Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The Moral Life of Babies

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:29 AM
Original message
The Moral Life of Babies
Edited on Tue May-11-10 09:31 AM by BurtWorm
Read the whole article. It's fascinating and will change the way you think about babies--and possibly about morality as well. If babies have rudimentary morality, which parents (and 'the village') hone, then religion really has no meaningful or rightful claim to being either the origin or main arbiter of morality:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/magazine/09babies-t.html?ref=homepage&src=me&pagewanted=print



The Moral Life of Babies
By PAUL BLOOM

Not long ago, a team of researchers watched a 1-year-old boy take justice into his own hands. The boy had just seen a puppet show in which one puppet played with a ball while interacting with two other puppets. The center puppet would slide the ball to the puppet on the right, who would pass it back. And the center puppet would slide the ball to the puppet on the left . . . who would run away with it. Then the two puppets on the ends were brought down from the stage and set before the toddler. Each was placed next to a pile of treats. At this point, the toddler was asked to take a treat away from one puppet. Like most children in this situation, the boy took it from the pile of the “naughty” one. But this punishment wasn’t enough — he then leaned over and smacked the puppet in the head.

This incident occurred in one of several psychology studies that I have been involved with at the Infant Cognition Center at Yale University in collaboration with my colleague (and wife), Karen Wynn, who runs the lab, and a graduate student, Kiley Hamlin, who is the lead author of the studies. We are one of a handful of research teams around the world exploring the moral life of babies.

Like many scientists and humanists, I have long been fascinated by the capacities and inclinations of babies and children. The mental life of young humans not only is an interesting topic in its own right; it also raises — and can help answer — fundamental questions of philosophy and psychology, including how biological evolution and cultural experience conspire to shape human nature. In graduate school, I studied early language development and later moved on to fairly traditional topics in cognitive development, like how we come to understand the minds of other people — what they know, want and experience.

But the current work I’m involved in, on baby morality, might seem like a perverse and misguided next step. Why would anyone even entertain the thought of babies as moral beings? From Sigmund Freud to Jean Piaget to Lawrence Kohlberg, psychologists have long argued that we begin life as amoral animals. One important task of society, particularly of parents, is to turn babies into civilized beings — social creatures who can experience empathy, guilt and shame; who can override selfish impulses in the name of higher principles; and who will respond with outrage to unfairness and injustice. Many parents and educators would endorse a view of infants and toddlers close to that of a recent Onion headline: “New Study Reveals Most Children Unrepentant Sociopaths.” If children enter the world already equipped with moral notions, why is it that we have to work so hard to humanize them?

A growing body of evidence, though, suggests that humans do have a rudimentary moral sense from the very start of life. With the help of well-designed experiments, you can see glimmers of moral thought, moral judgment and moral feeling even in the first year of life. Some sense of good and evil seems to be bred in the bone. Which is not to say that parents are wrong to concern themselves with moral development or that their interactions with their children are a waste of time. Socialization is critically important. But this is not because babies and young children lack a sense of right and wrong; it’s because the sense of right and wrong that they naturally possess diverges in important ways from what we adults would want it to be.

...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wonder how often that little boy had been told by his parents
to share. By one year of age, most children have been taught the rudiments of prosocial behavior in the form of sharing toys or whatever. They may not practice it all the time but they are likely to have been directed to do so at some point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I thought of that too. what little signals did the baby pick up from the

adults.

are some babies more aware then others? etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Also, babies are frequently rewarded for engaging in
prosociaL behavior themselves...sometimes with treats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Read the rest of the article, though.
There's evidence that children as young as 9 months have a rudimentary sense that helping is good and hindering is bad. I don't remember teaching my nine-month-old about sharing. Of course the teaching may have been very subtle. The point is, however, that children at a very early age are ready for moral education. Their brains are ripe for it even then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Children are sponges. They soak in everything.
Babies cue in on all sorts of cues given by parents during the course of interactions. Nine months is a fairly long period of time. Certainly by that point, a babe has been rewarded with smiles and coos and taught to share by directing him/her to hand something to someone else. Did you ever play give and take with an object? That is sharing at a real fundamental level.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. These behaviorists might say, though, that the fact that the baby learns sharing so quickly
indicates that it's wired to learn to share. I don't know. No one knows for sure. But it seems likely that what we call morality is inherited genetically as an area of the brain that has evolved--been naturally selected--over thousands of years (or millions, maybe) to make learning what we call morality easier. In the same way that birds are wired to fly south when the days become shorter, or that sea turtles are wired to find the sea immediately after birth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. That's not behaviorism. Behaviorists assume a blank slate. It
was Noam Chomsky's work on language development that showed us to be wired at birth for language learning. (Believe it or not, many of us studied and admired Chomsky as a linguist before ever learning of his brilliant work in political justice.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I remember loving his transformational grammar
in undergrad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. I just meant scholars of behavior. Psychologists is a better term, of course.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Oh--that makes sense. It's just that when someone says
Edited on Tue May-11-10 10:06 PM by tblue37
"behaviorists," I sort of automatically assume they mean a behaviorist psychologists specifically.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. The very presence of a frontal lobe is all the evidence they need
Edited on Tue May-11-10 11:01 AM by Skidmore
for being wired for acquisition of moral behavior. There is enough evidence from research on brain injury to support that damage to the frontal lobes affect moral judgment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. a baby hearing another crying will cry with it.
they will burst into tears of empathy. I've seen it done with our own ones. and babies understand each other no matter what language their parents speak up to about six months, then they break off into their parents' home language. must be a hold over in survival when all kids were together and someone watched them as their parents hunted/gathered.

