Just watched a documentary about military protests during Vietnam

[Junkie Brewster]

It was called "Sir! No Sir!" I'd had no idea there was so much anti-war energy in the active military during the war. A lot of our soldiers really stood up against the war! They even had anti-war newsletters in places like Fort Gordon (August GA), Fort Jackson (Columbia, SC) and Fort Knox (Louisville, KY), places it's hard to imagine any anti-Iraq war action today.

http://www.sirnosir.com/">Sir! No Sir!

[CountAllVotes]

1. that is because ...

many of these men were DRAFTED and it was indeed SIR NO SIR!!!

:kick:

[HelenWheels]

4. We do have a draft now

It's called the Poverty Draft, the I Can't Get A Job Draft and the I Can't Afford An Education Draft.

[socialist_n_TN]

7. Yep. And that very reason was the MOST

sensible argument AGAINST ending the draft back in the day. Some argued (presciently in fact) that an all volunteer force would allow these types of military "adventures" like Vietnam (and Iraq) to be EASIER to get into and harder to get out of. I am STILL NOT in favor of a draft, but this is the most compelling FOR a draft.

[Chulanowa]

9. I can see that argument

The main flaw is that even if the soldiers are resisting, the war goes on. The draft goes on. So rather than the democratization of war (what an odd phrase that is!) it ends up being slavery.

[tblue37]

14. One advantage of being drafted during the Vietnam War is that as

bad as it was, once a soldier had done his year in Nam, he was able to come home for good. Our troops now just keep getting sent back into battle until they finally get killed. It's like Russian Roulette, only all of the chambers seem to hold bullets. Also, it doesn't matter whether they have done their enlistment time, because of IRR they are still available for call-up for years beyond their orignal time (8 years total, for a four-year enlistment!). And now even middle-aged guys (50s, 60s) who have been retired from a career in the service for a few years get called up and sent into the war.

With the all-volunteer force, it's harder to get people to volunteer for an insane, purposeless, never-ending war, so they have to squeeze all the juice they can out of the ones they have.

"We have always been at war with Eastasia."

[hlthe2b]

11. Sorry for the embedded off topic, but given your signline....

Do you think Jerry Brown has a good chance in California for Gov? I sure hope so, but given the immense $$ on the RETHUG side.....

[unhappycamper]

2. Want to read a bit more about the soldier resistance movement?

It's a pretty good read.

[Junkie Brewster]

3. Looks interesting, and it's got an intro by Howard Zinn

Heading to Amazon now. Thanks!

[MisterP]

5. also H. Bruce Franklin's "Back Where You Came From"

half.com

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. An absolutely wonderful movie!

And very realistic. I remember those days well and this film did a good job of capturing what was happening.

[nichomachus]

8. Another fantastic movie

Now showing in some places is "The Most Dangerous Man in America."

It's about Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers. I saw it recently -- Ellsberg was there to answer questions -- and it was one of the most powerful films I've ever seen -- about how the government had been lying to the American people through five presidencies.

In one incredible scene, SecState Robert McNamara was shown on a plane, agreeing with advisers that the war was lost and that our recent buildup had had no effect. Then, he is shown stepping off the plane and saying the exact opposite -- very emphatically -- to the media.

See this movie if at all possible.

Showing schedule

http://firstrunfeatures.com/mostdangerousman_playdates.html

[hlthe2b]

10. A very diffierent time, given the draft...

Hell, a friend of mine operated a base-run coffee house in CO Springs, complete with poetry readings (a la the beatnik time). Can you imagine that at Fort Carson, now?

[sarge43]

12. There were several underground and off the map anti-war newsletters

in Germany late 60's/early 70's.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. I protested by refusing to extend my enlistment and go to Vietnam.

I was still young, 21, and they asked me to extend my enlistment for 14 months. The gunny sergeant trying to sell me the idea didn't mention Vietnam, or tried not to, but I told him what he and LBJ could do with their miserable war. I got 30 days of mess duty for my remarks.

It was April or May of 1965.

[upi402]

15. The draft put unwilling skin in the game

If the Republicans' kids were in the shit it would have lasted a minute or two. But Bush was in the Texas Air National Guard and had to go AWOL from that plum post. He wasn't alone.

If there was an opposition party, there might be laws made to put lawmakers' kids in any war they start. Kucinich's Department of Peace was the only hope for the war racket to end.

[Scuba]

16. +1,000

[AnArmyVeteran]

17. FTA was used all the time in the military then, or FUCK THE ARMY...

The only good thing about the draft is it forces even some rich kids to serve their country. But even then they can manage to use influence to avoid serving or hiding in a safe guard unit like Bush did. NO ONE could get into the guard back then without connections. Who died in Vietnam for all of those soulless chickenhawks could live and spread their evil throughout our country?

[LiberalLoner]

20. When I joined in 81, I actually saw "FTA" scratched into some old lockers in

an old barracks. Wondered what it meant and someone explained it to me....

[AnArmyVeteran]

21. I guess we could change it to FBP now :)

I remember seeing it scratched into the sides of old army trucks, buildings, everywhere. One thing I noticed when serving was the rampant waste of time doing 'busy work', not productive work. I thought of a lot of ways to make things more efficient but I never found one suggestion box during my entire time in the service :).

Happy Saturday!

[NNN0LHI]

18. Watched a US Army platoon mutiny and refuse to engage the enemy on the 5:00 o'clock news once

That was getting close to the end.

Don

[EFerrari]

19. I love that film.

:kick:

[hvn_nbr_2]

22. "What are they gonna do, draft me?"

During that time, we draftees often made that observation about potential punishments for minor infractions. As in: If I'm late for KP, what are they gonna do, draft me?