Wanna see a study whose implications scare the living shit out of me?

[Jackpine Radical]

http://culturemap.com/newsdetail/05-28-10-with-empathy-at-an-all-time-low-generation-y-is-generation-me/

With empathy at an all-time low, Generation Y suffers from a "narcissism epidemic"
By Steven Thomson
May 28th, 2010 at 12:17 PM

Finally putting credit to rumors about the current generation of youth being selfish bloodsuckers, a new University of Michigan study reports that since 2000, college students have become less empathetic than ever before.

The study states that compared to the late 1970s, students are less likely to agree with phrases like, "I sometimes try to understand my friends better by imagining how things look from their perspective," and "I often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me." The research — conducted by Sara Konrath at the University of Michigan's Institute for Social Research — was just presented in Boston at the annual meeting of the Association for Psychological Science.

Konrath based her findings off of surveys conducted with almost 14,000 college students over the past 30 years. According to Psychology Today, this is the largest study to date to quantify the decline.

"College kids today are about 40 percent lower in empathy than their counterparts of 20 or 30 years ago," she explains. "The increase in exposure to media during this time period could be one factor. Compared to 30 years ago, the average American now is exposed to three times as much non-work-related information. In terms of media content, this generation of college students grew up with video games, and a growing body of research, including work done by my colleagues at Michigan, is establishing that exposure to violent media numbs people to the pain of others."

[Lance_Boyle]

1. Kids brought up to believe they are the centers of the Universe

believe they are the centers of the Universe. Film at 11.

[daggahead]

4. LOL! I'd expect to hear that from Tom Tucker! n/t

[happygoluckytoyou]

99. i guess i'll twitter that to the 5 billion people who wait for my every word and opinion daily......

[amborin]

56. +1 they're raised to be narcissists

[TexasObserver]

167. I blame Barney the Dinosaur.

No, Barney, they're not all fucking SPE-CIAL.

[daggahead]

2. I wonder if ...

... the proliferation of day-care during this time is also contributing? Less time with mom & dad, more with a stranger?

[CoffeeCat]

63. Kids who are raised by strangers...

...detach emotionally.

Then, when they grow into adults, they're still detached from their own emotions--which
leaves them unable to identify with the emotions of others.

The perfect recipe for raising an unempathetic society.

[femrap]

103. So why just this particular

generation? Child care has been around a very long time.

No, our children follow the behaviors of our leaders. They set the example. And we just had eight years of bullying, no apologies, and opinions are facts. Civility gets one nowhere. That's what this generation has learned. And before that they learned to lie until you are actually caught. Deny Deny Deny and deny righteously!

And of course there are the Rushes and Billies screaming in the background....never mind the massive amount of sexism and violence on prime time TV.

And maybe this generation subconsciously knows that it is f*cked.

[SoCalDem]

91. Probably a factor, as well as all the "games" that children play

Games that are solitary games, that involve "shooting" people.

and kids who are raised by strangers..for money.. don;t get the parents' values..


couple that with the crazy shit that goes on at school & it's no wonder..

[keroro gunsou]

197. sure... the old standby

blame the video games for kids being little shits. i grew on video games and the worst thing that happened to me was it made me want to be a graphic artist and make my own games.

[Demeter]

3. The Narcissists Have Been Fruitful and Multiplied

There was a significant cohort in the Boomer generation expousing "Greed is Good"...and expontential growth as they reproduced. Then there's the vanishing opportunity factor for the young in education and employment...and voila!

Next stop...the revolution, part 3.

[marions ghost]

39. "Greed is Good"

...garbage :thumbsdown:

Look a little deeper?

[Echo In Light]

5. Learning the "Value$" of Corporate Culture

[flamingdem]

67. great graphic nt

[shraby]

6. Two words...day care. With the turnover in personnel in

those day care centers, very young children find it's better not to become attached to a care-giver who disappears after a year or so and by extension find it better not to attach themselves to anyone besides the nuclear family.

[Missy Vixen]

34. A year? Try 90 days

When Judith Viorst wrote "Necessary Losses" in 1986, she published findings that day care providers lasted an average of 90 days at a job due to low pay and burnout.

We're now reaping the whirlwind of an entire generation of children who have no sense of permanence or caring. IMHO. YMMV.

[femrap]

106. Studies have

shown that day care is not the 'evil' stepmom. You are simply spouting what the right wingers want you to say so mothers will feel guilty for putting food on the table or it will make women (who have men/partners in their lives who work) feel they have to stay home.

Many women don't have a choice...they have to work. The fathers provide NOTHING to their children. So maybe this generations problems stem from a lack of fathers who can financially care for them.

And might I add: Day care workers are extremely underpaid. Everyone babbles on and on about 'the children, the poor children,' yet the people who care for them are paid sh*t.

[shraby]

168. I know they are grossly underpaid. I'm not just spouting

what right wingers want..I have watched this for probably 50 years and thought a lot about the effects on the children who attach themselves to a care giver then that care giver quits the job. To the child, it would be like the person they have learned to depend on and love has died. How many adults could handle the death of a loved one year after year and not be affected? Children are so very vulnerable and in my estimation belong in their own home with one of their parents as the care giver, or at least a family member who doesn't "die" when they quit taking care of the child.
I know that the economic circumstances for the vast majority of families cannot afford the luxury of a parent not being in the workplace. I'm not blind. I just wish there was a work-around to the whole mess because there are a lot of children and young adults seriously all messed up.

[LooseWilly]

184. Blah blah blah... I was raised by caregivers, and tv... but I'm not un-empathetic.

I know people who were raised by parents, and others raised by line-in nannies, and others like me that basically raised themselves from the age of about 12... and these factors have never made a difference in any case that I have seen.

Rather... when one feels beset and sees the prospect of themselves being victimized, then they become less empathetic about others who might suffer such like, because they're too busy trying to take measures to cover their own asses... or worse yet, they've already written their own asses off- and misery loves company.

Stagnating/dropping wages for families, reduced prospects for jobs that will pay a living wage in the face of high inflation and stagnating wages, a decade of war and fear politics, deregulation of corporations that have armies of lawyers to protect themselves from lawsuits which are the de facto sole means of regulation... the notion that kids don't notice these things... the notion that having June Cleaver &/or Alice as a regular mommy figure is the only thing that kids notice... is condescending and demeaning to children, if you ask me.

Please stop assuming that children are idiots. Give them some hope, and they'll have enough metaphysical breathing room to give a shit about the hopes of others.

[femrap]

192. I guess I don't think kids are

that vulnerable....day care is a social setting. They make friends and learn social skills. Parents tell their kids that people are looking out for them while they go to work so to provide a roof and meals, etc.

Many studies have shown that daycare isn't bad for kids.

A daycare worker is NOT a parent. And to equate a worker leaving a job to 'death' is a bit much. People/friends/teachers come and go...that's part of life. Do you want the kids to have the same teacher all through school? I think kids are adaptable...more so than adults.

If anyone messes up the kids, it's bad parents who don't take the TIME to spend with them...instead they buy them crap. Many people are not cut out to be parents....I wish they would realize that and stop reproducing.

[olegramps]

190. Maybe if the men belonged to unions their wifes wouldn't be forced to work.

During the 1950s to the early 1960s 36% of the work force belonged to unions and it was not a coincidence that working families enjoyed their highest level of security. Of course their were many families in which both parents worked, but generally married women were stay at home moms. Men during this period believed that it was reflection on their not being able to cut it that their wifes were employed. It isn't a coincidence that today's 6% union membership has created a situation in which many women are forced to work. Of course many couples were both employed because they desired a better life style, bigger house, nice vacations, etc. My point is that those who would desire to stay home and spend their days raising kids and being homemakers are in many cases unable to do so because one paycheck isn't adequate in today's economy.

[femrap]

193. Lots of women

wanted work outside the home. They had talents they wanted to use.