truth to be told, babies are awesome as those pictures show.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. wonderful! thanks for posting

and keep up your studies. the more we know the better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. You know the religious will argue
that this is proof there is a god.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. LOL! I was thinking it proved one could be moral without being religious! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. i feel morality is not a religious issue. it is a within of right and wrong. and ethics
is outside of self, right and wrong.

i accidently used morality once and was jumped on by so many, because they took it for a religious word. i sure dont like that religion is allowed to own the word. per so many posters on du against religion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Agreed on all points.
Particularly that we on the left allow words and phrases to be co-opted by religious conservatives. Another that comes immediately to mind is "pro-life." No, they're not pro-life, they're pro-fetus. Most have absolutely no interest in that child's life once it passes through the birth canal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. words matter. the republican party recognize. i never allow "pro life" to stand.
the get anti abortion. and i get pro choice.

their cause is against abortion.

my cause is not for abortion. i dont like abortion. but i am for choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. That new movie "Babies" should be fascinating.
Edited on Tue May-11-10 09:58 AM by Uncle Joe
Thanks for the thread, BurtWorm.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
9. watching babies and kids develop, i knew that they had a sense of right and wrong
fairness. and what i saw over the time was societal and experience conditioning and shift them away from what was natural. i have spent my parenting time reinforcing the children stay true to nature and their innate feel..... reject the outside conditioning.

i never bought into the narcissistic and moral-less assumption of children. i didn't see it in my kids. i saw th opposite. i told a group of my kids and nephews and nieces at 3, 4, 6, 8..... they were more a learning lesson for me, than i was for them. these children came into my life when i was older, so at an older age, i got to see a whole different perspective and i had the time and patience to be able to be a part of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. unfortunately, many of us do "begin life as amoral animals"
we call them "republicans".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Most of them end up that way anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. I read an article a couple of years ago about a study
that showed that some animals (dogs, for example) also have a sense of justice and fairness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Yes, I read that too.
Not sure if it is the same one you read, but it involved observing their reactions when treats were given in an inequitable manner. Of course I have already been well-trained by my cats to make sure everyone gets treats, but now I know it is for real! LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. That sounds like the same study. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
17. Religion has no claim to being the origin of morality. Period. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. i found with the teaching of religion i had to bring kids to innate morality
in deciphering what was being taught. my kids went to a private christian school, so from the youngest of ages, as they are taught religion i asked them what they felt in their heart, with contradictions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
39. Especially since religion is created by humans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
25. The instinct of empathy is innate. (Except in the very few who are psychopaths.)
But it can be, and too often it is, snuffed out. The result is commonly known as "jerk".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NM_hemilover Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. haven't read or watched the link yet,
but the little girl in the picture has beautiful eyes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Yes, she does! Mesmerizing!
:loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
31. What a fascinating article
As the mother of a five week old, I found this riveting. Thanks for posting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. You're so lucky!
The first year is so amazing to witness. Actually, the second is pretty fascinating too, when language starts to flow out of their little mouths and you begin to hear what these amazing little creatures have been thinking about what they're experiencing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. i am having a blast with my 15 yr old.
you say the first year.... well second too. the funny in raising my kids is each step has been a blast. so i hear ya
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. My 14 year old is pretty adorable, I have to admit.
But she's a little more stingy sharing what she's been learning, if you know what I mean. ;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. this is true.
i have one kid that lets me watch his development, always has.... walking side by side. he does, but i get to know, understand and experience. i have another child that has always held close to vest, so i hear ya.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Couldn't agree more
The first year is so amazing to witness. Actually, the second is pretty fascinating too

I also have a 3.5 year old. We have a recording of her "talking" from January 2009. It was little more than gobbly-gook as she was only about 26 months at the time. By April/May of that same year, the difference in her speech was absolutely unreal. Gobbly-gook turned into complete sentences and properly conjugated verbs so fast my husband and I couldn't believe it. And now, at 3 she speaks better than some 30 year olds I know. :)

I swear, sometimes you can actually see their little minds churning, growing, and processing things. Children are absolutely amazing (and mine are especially so but every parent feels that way). :)

On a completely unrelated note, my 5-week old laughs in her sleep. I would give anything to know what she dreams about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. yea number......
so happy for you. get some sleep and enjoy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. lol Thanks! Like I told my hubby the other night when our angel was wailing at 3 am
"sleep is like a drug I simply cannot get enough of." :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC