THERE IS A VIDEO: Detroit police scramble to get story straight as "Pucker Factor" hits record high

[npk]

DETROIT -- Police who carried out a raid on a family home that left a 7-year-old girl dead over the weekend were accompanied by a camera crew for a reality television show, and an attorney says video of the siege contradicts the police account of what happened.

Geoffrey Fieger, an attorney for the family of young Aiyana Jones, said he has seen three or four minutes of video of the raid, although he declined to say whether it was shot by the crew for the A&E series "The First 48," which has been shadowing Detroit homicide detectives for months.

Police have said officers threw a flash grenade through the first-floor window of the two-family home, and that an officer's gun discharged, killing the girl, during a struggle or after colliding with the girl's grandmother inside the home.

But Fieger said the video shows an officer lobbing the grenade and then shooting into the home from the porch.

"There is no question about what happened because it's in the videotape," Fieger said. "It's not an accident. It's not a mistake. There was no altercation."

"Aiyana Jones was shot from outside on the porch. The videotape shows clearly the officer throwing through the window a stun grenade-type explosive and then within milliseconds of throwing that, firing a shot from outside the home," he said.

A&E spokesman Dan Silberman said neither he nor anyone else from the network would comment about the case, and he denied a request by The Associated Press for the footage.

read more at link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/17/AR2010051700703.html?sub=AR

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Well wouldn't you know it there is a video tape. And imagine my surprise it seems to contradict the story that the police chief told the press.

[WeDidIt]

1. First Degree Murder, IMO

The cop should sit in prison for the rest of his life with no possibility of parole.

IIRC, Michigan does not have the death penalty, otherwise I would support the cop being eligible for it.

[Lagomorph]

60. And...

...accessory to murder for anyone who tried to spin it or cover it.

[orwell]

2. That darn videotape...

...must have a "reality" bias.

Are you gonna trust your own lyin' eyes?

[JBoy]

3. He may as well have thrown a live grenade.

[WeDidIt]

4. He *DID* throw a live grenade.

A flash grenade produces an explosive shock. The only thing different from a flash grenade and a combat grenade is the shrapnel.

And there is still flying shit from a flash grenade, just not the sharp metal from a combat grenade.

[Pavulon]

19. Except the major difference, there is no difference

a fragmentation grenade would kill everyone in the room, by design. A stun grenade is made to stun people so they dont have to be shot. Sounds like someones booger hooker was on the trigger and he jumped and fired a ND shot.

[WeDidIt]

36. They should not have used the concussion grenade in the first place

They are supposed to be used only when they know the perpetrator is there, armed and dangerous, and there are no innocents present.

The explosion from a "stun" grenade can seriously injure or even kill children.

[Pavulon]

44. Have no experience with them.

I would assume what you are saying to be true, outside of the person involved harming people who could be injured by a concussion grenade. No first hand experience.

I do have first hand experience with the M4 and various sidearms. None will fire unless the trigger is pulled. This is fundamental operational rules.

556 nato, 9mm (40 s&w, etc) will all penetrate most material in the home other than plaster and brick and retain lethal energy.

[AllentownJake]

46. Unless this was a hostage situation

The should have waited for the suspect to go to his car in plain clothes and had officers observing all possible exits to the building.

[Nailzberg]

52. That's what worries me about the possible TV crew.

If "First 48" was filming this homicide investigation (as has been rumored), could the homicide detectives given a go order to SRT so they could get their guy in time to close the show? Was some bit of ego involved? Would they have put an eye on the house and waited if there were no cameras?

[AllentownJake]

54. More likely a producer wanted a dramatic capture

What is more interesting for the Sheeple to watch, a bunch of plain clothes police officers hanging out in a neighborhood waiting for a suspect to leave his building, or a SWAT team throwing flash grenades and barging into a building.

I'm of the opinion this 7 year old died because some scum sucking producer and a police chief who wanted his close up had a discussion on what would be great for the TV show.

[Nailzberg]

58. Being on that side of the camera, actually probably not the producer.

Cops push back when producers try to get them to do what they don't want to. They pretty much ignore camera crews like we aren't there, but the producers they actively distrust. If a producer urged them to go in, they'd probably do the opposite and wait.

But I do start to wonder if the detectives, knowing they were being filmed, had a little cowboy moment and called for the raid early.