Lots of couples got caught up in the race with the Joneses and consumerism grabbed them like good little Americans should be grabbed. And the cycle of DEBT began. Everyone had to work for that big house and big cars/SUVs. They dug their hole.

They bought into the 'american dream.' Not much fun having to work all the time to afford that big McMansion.

The Rich White Boyz got rid of the unionized manufacturing jobs...those jobs are in China now. And they're not coming back.

The Empire is teetering on the abyss. WASF.

[olegramps]

203. Yes, I agree that many women desire to work outside the home.

I don't agree that the jobs that manufacturing jobs that have been outsourced are necessarily lost forever. Take away the tax breaks that the corps got for outsourcing and tariff products that have been outsourced could provide a more level playing field for the American Worker.

[femrap]

205. I don't know.....

look at what they're paying workers at Foxcomm who manufacture for HP, Apple, and others. These people work 12 hr/day, 6 day/week. They're the ones committing suicide. And the dudes at Apple and HP feign surprise and say 'Well, we must look into this.' Pleeeeeese. They knew exactly how those workers were treated...why do you think they went there....? Bigger profit margins.

All we can hope for is that Chinese workers unite and DEMAND better pay and decent working conditions...then and only then will the U.S. worker possibly become competitive.

Look at GM...they're paying new workers only $12 to $13/hour. How do you raise a family on that? We're a 3rd world nation. No middle class to speak of. We're a fascist state where the gov't does exactly what the Corporations want them to do. And the Judges have all been placed neatly into the Corporation's back pocket.

May the Rich White Dudes choke on their money.

[RedRoses323]

207. Kudos!

:headbang:

[JoshieR]

128. While that may be the case in aggregate,..

...I think that the inadequacies of modern parents also plays a significant role. Speaking as the child of a mother who runs a day care, some daycare people provide much more love and nurture than the parents themselves do. There are many parents who feel that their children are prefect and are unwilling to discipline where discipline is due. This problem is too big to place the blame solely on the fact that Mommy works and the kids are in daycare.

Take, for example, the numbness of the American People to physical violence. Increased media coverage and violent video games have made images that were deeply troubling to the generation who watched Vietnam unfold on their televisions into just random images to today's youth. Media coverage and the presentation of this type of imagery, in my opinion, is what is causing people to be numb to the suffering of others, and the instilling of a "Me First" ideology in the heads of one's children is what is causing kids to be narcissists.

[Kalun D]

178. Wrong, Two Letters

TV

[Raineyb]

7. What do you expect? It's not like their parents are all that empathetic either.

You reap what you sow.

(See the thread about students graduating with 100K in school debt and the number of people calling them idiots and other names while showing their empathy if you don't know what I mean.)

[bluestateguy]

8. We can thank the self-esteem nonsense from the 1980's and 1990's for this

"You're a winner! You're a champ! You're special!"

No, you're not. At least not yet. That status has to be earned.

[CoffeeCat]

65. I think kids need to hear more of this...

You can never tell a child enough that they are special, worthy and loved.

The problem is--that kids are SHOWN that they are worthless. Parents dump them
in daycare before they're two months old. They're too busy and tired to give
them the real love and nurturing they deserve. So, these kids are dead inside.

They've learned that it hurts to feel and to need--so they shut it all off. The
end result is that they feel nothing and are unable to feel anything for anyone
else.

Believe me, I see it everyday in the suburbs. No one talks about the affluent
suburbs and how kids are practically abandoned before they hit double digits.
Sure, they might be constantly told how "great" they are at school--because everyone
gets a blue ribbon. However, these kids don't believe it. They're emotionally
stunted and unable to feel.

That's the real problem.

[DonCoquixote]

95. One of the best responses

"You can never tell a child enough that they are special, worthy and loved.

The problem is--that kids are SHOWN that they are worthless"

Or as a Boomer musician named David Bowie put it-

"And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They're quite aware of what they're going through."

[abelenkpe]

107. Yay.

Thanks for making me feel like crap about having to work and putting my kids in daycare.

I guess I could quit my job, live in a slum off welfare instead tho. That'd be good for them.

I'd love to be able to afford to stay home with them. You need to change our whole society tho. Make it possible to support a family off of one wage earner. How is that going to happen?

No one ever discusses that. Instead it's the bad teachers, bad school system, bad parents. Too much praise, not enough discipline, blah blah blah....

[femrap]

110. Our culture

puts tremendous pressure on women to be mothers. If a woman doesn't become a mother, there's something wrong with her. A childless woman is better off to tell others that her child died in an auto accident years ago than admit it was a 'choice.'

Not every woman needs to be a mother. I truly believe that if a woman doesn't have a very strong passion to become a mother, it's better that she remain childless. Get a dog and see how that goes.

There are so many unwanted children in this world. Nearly 1/2 of all pregnancies are not planned.

And dudes...as papas, you are not doing a very good job. Wear a damn condom or get it snipped. Be a man, have a vasectomy.

When I grew up, there was a huge push about Overpopulation...now, none. Have a bump, get a bump, all the Hollywooders are bumping. It's sick.

There is no more serious decision to make in this world than the one to have a child....and no bigger responsibility. This is never discussed....just 'save the fetus.'

I have a magnet on my fridge: 'Just because you can reproduce doesn't mean you should.'

[DesertFlower]

146. i had an unplanned pregnancy in 1960.

we got married and my son was born. i did the best i could, but i was never meant to be a mother. i got divorced when my son was 5. fortunately i had family help. my grandmother took care of my son when i worked.

my best friend got married, but did not want children. she almost had a nervous breakdown when she found out she was pregnant. she was not a very good mother. eventually she and her husband divorced. after about a year, she gave her ex-husband custody of their son. he was about 7 or 8.

[femrap]

159. Thank you

for speaking out. I remember a show on Oprah years ago about this topic and it was a Firestorm!!! I was shocked.

Women seem to get the heat on this topic. Our culture doesn't demand men to be decent fathers. Or fathers, for that matter. Being a bachelor has appeal....of course women are Old Maids.

Again. Thanks for sharing your story. My parents were divorced when I was very young...I was lucky to have grandparents that cared for me.

[DesertFlower]

170. my first husband is with his 3rd wife.

he had a daughter with his 2nd wife. she's almost 39. he married his 3rd wife in 1990. he's almost 70 and has a 17 year old daughter. lol.

i've been with my second husband since 1970. we live our lives the way we want -- not the way society expects us to. we allow each other our space.

[femrap]

195. Good

for you! Nothing like having good space.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Amaya]

123. you seem empathic

:)

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kenfrequed]

90. Uhm...

I'm not sure I agree.

I think these attempts were percieved as fake as hell and did NOT create some kind of aspiration hole or egotism.

I think the wild pursuit to compete and destroy others is what kills anything resembling empathy and all the little phony hug-cards and 'you're you' stickers in the world doesn't change the fact that we have become a wildly short term, numbers obsessed culture of social cannibals.

Class rank is watched like a hawk, attendance polices are more savage and demanding than ever, all student communication on computers is monitored and reported to school officials constantly. Standardized tests of dizzying banality are used to describe and discuss the learning capacity of students. Busy work has been a function of eduction for decades.

Most homes are now either dual income or single parent and both parents shirk parenting duties more and more.

[JackRiddler]

158. Bullshit, but I guess everyone's going to blame their favorite scapegoat.

[keroro gunsou]

198. were it not for that nonsense

i'd never have played any sport. i wasn't the star, but my parents appreciated and cheered more for the effort than the results (that and i am completely inept at sports) didn't give me a swelled head or sense that the universe owed me...

[Chulanowa]

9. Me: Kids these days!

My parents: Kids these days!
My grandparents: Kids these days!
My great-grandparents: Kids these days!
My great-great-grandparents: Innui na páistí! / Himmak nittak alla!

[Exultant Democracy]

11. +1, same song diffferent tune.

[femrap]

113. I don't know....

the ability to empathize is something that stands out....just think a whole generation of Ws!

Or maybe this generation realizes it will soon be 'dog eat dog' in a world of dwindling resources and food.

