Illegal Immigration Solutions that would work better

[SargeUNN]

I have interviewed people who have spent decades in this, who are affected by this, and strangely enough they have some real workable answers but can't get them to be heard.

I have stated over and over the first step is to learn about the people affected. I have stated more than once the breakdown so I won't do so again, but knowing this helps formulate a workable plan. Sadly most have no clue of the people and are content with stereotyping and lumping all in the same group.

Secondly, to understand the problems of how immigration processes works now will shine light on the fact even those who came here on visas have had those visas expire while trying to work to get them renewed, and spending money to do so. It is a time consuming process and often goes beyond the date of expiration.

Thirdly, how about passing the Dream Act which would not only bring the law abiding and intelligent ones in the social stream, but would increase our progress as a society with their abilities and intelligence.

Fourthly, set up a process where an acceptable method of working toward citizenship for those law abiding people can stay here and work toward citizenship in a way that would be reasonable and would actually take away several problems law enforcement have to live with. Law Enforcement would be better able to communicate with these people and it would help them going after those who are here to commit crimes. It would also get rid of such grandstanding as Arpaio does. Also it would not harrass those who are Latino but born in this country or gained citizenship through legal paths.

I realize this is not all that can be done, but I certainly think it would be a huge start. Sadly, I think the issues are too political and too many are set in their stance to even try to be rational, but hopefully one day we will get smart and start resolving issues like this with logical and educated thought.

[Cleita]

1. But we aren't going to get anything that makes sense.

We got HCR that the insurance companies wanted and finance reform that benefits the banks and Wall Street. What makes you think we will get any immigration reform other than what would benefit the employers who screw and take advantage of these people? I heard a farmer on the local news actually state that legalizing the farm workers would bring up the price of produce.

[SargeUNN]

2. this is why I added this

"Sadly, I think the issues are too political and too many are set in their stance to even try to be rational, but hopefully one day we will get smart and start resolving issues like this with logical and educated thought."

I can see examples of this on the internet as I post to try to get people more informed and usually my post sink into the back pages. I honestly don't think people want to hear it because they have made up their minds and don't want to be bothered by information that doesn't support their view or makes them think more in depth.

edited to add this: I also expect this thread to stay at zero rec since a certain amount of people will unrec this thread. It is doubtful that those who will rec it will be enough to overcome those who will automatically unrec it just because they will assume that it is saying something they generalize such as "open borders" or automatic citizenship, or some other generalization to any post that they see and don't read, but just react.

[Cant trust em]

3. I think step 2 is critical.

I get the feeling that many anti-immigration people think that the system is still like Ellis Island in the 20’s. They think that people still can just hop off the boat, sign a few pieces of paper and become a citizen.

The current system is a maze. A really expensive maze.

I bet that many people would be willing to get on board with reform if we could streamline the process and make it easier to immigrate legally.

[SargeUNN]

6. Correct

and I have interviewed many who came here legally, tried to get their visa renewed, spent a good amount of money on lawyers to get them renewed but still the visa expired. I interviewed a young woman who has been here since age 2 and was brought to this country, and when I asked why she didn't get citizenship she replied because I can't. She went on to tell me if she applied she would be sent to a country she doesn't know and be unable to apply for 10 years for U.S. Citizenship simply because she had been here. After the 10 years she would still have her time here count against her. She was, last time I talked to her, the student with the highest GPA ever in the School she was in at Arizona State University, never had so much as a minor offense. Most don't know this fact, but I am finding out that most don't want to know or care. That is why threads like this disappear so fast and get few views.

[EFerrari]

4. First we have to end our occupation of Latin America

and allow people to live their lives in their own homes as they would like to live.

It's not rocket science.

[readmoreoften]

5. +1.

I love all these complicated centrist answers. How about lets end NAFTA for a start?

[SargeUNN]

8. NAFTA is a big problem

It really does create more problems as well, and should be revisited.

[Cant trust em]

9. Ending our involvement in Latin America sounds pretty complicated to me. nt

[SargeUNN]

7. certainly that would be a big step

however we also need to address those here in this country now and do it properly. Like the young woman mentioned above, this is her country as far as she knows but she isn't able to be a part of it due to the current penalities, and the stereotyping going on.

[EFerrari]

10. Absolutely. Those young people are caught in the middle

of a wholly dysfunctional system.

[Caliman73]

11. That is step 1.

People will not stop coming here if their countries are hell holes due to the desire of our corporations and people for cheap products and profits. Give people the opportunity for a decent (not extravagant) life and they will not want to leave the society in which they feel comfortable.

[SargeUNN]

12. yes but we still have those here so

what do you do with them? You have those who are like the young woman I mentioned above, what do you do with her? She isn't the only one I have interviewed either, but have talked with a couple of these students in Austin Tx. We need to pass the Dream Act and pass it NOW.