[AllentownJake]

59. The entire notion of reality TV always made me laugh

The mere presence of a camera and knowing other people are going to be watching you inspires people to perform for the crowd watching them, therefore, other than the fact you are documenting people's reaction to being filmed, there is very little chance of catching how a person would act, with no camera present.

[Nailzberg]

93. And you are absolutly correct.

With or without being coached to do certain things, the cast is always aware of the cameras' presence.

[Ignis]

98. +1

Either he was following bad policy or he made a bad decision with limited intel.

[tblue37]

79. What is an ND shot? nt

[Pavulon]

87. Negligent Discharge. (not accidental)

generally preceded by a break of rules surrounding safe firearms handling. These rules apply in both a target range or combat.

[NutmegYankee]

9. A flash bang is pretty bad if it lands on you.

And the info trickling in is that the flash bang landed right on the girl, and caused severe burns.

[notadmblnd]

5. There's a post here earlier form the Associated Press

that heavily insinuates that the police went to the wrong apartment.

[msanthrope]

38. They did. n/t

[KamaAina]

6. Wonder how they found Geoffrey Fieger (Jack Kevorkian's attorney)

or if he found them.

Factoid: His late brother Doug was the frontman for The Knack ("My Sharona", "Good Girls Don't").

[notadmblnd]

62. Geoffrey Fieger advertises and is a local attorney

who practices all over Southeast Michigan. A lot of people don't like Geoff, they say he has a big mouth and is arrogant, but hey, who would want a Timid Tilly or Tommy fighting for them in a court of law?

[knitter4democracy]

99. He's a well-known, good trial lawyer.

Sure, he's a bit kooky, but he's still a good lawyer. He often takes on cases like this for free, too, mind you.

[Webster Green]

7. The pigs lied to cover their butts? Shocking!

Mutherfuckers! :mad:

[NutmegYankee]

8. As angry as this makes me - I highly doubt it was intentional

It is more likely the police officer got excited and didn't follow his training to keep the finger off the trigger and let out one round. A valid criticism of swat tactics is that they make the situation more intense and everyone that much more on edge.

[petronius]

12. Not only that, I'd be completely unsurprised if the excitement of being

on the teevee got these police a lot more worked up than they might have been. No excuse or mitigation of course...

[Dreamer Tatum]

14. Actually, that would be very mitigating

to the degree that it would take Murder 1 off the table.

[petronius]

28. I really only meant "mitigating" in a moral responsibility sense

I guess it would make an interesting court case (or at least a L&O plot) if the degree to which the distraction of the camera crew reduced the officer's responsibility was considered...

[Nailzberg]

27. Doubtful on that. Detroit SRT has been on TV for many years.

The First 48 has been shooting in Detroit for years. And SRT was the subject of its own show, Detroit SWAT.

Mostly cops hate camera crews for the same reason cops hate look-e-loos. Because they don't want them getting hurt.


Where the TV factor gets interesting is whether it influenced the investigators' decision to execute the warrant that night instead of waiting for morning.

[petronius]

32. I'm not familiar with the show (or Detroit police for that matter) - my speculation

was based on my impression from snippets of Cops and shows like that that the officers being interviewed seem more amped up and aggressive than I'm used to seeing. But, perhaps there's a selection bias and an editing effect going on there.

I do hope the decision to schedule the raid and conduct in this particular manner is closely examined...

[Nailzberg]

35. The main difference is cops on Cops are not recurring.

Those guys on "Cops" probably are a little amped up because they may have a cameraman for a week or so. It's new to them.

There's a whole host of cable TV shows shadowing law enforcement. Detroit seems to get a lot of them due to the MI tax credits for production and Detroit being known for crime, and both the homicide and SRT units have had their own series, and after a week or two they don't even notice the crews with them anymore. (I'm a cameraman)

[petronius]

43. That sounds reasonable. Thanks for the insight! (nt)

[Lost4words]

15. yea bad training thats it, not that police see the public as the enemy

or anything like that.

[NutmegYankee]

22. One can argue that is bad training in and of itself. nt

[Lagomorph]

61. Actually, I do think it's the training.

They're trained as light infantry shock troops. It seems like the police shoot an unarmed innocent every couple of days, somewhere in the country. I'll bet they don't keep statistics on that at the DOJ.

I think since they've gone national with police training standards, there should be an investigation of whoever is doing the training. I'm really getting tired of unarmed citizens getting gunned down.