[Warren DeMontague]

171. empathizing with others is not the same thing

as carrying a whole gaggle of them around in one's own head.

[Romulox]

15. Despite this truism, actual cultural shifts in attitudes are readily observable.

Put children's (evident) narcissism to the side for a moment--there are measurable cultural shifts in attitudes regarding diversity, for example.

So, the song notwithstanding, it is possible for young people to be more narcissistic than previous generations. :hi:

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulox]

27. Ever notice that people who are the MOST alike sometimes get along the worst?

I surely hope you're not calling me a boomer, either way! :silly: :hi:

[BreweryYardRat]

Oooh yeah.

Narcissistic? No more than any other generation.

And a lot of us are losing that earlier than other folks, what with the current economic/sociological/political situation.

[eShirl]

29. wait till you're the older generation

(says the Gen X-er...)

[Odin2005]

31. Well, according to what I've read us Millenials will be much like the Greatest Generation.

In other words, a few years after one of us becomes president our kids will start screaming at us and calling us pigs. :yoiks:

[liberation]

84. Yeah, but without all that made the greatest generation great...

[Romulox]

100. Triumph to Rob Reiner: "You're like Orson Wells without all that genius baggage!"

:rofl:

(Sorry, but your comment reminded me of the quip)

[liberation]

136. LOL... your comment was great....

.... FOR ME TO POOP ON!!!!!!!


Boy do I miss Triumph... ;-)

[abelenkpe]

115. +1000 nt

[Aaria]

130. The last generation is the Screen Generation........

They look at life on the TV, Computer, or a little screen on their phones. They look at the outside world through the screen in the window.

[Heddi]

177. nt

wrong place

[uponit7771]

21. +1

[Odin2005]

23. +1,000,000,000,000

[Ikonoklast]

51. "What is happening to our young people?"

"They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"



-Plato

[chrisa]

85. Damn whipperschnappers!

Get off my lawn ye damn whipper schnappers before I hit ye with me cain. :)

[nyc 4 Biden]

86. +1000

[Javaman]

102. LOL my mom would tell me how my grandfather would complain that she was

playing Benny Goodman to loud! LOL

He would say, "Oh this crazy jazz! Give me "good old summer time" any day!"

[Exultant Democracy]

10. I looked at the survey. It doesn't stike me as a tool capible of drawing the conclusions they drew

would suggest cultural and linguistic changes account for the difference while human nature remained more or less the same.
If you used this study on a group of Arawak they would prob score close to a o on this scale, but it would be absurd to claim that they are any less empathetic then us.

[Bitwit1234]

12. Well with most of their parents tea bags what do you expect

[Radical Activist]

13. Empathy is a lot more than looking down on someone and feeling sorry for them.

There was already a post on this. As I pointed out in that thread, there's a problem with the wording of these questions. I would hope that we've advanced in our society's understanding of what it means to be an empathic person enough to not hold the patronizing, paternalistic attitudes in those questions.

[amborin]

57. "looking down on someone" where are you getting that from?

empathy is trying to put oneself in the shoes of the other, to understand how they are experiencing something, to try to identify with them; it can involve feeling sorry for them, as a secondary reaction, if their situation warrents the sorrow, but not in a paternalistic sense;

[Radical Activist]

93. I'm getting it from the poll questions.

I think its a generational difference. I don't see an empathetic young person responding well to them. They sound like they were written by an upper-middle class person who only sees poor neighborhoods on college field trips.

[amborin]

173. i do; the questions seemed fine; Ann Arbor has an outstanding soc survey institute and

the survey seemed well-constructed; i think it would measure empathy in college age students; and it dovetails w/ other studies suggesting they place more importance on money than previous generations

[liberation]

87. LOL

What is so hard to understand about "empathy?" Good grief... for a "radical activist" you always seem to make a great milquetoast reactionary advocate, out of sheer coincidence I am sure.

[Radical Activist]

92. If you're going to state that

then you need to explain what you think is reactionary about not feeling condescension and pity toward the poor. That's the attitude of center-left blue-bloods who only see ghettos on field trips. I come from a working class background so I don't feel sorry for my friends and family who do as well. That's the attitude I see in the poll questions and it disgusts me. We don't need to feel pity for people who are less fortunate and give them a hand out. We need to politically empower them to make their own decisions.

So yes, I'm arguing from a radical viewpoint.

[liberation]

Well... "red herrings" and "radical" both have Rs in their names

alas... that does not mean they are necessarily the same thing.

You're trying to twist a simple psychological questionnaire regarding basic human empathy into something else, via a massive red herring. This is a study carried out by psychologists, not a review by social workers or a manifesto by a politician in charge.

[Radical Activist]

141. No, my point is very direct in questioning the validity of the poll.

Bad poll questions with a generational bias will result in useless results that can be used to reach false conclusions. Do you understand the definition of red herring? Nothing could be more at the heart of the issue than my comment. They're making idiotic conclusions because they used idiotically flawed questions in their survey.

[Odin2005]

149. +1

[blindpig]

14. Well....

“The ruling ideas of each age have ever been the ideas of its ruling class.”

you know who....

k&r

[Radical Activist]

16. The headline is that older people don't undestand technology and social media

so they're making far-fetched attempts to blame something they don't understand for a problem that doesn't really exist.

[laughingliberal]

30. Oh, I think a few of us understand it. But it didn't raise us. nt

[Radical Activist]

36. True. This generation is much more connected to people

from different backgrounds than previous ones. Thus, their idea that empathy isn't a feeling of pity one feels for someone they don't know. That was obviously the case for those who wrote the poll questions.

[704wipes]

64. And we have some manners when to use it and when not to

<cell phones>

[Rex]

17. I don't see anything that should propel Gen Y to become more compassionate

certianly not from the last two decades. If anything, I can see why Gen Y has less humanity than previous groups - they've watched their supposed 'elders' act like killing monsters for profit. They've watched supposed leaders start wars over known lies and send off friends to die for nothing...how can that not make a group callous to the suffering of others? They decided America stands for, "get the fuck out of my way, I want it".

[reggie the dog]

54. "get the fick out of my way i want it"

and "i got mine fuck you" is what america stands for

[earth mom]

18. Sounds like Faux News and Limblah have been doing their jobs well.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[Bill McBlueState]

55. the median age of Fox News viewers is 65

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/05/05/average-age-of-fox-news-viewer-is-65/

the average age of right-wing radio listeners is 67.

[Triana]

20. We are creating psychopaths

This has been evident to me for quite some time. Didn't need a study.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[femrap]

118. Great article....

thanks for posting. However, it makes me want to go back to bed and hide under the covers.

I can practically smell the lack of empathy in our culture. Hell, I'd be happy just to see some sympathy.

I'm not much of a fan of the human race lately. Prefer the company of animals!:-) Even a :dem: makes a good buddy....

[Romulox]

32. Exactly right. Being a modern consumer and corporate drone requires psychopathy.

So the training for it starts young.

[Echo In Light]

35. .

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MbXVixbidDQ/Srn5cvtWgdI/AAAAAAAAAfg/KYimbvnjTYU/s320/Corporate+Slave.jpg

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[TransitJohn]

44. Otherwise known as psychology.

:hide:

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

150. WTF? I'm one of the most ANTI-MISOGYNIST male posters on this board

Where the hell do you get misogyny out of my post? And Ageism cuts both ways, "kids these days" is just as much ageist crap as "old people are taking our jobs.

[Name removed]

160. Deleted sub-thread

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[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

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[Warren DeMontague]

179. It gives me an odd feeling of deja vu

like, who else does that remind me of?


...

..


?

[tammywammy]

157. You're completely out of line accusing Odin of sexism

I suggest you search his posting history.

[Odin2005]

162. She/He obviously didn't bother to understand my post.

I was saying "Millennial men" in general, NOT me in particular. I was making an observation and the poster rudely assumed it was a normative statement.

[Warren DeMontague]

181. Reincarnation can make some "people" cranky.

As can multiple personality disorders.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

186. no, Odin is a true friend to women.

I don't know what the deleted message was, but if you think Odin is a sexist, then you haven't read him much here.

[deutsey]

25. Personally, I've seen a pan-generational "narcissism epidemic" lately

People in general seem less and less able to communicate face-to-face or virtually with one another beyond a superficial, egocentric level.

True communication involves knowing what it is you're trying to say and imparting it effectively in a way that is clearly understood by the person to whom you're communicating it.

I think the breakdown in this dynamic comes from people not taking the time to mull over what it is they want to say and then making the effort to convey it in a way that others will truly comprehend. At the same time, people are also often too rushed or distracted to listen actively to what someone is trying to communicate to them.
I suppose this is nothing new. TS Eliot wrote in 1934:

The endless cycle of idea and action,
Endless invention, endless experiment,
Brings knowledge of motion, but not of stillness;
Knowledge of speech, but not of silence;
Knowledge of words, and ignorance of The Word.
All our knowledge brings us nearer to our ignorance,
All our ignorance brings us nearer to death,
But nearness to death no nearer to God.
Where is the Life we have lost in living?
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?

Maybe it's just more pervasive these days. It's just that I think I'm noticing a lot more people "talking at" each other rather than "talking with" each other.

[onestepforward]

38. The lack of listening

contributes to a part of what you said about people "talking at" rather than "talking with."

I see it all the time. People are busy thinking about what they will say next vs. listening to and truly hearing what the other person has to say.

[marions ghost]

40. yes

Narcissism is prevalent and expressed in all generations in America.

[zorahopkins]

26. The Center of The Universe -- Discovered At Last!

[mopinko]

83. is that carol burnett?

i could live in that universe.

[stuntcat]

33. they've got to be "lower in empathy"

Nature's been dying around them ever since they were born. The future's being trashed right in front of them.

What about my neighbors 2 little babies? I hope they're lower in empathy, because by the time they're my age they'll either be calmly, happily watching the planet die or furiously blaming their parents for bringing them into the mess we're making.

[JCMach1]

37. Generation Self Esteem... was taught nothing about humility, sacrifice

or even good old-fashioned guilt...

Who needs to feel guilty if it's all about you, right?

[RagAss]

41. Generation "Wolf Pack".....

Death Panels ? Wait 20 years for the real ones.

[Echo In Light]

46. Auh, buck up, lil camper. After all, the nukes'll likely take us out long before then

If not...imagine a "reality" tv show (oxymoron if there ever was one) in the not too distant future...where contestants play their precious video-kill-games to determine actual life/death for the poor, the elderly, the invalid. Fuckin' rats will be high-fivin' one another with poison glimmering in their Stepford eyes.

Mmm..well, maybe that's a tad cynical ;)

[RagAss]

60. I can see it.....n/t

[political_Dem]

42. When these kids have play dates and overt supervision by helicopter parents

at every stage of development, sadly this generation is what you get. These kids are the most supervised and scheduled generation ever. It seems since birth they are programmed to make a 5.2 GPA at every curriculum level.

They're also the most pampered and coddled generation as well. If they aren't asking for the latest Chanel bag or Dolce & Gabbana sunglasses, they're wanting the latest phone to "sext" their friends in chat speak.


And when these kids get one, bad grade or told that they can't do something? Watch out. They go bananas.

[Echo In Light]

47. Thank you for that! We push ZERO "Discipline & Structure" on our daughter

All that shit's for is to ensure the next round of Worker Bees falls Right in line, keeping too BUSY-BUSY-BUSY to think about anything that might actually matter. We're bad americans, thank fuckin christ, b/c we allow our child to just be a child.

[CoffeeCat]

70. My ten year old daughter...

...was told today, that she read the most minutes of anyone in her class. She
read 11,000 minutes in her free time since the beginning of the year. My daughter
said to me, "I think the reason that I read the most is because so many of my classmates
are so busy with soccer, ballet, gymnastics, karate, language lessons, piano lessons and
all of the other stuff they do during the week."

I thought that was incredibly revealing, and for a minute or two--after my
daughter said this, I could barely respond. I find it sad how children are
over scheduled and how little time they have to read, play outside or just
be kids.

[woo me with science]

43. I don't care.

It doesn't affect me.

[JNelson6563]

45. I've yet to meet any that match those of boomers.

I know a few cases of such epic narcissism it's incredible! Of course the depths of mental illness play into it as narcissism is a good barometer of our mental health (at least to some degree).

In unhealthy environments one does not outgrow the narcissism one is born with as a survival instinct. It is retained for the same reason it was there initially. It makes sense though. Lots of pretty sick boomers out there, of course they would produce sick children.

Julie

[marions ghost]

49. whenever things heat up politically

you get these people coming out of the woodwork saying a whole generation is (whatever)-----------blah blah. Divisive, basically stupid crap.

"Of course the boomers would produce sick children...hmmmmm...:shrug:

Narcissism spans all generations. I think we all know epic cases. Stress helps it manifest too. And all generations are under great stress in this country.

[JNelson6563]

52. It's part of poor mental health.

Hence the term "sick".

I don't think of narcissism as a character flaw.

Julie

[marions ghost]

129. I don't think of Narcissism as merely a character flaw at all either

Narcissism capital N (NPD) as a very serious syndrome--destructive, damaging, even psychopathic in the extreme manifestation. And it is a lot more common than most people realize. In fact I think it's part of the sickness of our political system--which attracts and supports high-functioning, "successful" Narcissists.

The problem I have is with saying that any particular generation is more prone to it. The boomers are the first generation where it's really been studied, but it probably wasn't studied well enough to compare to subsequent generations. There are PLENTY of Narcissists among the WW2 generation, the boomers, Gen X, Gen Y (Millenials)--it runs the whole gamut. To try to say it's more prevalent in any one generation can't be substantiated at this point.

But as far as the study is concerned, it does lead to some useful speculation as to why the
younger generation might test higher on the Narcissist scale. I think speculation on that is interesting. But you'd have to do a lot more testing to prove a trend that divides generations, IMO.

[Gaedel]

152. Pre-Boomer

I was born in the "empty years" of the 1930s before the baby boom. We had pretty much "universal military service" because there were so few of us available for the draft at the time. The question was not "would you serve" but "when and how you would serve". Narcissism was pretty prevalent among our peers, but the difference was that "acting narcissistic" tended to have unpleasant consequences. When the boomers came along, they felt that unpleasant consequences should not be the result of their narcissistic acts and that everyone was entitled to a "get out of jail free" card. Thanks to the boomers, college registration is now a smorgasbord of choices with the students being able to choose their instructors and bypass the hard choices. I graduated in 1961 with a 3.0 GPA and was in the top 20% of my class. September registration went like this:

1. Go to the first table. Fill out a three part card with your info.

2. Go to the table for your academic department:

"Gaedel, are you still majoring in Civil Engineering?"

"Yes sir!"

"Did you pass everything last year?"

"Yes sir!"

"Here is your schedule. Classes start tomorrow morning at 8."

3. Go to the last table and choose your room.

[marions ghost]

154. read up on NPD

then you'll understand why I say that you can't define any one generation as having this personality disorder. The one-size fits all theory--ie. "The boomers narcissistic acts didn't have unpleasant consequences"--too simplistic. WW2 generation--just as many Narcissists. Read up on it & you'll see that what I say is true.

This doesn't have much to do with having a lot of choice in college courses. :shrug:

[marions ghost]

156. Read up on NPD

then you'll understand why I say that you can't define any one generation as having this personality disorder. The one-size fits all theory--ie. "The boomers' narcissistic acts didn't have unpleasant consequences" = too simplistic. WW2 generation has just as many Narcissists. Read up on it & you'll see that what I say is true.

This doesn't have much to do with having a lot of choice in college courses. :shrug:

[laundry_queen]

196. Good post.

It's not just entrenched in the political systems. It's pervasive in the whole corporate structure as well. When you live in a society that values money above people, and climbing the ladder in a large corporation is a sure way to money, you have people who are willing to do anything to anyone just to get to the top. Survival of the fittest and all that.

I do think there is a trend toward narcissism. I'm just not sure what is causing it, exactly. I think narcissism is generally rewarded in our culture and then young people look up to that (think celebs and the like).

I do know that in my inner circle, I have plenty of narcissists and they were all raised differently. I think it's more societal than parenting, but that's just my totally unsubstantiated opinion .

[Mojorabbit]

75. I am a boomer

and the friends my age have either spent their life in service or went the totally opposite materialistic route. There is a split there.

[Odin2005]

77. The Hippies were a small minority. Most Boomers are very materialistic.

The Hippies did not "become" the Yuppies, the Yuppies were always there, but didn't become visible until Reagan made it socially acceptable to be a greedy prick.

[PJPhreak]

89. I think the "yuppie" trend started with this...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_I8xQuJY0zgo/Sw_8u95rbSI/AAAAAAAADqk/GqsyUFK-MA4/s1600/prep+cover+rev.jpg

This book was crazy popular when it came out..."Look Muffy,A Book for Us"

[TexasObserver]

169. Haven't Boomers provided for your every need your entire life?

Based upon what you've reported here, your parents raised you and you attend college, which is paid by a combination of parents, grants, and loans. You are provided health care by government programs.

What have boomers ever done to you besides meet your every need, in spite of your lack of thankfulness or even recognition that others have provided your care every minute of your life?

[Odin2005]

191. Holy off-on-a-tangent Batman!!!

Every generation has it's virtues and vices, just because I am saying something about a particular generation's vices does not mean I am slamming everyone in that generation as having those vices. I am perfectly willing to admit my own generation's vices; if history is any indication when we are the Boomers' age we'll have a bit of a hubris problem, not unlike the Greatest Generation, and for the Greatest Generation that hubris led to the clusterfuck called Vietnam... *GULP* :yoiks:

[L0oniX]

48. I would suggest that those who have a low capacity for empathy will also tend to commit crimes...

and generally have less morals.

[Echo In Light]

50. Hence aspiring to fulfill their role in Corporate America, where no one is ever held accountable

US corporate/state nexus = Crime Syndicate

[reggie the dog]

53. i got my ba in 2001

in chicago and I remember rediscovering empathy thanks to mdma back in 1999. Aren't these kids today still gobbing up ecstacy like in the late 90's? the kids these days need moby http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqLvbpcsPj4&feature=related

[Romulox]

81. Was watching a lot of Happy Mondays vids recently...

CALL THE COPS!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnBi-LNM0Og

[Trillo]

58. Perhaps Chomsky was close.

He seems to have said education was a series of filters, centered around obedience by witholding one's real feelings.

[Old Troop]

59. The study may be true, but I've found that the current generation of young

people are just as likely to volunteer and help others as my (boomer) generation was. I have a 24 year old daughter and she and her friends do cancer walks, work in church food pantries and are very observant of injustices. I know young soldiers who maintain their idealism. Don't let the hype blind you to all the good these folks do.

[walldude]

68. Agreed... my kids love to be involved.. and so do their friends...

I've stopped believing these idiotic studies. I'd rather believe my own eyes.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

61. feminists have been saying for years that the ubiquity of violence against women,

the glamorization of it, the sexualizing of it, numbs people to women's humanity.

Maybe the point will be heard now that it's taken out of the realm of "women's issue"

[DonCoquixote]

96. Nonsense

In Japan, they have porn that makes the worst of American porn look tame by comparison, so much so that there are several Japanese variants of it. This is shown on commercials, on posters, as everyday as Mickey Mouse.

Guess which country actually has one of the lowest amounts of rape in the world, much lower than America or Europe?

It is the fact our culture numbs everyone to everyones humanity! If we banned all porn tomorrow, we would still be violent, perhaps even more so now that emotions are pressed. Ever wonder why all the prudish societies tend to be violent ones?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

182. actually, I'm not talking about porn.

Porn has a very useful place. Countries with liberal porn laws are less repressive, hence less violent towards women. I'm talking about messages about women's identity embedded in mainstream society. I just came across some research that shows internet access to porn correlates with reduced incidence of rape.
( http://www.impactlab.com/2008/01/06/internet-porn-shown-to-decrease-incidence-of-rape/ ) Again, that makes sense. And again, I want to reiterate my opinion that the most damaging messages about women (and men) come in the form of mass media imagery and story lines that suggest, teach and reinforce our roles in society (male and female roles).

Yes, I'm aware of the style of porn in Japan; it's extremely extreme. On a side note, one interesting difference about hentai compared to Western cartoon porn that I have noticed is that there are fairly frequent depictions of male on female oral sex ( usually shown in a dominant/submissive context). In Western cartoon porn, on the other hand, depictions of cunnilingus are rare to the point of near non-existence. Forced felatio, however is standard.

Perhaps the low rape and crime rates in general there have something to do with the society as a whole. I'm no researcher on the subject. all I have are general awarenesses. I do know Japan is a much more cohesive society (is that the right way to describe it? I don't know, maybe conformist is a more accurate description.) There is a strong group-mind there, and great concern for proper social behavior and courtesy. Courteous behavior in the US seems to be decaying. A recent University study (Wisconsin ? Michigan? I don't remember) indicates that empathy is deteriorating in the US.

Seems self-evident that loss of respect for other people would result in higher violence and rape. Yet crime is decreasing in the US. But rape is highest in the US of all countries that publish such statistics. source: http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~ad361896/anne/cease/rapestatisticspage.html

The authors of Not a Minute More: Ending Violence against Women (The United Nations Women's Development Fund, 2003, http://www.unifem.org/filesconfirmed/207/312_book_complete_eng.pdf, accessed November 22, 2004) notes that reporting a rape is seen as a danger by victims, who may suffer further at the hands of police or their own families:

The stigma, disbelief, ridicule or retribution attached to speaking out makes it nearly impossible to obtain accurate national statistics on rape in many countries. Having suffered one trauma, many women do not want to undergo additional emotional pain at the hands of the police. According to the Philippines National Police, approximately two in ten rapes are reported. The rest are kept hidden; in many cases a woman's family discourages her from reporting the incident. http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2056/Rape-Sexual-Harassment-Around-World-PURPOSES-RAPE.html

When women talk about their experiences on the receiving end of sexist discrimination or abuse, they are frequently mocked and denied--particularly if discussing it in mixed company--I see this phenomenon frequently here at DU, and it is interesting to note that the above quote on rape specifically refers to stigma, disbelief and ridicule or retribution aimed at women who speak out.

I don't have the answers. All I know is, misogyny is pernicious in this society, as well as many others.

[DonCoquixote]

187. pleasant surprise

I half expected to be called a liar, a sexist and scum, but you actually read.
Sometimes I come very close to writing off DU, but responses like this, and people like you who defended my fellow Autist Odin, remind me that there are decent people hidden somewhere in this mess. :)

[BlancheSplanchnik]

206. well, thanks, DonCoquixote

I try. :)

A mind is a terrible thing to waste!

You're an Autist? Very interesting! I have ADD non Hyperactive, very severe case, and I notice it is seen to share some features with autism. Now I just came across a website talking about a link between Autsim, ADD and other neurological diseases and autoimmune involvement. I don't know if it relates to the controversial and basically debunked idea of a vaccines-autism link, but it caught my eye because I grew up with a chronic disease that is thought to have an autoimmunity link.
http://nids.net/news.htm

Well, anyway.... because sexism and its repercussions are so very real and harmful to women -- and so frequently disparaged, talking about it so stigmatized -- I try my best to reply thoughtfully. (Well, of course, there's a thankfully fairly small contingent of "regulars" here who live to stigmatize feminist analysis and women's experience here. They don't really deserve well thought out replies, but they do serve the purpose of illustrating the misogynist attitude.)

[femrap]

121. I'll post this again......

maybe you've already seen it...

http://www.truthout.org/why-misogynists-make-great-informants59966

[BlancheSplanchnik]

185. I did see that, the other day.

Read some of it.....

Thanks femrap, I do want to finish reading it...looks quite interesting. I remember reading some articles years ago by some women who were involved in the Weathermen, Black Panthers, and other radical groups in the 60's, who talked about their experiences being marginalized by the male leaders. CAn't remember where I came across it, though.

anyway....Right now, it's nearly 2 am, .....dammit I'm such an info junkie.....dammmm this computer addiction!

[femrap]

194. The Women's Movement

started with this marginalized treatment so I guess we can thank the boyz for that. :evilgrin:

[CoffeeCat]

62. I am scared for the children of these narcissists...

If this generation is LESS empathetic than the grown adults who are parenting now--we
can expect the world to only get worse.

I'm sorry, I know that's cynical--but it truly frightens me.

I have sat in support groups for adults who were abused as children, and my only hope
was that future generations would be more caring, compassionate and empathetic. People
who are numb to their own pain and the pain of others--are more likely to abuse children.

The statistics right now are so high--and the pain that bad parenting causes is untold.

I find this incredibly frightening for our society and for the future of human beings.

[G_j]

71. you are right

but notice there are always humans who are empathetic and kind, including kids and young people. We must not forget them, for their path is not easy, probably harder than their parents, as the images etc. in our culture turn meaner. There will always be empathetic people.

[Odin2005]

78. Don't worry, this "study" is hysterical garbage.

[flvegan]

66. "exposure to violent media numbs people to the pain of others" Yeah, if you're psychotic.

If viewing/experiencing violence against others doesn't raise your level of empathy, your conscience, then there's something wrong with you.

Just my opinion.

[G_j]

72. I agree

Anyone who thinks the images that prevail in our culture, don't contribute to who we are, is not thinking.

They/we have been perfecting methods of appealing to our darker natures, repetitive images of violence, cruelty, revenge, anything for a buck.

[femrap]

122. You do realize

that a number of our soldiers come back emotionally a mess, don't you? Our MIC turns decent kids into murderers and then sticks them back into society and expects them to be OK? Once one is desensitized to violence, it's difficult to get back to 'normal.'

In Iraq, before some units go on raids, they would watch violent pron and listen to heavy metal to get ready to 'raid.'

Bullying is on the same spectrum with psychotic. Kids who bully the class nerd....will he grow out of it? The kid who sticks firecrackers up frog's butts and watches them explode (W)...does he grow out of it?

[crim son]

69. Although I'd love to blame video games for all our problems

it seems more likely that, exposed as we are to a constant flow of information concerning what misery is occuring not only in our town but all over the country and the world, that young people lacking empathy might be a form of self-defense against what often seems like meaningless, endless horror. It isn't a good thing, this narcissistic trend, but it might be inevitable.

[lonestarnot]

74. Maybe a little self-preservation.

[underseasurveyor]

73. Who cares what you think!

Or so said a certain pResident that was born in the forties. But he was raised by some haggy ogress and the ghoulish ghw bush so there ya have it. Speaking of trolls, hags and bloodsuckers, what do we know of dICKs parents? Are/were they as nasty and evil as their spawn:evilgrin:

[glitch]

76. Divide and conquer: promote hatred between races, sexes, generations, families. nt

[1776Forever]

79. Most have been raised by themselves & video games that compete to kill not win points!

How can they be "connected" to reality?

[azul]

80. A broken heart is the natural human state?

When the world is so beautiful and sad, love and compassion are the only way out of fear and madness.

[Time for change]

82. Wow, that is disturbing.

What is your opinion on the reasons for it?

And just as important, do you think that it represents a real loss of empathy over time, or could it be a manifestation of less reluctance to admit to less empathy?

[Jackpine Radical]

117. I really don't know what to make of it at this point. All I have seen are popular accounts.

The paper was presented at APS & hasn't been published anywhere, so i can't comment on the adequacy of the instrumentation, etc. However, my first thought was that the 30 years since Reagan have seen a sea-change in American values away from (at least the expression of) empathy. It's probably a combined effect of a lot of factors such as those already discussed (e.g. video games, violent TV shows; politicians, religious leaders & media people openly expressing a startling lack of compassion; exaltation of the profit motive and greed as virtues, etc. Also, with the growth of 2-income families over the period of interest, I wonder if we may not have raised a couple of generations of kids with endemic attachment disorders.

I think it would be interesting to do a content analysis of the mass media over time, looking for changes in the frequency and character of empathy-related themes. Have you ever read David McClelland's fascinating book The Achieving Society? In it he measured things like achievement-related themes in children's literature in many cultures and showed that these themes predicted measures of economic achievement in the same cultures a generation or so later. It would be interesting to see if there have been significant changes in the treatment of empathy in the last 30 years and whether, as in the case of McClelland's achievement motifs, these changes preceded the changes in measured empathy in young people.

[Time for change]

131. I haven't read McClelland's book. I'll put it on my list, thank you.

[Art_from_Ark]

88. The '70s were the "Me Decade"

The '80s were the "Yuppie Decade"

There were a lot of people who didn't give a shit about anyone else back then, too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

94. This concept of young people confuses and enrages me.

[MicaelS]

97. Not a bit suprising....

When you listen to rhetoric of many people these days. Lack of empathy and selfishness are directly related. It's all about me, me, me, my, my, my, mine, mine, mine.

When you hear phrases like:

"No one ever gave me anything."

"I don't owe anyone anything."

"My taxes are too high."

"All my taxes do is feed some bastard too lazy to work."

"You're on your own" (YOYO)

Much of Libertarian / Republican / Conservative / Tea Party / Teabagger political rhetoric essentially boils down to:

"As long as I've got mine, screw everyone else."

And race plays a factor. It's no coincidence that most Libertarians are white males, often below 30, who feel they are sooooo oppressed. In other words, they aren't automatically king of the hill because they're white, male and young, and they resent it.

[happygoluckytoyou]

98. they cannot ALL be the center..... so only one is right.... ?

[Javaman]

101. Wow, so being self centered and having a massive ego is unique to this

generation of teens.

:eyes:

How often do you tell kids to get off your lawn?

[H2O Man]

104. I read that,

and had a similar response. While I do not believe that this generation is far off from others, I do think that the lack of compassion and empathy makes our nation prone to repeat some of the horrors of the past. In fact, I think that there is a very real lack of compassion and empathy found on my favorite internet political/social web site.

Recommended.

[ismnotwasm]

105. I don't think it has a thing to do with youth

I think, If a decent cross-study could be done, you'd find this pattern scattered throughout all age groups. Older folk might lie about it though. A culture of meanness *is* out there but it has far more to do with rw political influence, the rush limbaugh's and the sarah palin's of the world. Talk radio, reality TV-- where being shitty has been raised to an art form.

I believe youth are no less empathetic, but far more self-protective given the particular brand of the politics of fear we have today. They're savvy and a bit cynical, those questions sound a bit dumb if they are phrased the way they are. I wonder if they modernized the language at all?

And they are becoming more and more tolerant in many areas. There was a thread the other day about a discussion with little kids about partner choice. The OP was justifiably proud that the kids enthusiastically accepted the idea of same-sex marriage. My 11 year old grandson is the same way "who cares if they're Gay' he says. Racism and sexism, while prevalent, isn't as prevalent in healthy youth, or rather a young racist say, looks like a sick fuck rather than just another of the crowd--the majority in fact. Young women, even those who don't identify with 'feminism' --or think they don't-- are starting to emerge strong and proud.

They are doing this in a society still in major flux.

Youth drives change, and youth only gives the impression that it doesn't care sometimes. I've always felt that that inward turning is necessary for individuation and for forming opinions for future decision making.

