Do you another reason why Iraqis kill each other?

[Dangerman]

Picture this. If you're in Nazi-occupied France back in WWII and you're with the French resistance, and you found out that one of your countrymen is working with the Nazis, you would blow that guy's head off.

It is same thing that happening in Iraq. If an Iraqi works with the US occupational forces, he may betray this fellow countrymen and he's a dead man.

That's my theory. Do you agree?

[bryant69]

1. Yes God bless those Noble Iraqi insurgants

Let's bend over backwards to excuse their murders and bombings.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. LOL

[angstlessk]

4. Honey, if china invaded America I DO hope you will be among the

insurgents and not run to the eye doc to get your eyes slanted?

[bryant69]

6. If China invaded America I wouldn't take that as my signal

to start offing Presbyterians. Or Republicans.

I think I would focus on the Chinese.

Bryant

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. How about the Chinese collaborators?

[bryant69]

9. When you drop a bomb in a mosque or in a public area

well, you can't be sure everybody there is a collaborator can you?

But then again maybe those are these "acceptable losses" I keep hearing about.

Bryant

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. What if it's a public area frequented by collaborators?

"But then again maybe those are these "acceptable losses" I keep hearing about."

It's called "collateral damage" when americans kill a bunch of innocent people.

[bryant69]

11. How many innocents would you kill to get a collaborator?

As for your last comment, I suppose I once again have to explain that the fact that I criticize the Murderous thugs in the insurgency does not mean that I support the murderous thugs on the American's side. In fact I'm down on all murderous thugs no matter which side they are on.

Bryant

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. I don't know.

How many would you kill to fight Chinese invaders?

[bryant69]

13. Innocents? I would hope that I wouldn't kill any

I certainly wouldn't plant bombs in an attempt to ratchet up the body count.

Bryant

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. I'm sure the insurgents hope they don't kill any either.

:shrug:

[bryant69]

15. Honestly, do you really believe that?

I mean I don't think all insurgents are murderous thugs; I'm sure a certain percentage of them are the freedom fighters you suppose them to be. But when you put a bomb in a mosque . . . well, what do you expect to happen?

Bryant

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. I think they're the moral equivalent of the U.S. troops.

Or you, if the Chinese invaded.

They think they're the good guys, and they're trying to destroy the bad guys, and they hope they don't kill innocent people along the way.

"But when you put a bomb in a mosque . . . well, what do you expect to happen? "

The same thing that happens when the Americans fire shells into a mosque.

[bryant69]

21. Hmmm

The most lethal of the attacks against Iraqis was at a sprawling fruit and vegetable market in southwest Baghdad in the Baya neighborhood, which has been a frequent target of insurgents.

A suicide bomber blew up his truck there during the height of the morning rush, killing at least 35 people and wounding more than 80, according to the Interior Ministry.

Precise fatality numbers were unclear since officials at Yarmouk Hospital said they counted 52 dead from the bomb, and the United States military put the number at 30.

The bomb detonated at the junction of two major streets in Baya, a middle-class neighborhood. One of the streets had bus stops on either side of the road where minibuses drop off and collect people who work and shop in the market.
”

Happened yesterday (near as I can tell) --> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/07/world/middleeast/07iraq.html?_r=1&ref=middleeast&oref=slogin

I do kind of hope that if the Chinese invaded I wouldn't be doing this kind of thing.

Bryant

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Well, if it makes you feel any better...

no. I don't think you would.

[NNN0LHI]

23. Hope you wouldn't do this kind of thing? What if you had no choice?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/26/iraq.bombers.force

Some Iraq suicide bombers 'forced'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. has evidence that some suicide bombers in Iraq may have been forced against their will to carry out attack missions.

A military official with the U.S. Central Command tells CNN that in one case after an attack, troops found a body with a foot tied with a rope inside a vehicle.

The official says there also is evidence of some individuals having their entire family held by extremists who then force them into suicide car bomb attacks.

ABC News reported the U.S. claims in an interview aired Friday.

In some attacks, suspected bombers have run from their cars and come to U.S. forces, officials said.

In other cases, mentioned by the official, extremists with remote detonators have followed drivers to set off car bombs.

[bryant69]

24. Well I have no family and no friends, so that situation is unlikely to come up

But obviously you are kind of undercutting Bornagainhooligans argument that the Insurgents are noble folk we should be supporting. I mean really, are people like this the people you want to be supporting? Forcing people to commit suicide attacks?