This has gone way beyond "officer safety" and well into "who has the highest body count".

[notadmblnd]

73. corporations like Blackwater/XE, Triple Canopy all have their hands

in the training of law enforcement these days. I too don't like the militarization of our public safety officers and think we'd all be better off if these Mercenary corporations were dissolved.

[Lagomorph]

83. Exactly.

What part of having an A-Team working in our neighborhood sounds good?

[sendero]

41. Most times..

... a car veers off the road onto a sidewalk and mows down a few peds, it is not intentional but the perp goes to jail, as he should, anyway.

Criminal negligence.

[Lance_Boyle]

67. The over-the-top use of force and SWAT tactics was intentional, and directly caused the death

Police departments have been out to "shock and awe" the citizenry with this bullshit storm trooper nonsense for way too long now. There is VERY seldom any real need for it. I would wager that in this instance it was done for TV drama. Yay TV show - you and your trigger-happy terrorist badgepals killed a little girl. Hope the ratings are everything you expected.

The police need to be reined in. Many of them need to not be cops at all anymore. Certainly those who have pushed for militarization of the forces need to go. The rest need regular psychiatric testing, and tons probably ought to have their guns taken away and be assigned to desks.

It's time to reform the monster we've made out of the "protect and serve" guys.

[NutmegYankee]

88. I don't disagree.

I just believe the whole system is at fault.

[CBGLuthier]

69. Oh dreadfully sorry. My Bad.Did not mean to KILL YOUR CHILD

Yeah, that makes it all fucking better doesn't it.

[Raineyb]

74. I really don't see how that makes a difference at all.

The cops apparently acted recklessly. You think that family gives a shit if the police killed their child on purpose?

[backscatter712]

10. This death was not an accident. At best, it was malfeasance.

The only outcome of this incident that could even vaguely resemble justice is one that sees that cop spending at least a decade in prison for second degree murder.

Shit like this is why I fucking hate cops.

[sabrina 1]

16. I hate the government that has turned this country into a war zone

by arming police as if they were going to war.

There was NO need to go into a home to catch a suspected murderer armed to the teeth like that.

What every happened to intelligent police work where they stake out the suspect's home and work-place etc. and then move in and make an arrest.

The lack of concern for civilian lives is an outrage.

There will always be the possibility of harming an innocent civilian when they barge into people's homes. That should be off limits, against the law.

No surprise either that they were performing for the cameras. Thinking they would be heroes in some reality show on TV.

Law enforcement has become entertainment with innocent lives repeatedly endangered for profit.

Shame on A&E also for being involved in these kinds of programs instead of doing something worthwhile like making a documentary about the creeping fascism in this society and showing the public what their law enforcement agencies have been doing over the past two decades.

[fascisthunter]

21. yup, and some want us to have more guns

like throwing gas on a fire.

[Pavulon]

30. Dude, this issue has noting to do with the political death trap that is gun control.

we can talk about da bears if you like.

[Lost4words]

50. if you want the heat to increase thats what you do,

[political_Dem]

65. +10000

There is also a racial component on the cop shows, even though they try to "play it down". On these cop reality shows, it always seems that they are at war with people of color in their own neighborhoods. And you know how the narrative goes: the police always have to win to give the reassurance to white America that they are "taming those savages" far away from their clean, gated suburban neighborhoods.

:sarcasm:

And because most of the suspects (and/or victims) on these shows are folks of color, they create a stereotype that appeals to the lowest instincts of their target audiences (white; 18-35; male; middle/upper class; disposable income). This is the especially the case when the cops on camera get a little rough with their suspects all for the fodder of these viewers.

It's horrible the members of this same target audience are the same ones you see as authority figures on camera in the media. They are especially found as the pundits and the politicians. The prejudices of this "target audience" shape policy in this country as well as the mind-set belonging to white privilege. This is especially the case when it has to with notions of law and order.

Subduing "the others" and keeping them away from the "typical Americans" is the main point of these law enforcement reality shows.

So, if the police truly does "ignore the camera" and viewers get to see cops in their natural habitat (so to speak), what do these shows truly say about law enforcement--especially when they engage in situations as the one that killed a once vibrant little girl?

[KurtNYC]

70. These shows do well with an older crowd

Fox kept America's Most Wanted on the air even when it stopped making money, bc there aren't many advertisers for the older segments, bc Fox was pressured to keep the show on the air. It was very effective in capturing fugitives in spite of the fact that it didn't make any money.