[unpossibles]

108. as a gen Xer with friends spanning at least three generations, I call BS on this

I do agree that there is more narcissism in many ways and not relegated to one generation, but I also think there is more empathy toward people who are "different" - most of my younger friends are pretty accepting of gender, sexuality, race/culture, etc. and tend to have actual friends from a variety of spectra. In other words, while the cynic in me can somewhat agree with the premise, the optimist in me (and my experience) says otherwise. And yes, I truly do feel that every generation for who-knows-how-long thinks the following generation is out of control and the previous one to be stuck in the past, and that each generation really does change from the prior because of exposure to more aspects of humanity/the world.

Semi-related, this is a great video on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g&

[matt819]

109. Only time will tell

But look at the people who truly fucked up this country in the past ten years. All pre-Baby Boomer age.

[tranche]

111. Boomers grumble about the youth as they gobble up all the resources.

Fucking sick if you ask me. To watch boomers' concern about the empathy of our youth as their fattened bodies settle into retirement at 90% wages they knew full well couldn't be paid for is really rich.

[femrap]

127. Ah....

the poster dives into the 'Divide and Conquer' of youth v. boomer. You'll be happy to support Obama's demise of Social Security then? And when the poor seniors are homeless and hungry, will you be one of those that kicks them while they sleep on the grates?

Many of the boomers (former hippies) cared for the environment for years. Hard to fight the multi-nationals but I recycle newspapers, mags, glass, tin, aluminum, and cardboard. Keep the thermostat at 66 in the winter and 78 in the summer. I drive a car that gets over 30 mpg. I don't buy from China. I use Thrift Stores. My grandparents lived through the Depression and impressed on me not to be wasteful nor to care about the damn Joneses next door.

Most of the boomers will have to work well past 65.

You may not see it now....but this is The Greater Depression. And you can thank your multi-national CORPORATIONS for that...not the boomers. However the Corporations are happy that you are spewing your hatred toward the old folks and not at them. They set the trap and you fall in...hook, line and sinker.

Boomer's wages have been stagnant since the 1970's and we have paid into SS for our entire lives. I doubt if I'll ever see a dime of my money.

Better check your own empathy level....:shrug:

[abelenkpe]

112. It's odd

We have many young generation Y kids at our work. Here's what I notice: They are incredibly well educated, eager to to work, polite and talented. They are aware that it is a tough job market and grateful to have work vs older workers who bitch about losing benefits and stagnating wages (myself included.)

That said maybe it's my work? Everyone there is quite talented so it's not a pool of average folks. And I do believe that violent video games do numb people to the experiences of others. Personally I dislike and avoid them and would never buy them for my own kids. Honestly I'm not sure why it's OK to even market games where people beat the crap out of one another, steal or kill. It's abhorrent behavior and should not be encouraged even for entertainment's sake. It's not entertaining. But maybe that's just me?

[GoCubsGo]

204. I have noticed the same thing

For the past three summers, I have worked with kids who in their early 20's. Every last one of them has been hard-working, enthusiastic, polite, and all-around good, caring people. The job we're doing is tough. I know a lot of "adults" who wouldn't last an hour at it. Yet these kids stick it out.

The same goes for the kids next door. The younger one just graduated from high school last night. He's starting his nursing degree this fall. I am sure there are lots of kids that fit the description in the OP. I haven't really encountered any of them. Of course, I have yet to meet some of my niece's friends...

[The Hope Mobile]

114. I think leadership, to some degree, sets the tone. Bush came in

with a bully mentality as did the whole neo-con gang and it was obvious to all around that they were very Machiavellian. It rubbed off . . . and now we're in difficult financial times which also creates an atmosphere of looking out for yourself to some degree. I think this could be swayed back in the other direction when the toll of not being a global community and working together starts catching up.
Just a thought but I've thought this for some time. The whole country had to shift thinking a bit when we decided that it was OK for the Supreme Court to steal an election. The world became more obviously corrupt and dog eat dog.

[Recursion]

119. They know the rightward lurch of the US was a big "F**k you, you're on your own" to them...

...made by the older generation that enjoyed the benefits of social democracy.

They learned their lesson well.

[LanternWaste]

124. Madison Avenue marketed a very Trendy Cynicism©...

Madison Avenue marketed a very Trendy Cynicism© to a specific demographic over the past twenty years, and many people bought into it without a second thought, wear the complimentary t-shirt to the score of the X-Files, and roll their eyes at kindness.

[skeptical cynic]

125. Boomers, Generation X, Millenials...

Human nature doesn't change, cultures and circumstances change.

Reactivate conscription (the draft) and you'd see Millenials becoming "empathetic" pretty quick.

Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Industrial Age, Space Age or Information Age--people are people--they all like to think they are different.

[old mark]

143. Amen.....nt

[Wizard777]

126. Bush set us back to the 60's. Of course we'll have to endure the ME Generation of the 70's again.

[GinaMaria]

132. It's that race to the right that fosters this

There are probably some my age who are less empathetic than they were 20 or 30 years ago. I'm not sure it's isolated to one generation. Just my 2 (sad) cents

[Echo In Light]

138. The "race to the right" that strategically *isn't* accurately identified as such within mainstream

... discourse. That tactic alone has helped the rightward shift get a truly perverse degree of cultural mileage. Instead of being identified and labeled accordingly, the nuts n bolts of that shift have come to be unquestioningly perceived as simply normal, a given, expected, the Right thing to do, logical, reasonable, etc. All because a large enough % won't bother to fight against the current.

[Shadow Creature]

133. Not just in the US either

This is all over the place in Europe too, I have read about this same phenomenon from the UK and Spain and Italy.

I guess the self-esteem movement went way too far.

[Svafa]

135. So much hypocrisy here at DU

If someone says something derogatory about older generations they're labeled as ageist, yet many here at DU have no problem making generalizations and maligning younger people. Ageism cuts both ways.

[izzybeans]

140. Interestingly studies of ageism show a much more negative view

of young adults than older ones. The idea that ageism applies only to older adults has been debunked.

Every generation is labeled as lazy, evil, incompetent, slovenly, etc when they are young. It's not really a rite of passage where all of the sudden when we are old, we say "I'm gonna give them youngin's hell." It is a cultural disconnect between older and younger people as they are cycling through different birth cohorts in time.

[defendandprotect]

145. Agree . . . and this is a pattern of the establishment . . . from "juvenile delinquents" to

other campaigns against youth --

Youth is where rebellion begins -- and the establishment is always heading that off, IMO.

Meanwhile, despite all the "incidents" we have heard about, last time I checked the young

are still a much more peaceful age than adults!

Adulthood is where the violence/crimes are --

Yet, the right wing constantly campaigns to turn our youth into something to be feared!!!

[libodem]

137. Sure

We need a new generation of torturers and prison guards for the next time a republican becomes president. :sarcasm:

That is sarcasm because the whole thing actually bothers me very much.

[izzybeans]

139. Psychobabble. Meanwhile, that same generation leads the charge in civic voluntarism.

Studies like this are why I ditched Psychology for Sociology in grad school.

http://www.volunteeringinamerica.gov/assets/resources/VolunteeringInAmericaResearchHighlights.pdf

snip-

About 8.24 million young people ages 16-24 volunteered in 2008, over 441,000 more than in 2007.
This increase in young adult volunteers makes up almost half of the overall increase in the number of volunteers nationally. The volunteer rate for this group increased significantly from 20.8 percent in 2007 to 21.9 percent in 2008. The interest among young people in volunteering coincides with their reported increase in the belief that it is essential or very important to help other people in need. The Higher Education Research Institute studies the attitudes of first-year college students each year and reported that in 2008, 69.7 percent of students held this belief in 2008—the highest rate since 1970.3

[defendandprotect]

147. K&R that post!!

[Juche]

142. That study is based on one test with 15 vague questions

Either way, millennials volunteer more than previous generations.

http://ndn.org/blog/2009/08/millennials-lead-nation-service-our-country

The trend toward increasing volunteerism is likely to continue. The percentage of college freshmen believing that it is "essential or very important to help people in need" rose to its highest level since 1970 (70%) when the last of the idealistic Baby Boomers entered college. Between that year and this, America experienced a generation long withdrawal from community life. Generation X, the generation between the Boomers and Millennials, led by the pronouncement by its political hero, Ronald Reagan, that "government was the problem, not the solution" focused more on the individual economic success of its members than on civic life.

http://www.tacticalphilanthropy.com/2008/04/millennials-as-social-citizens

USA Today reports that they volunteer more than any previous generation and the Wall Street Journal reports today that corporations are finding that one of the best ways to attract them as employees is to offer them paid time off to volunteer

[Telly Savalas]

174. The OP wasn't clear on why the implications were scary.

Perhaps the feeling is that it's scary that public funding is used support pseudo-scientific hogwash that is blindly accepted by folks looking for any reason to express ill will towards the younger generation. I think that's kind of scary.