Bryant

[NNN0LHI]

29. That would be the case if I thought "insurgents" were doing the forcing

I more suspect it is guys like Chalabi and his thugs who are on the Bush payroll and living in the Green Zone who are the ones doing the forcing.

No family or friends?

Consider me your friend.

Don

[bryant69]

31. I don't really want any friends either so it all works out.

Ah. You have any evidence of this assertion?

Bryant

[NNN0LHI]

32. My assertion is based upon common sense

Every time the US declares a curfew people start getting blown up and tortured to death.

Now who exactly would be out and about during a curfew imposed by tens of thousands of American soldiers do you think?

People with the correct paperwork and uniforms. Thats who.

Don


http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=HPIA,HPIA:2006-34,HPIA:en&q=iraq%2bdressed+in+police+uniforms

Results 1 - 10 of about 676,000 for iraq+dressed in police uniforms. (0.26 seconds)

In Brazen Roundup, 56 Vanish From Baghdad - washingtonpost.comBut Shamaa walked on, right into a swift, coordinated operation unfolding within sight of Iraq's Ministry of Justice. Gunmen in police uniforms and ski ...
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Schneier on Security: New Harder-to-Counterfeit Iraqi Police UniformsOr when gunmen dressed in police uniforms execute the brother of Iraqi Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi. Posted on October 11, 2006 at 12:28 PM ...
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Dozens kidnapped at Iraq Red Crescent - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.comGunmen in Iraqi army uniforms staged a mass kidnapping on Sunday at the office of the Iraqi Red Crescent in downtown Baghdad, police said.
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[Igel]

25. But that just moves the hate one level back, doesn't it?

The person doing the killing is just a pawn by those who want civilians dead. *Those* have a choice, and they've decided that a dead Shi'ite is a Shi'ite they can tolerate.

Damned communalism.

[NNN0LHI]

30. Damned communalism?

Nope. Damned colonialism.

Don

[NNN0LHI]

16. Why would Bush put a guy in charge of Iraq who's specialty was planting bombs? Any ideas?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0609-02.htm

Ex-C.I.A. Aides Say Iraq Leader Helped Agency in 90's Attacks

by Joel Brinkley

WASHINGTON, June 8 — Iyad Allawi, now the designated prime minister of Iraq, ran an exile organization intent on deposing Saddam Hussein that sent agents into Baghdad in the early 1990's to plant bombs and sabotage government facilities under the direction of the C.I.A., several former intelligence officials say.

Dr. Allawi's group, the Iraqi National Accord, used car bombs and other explosive devices smuggled into Baghdad from northern Iraq, the officials said. Evaluations of the effectiveness of the bombing campaign varied, although the former officials interviewed agreed that it never threatened Saddam Hussein's rule.

No public records of the bombing campaign exist, and the former officials said their recollections were in many cases sketchy, and in some cases contradictory. They could not even recall exactly when it occurred, though the interviews made it clear it was between 1992 and 1995.

The Iraqi government at the time claimed that the bombs, including one it said exploded in a movie theater, resulted in many civilian casualties. But whether the bombings actually killed any civilians could not be confirmed because, as a former C.I.A. official said, the United States had no significant intelligence sources in Iraq then. snip

When Dr. Allawi was picked as interim prime minister last week, he said his first priority would be to improve the security situation by stopping bombings and other insurgent attacks in Iraq — an idea several former officials familiar with his past said they found "ironic."

"Send a thief to catch a thief," said Kenneth Pollack, who was an Iran-Iraq military analyst for the C.I.A. during the early 1990's and recalled the sabotage campaign.

Dr. Allawi declined to respond to repeated requests for comment, made Monday and Tuesday through his Washington representative, Patrick N. Theros. The former intelligence officials, while confirming C.I.A. involvement in the bombing campaign, would not say how, exactly, the agency had supported it.

[bryant69]

17. I'm sure it was so he could plant a lot of bombs kill innocents

and blame the "insurgents." I mean what other logical conclusion could one draw?

Bryant

[NNN0LHI]

19. Don't have a good answer why he was blowing up innocents for the CIA, huh?

Didn't think so.

