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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 10:58 AM Original message |
Nun automatically excommunicated for participating in decision allowing abortion that saved mother |
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KansDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:03 AM Response to Original message |
1. DUer "snake in the grass" said it best... |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:05 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Compassion. |
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Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:54 PM Response to Reply #1 |
62. +4 |
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HughMoran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:06 AM Response to Original message |
3. Nun gets promoted, no longer enslaved by hate-filled organization |
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WeDidIt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:08 AM Response to Original message |
4. Yep, just as twisted and fucked up as radical Islam. n/t |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:21 AM Response to Original message |
5. The "hope" is that both would survive. Uh-huh. The Church should never play doctor. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 12:23 PM Response to Reply #5 |
12. It was a Catholic hospital |
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TwilightGardener (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 12:29 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. If the woman was on a ventilator (which is likely, given that they decided |
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Cleobulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 12:35 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. Even worse, sometimes the secular hospitals are few and far between... |
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tsuki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:05 PM Response to Reply #12 |
105. That probably grabs as much tax dollars as they can. Superstitions |
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Cleobulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:21 AM Response to Original message |
6. The RCC is perhaps the most fucked up and dangerous international organization on the planet... |
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Mari333 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:24 AM Response to Original message |
7. lot of nuns I have met are pretty progressive |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 12:37 PM Response to Reply #7 |
17. Perhaps, they are. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:10 PM Response to Reply #7 |
33. Heck, nuns taught me how to swear. |
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blueamy66 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 09:46 AM Response to Reply #33 |
131. One taught me how to drink. |
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BlueIris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 09:32 AM Response to Reply #7 |
129. Nuns work with the poor, destitute and oppressed. They see firsthand whom the system fails |
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RC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:24 AM Response to Original message |
8. The Catholic Church had no position on abortion until the early 1950's |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:37 AM Response to Reply #8 |
9. Serving Christ is preferable to them than working for Mammon? |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 12:23 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. Maybe who they classify themselves as takes precedence over what anyone else, including the pope, |
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Cleobulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 12:32 PM Response to Reply #11 |
15. No offense, but as an ex-Catholic, I find the Catholics around here to be over sensitive... |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 12:46 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. No offense, but at less than a year around here, you have waaaay less experience than I do |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 01:04 PM Response to Reply #15 |
19. BTW, I think of myself, not as an ex-Catholic, but rather as a post-Catholic. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:38 PM Response to Reply #15 |
97. Some of them are certainly. |
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Manifestor_of_Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:06 PM Response to Reply #15 |
106. ALL Christian churches teach tthat women are inferior, because the Trinity is all male. |
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pundaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 05:35 AM Response to Reply #106 |
126. How could you tell that bird is male? Typically "end of discussion" goes near the bottom. |
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MindandSoul (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 11:49 AM Response to Original message |
10. Insane! In the mean time. . .the pedophile priests are "being transferred to greener pastures!" |
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mnhtnbb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 12:31 PM Response to Original message |
14. The Catholic Church has no respect for women, but plenty of compassion for pedophiles, |
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Junkie Brewster (301 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 01:14 PM Response to Original message |
20. Women are meaningless to them, except as vessels |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 01:40 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. I really don't get the stance on this. |
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Hansel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 08:33 PM Response to Reply #21 |
121. No logic. They will just stand by and watch two lives end. I know. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:19 PM Response to Reply #20 |
38. case in point and not a very original one at that |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 01:47 PM Response to Original message |
22. I'm sure everyone in this thread stereotyping the C's disrespect for women agree with the following: |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 01:50 PM Response to Reply #22 |
23. 'stereotyping the C's disrespect for women'-yes, it's just a stereotype.Women don't own their bodies |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 01:54 PM Response to Reply #23 |
25. It is stereotyping when you do not differentiate between whom your statements apply to and whom |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 01:58 PM Response to Reply #25 |
26. "The church" IS its heirarchy of males who cover-up crimes & victimize women and children. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:02 PM Response to Reply #26 |
28. You are, simply, wrong. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:15 PM Response to Reply #28 |
36. P.S. And I do emphasize the word "simple". |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:24 PM Response to Reply #36 |
43. Simple, am I? /ignore - - -enough of your lunacy |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:30 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. Oh, how frakking Typical. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:43 PM Response to Reply #47 |
115. Fuck me, you insult someone, and then act surprised that they put you on ignore? |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:03 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. The fact that they covered anything up is proof positive that they are not the church. |
