Progressive talk radio: third time's the charm?

[anthroguy101]

I know that some of us here are sad at the second loss of Air America, but in truth I feel that they were a failure from the start. There were many major flaws and lots of bad planning from beginning to end. All they were doing was blowing raspberries at the right without making arguments for themselves. In addition, they let themselves be controlled by Clear Channel (gee, I wonder how that would go over) and other outside influences.

Their effort was not unified, and neither was their programming. There was plenty of "let the local stations--" which lead to deviations from station to station. They got a bunch of celebrities (most of which you could already watch on TV) while shutting out average Americans. They also did not have any noteworthy promotions, nor did they encourage growth and expansion of their network. In short, Air America was fail.

What progressives need to do is form their own independent network with their own hosts, none of which are the slightest bit familiar. We need people more interested in sharing their perspective more often than blasting those of others. There should be people capable of making constructive criticism of their opponents, rather than those who want to fan the flames. There needs to be a diversity of people, and it needs to be inclusive when it comes to race and religion. We need to try and view things from the other side so that we understand how we can share our views with right-wingers. Most importantly, we need people that will take this seriously and without the influence of Clear Channel. Otherwise, it will be Air America all over again.

(I also made this thread so people could share their own ideas)

[wingnut40]

1. we need to get someone who has the business experience to run it the right way.

[marmar]

7. Perhaps it would be better off run as a co-op than a business.

nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Its still a business, co-op or otherwise and Air America failed for business reasons

Its not clear the economics are there to make it viable at anything more than a local level. Would like it to be otherwise. The success of Rachel and others mean that they are already on contract and not available to be the backbone of a new progressive national network

[anthroguy101]

23. How so, and what's a co-op?

[Greyhound]

37. Running AAR the "right wat" is what killed it.

Since we don't have any billionaires willing to sink a few hundred million bucks into promoting the message, I think the only way it will succeed is from the bottom up.

We're everywhere. Even here in Phoenix there is an audience for a liberal station (1480, the remnants of NovaM) and they work liberal businesses and promotes new, local (and cheap) talent.

AAR was purposely destroyed by business insiders, the very people hired to run it.

[msongs]

2. who will listen now that conervadems and republicans are running the country? AA was on a

local station that went off the air at sunset lol.

Msongs

[anthroguy101]

5. I was thinking more along the lines of...

Trying to persuade the right wingers as opposed to attacking them. The latter never does any good.

[Donnachaidh]

3. I thank Air America every single day for Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz

Yeah, there were lots of screwups - but these two are gems that fell from the fire and stuck. And Ring of fire was exceptional too.

We need a progressive voice, yes, but we've gone the route of *discussion* only to be drowned out by the right. We don't need 24 hours of shouting, but we DO need progressive voices who aren't afraid to get into a dustup now and again. Someone who is willing to get into an intellectual *beatdown* on the echo chamber of the right -- and does it well.

[anthroguy101]

6. I do agree that they were both good hosts...

...but these two did nothing to save the network. There needs to be some stability, and we need material that Joe Everyman will want to listen and be attracted to. It needs to be trendy and cool.

[Donnachaidh]

13. what COULD they have done to *save* the network?

Serious question -- what do you think THEY could have done personally to save the station? And no offense, but spare us the *trendy and cool* -- THAT is what Air America was trying to do when it FAILED.

[GoCubsGo]

21. They could have been owned and managed by competent people

The original ownership of AAR were a bunch of incompetents, some of which were crooks on top of it. See the HBO-produced "Left of the Dial." The folks who bought them out were no better.

[anthroguy101]

22. Then what should we do?

We can't change the fact that Air America is no longer around. I really do wish that AAR was still on, and I do think the shows were exponentially better than Rush and Beck, but the fact remains that the network no longer exists. We should try to learn from their mistakes. What should we do? What are your ideas? That's what I made this thread for.

[mucifer]

16. Ed was never on Air America. He was on the same stations. But, a different syndication company

[Donnachaidh]

20. I was able to listen to him on the Air America website.

So I assumed he was on it. I'm not a radio honcho, so I don't know the ins and outs. But my first introduction to him was via Air America. :shrug:

[GreenStormCloud]

4. Definately, we need to sell ourselves, not run down the other side.

It works in sales. It has been demonstrated many times that the best selling method is to promote yourself, not sling mud at the other guy. It can be frustrating, and the temptation to retaliate can be strong, but selling yourself works. And we need to be entertaining as well. Few to listen to pendantic sermons. The public wants to be entertained as well.

[rurallib]

8. Folks, listen up! LPFM is coming and YOU can be the change!

Low Power FM will be voted on by the Senate soon, I hope.
You and some friends can get in on it.
Go here http://prometheusradio.org/take_action and click on the Station Support button.
Then click on the => start a radio station button
then => FCC licensing and read up on it
then => startup costs and read it. looks like a group could start up for $10,000 or so.

