Kennedy holds to hope in 5-4 ruling

[IScreamSundays]

Source: USAToday


By Joan Biskupic, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — During Supreme Court arguments last November, Justice Anthony Kennedy peered down from the bench and expressed skepticism for a lawyer's claim that juvenile offenders — unlike adult criminals — should not be locked up with no chance of parole, no hope of release.
"Why does a juvenile have a constitutional right to hope, but an adult does not?" Kennedy asked.

Yet, in his groundbreaking opinion for the court Monday, Kennedy referred to the importance of hope.

"Life in prison without the possibility of parole gives no chance for fulfillment outside prison walls, no chance for reconciliation with society, no hope," Kennedy wrote in the opinion finding such sentences unconstitutionally disproportionate to juvenile crimes. "A life without parole sentence improperly denies the juvenile offender a chance to demonstrate growth and maturity."

snip>

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/2010-05-17-court-kennedy_N.htm

[ruggerson]

1. Thank you Justice Kennedy

may you continue to pleasantly surprise us.

[proteus_lives]

2. Should be case by case.

There are people who grow and change but juveniles who rape and murder? They don't deserve second chances.

[Unvanguard]

3. The decision excluded homicides.

And how do you know that it is impossible for people who rape and murder before they are even eighteen to change? What guarantee do you have that thirty, forty, fifty years past that point they will be just as terrible people?

[proteus_lives]

5. Good.

"And how do you know that it is impossible for people who rape and murder before they are even eighteen to change?"

They could but they don't deserve to benefit from it outside of prison. If a murderer or rapist truly changes then they should make the best of it inside.

[Tunkamerica]

4. I thought this excluded cases of murder...

I could be wrong, but that's what I heard on the radio this afternoon.

[cstanleytech]

6. I believe you are correct that the ruling was narrowly focused on

juveniles who were sentenced to life for a crime that didnt involve the taking of another persons life.

[depakid]

7. So much for evolving standards of decency...

[proteus_lives]

8. Here's one standard of decency what never changes.

Don't rape or murder anyone.

Sorry, if you don't agree.

[depakid]

9. Just hang 'em high- no matter what the age

and why stop at 12? Why not 11?

Simple to see how America so easily became a nation of torturers-

[proteus_lives]

10. How sad.

You don't even read posts anymore in your rush to overly emotional rhetoric.

I never said anything about the death penalty.

Plus "Simple to see how America so easily became a nation of torturers"? Lame! I've seen you use that a half-dozen times. New buzz-phrases is key when you don't actually have anything to say.

You need to pick-up your game. What's wrong? Lack of sleep? Maybe you go eat something, take a nap and then try again.

[depakid]

15. A Supreme court decision in 2005 is the only reason some states aren't still executing juveniles

and the wish on the part of many to do just that is one big reason why the US- alongside only Somalia, refuses to ratify CNR (the Convention on the Rights of the Child).

Currently in the US there are two high profile cases where juveniles (aged 12 and 11 at the time of their offenses) are facing life in prison without parole. And- here on purportedly progressive board, that sentence receives a surprising considerable amount of support.

Whether it's due to outrage addition, lust for retribution, poorly developed moral reasoning, fear, loathing and cowardice- or something else, it's the same set of psychological attributes that's led to Americans tolerating, supporting- or openly advocating torture.

[proteus_lives]

17. Another thing. No one is talking about torture.

We're talking about prison sentences.

I've noticed it's really hard for you to stay on-topic. Usually when someone disagrees with your or dunks you, that's when the whole "America is bad, evil, Mordor, blah, blah, blah" starts.

"Currently in the US there are two high profile cases where juveniles (aged 12 and 11 at the time of their offenses) are facing life in prison without parole."

Refresh, what did these two juveniles do? Because that matters to me.

That's why I originally said case by case.

[depakid]

18. The same cruel, vindictive and fearful nature

leads to both ends.

We should probably also add in Old Testament obsession to go along with the other psychological attributes listed above.

[proteus_lives]

23. Again, no point.

And we disagree on what is a "cruel, vindictive and fearful nature".

I don't understand why you think punishing a rapist or a murderer is "cruel, vindictive and fearful".

BTW, what "cruel, vindictive and fearful" part of the Australian national character leads to the beating of foreign students and racism against the natives? Note: You have to ask a real Australian.

[depakid]

24. Yes, we do disagree

though as with many- your sense of proportionality and such has been distorted- or rather, bears a resemblance to what one would find when querying a child or an adolescent.

It's as if the corporate media persona's in the United States have infected some with disease that's quite resistant to self-reflection- or any sense of principles higher than visceral reaction.

[proteus_lives]

25. Funny, that's kinda the way I think of you.

"or rather, bears a resemblance to what one would find when querying a child or an adolescent."

Overly emotional, self-centered and ignorant of the way the world really is. It's like you're stuck at 16.

I still don't why you think punishing a murderer or rapist is somehow "out of proportion".

Corporate media. Still hitting all the buzz-phrases and boogeymen.

Visceral reaction? :rofl: Wow, you don't even see the irony in a person like you saying something like that, do you?

And what's even funnier is that you keep ignoring most of my points in order to cling to your blinders.

You should try expanding your world-view. It would help.

[earcandle]

11. I can't agree as long as we give them every day examples of same on tv and movies as a constant feed

All can be influenced by this trash we allow in the media. Children are vulnerable and unformed and as such informed by what we feed them.


How about giving them Something Different

[provis99]

19. kids watch more violent tv but commit fewer violent crimes than adults.

You got it exactly backwards, bub.

[earcandle]

26. Kids weren't killers when I was growing up.... they got that notion on TV.

[snooper2]

27. You never read about the gangs in the late 1800's, early 1900's

young kids and teenagers - and yes murders did happen...

Ever hear of the Dead Rabbits? The Eastman Gang?


December 1968 when Mary Bell, 11, and her friend Norma Bell, 13, were tried for strangling two little boys, the atmosphere at the Newcastle courthouse was subdued. "The room was always quiet, all the police officers considerate, the Court gentle, and--a secondary effect--the British press invariably discreet," wrote Gitta Sereny, a journalist covering the case. By the standards of any era, the crime could hardly have been more horrific or sensational--the murder of children by children--and yet, she writes, the media treated the case with "unprecedented restraint" from start to finish.

http://karisable.com/ymmarybell.htm

On October 26, 1965, Indianapolis police answered a call saying that a girl had died. The call came from a pay telephone in front of a Shell station in a poor section of the city. The caller was a teenaged boy whose voice had not finished changing into that of an adult man. He sounded very nervous and directed the police to the address, 3850 East New York Street, at which they would find the dead female.

When the cops got to the dingy, rundown, clapboard home to which the anonymous caller had directed them, they found the emaciated dead body of 16-year-old Sylvia Marie Likens. She was covered with bruises and small wounds, later revealed to be cigarette and match burns that numbered over 100. There were also large areas where the outer layer of skin had peeled off. Likens also had a large letter "3" branded on her chest. However, the most remarkable injuries, by far, were the words in block letters that had been burned directly onto her stomach: "I'M A PROSTITUTE AND PROUD OF IT!"

Thus ended one of the most horrible crimes ever committed against a single victim.

The crime had been perpetrated by an informal group of teenagers and children, some as young as 11 and 12, led by a 37-year-old woman. That woman's name was Gertrude Baniszewski (pronounced "Ban-i-SHEF-ski" rather than the more fittingly ominously sounding way it looks like it should be said: "Ban-i-ZOO-ski"). Sylvia and her younger sister, the 15-year-old disabled Jenny Fay Likens (she had a limp due to polio and a brace around that leg) had been boarding with Baniszewski since early July.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/likens/1.html



If only these kids hadn't been playing those violent video games these crimes never would have happened :eyes:

[Wednesdays]

13. Is that you, Clarence?

:shrug:

[proteus_lives]

14. Wow, that's even worse then depakid.

You really can't bring anything better to the table?

[BolivarianHero]

20. I disagree...

We cannot expect the legal system to give juveniles adult responsibilities and to face adult consequences if they do not have the same rights a adults. If you can't drink till you're 21 (or have your rights limited by the state and by society in other meaningful ways), you shouldn't be treated like an adult when it comes to societal expectations.

I've never understood why the American justice system is so harsh on juveniles; if society says you're too young to drink, you're too young to vote, you're to young to consent to sexual activity, you're too young to sign a contract, you're too young to serve in the military, and you're too young to put a coin in a fucking slot machine, then you're too young to face the death penalty, to face extended prison terms, and to be jailed with adults.

[proteus_lives]

21. Here's where I disagree.

A 14 year-old commits murder or rape. Do you think he should be set free when he's 18 or 21?

Unless he's disabled or some or mitigating factor, he knows murder is wrong. I don't understand why such a person should basically get-off scot free after ending another person's life.

I'm just talking about serious crimes here not shop-lifting or smoking weed.

Violent felonies are violent felonies and juveniles in most cases should face the same "societal expectations".

[msanthrope]

28. Knowing "that something is wrong" shouldn't be the only calculus for juvenile

justice.

Sure, teenagers know that murder is wrong. They know it abstractly, because they've been told so.

But most teens haven't developed their ability to judge consequences....their empathy is limited, and thus, their ability to perceive the logical outcomes of their behavior is also limited....they need more time for their moral centers to (hopefully) solidify.

Essentially, most teens lack the life experience that would give them enough wisdom to avoid crime. They don't 'get' the harm they do to others, and to themselves. It's why teens do incredibly stupid things that adults shake their heads at--criminal and non-criminal.

Psychological studies that bear this out have been the underpinning of much SCOTUS and state jurisprudence that has argued against execution of juveniles, or housing them with adults, and for alternative sentencing.

When I had juvenile clients? It was like dealing with an adult with diminished capacity.

I don't think automatic release at 18 or 21 is a good thing, but neither is a life sentence for a 14 year-old.

[defendandprotect]

12. Nicely expressed . . good for Kennedy . . Now, let's HOPE he'll make amends down the line...

[No Elephants]

16. The trillion dollar question: What or who changed Kennedy's mind?

[depakid]

22. Perhaps he has a conscience