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Ikonoklast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:19 PM Response to Reply #29 |
37. No True Scotsman fallacy. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:45 PM Response to Reply #37 |
53. More authoritarian absolutism applied to semantics; it is not possible for you to make that |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:01 PM Response to Reply #53 |
69. Nice try. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:08 PM Response to Reply #69 |
88. You should write my university and tell them to revoke my MCL undergrad and my |
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Ikonoklast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:17 PM Response to Reply #88 |
108. Arguement From Authority |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:24 PM Response to Reply #108 |
111. No. If you'll examine this thread you will see that I do not depend upon absolutes, so statements |
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Ikonoklast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:31 PM Response to Reply #111 |
113. You offered them into evidence, as support for your position. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:37 PM Response to Reply #113 |
114. You fail to understand what Deconstruction is: I offer them in support of the POSSIBILITY of my posi |
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Ikonoklast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:41 PM Response to Reply #53 |
80. That is the single most steaming pile of pseudo-intellectual bafflegab |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:47 PM Response to Reply #80 |
83. Your problem is that you have trouble with someone who does not accept your frame. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:48 PM Response to Reply #80 |
85. Oh BTW, that's real iconoclastic of you. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:45 PM Response to Reply #80 |
99. How true. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:04 PM Response to Reply #99 |
104. rofl: Please tell us now how "Taliban = Catholic Church" is not prejudice, or stand revealed as |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:50 PM Response to Reply #29 |
56. Hey, they wear the skirts. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:16 PM Response to Reply #56 |
72. Point well made and that's one of the reasons I don't go to "Catholic Church" anymore, but that |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:05 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. "church" means community; why have you chosen a reference to one and only one community over any |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:08 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. In this case, in this thread, we are talking about the Bishop |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:11 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. You need to say that to people making blanket statements about Catholics & the Catholic Church too |
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MH1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:58 PM Response to Reply #34 |
102. I didn't think that the op or most of the criticisms in this thread referred to Catholics |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:29 PM Response to Reply #32 |
45. P.S. You contradict your OP "Taliban = Catholic Church" NOT "Taliban = some Catholic Bishops". |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:09 PM Response to Reply #45 |
71. Why do you defend their actions? |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:32 PM Response to Reply #71 |
76. If you believe in absolutes, the only difference between you and them is which set of absolutes you |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:43 PM Response to Reply #26 |
98. Agreed. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:11 PM Response to Reply #98 |
107. You are contradicting your OP and other posts in this thread. Now, apparently, you |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 01:50 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. No need to sterotype with the evidence is abundantly clear. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:00 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. I'm not making it into something else; posters, by failing to differentiate "the Bishops" or the |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:07 PM Response to Reply #27 |
31. No, you're purposely trying to derail it. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:12 PM Response to Reply #31 |
35. Funny, you don't say that to persons making statements about all Catholics. |
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U4ikLefty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:20 PM Response to Reply #31 |
39. Bingo!!! |
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Hansel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 09:05 PM Response to Reply #27 |
122. There are people with real grievances against the Catholic Church. |
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Dems to Win (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:20 PM Response to Original message |
40. Women, beware! Do NOT enter Catholic hospitals! |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:22 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. Wrong = Apparently it WAS determined by an individual Catholic WOMAN. |
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Dems to Win (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:33 PM Response to Reply #42 |
48. This woman got lucky. But the POLICY is demeaning to women. I advocate women avoiding catholic |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:53 PM Response to Reply #48 |
86. "got lucky"???????????!!!!!!!!!! Speaking of DISRESPECT for people. . . Holy fucking wow! |
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Dems to Win (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:17 PM Response to Reply #86 |
90. Yes, the woman who lived got lucky that the individuals did not enforce the letter of the bishop's |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:32 PM Response to Reply #90 |
95. They were very courageous. They must have known their jobs were on the line. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:47 PM Response to Reply #90 |
100. Thanks for the clarification. |
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BlancheSplanchnik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 08:32 PM Response to Reply #48 |
120. not demeaning--- "lifethreatening" would be more accurate. |
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MH1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:01 PM Response to Reply #42 |
103. who, if I understand ex-communication, is technically no longer Catholic |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:21 PM Response to Original message |
41. Interesting that SOME corrections for being "on" or "off" topic are more likely than others. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:53 PM Response to Reply #41 |
58. Deleted message |
patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:56 PM Response to Reply #58 |
87. You have not yet dealt with a bigotted statement: "Taliban = Catholic Church". |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:25 PM Response to Original message |
44. Catholic Church = ONLY it's organizational structure is an authoritarian assumption. |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:29 PM Response to Original message |
46. They've been emboldened by their inroads into the Health Care bill. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:34 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. Another Authoritarian assumption. Jesus, when did people STOP thinking for themselves? |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:35 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. Sorry sweetcheeks, no sale. |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:48 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. If it's the same one I put on ignore, that's where their argument belongs |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:53 PM Response to Reply #54 |