[SargeUNN]

13. I see I am still correct

I stated this type discussion has a very short life. Well when I posted this, which moved it off the second page back to the first, there had been less than 160 views, and we wonder why we have such a divisive topic, well this why.

[EFerrari]

17. People like to vent more than they like to work a problem, that's for sure.

And there is a great deal of resistance/hostility/something towards the Dream Act -- in the same way people resist knowing that there are large, vibrant Latino communities all over this country. If it won't go back to Mexico (whether it's from Mexico or not), they don't seem to want anything to do with it.

You never know, though, who is reading your posts and what they are doing with the information. Sometimes the seed spouts and you never hear about it so you can't go by the feedback you get.

[frylock]

14. knr..

still the recs are at zero. people really don't give a shit. it's just so much easier to hate on mexicans than it is to agree upon a workable solution.

[SargeUNN]

15. regardless of side I am beginning to think

I have worked hard to try and be a voice for this, spent my time and what little money I have to be able to get informed and help others be informed, but I am beginning to think I am wasting my time. I think we are too comfortable to have the you are a racist and I hate you debate while the ones we claim to be for suffer. I saw the same thing in Jim Crow and watched as the sides demonized the other with the black people getting hurt from lack of real work. I fear had JFK not been murdered that little would have been done for a longer time if anything was ever done. Sometimes just being correct on an issue isn't enough and looks like we won't ever understand it takes learning, working to educate others and being interested to a greater level that overcomes such problems. I am seriously evaluating if I want to continue taking the risk of putting my neck out there and knowing that the Governor knows of me and just one thing that draws too much attention to my efforts will likely result in the same threat on my life as I experienced after Katrina from Barbour and his rich corporate pals. I was proud of my standing up back then and felt I had support from the progressive community, but honestly I no longer feel that way as strongly. I am really tired of being out there on the limb and wondering what progressives are going to come along and help the right wing saw off that limb. I see people get mad at me over some assumption they don't even know and not talk to me and when proven they were incorrect they still refused to even talk to me. It is a lonely life full of threats and possible violence. I just don't know if it is worth continuing when so few really seem to care. Sorry, but I have become very jaded.

[UTUSN]

16. The problem is with the generalities. Here are specifics:

We are going to be SPINNING OUR WHEELS yapping about "immigration" for years to come. The blowhards follow one another, one right after the other, giving their If-I-were-King-of-the-world dictums: "They have to learn English. They have to pay a fine. They have to go back to Mexico. They have to go to the end of the line." And on and on. Hoops and more hoops to jump through, with the usual Lucy-snatching-the-football-away always a probability. The real problem on both sides is IMMEDIACY: Business owners and managers want/need cheap labor NOW. The laborers want/need money and food NOW. And BOTH of them are willing to break laws to get what they want NOW.

We in this country have to face some ugly truths about ourselves here: It's all a matter of good old American capitalistic Suppy and Demand:: If the U.S. didn't DEMAND drugs and if the U.S. didn't DEMAND cheap labor, they WOULDN'T BE HERE. Only slightly tangentially, on to the military-industrial complex, if the U.S.'s business were not the manufacture and sale of arms, a certain amount of conflict in the world would be lessened, or as they say it another way, "The U.S.'s business is to manufacture and sell arms, then they get all upset when shooting breaks out."

But we yak and yak, ignorant of history and past solutions (like guest worker programs) and blind by choice, DENIAL, of unpleasant realities: We DENY that "illegals do the work Americans won't do," whereas anybody has known or heard somebody say, "I wouldn't take that job for less than $15 an hour," or said it ourselves. And as for cheap labor, what do we think OUTSOURCING by big businesses is all about? No, blame NAFTA. Deny. Resume the yakking.

SOLUTIONS:

* Labor: In the '60s there was a guest worker program. They applied/enlisted/registered, entered to live and work in an orderly manner, and went home and returned the next season. No, most Americans will NOT do stoop labor and other menial jobs, admit it, certainly not at the wages offered.

* Drugs: The U.S. needs to sink the cash into rehab and preventative education programs----or else LEGALIZE the damned stuff and get it all regulated and taxed. In Mexico, the peons do NOT use pot recreationally. They know it is a pain management tool, "When a woman gives birth or a man breaks a limb..."

* Crime: If AZ, or wherever, is infested with drop houses, shootings, kidnappings, dangerous dog neighborhoods-----------arrest THOSE perpetrators aggressively. If they happen to be undocumented, found out AFTER the crime arrest, then deport THOSE. Not a fakey gimmick that goes after everybody (notice the "immediacy" angle).