Plenty of things that are very sad (dysfunctional families, domestic violence, etc) are treated as entertainment on these shows. The montage with the pumping reggae song on the beginning of "Cops" says it all.

** edit for clarity

[msanthrope]

39. Criminally negligent homicide. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

53. & the supreme court just ruled juvenile murderers can be sentenced to life without parole.

[Lyric]

11. But...but...Officer Friendly wouldn't lie to us!

He only shoots at us for our own good!

:sarcasm:

[tabasco]

13. I'm reminded of the scene in Fahrenheit 451 when they're running down a criminal on the telescreen

What a sick, police state in which we live.

[sabrina 1]

26. Too many people have seen too many action movies and

have no idea what they are promoting when they cheer on this kind of police action. If movies were geared more to real strength, rather the creating the impression that 'strong' means kicking down someone's door and killing their children and pets, all dressed up like something from a video game, the people might be better informed.

I'm beginnint to believe that those violent video games were meant to 'soften' up the population to accept these murderous tactics from law enforcement starting when people are very young and impressionable. What a screwed up society this is.

[Occulus]

63. My first console was an Atari 2600 (which I still have).

The only "cop" video games I've ever played are the SWAT games, and the two games I own from that series treat the SWAT teams in the games as though SWAT is only there to get the really bad guys off the street. The bad guys are especially bad, obviously bad, and in many cases, shoot first. All the evidence needed to convict the bad guys in the SWAT games is in plain sight, there isn't any ambiguity of guilt, and the AI for the innocents is terrible; their actions make no sense and almost totally lack context (the verbal analogy would be someone blurting out "blue dominoes cook in Antarctica").

Why am I telling you this? Because people who have played games (I have original copies of Commodore 64 game floppies) know that the reality in video games is not reality. In reality, there is no such thing as a Palin lookalike witch in a Dominatrix Librarian getup whose hair is also her clothing and a weapon besides, aliens don't make corpses come to life again, but horribly mutated, and for whom strategic dismemberment is the only realistic option, little girls do not run around with giant syringes to suck the blood from random corpses so that the slug living in her stomach can process it, and other people aren't walking around with green plum-bobs hanging over their heads that turn red if they're in a really bad mood.

I first heard your "desensitization" argument when "Berzerk" came out. Yeah, for the 2600. "Donahue" or some such. If they had had clips from, oh, say, "Dead Space 2", video games would have been banned outright, and forever, but that argument wasn't true then and it isn't true now. The things are fantasy, not real. Nearly every gamer on the planet knows that, and the ones that don't get the difference (like that poor sap who starved to death or something because he couldn't tear himself away from World of Warcraft, or the people who got divorced in reality over events that occurred in "Second Life") already probably have something wrong with them or their relationships. You can't blame 'violent video games' as a category where other psychological or social problems already exist.

Gamers have to fully understand the context of the story's events in order to fully appreciate the game, and random shit (random violence, random gore) happening that isn't fully explained or placed into context really piss off the more experienced, older set of the community- and it is a community in every sense of the word but borders. Honestly, if you feel that way about video games, that they "desensitize" people to violence in general, you probably shouldn't play anything more complicated than the "casual" genre- say, "Bejeweled 2" or "World of Goo". Even "Portal" might be beyond you; see below if you want a sweet little deal from the makers of that one. I certainly would not recommend anything on the level of "Far Cry 2", "Bioshock", or "Prototype". The violence will shock you.

We, the gamers, understand the context of that violence. But then, you need to actually play the games to understand that. One of the most common things I have observed about people who complain about any element of video games doing "X" to society is that they have not played the games. That's like complaining that "Catcher in the Rye" is- well, whatever complaint the book banners have- while never having read the book- as most of them have not.

---

I mentioned "Portal" above. It's a nonviolent 3D logic puzzle game utilizing an interdimensional portal 'gun'. Try this if you're just "not a gamer". Go to Valve's Steam website (Steam is completely trustworthy; I've purchased several games there with no problem), download the Steam client, and create a free account. Search for Portal; it's FREE- apparently, the whole game- until May 24th. It's a big download, but it's also a free critically-acclaimed game. Try it. It's as close to a perfect game, from beginning to end, as you are ever likely to see. Then, and only then, will you understand why I'm making the argument I am.

Never, ever blame games for violence in society. The medium has every category to offer.