60. Oh, how very democratic of you. "Disagree? Can't deal with it? Put them on ignore."= Conformity |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:57 PM Response to Reply #60 |
66. No, a reasonable response. |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:54 PM Response to Reply #54 |
61. Evidently I don't think for myself! |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:56 PM Response to Reply #61 |
65. If the shoe fits . . . . But then, First, you have to be honest enough to admit that "IF". |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:00 PM Response to Reply #65 |
68. You are arrogant. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:27 PM Response to Reply #68 |
74. Arrogance? "one nun making a compassionate decision does not redeem the whole"= pot, kettle etc. |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:30 PM Response to Reply #74 |
75. I'm following Bluebear's lead. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:34 PM Response to Reply #75 |
77. Some "Starry Messenger"! Can't handle "space travel"? Run away! rofl |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:44 PM Response to Reply #75 |
82. You must be "simple" too. |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:47 PM Response to Reply #82 |
84. And happy to be so! |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:13 PM Response to Reply #84 |
89. That's quite childish. I'd be embarassed if I were you. |
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Lyric (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 09:12 AM Response to Reply #75 |
128. Agreed. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:39 PM Response to Reply #74 |
79. P.S. In some circles this "..." is regarded as Blasphemy and YOU have a problem with judgements |
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U4ikLefty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:42 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. Your posts take up 40% of this thread...got an agenda? |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:49 PM Response to Reply #52 |
55. I'd respect your comment if you also recognized the agenda in "Taliban = Catholic Church" |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:55 PM Response to Reply #55 |
63. Actually, the Catholic Church is worse than the Taliban in many ways. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:43 PM Response to Reply #63 |
81. PROOF RIGHT HERE ALL: As I said, Bigotry and Hatred against Catholics. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:31 PM Response to Reply #52 |
94. Oh yeah, there's an agenda. |
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Ikonoklast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:27 PM Response to Reply #94 |
112. I've read all those posts, and they are word salads; meaningless constructs. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 06:55 PM Response to Reply #112 |
119. ITA |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:48 PM Response to Reply #49 |
116. When they started listening to their bishops? |
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rox63 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:35 PM Response to Original message |
50. The people on the front lines (at the hospital) made the right decision |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:52 PM Response to Reply #50 |
57. Thank you. The nun and those like her, "Catholic" or not, are The Church. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:56 PM Response to Reply #57 |
64. So who are the Bishops? The Cardinals? The Pope? |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:24 PM Response to Reply #64 |
73. They are "a church", like others. The fact that they have failed to live up to their name, |
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Cleobulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 02:18 AM Response to Reply #73 |
123. You are defining Catholicism in such a way as to be meaningless... |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:35 PM Response to Reply #50 |
96. I so agree with you. |
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Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:53 PM Response to Original message |
59. She's better off without that crazy church |
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Manifestor_of_Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:17 PM Response to Reply #59 |
109. She can find a good home in an Anglican church. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 02:59 PM Response to Original message |
67. This thread is full of close-minded bigotry against Catholics, prefered over other possibilities. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:04 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. No. You're trying so hard to play victim here. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 03:37 PM Response to Reply #70 |
78. I am protesting bigotry against good people: "Taliban = Catholic Church" Your inability to |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:29 PM Response to Reply #70 |
91. P.S. This statement proooves that you don't know what dogma is. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:31 PM Response to Reply #91 |
93. P.P.S. So please tell me how you can criticize something that you have no apparent understanding of. |
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City Lights (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:31 PM Response to Original message |
92. How many priests have been excommunicated over molesting children? nt |
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bulloney (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:56 PM Response to Reply #92 |
117. When caught, they're first sent to other parishes, hoping the out of sight/out of mind thingy works. |
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RetroLounge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 04:58 PM Response to Original message |
101. "Taliban = Catholic Church" |
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pundaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 05:47 AM Response to Reply #101 |
127. That is just not true, the Catholic Church has a nifty art collection. |
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Renew Deal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:18 PM Response to Original message |
110. So according to these guys a dead mother and baby is preferable to an abortion. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat May-15-10 05:57 PM Response to Original message |
118. I feel a lot of compassion for those Catholics in a crisis of faith over the deeds of their Church. |
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Manifestor_of_Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 04:59 AM Response to Reply #118 |
124. That's what they do at St. Joseph's Hospital. |
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Ilsa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 05:34 AM Response to Original message |
125. They just don't get that the fetus never had a chance. nt |
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BlueIris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 09:39 AM Response to Reply #125 |
130. They don't care that the fetus never had a chance. |
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Karenina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun May-16-10 10:12 AM Response to Reply #130 |
132. Just wondering if this woman had other children? |
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