Don

[bryant69]

20. Ah - i see I'm sorry I missed the connection

Naturally you assumed that since I am criticizing the Iraqi Insurgency for killing innocents, I must be a Bushbot. In fact, it doesn't surprise me that Bush, being a bit of a murderous thug himself, put someone like that in charge in Iraq. But again, I deplore the use of explosives to make a political point whether we do it or whether "they" do it.

Just so we are clear.

[pampango]

28. Don't agree with "acceptable losses" or "collateral damage".

I prefer the targeted assassinations that the French resistance used against the Germans and their collaborators. Their anger was very targeted; not based on killing enough civilians to drive out the enemy by making them appear inept at protecting the populace. (Not that that strategy would have worked against the Germans anyway. I don't think they worried too much about domestic or international public opinion.)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. I suspect this is the major source of the violence.

Notice it's always the Iraqi "police" being targeted.

[NNN0LHI]

5. Actually we have no idea of who is killing who over there

All the "news" we get comes from government sources. And our government can't be trusted.

Pity.

Don

[MADem]

8. How about "Once upon a time, I was a ruling Ba'athist and had everything.

Now, I'm a minority and have nothing. Let me shoot the bastards who are to blame for my lot."

Or how about this?

"Once upon a time I was a persecuted Shi'a. There's the baaastid that killed my father living over there. Let me grab my AK and take care of some family business."

Or this:

"Jesus--we can't be letting those Kurds get too big for their britches. Hell, the Kurds in OUR country will start getting ideas--we need to go blow up their (fill in name of whatever--village, pipeline, power plant, road, bridge, important person) to knock them back a notch or three."

Or this:

"Hey, no one knows who the fuck anyone is anymore! Let me slip over the border from (name yer country; they've plenty that border Iraq), blow some shit up, to include (pick one: Sunnis/Shi'as/Americans/Kurds/authority figures of all stripes) and slip back home before the weekend's out!"

It's a civil war. All sides, including outside actors, want that WIN. They don't give a shit about anyone save themselves, and they aren't all acting from positions of virtue. They just want their team to take it all, and the opposition to croak.

And stupid us, we have no CLUE who's who in that fucked up zoo.

[shenmue]

26. "Do you another reason?"

The headline doesn't make sense, and the rest of the post isn't much better.

[Dangerman]

36. I meant to say

"Do you KNOW another reason why Iraqis kill each other"

Sorry for the mistype.

[Igel]

27. No, I don't agree.

In some cases, yes.

In other cases, people really want the "polytheists" dead--and that can be everything from pagan Yazidi to Shi'ites. If you want to wrap it up with issues of power, fine; just don't make it that one dimensional, however.

In other cases, they want their stuff. Simple criminality.

In other cases, there's a bit of a turf war: ASC versus ISI.

In other cases, it's simple revenge for clan, tribe, or personal honor. Let's not forget to include religion as a kind of clan.

In yet other cases, it's the "oppressed" making sure that they're never oppressed again.

And, since communalism is very high on Iraq's list of cultural "goods", it means anybody's good for satisfying sick, personal needs.

[nealmhughes]

33. After the head shaving and public ritual humiliations were over in France in 44,

everyone left became a member post bellum of the Resistance, or so it appears.

I have wondered, although quietly until now, if people aren't willing to take the much more than ritual humiliation currently doled out by the militias in Iraq and at least give "I see nothing, I hear nothing, I know nothing" to the US when faced with having a chance to thwart something or another.

Few people can bear the title of "Collaborator" in a political sense, until the tide has turned enough to allow them to be "equal partners" with the former occupiers.

Iraq's ethnic/tribal/religious divisions only throw gasoline on the fire: who is a traitor? A traitor to whom? One's family, one's clan? One's state? One's religion? Too many damned labels to sort out, that is the problem with a cobbled together state whose unity was largely imaginary or at bayonette point.

[damntexdem]

34. No, it's more like if you're in American-occupied Iraq and find out that ...

your countryman is working with the Americans, or the Sunnis, or the Shia, or the Kurds, or the Turkomen, or the Yazidis, or a rival militia within your sect, or the family with which your family has a feud, ...
then you would blow him up along with 20 bystanders. It's the "Shock and Awe" Resistance. It's what has been unleashed not just by a murderous illegal invasion but also by an incompetent occupation.

[stray cat]

35. Shites and sunnis killing each other seems to be predominant

and killing kids is always an honorable approach as well