41. Warren DeMontague, Martin Luther King said it well:

"When people attack Zionists, they are talking about Jews."


----Martin Luther King.

[Raineyb]

49. With all due respect he was wrong on that. n/t

[aquart]

53. No, but I'm sure it's a great comfort to think so.

But only you and your self-congratulating friends are fooled.

[Raineyb]

66. King died in 68. I don't think King would be at all supportive of the notion that

attacking Zionism was attacking all Jews in light of what has happened since then. You think King would be in favor of a country that oppresses people the way Israel has been doing?

You people will twist King to serve any damn purpose. Yet for all your quotes you're not at all interested in what the hell he actually stood for. And I seriously doubt he would unquestioningly support an apartheid state.

[Warren DeMontague]

75. "You people"

Which people is that?

[Raineyb]

76. People who sully King's name by using him to back up your racist argument.

Disgusting.

[Warren DeMontague]

77. Something here is disgusting

that's for sure.

[Raineyb]

79. Yes something here is disgusting.

And there's a whole lot of it going along. Fucking hypocrites all of you.

[Warren DeMontague]

80. *

[Raineyb]

69. King would not support an apartheid government. Sorry but you're only

fooling yourself.

Actually I take that back. I'm not the one who is sorry here.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

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[U4ikLefty]

58. That is fucking ridiculous!!!

So if you disagree with something MLK said you are scum?

Take the melodrama & shove it!!!

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[Ms. Toad]

47. The lack of a brake between brain and mouth,

and lack of self-awareness that what she said was offensive, hits too close to home for me not to wonder if dementia is involved.

[pipoman]

70. People who are her age

loose some mobility, reflexive control and also some brain activity...natural aging process, no dementia involved. There are deniers of this simply demonstrable truth who will be right along to call us both ageists..

[chill_wind]

37. Thank you Aquart. May the rigid, rabid Helen haters

never experience or witness the same conceivable heartache and mystifying cognition changes of near 90 year old parent.

[HEyHEY]

38. Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's lost the ability to self-censor

Not only that, had she been more eloquent I doubt this would have gone over the way it did. For instance, had she said, "I think Israel should re-evaluate its presence in Gaza." And "Well, many people living there have European heritage and clearly this issue will not die" it may have gone over better for her.

I can't wait til I'm her age, then you're all gonna know just what my later-years brain thinks of you!

[aquart]

42. Two unrecs. How.......cheesy.

[breadandwine]

43. Oh that reminds me. I forgot to rec this. There. Now there are +2 recs.

Unreccing is a form of censorship. The thought police. You are telling people "Don't read this." What are you afraid of? Can't you let people make up their own mind?

IT IS ONLY THE TRUTH THAT HURTS.


You are trying to

SHUT
US
UP.

[jazzelle]

44. well said

a sad end

[Ms. Toad]

46. My first thought was to wonder how long before it is announced

that she has Alzheimer's disease (or some other form of dementia).

[SoCalDem]

52. possible, but once she said what she said, there was no way to retract it

and she's been so outspoken on so many issues for decades, there was no way she could "save herself".

[breadandwine]

55. SoCalDem, with respect to your link's phrasing, Thomas didn't say "politically incorrect" things.

She said bigoted, racist, anti-Semitic things about ethnically cleansing 6 million Israeli Jews and sending them back to Germany.

Sugar coating this is like saying that when Hitler said "Juden raus!" - "Jews out!" -- that that was an "oversight" on his part.

[EFerrari]

56. Well, no she didn't. While her statement upset a lot of people

you are completely over the top comparing Helen to HITLER.

As Thom Hartmann said this morning, there are people that believe that establishment of Israel was a mistake and Helen seems to be one of those people.

[breadandwine]

59. Thom Hartmann also thought Dachau was only a “labor camp.”

And he thought Mengele was at Dachau, not Auschwitz.

Hartmann is as ill informed about Jewish history as you are.

See Hartmann screw up the facts on the Holocaust here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x433629#434992

And read the posts there that correct him.

Fact:

Helen Thomas told all the Jews in Israel, that's 6 million, to "Get the hell out" and "go back to Germany and Poland."

A funny thing happened to the Jews in Poland and Germany on the way to the gas chambers......

Sorry you didn't get the memo.

Evidently you haven't been keeping up with current events.

6 million of them.


Hitler:

"Juden raus!" - "Jews out!"

Helen Thomas:

Jews "Get the hell out!"

[EFerrari]

60. Thank you for the illustration. Completely over the top. n/t

[jacksprat]

57. You support the illegal siege of Gaza?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ampad]

62. I understand what you are saying

However, I think it is unfair to Helen to chalk her words up to aging. I have no idea about her health. I think it is safe to say that there could be something going on with her health because of her age, but we have no concrete proof. I do not condone what Helen said.

I find it pretty odd that the person that recorded the comments is just now releasing her comments. Here we are in the second week of June and these comments were made in May. If he/she thought they were so offensive why sit on them? Remember Obama's bitter comment? I think Helen's comments were released now to drum up sympathy for Israel after Israel killed innocent people in cold blood. It just goes to show that we can be easily manipulated. Do not get me wrong. I do not condone the words that came out of Helen's mouth. I think it is pretty nasty to suggest that people go back to the countries that gassed and tortured their ancestors. I think she was right to apologize. I do think that the releasing of the comments was done with a purpose. Hence most of us talking about Helen's comments while Israel continues to not allow supplies to go to the Palestinians. Oh and gleeful killing of innocent people who just want to help out the oppressed. The person that recorded those comments ,and is just now releasing them, is pretty clever. Kill two birds with one stone. Take out a reporter that has no fear of asking hard questions about Israel and at the same time drum up sympathy. Check mate.

I wish Helen the best of luck. I hope she enjoys her retirement. It sucks to see her career end on such a sour note.

[breadandwine]

64. No. Israel let the supplies go to Gaza after SEIZING THE WEAPONS ON BOARD.

Now Hamas refuses to pick up the supplies because all they want is the "right" to ship weapons with no inspections.

The other ships in the flotilla did not suffer the same fate because they did not resist Israeli inspection and prior warning. The IHH terrorists on board the one ship dragged Jews below deck to be kidnapped, shot Jews and attacked them with knives and iron bars.

And how does any of this, flotilla or not, give Helen Thomas the moral right to tell Jews to "Get the hell out" of their homeland and go back to Germany? That's ethnic cleansing.

[breadandwine]

65. I see the de-reccers are out in force. There used to be 5 recs on this. Still, though, there are 3.

Always amazes me that some people feel the need to tell others to shut up. Dis-reccing has the effect of censoring recs.

[pipoman]

68. I was accused of being "ageist" yesterday

for saying about this same thing....of course you have said it more eloquently than I..

[Bonobo]

73. K&R

[earth mom]

74. Sorry but I don't think Helen Thomas is losing her mind. I think she is sick & tired of seeing

all the hatred and all the killing for religious reasons.

Frankly, I can't believe those who excuse what Israel has done to the Palestinians.

Killing and oppression of other cultures/religions is wrong and should always be condemned.

And that's all Helen was trying to say.

[aquart]

82. To a Jew?

She said it to a Jew. The woman who has survived the long knives of the halls of power blows everything on a remark a Jew was guaranteed to loathe?

You've just insulted Helen Thomas. It isn't that she had that opinion. It's how and when she said it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. That ran in my mind too

And also the older people become the less agile the brain becomes. That is a fact.

She's done great work. Why all I have to say about this is... enjoy retirement Helen, you deserve it.

[avaistheone1]

81. I adore Helen

and I think that she was right.

[aquart]

83. Yes, ending your career by insulting a Jew to his face is always right.

Unbelievable, the pretzel twists from ...people who believe Israel has no right to exist.

So you favor mass murder as long as Arabs are doing it. Or Europeans. Only Jews should be slaughtered without defense.

Not a chance in the world you've been brainwashed, nuh uh.