If still interested contact Prometheus. They are extremely excited to help. Especially progressives.

[anthroguy101]

10. Wow, actually beat me to that one before I could reat it...

Thanks for the information. We might be able to consider that in the future.

[rurallib]

25. don't wait too long. I expect the Senate to act yet this year

One of the catches is that the non-profit organization that applies for the license must have been in existence for 2 years
That means that you can't just form a group to get a license.
So you need to act now to get interested people together to either form a group or find a group that you could use as a vehicle!
We have no way of knowing how quickly the FCC will act after the bill is passed. Licenses may be given next year at this time.

If you want PM me and we can get together on the phone.

[anthroguy101]

28. Another major catch:

I'm only 17

That's something a little out of my reach at the moment. I'm still trying to finish high school and college. I have high goals, but this isn't something I am capable of pursuing RIGHT NOW. I'm not even sure if it's legal for someone of my age.

[rurallib]

42. Tell some friends.

[Hempathy]

30. What is the effective range of low power FM signals...?

Yes, radio is definitely the wave of the future in communications and entertainment. :sarcasm:

[rurallib]

43. I understand the sarcasm but it can still be an effective tool.

[anthroguy101]

9. Another VERY good idea...

Why don't we try using FM instead of (or perhaps alongside of) AM? More potential listeners and less irritation of tuning in and interference.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Radio Has Become A Toxic Dead Zone...

While I still can enjoy Progressive Talk on my radio 24 hours a day now, but that's due to an owner who has been willing to lose a lot of money to keep the station going.

A couple of problems facing Progressive Talk is the sad state of radio today...poorly run and bankrupt. "Deregulation" put the medium in the control of a handful of corporates who have treated radio like their private plantation and destroyed it. Experienced and talented people have been chased away as has anyone who cares to make a decent living. It's lost virtually anyone under the age of 30 and sadly things aren't going to get better any time soon.

AAR and other Progressive talk suffer from the corporate chokehold of the public airwaves. Since the "power that be" that own your radio dial don't think they can make money with Progressive Talk it's been relegated to poor signals that only prove their point. Unlike dittoheads and wingnuts who do still listen, Progressives haven't supported their radio networks and programs. It's not just advertising, it's overall numbers. It's a catch 22 that isn't going to change any time soon.

The good news is radio stations have become cheap...the collapse of its own real estate boom have reduced prices. The bad news is the companies that ruined the industry stand poised to get an even further monopoly.

[anthroguy101]

14. If the programming is interesting and people want to tune in again and again

then that wouldn't be so much of an issue. This is why we need to challenge the big guys instead of joining them. The very reason Air America failed was Clear Channel.

[KharmaTrain]

24. Chicken And Egg

Sadly Progressive talk's track record is so poor that the "powers that be" don't think there are people who will be tuning in and since they control the best frequencies, it's their "wisdom" is all that matters. Again, radio is a plantation and listeners no longer matter.

You are right, Clear Channel was a major problem...but at least Cheap Channel gave it a try. They still operate several Progressive talk stations (LA, Portland) but it failed on stations in other markets. Right now they want a sure thing...formats that are cheap to operate...primarily automated "cookie cutter" formats. The other major corporates like Citadel and Cumulus are very right wing companies...never have owned Progressive stations and never will.

Unfortunately Programming is just window dressing for these companies...they make their money through the manipulation of their stock prices and now playing bankruptcy games.

I've been in and around the radio world for the better part of 40 years...it's a shame to see something I once loved turn into such a cesspool.

[hobbit709]

12. Talk radio of any kind turns me off.

If I'm driving, I want to hear music.
I don't even care for the morning DJ yatter shows.

[anthroguy101]

17. Well, music could be a PART of the show...

That way we could attract a younger, more vibrant audience. That way more people would want to tune in and would see a benefit in doing so. Music could include selections from Rise Against, Rage Against the Machine, Anti-Flag, B.o.B. and other progressive bands.

[EFerrari]

15. Free Speech TV has Thom, Amy and Laura on every weekday

plus other niche shows like GayUSA.

www.freespeech.org

[anthroguy101]

18. Can you listen to this in the morning while you're commuting?

Furthermore, is the programming widely available and is it attractive to listeners? Do most people actually want to listen to FSTV? Have they even heard of it? That's why I think we need something a bit more bold. Though a new progressive radio network can and should take advantage of the Internet and social media networks.

[EFerrari]

33. Free Speech TV is on DishNet and soon, on DirecTv.

Thom and Amy are on radio all over the place. I think Laura is, too.

The networks they are developing are not dependent on corporate money and imho, the way of the future. It's labor intensive right now as they depend on member donations. But, that also means the programming is so much better than the usual corporate crap.