[Blue_Tires]

68. wow...the 2600 was my first console, too

wish i preserved mine...

[The Straight Story]

17. Only government employees should own guns, because we trust them more than each other

Well, some do. I sure as fuck don't.

[Pavulon]

18. Cooper Rule 3 violation. Finger on trigger, jumped from flashbang

fired an ND round. Again giant fuckup.

[tkmorris]

23. You always use lingo where civilian words would suffice

Since, in the main, you are speaking to people who aren't police officers it might be wiser to speak more plainly.

[NutmegYankee]

25. Negligent discharge

A negligent discharge (ND) is a discharge of a firearm involving culpable carelessness. In judicial and military technical terms, a negligent discharge is a chargeable offence. A number of armed forces automatically consider any accidental discharge to be negligent discharge, under the assumption that a trained soldier has control of his weapon at all times.

[Bonobo]

31. That does not sound like a negligent discharge.

It sounds like a bad decision, motivated by being a stupid fuckhead.

[Pavulon]

34. Negligence precedes acts of criminal or civil liability

kids have accidents in their pants and white carpet is a bad decision. This, if true, will cost detroit millions in a settlement. Involuntary manslaughter sounds reasonable.

[Pavulon]

29. giant fuckup is not all that lingo intensive...

negligent discharge (where it would be noticed) will earn you an article 15 in the Army and Marines, even if no one is injured. I am not a police officer.

However I will expound. A guy named jeff cooper set the 4 basic rules of safe and modern handling of firearms. If followed any firearm incident even a true accident (firing pin is stuck forward, gun goes full auto when slide is closed) will not result in death.

Rule 3 is do not touch the trigger until you are ready to fire. Very simple, in conjunction with sympathetic motions of the body, it is required for safe operations.

[ret5hd]

78. But then we wouldn't be impressed with his expertise!

[Pavulon]

89. Yeppers technical stuff has technical language

computers or engineering all have terms that describe a situation or act. Thats what google is for.

[TroglodyteScholar]

91. You think the use of the lingo is unintentional?

We're supposed to be impressed, silly.

[benEzra]

95. Those *are* civilian terms.

The Four Rules of gun safety come from the civilian shooting community, not the LE community, although LEO's are wise to learn and follow them.

[fascisthunter]

20. wow...

[pleah]

24. K&R

[Nailzberg]

33. Feiger has seen a tape no one else has?

The article says the AP was denied a copy and the police are working on obtaining a copy, but Feiger has seen them?

[msanthrope]

40. Yep. If you took video of police malfeasance, who would you turn

it over to?

[Nailzberg]

55. My producer. If the courts want it, they can subpoena it.

[npk]

42. Actually it is not that unusual that the AP was denied a copy

Since this video was shot by a private business or entity (A&E) they usually refuse to turn it over to a news source. They probably don't want this video playing on youtube and hurting any chances they might have to make money of this video on one of their shows. Of course it probably wont matter, as soon as the police subpoena the video, somebody will leak it to the press and then it will be all over the internet anyway.

[Nailzberg]

57. Oh, I don't think the AP thing is unusal either. I think its unusually that Fieger has seen it.

I shoot these kinds of shows. I would never hand my tape over to anyone outside my production chain. And in my dealing with network lawyers, A&E wouldn't turn it over without court order. If Fieger has seen a tape, and the cops haven't, it's probably a witness video and not from the A&E crew. I'm basically just wondering if he's doing some lawyering and putting out an alternate theory, or if he's really seen a tape.

[Romulox]

72. Do you know Geoff Fieger? He knows how to grease a few wheels.

[Nailzberg]

92. Oh, I know he's got juice. But as a camera op, I would need a lot of greasing.

A crew-member is majorly liable for leaking even a few seconds of that footage. If I'm working for the network, they own any material I shoot. The non-disclosure agreements that crews sign are usually to the tune of 5-7 million. So give me a couple million extra to live off of cause I'm never gonna find work again, and Feiger would have to agree to defend me pro bono when the network laywers sue the piss out of me for misuse of their property.

Not to say he didn't see a tape. If it's A&E footage, it could be released by the network, and it's quite possible Feiger spoke to A&E legal affairs to obtain a copy. Now, network lawyers are royal pains about giving footage to anyone, but Feiger could have made a deal with A&E to keep the network and its production entities out of whatever lawsuits come out of this case. The other possibility is the tape he saw was shot independently by a private citizen that saw things developing and whipped out their camcorder or camera phone.