[defendandprotect]

144. Our colleges/universities have been corporatized and militarized . . .

but I agree that certainly young people have been subjected to right wing propaganda intended

to create visions of a violent America -- and fear of one's fellow citizens.

I'd also point to past -- and increasing now -- efforts to recreate a return to macho thinking --

with these two wars also helping in that regard, spreading its very aggressiveness and

violence into our culture.

[izquierdista]

148. Violent media numbs people to the pain of others

Here's one:
And another insensitive bastard:
And someone who mocks little girls:
I don't know how they got the idea to tell people to "Go Fuck Yourself" :

[CrispyQ]

151. I believe lack of empathy is more cultural than generational.

American culture worships 'rugged individualism' over the community, at all costs. This has contributed greatly to cultural lack of empathy in all generations. Go to any teabagger event & you will see that there are plenty of mean-spirited, nasty pricks in the 50+ crowd.

If more younger people truly are less empathetic, could it be because they were born into a culture that has lacked empathy from the beginning of their lives? They've never lived in a culture that encouraged or promoted community.

[happyslug]

153. Could this be affected by the DRAFT? Women now are over 50% of Collage students?

People forget the while the draft ended in 1972, people drafted where getting the original GI Bill benefits for years afterwards. Today, the tendency is to go to Collage right after High School. While that was a factor in the 1970s, you still had people who had skipped a few years between. Thus the people in Collage in the 1970s, that were subject these questions, may have been older and as such had a wider view of the world then people right out of High School (Yes, technically today's average collage student is older then he or she was in the 1970s, but most of the aging is the result of new night and weekend classes NOT regular day time students).

Just a comment that the pool of students may be different then the same pool in the 1970s. One factor is the draft, which delayed people entering collage by 3-4 years. After the draft many people opt for the GI Bill when their enlisted (The Original GI Bill applied to people who enlisted as late as the mid 1970s). Such people would have been exposed to a broader range of people, especially in the Military then today's collage students.

Another factor, is that in the 1990s the number of people in the Military dropped drastically, with the Military trying to retain more people then it did previously (One of the result of the end of the Cold War was the need for troops dropped drastically, we are spending as much on the Military today as we did during the Cold War, but with only 2/3 to 1/2 of the personnel). This also means there are less people going from High School to something else then after a few years to collage. Thus the results may just be the fact that the average age of a Collage student, after trying to make sure the same pool of students was used in both surveys, are lower today and have less exposures to others may be the cause of the change instead of anything real (i.e. the pool of students are different, thus different results).

One last comment, Women were still in the Minority on Collage campuses in the 1970s, that has changed, women are now the majority. This would also change the pool for women tend to answer questions differently then men and as such also change the results. While the common perception is women tend to be more "Caring" then men, that can affect the results two different ways. First women being more "Caring" may grade themselves HARSHER on a question relating to caring then does a male (i.e. when answering "I often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me." women may view themselves less tender then a man answering the same question, but in actual practice be more tender, this would result in harsher answers then from males. The other error is women women may want to present themselves as "Tougher" then the males they are dealing with and thus report they are "less tender" even when they are not, either way this is an error in the results of the test).

Side note: when I used the term "error" I am referring to the study itself NOT what the people who answered the questions. I am addressing Errors that can explain the difference and as such showing that they is no change, the difference is the result of errors in the study itself. The difference in age and the Change in Sex Ratios are possible source of errors, and each may be compounding the other making the error worse.

[Odin2005]

163. Interesting analysis! Thanks!

:)

[SkyDaddy7]

155. American Christianity, Talk Radio/FOX News and...

basically the Era of Reagan have been very successful in shaping the minds of most Americans over the past 30 years...This is the obvious generation such delusions produce!.

NOT SURPRISED!

[Geek_Girl]

161. I wonder if it has to do with college kids these days mostly come from affluent families

or middle class to upper middle class. Many of them never experienced any financial hardship. My parents were middle class but barely making it. After they divorced we pretty much lived on the poverty line. We lived pay check to pay check and I even tried government cheese once.

Most of my classmates were in the same boat. It seems like many college kids these days come from upper middle class and always had a frig full of food, nice cloths and nice toys growing up. It's hard for them to relate to those less fortunate because they've never experienced any hardship themselves.

[hedgehog]

164. Two points:

1. I took the exam and ended up being described as un-empathetic, to which i say

.
:wtf:


2. Maybe today's students are just bad at reading comprehension and didn't understand the questions.

[BrklynLiberal]

165. Pretty interesting..but based on those I have met..not surprising.

[TexasObserver]

166. The widespread acceptance of bullying is evidence of this trend.

This penchant for groups of kids to launch bullying against weaker students is largely a phenomenon of the past 15 years. Lack of empathy is the root cause of such heinous groups behaviors.

[Warren DeMontague]

175. "largely a phenomenon of the past 15 years" - that's insane. Bullying was awful when I was a kid

in the 70s and early 80s. Awful. Absolutely awful.

The big difference I see between then and now, even though you seem to still have the same tone-deaf school administrators who don't get it- is that now it's actually talked about openly and acknowledged as a problem; instead of just "kids being kids", "toughening each other up".

[Cleita]

176. Back in the 70's we still had the draft.

I wouldn't mind bringing it back if we were in peace time. There was nothing like the military to shape up asshole teenagers and make men out of them. I would include the girls this time though.

[DonCoquixote]

188. Gah! are you f'n serious?

The Military ALREADY has too much influence on our culture! You want to make it mandatory. Great, that why we can be another Israel!

[Cleita]

199. Paradoxically, when we had the draft, the military had less influence

because ordinary people were introduced into military culture and kept it in check. I really am for a citizen's militia rather than a military of professional killers.

[DonCoquixote]

200. If you think that would work

You over-estimate common sense. The last thing we need is for more people to have Military style traning, because they will tend to take that knowledge and use it to commit crimes. We need a smaller military, period.

[Cleita]

201. I agree with the smaller military, but it does work. Switzerland is an example.

They never fell to the Nazis in WWII because the Nazis couldn't penetrate their citizen's militia, who bottled up every pass in the mountains that the German army could possibly break through. Also, they remained neutral so they weren't involved in the war. None of the citizen militia were willing to go to war unless they had to do it in self defense.

[TK421]

180. Gen X, Gen Y, Millennials...who the fuck even comes up with these fucking labels?

[MellowDem]

183. It's bullshit....

you wanna see narcissism, just looked who voted for the narcissist Party in the last election by age. Yep, the oldies. You blame it on us young ones, but YOU'RE THE NARCISSISTS! Look in the mirror. Look at the Tea Party. Look at volunteer numbers by age. Or look at these bullshit studies.

:puke:

Of course, no "generation", which are bullshit, made-up labels, much like race, has the corner on narcissism. But it's a great way to divide people.

[clyrc]

189. Adults have to teach children what is important, even emotionally

My parents taught me to be compassionate, and I have tried to teach my daughters that it is important to be compassionate, too.

[entanglement]

202. While I'm not a professional in this area, the survey itself seems to be full of vague questions

I wouldn't let it bother me so much.