[Oedipus W. Bush]

26. Unlike most conservatives, liberals have no psychological need to listen to listen to talk radio.

Most conservatives have a strong psychological need to have their beliefs validated. This is because many of them have some amount of cognitive dissonance concerning their beliefs in that they either know or strongly suspect that such beliefs are morally wrong. The reinforcement of their beliefs from conservative talk radio and Fox News resolves, or at least eases, that cognitive dissonance and validates the morally wrong belief.

Liberals do not suffer from such cognitive dissonance and thus do not have a need to have their beliefs validated. As a result liberal talk radio fills such a narrow niche market that it can not be commercially viable.

[anthroguy101]

31. That's actually a very good observation. Didn't think of that.

So THAT'S how they get high ratings.

[chillspike]

38. That and

...Liberals are less as entertained by WWE type radio talk than conservatives are. You don't hear anyone calling anyone else a "jerk" on npr...This crap started with right wing trash talk radio. It gets ratings because it entertains the typical neanderthals who like any kind of fight or confrontation...I guarantee you the more Left wing radio and cable news provide the juvenile trash talk just as RW radio does, the better the ratings will be. That's because, for the people that tune in, it's never really been about politics but being entertained.

[backscatter712]

40. True. Progressives have moved on to newer media, like the Internet.

Building the netroots and flexing our muscles that way suits us better.

[JonLP24]

41. You said it better than I could as well

That's my theory as well and a reason why I believe Fox (I think) regularly beats CNN or MSNBC in ratings.

[Codeine]

27. Radio. Pfft.

We might as well promote Progressive Vaudeville. The only people who care about talk radio are already listening to it, in the form of the righties. Progressives are no more interested in talk radio than they are in trading gramophone recordings of liberal icons.

[anthroguy101]

29. What about Independents?

Kind of a big slice of people that might want to listen.

[Codeine]

35. They didn't listen to either incarnation of Air America.

Seriously, most people just don't give two shits about talk radio outside of morning zoo shows. Old-fashioned folk who do still listen are interested in the Limbaughs and Becks of the airwaves.

Media companies aren't stupid -- if a market for national progressive talk existed, the network would be there. Worrying that there isn't one is like worrying about eight-track tapes; that shit's dead.

[anthroguy101]

32. Well, what we could do is...

Start on the Internet and use the funds gained from there to eventually expand to the airwaves.

[KharmaTrain]

34. There's Already Lots of Progressive Talk On The Internet

I listen to Jeff Farias from Phoenix and several other internet broadcasts and stations...they're already out there, problem is they don't have the money to market and promote. There's little to no money to be made off the internet at this time and those who are doing it are doing so at their own expenses.

Why start when it's already here and despereately needs support. With the rise of wireless internet radios the need for a "traditional" station will be moot in a few years.

[ralps]

36. We have a Progressive Talk Radio Network! HeadOnRadioNetwork!

http://headonradionetwork.com/

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[Raineyb]

39. It couldn't hurt for this network to own a radio station or two.

Part of AAR's problem was that they'd constantly lose radio stations despite how many listeners they had because the station would be sold to some right wing fucktard who would turn it into an all sports station or a Christian network. Of course as the right wing syndicators also own stations (multiple stations in a single market at that where they can play their syndicated shows on "competing" stations) it would be hard to compete numbers wise but at least it would reduce the instances of stations being sold out from underneath them.

[tavalon]

44. I was listening when Air America first hit the airwaves

I especially remember one of the personalities who was on during my half hour commute home from work. I loved her. She had such a crisp voice and she was funny, yet insightful. She really made my drive home much more bearable. You might expect that I would say I miss her, but I don't, because now she has a show on MSNBC. You might have heard of her. Rachel Maddox.

[KonaKane]

45. Radio just isn't "our" thing.

I've come to that sad conclusion. I worked in radio for about 15 years and saw all too well how it's "done", what the most lucrative demo is and how none of those things jive with Democratic/Progressive views and activities. The reason rightwing radio does so well is because it generally plays to the AM pissed-off "disenfranchised" white male crowd, the ones who like to shop at in the tool section on Saturdays at Sears and on the way they can get angry at Democrats and liberals and all that. The format plays to their fears, predelictions and prejudices.

Liberals for the most part do not fall into that group. They are more diverse in their activities, more questioning of information and its quality, more prone to go to museums, lectures, art exhibits and concerts than mainline some stupid radio show.

I'm sorry, but the best we can hope for is some fairly modest radio presence. We will never be as big in the USA as the hate-radio group. And that is a compliment to us. We should spend our energies more on the internet and TV.

[longship]

46. Don't forget Senator Al Franken!!!

Does he get to the well of the Senate without AAR?
Maybe yes, but I don't think I would want a replay of that race w/o AAR.