[Romulox]

94. I don't know from producers, but the footage WILL be subpoenaed. It just makes sense to co-ordinate

A competing news organization can't subpoena the A&E footage, but the plaintiff's counsel surely can. It may make sense to co-operate early on with Fieger. And after all, that footage went from being shown on Sunday at 12:45 pm to prime time coast to coast. It's probably also a straight dollars and sense decision by A & E in that sense.

[Rex]

37. Hmm...been reading more reports on this

Thanks God for videotape, because there are some elements that will defend cops no matter what the evidence says. The military is the same way. However, why did the cop shoot a second after the grenade went into the house...and just happen to hit the girl in the head? Something still doesn't smell right...and the guy is STILL without charges in the case...man what a fuckup.

[arcadian]

45. Wow! Just like 'Running Man'!!!

Sick, sick culture we live in.

[AllentownJake]

47. At least there was a trial in the Running man nt.

[Mojeoux]

48. Toys on the lawn!!! My prayers for the family of Aiyana K/R

[Mojeoux]

49. "The upstairs UNIT in the two famly home."

That's a "duplex." They have separated entrances.

[Mojeoux]

51. Here are 2 links from the Detroit News, They arrested the Gramma!

They killed her grand daughter, then covering up their stupidity, they arrested her! The first link is from Sunday, before they found out about the video. The Second is today.


http://www.detnews.com/article/20100516/METRO/5160325/1409/Police-accidentally-shoot-7-year-old-girl-in-house-search




http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/23570515/detail.html

[tmyers09]

56. A fucking flash grenade? Is this fucking Call of Duty?

[political_Dem]

64. Not only is it heartbreaking; this is simply disgusting and a shame.

My heart goes out to the family of the little girl. She didn't deserve what happened to her. And I hope that they receive justice for this terrible situation. The look on the father's face was simply tragic. His pain must be immeasurable.

I'm sure there is more to this situation than what is being told in the press. Common sense would tell you that it wasn't an accident. And knowing that these cops were being filmed, they probably put a little bit extra gusto into that so-called "raid". Add a little machismo, and there you go. :(

I wonder if the "No Knock" policy has something to do with this.

[Richard Steele]

66. K&R

[no limit]

71. Isn't if odd that everytime a video is found it condradicts what the police originally said?

How can that be?

[Liberal_in_LA]

81. without this video, I believe they would charge the grandmother with assault on cop and murder

thank gawd for the video

[Ignis]

101. +1

I hate those COPS reality shows, but thank goodness this one was filming.

[Fire1]

75. Feiger's crazy. Did the cop know the child was in the house?

Did he even SEE the child or ANYONE in the house? Poor judgement? Absolutely but still not deliberate.

[Taverner]

77. Did the cop give a rat's ass?

Probably not

I will say it again: Cops are DRUNK WITH POWER

[Fire1]

84. Or FEAR! n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

86. Amen!

[Taverner]

76. Wonder what the Gestapo Apologists here will say now...

That kid had it coming!!!!

[uponit7771]

80. WHY did he throw a grenade in the first place!?!?!?!

[Tsiyu]

82. America's Cops: our New Terrorists

Way to go, lowlife, scumbag pieces of shit.

Now, every kid in Detroit is scared to death of cops just lobbing fucking grenades into their homes. Jesus Fucking Christ, cops in this country are fucking out of control.

This just pisses me off so bad, for this family, for that poor child who will never grow up to be the person she was meant to be, and for our society.

Grown men with the the egocentric, poor impulse control of little boys - carrying dangerous adult weapons - are now just fucking free to terrorize and kill innocent Americans at will.

"Yeah Motherfuckers, you look real bad now, dontcha? Real tough guys. YOU KILLED A SEVEN-YEAR=OLD KID just so you coukd get your rocks off being seen on goddamned TV. WHAT THE FUCK?"

Is this a great country or what?
Homegrown goddamn terrorists with badges.

Motherfucking PIGS.

[Echo In Light]

96. .

[Tsiyu]

97. That about sums it up n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

85. Dear lord! What kind of nation of monsters have we become?

We kill a 7 year old girl..then try to blame her grandmother.

[Ignis]

100. ...And without the tape, would probably get away with it.

What a sad story this is, all around. :(

[fishwax]

90. .

:grr: