There really is no equivalence between the conservatives and progressives

[MrScorpio]

On the fact alone they they're all too comfortable with so many lying, hypocritical bastards in their midst, that should be the single most important reason why right wingers should never be trusted.

Progressives may fight amongst each other and quibble about OPINIONS, but FACTS are always considered the final arbiter.

The Corporate Media will never admit to this, which demonstrates why they are all too complicit in keeping most people in this country woefully uniformed.

[RandomThoughts]

1. And why listening to music is the best way.

Since you can't make a decision on bad information, and PR systems know that.

So I try to enjoy the music and avoid any blow back from such things.

[chillspike]

2. Thank you...

I'm so sick of some liberals dumping on democratic politicians...Let's weaken our party's political opponents first then judge our politicians. Most voters have no clue what dems are fighting with on the other side of the aisle.

We have great politicians on our side: Grayson, Weiner, Franken, Pelosi, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Obama, Conyers, Shumer, Frank, Shelia Jackson Lee so many etc.

Republicans are a total bunch of fucking thieving liars, hypocrites and soulless corporate sellouts.

[arthritisR_US]

3. the OP and what you have stated both echo my sentiments and I TY both! To me

the hypocrisy of the right bespeaks of the fact that have no values period. A very dangerous place to be.

[William Z. Foster]

4. it does weaken the right wing

Opposing Democratic party politicians when they move to the right does "weaken our party's political opponents."

Demanding loyalty to Democratic party politicians no matter what they do strengthens the right wing.

Notice that we don't hear this lament when people criticize Democrats for moving to the left, only when they are criticized for moving to the the right.

Are we to believe that criticizing Democrats for moving to the right hurts the party and helps the Republicans, yet criticizing Democrats for expressing left wing points of view - which happens constantly right here - does not hurt the party or help the Republicans? So moving to the right hurts the right, but moving to the left helps the right? What sort of sense does that make?

Apparently the "you are hurting the party when you criticize Democrats" complaints are actually just a covert way to promote and defend the party moving to the right.

[chillspike]

5. What would be the worst that could happen if....

...we voted the Republican party out of existence no matter how much democrats displease you?

The worst that could happen is we would be rid of these Republican fucktards for good and the democratic party would split into two camps. One center left and the other left left. So what's the problem?

Vote the way you want but I will NEVER vote republican. I would never give them any power by my own hand.

I think it's the liberals who engage in protest votes that keep this endless battle with republicans going on and on.

We need to vote the republican party into extinction. They are a bunch of dinosaurs anyway.

[William Z. Foster]

8. doesn't work that way

The parties evolve and have even switched positions in the past. Party loyalty is a poor replacement for standing by and fighting for principles and ideals. Using the idiocy of other party as the only reason to support a party - "at least they are better than those Republicans!" - is extremely weak and ineffective.

What is the worst thing that could happen? Let's take an example from history.

Beginning in the 1850's the Republican party was the more "liberal" or left wing party. They opposed slavery, promoted equal rights, supported public education and investment in public infrastructure, defended immigrants, all of which the Democratic party of that time opposed. But gradually the party changed until by the early 20th century the Republican party had come to represent the interests of the Robber Barons, the monopolists, the big money people, the investors and owners. Yet many people continued to support the Republican party - "at least they are better than the Democrats! The Democrats were in favor of slavery!!"

The Democratic party has been steadily moving to the right for decades now. What is the worst thing that could happen? A bunch of us could be dragged to the right along with them, out of party loyalty. That is what we are seeing happen, as a perusal of comments right here will demonstrate. Every single position of the right wing is being promoted here by Democrats - privatization, supply side economics, regressive taxation, suspension of civil rights, police state solutions to social problems, anti-immigrant hysteria, racism, homophobia and sexism, and we are seeing relentless attacks on public education and on Labor. Not only do people deny that these positions are contradictory to what the party once stood for, they treat any and all who object to this move to the right as though they were the problem, as though they were being disloyal and should be ignored or driven out of the party.

[chillspike]

9. but I don't beleive the dems move to the right is a sincere move to the right

...i think it just a strategy for dealing with their political opponents...if the right was whittled down i believe the dems of today would have enough breathing room to pursue their professed policies....call me gullible but i don't believe the dems of today are phonies personally...i think the power struggle with the right is a struggle to retain power and they must be careful to walk a fine line until they can triumph over their political opponents...whatever they do, the republicans will use it to bring pressure on them ...so it's a game and the dems know it's a game until the republican fuckers are beaten...i believe the dems want left ideas to prevail but they need to retain power doing it or it's all for naught because if the repubs get back in they will roll back as much as they can...it's a game to pass as much as you can bit by bit while also being careful to try and retain control so you are in power to make future changes...if you make too much at once the political blow back could undermine your power to be in control and chan ge things for the better...

[William Z. Foster]

11. thanks

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

You nailed it. The Democrats' move to the right is being presented as "just a strategy for dealing with their political opponents" in the hope that "the right will whittled down" so that "the dems of today would have enough breathing room to pursue their professed policies." We must then also think that the Democrats are not phonies - are not lying to us - and that in their heart of hearts they are on our team and are the good guys, and more importantly we have to believe that this matters, that politics is a matter of personal beliefs and what is in people's hearts.

Then, given all of that, we can imagined some grand and complex strategy by the Democrats - sort of pretending to be right wing, tacking to the right, compromising with the right, all so that they can steal the right wingers' thunder, weaken them. and then at some strategic point at some vague time in the future pouncing! and turning into left wingers and conquering all before the on behalf of the working people.

Yep.

Of course, if they really did ant to move to the right, if they really were working for the wealthy and powerful, actually were misleading us, and wanted to lull us into going along with that, then it would all look exactly the way it does now. Exactly.

[earth mom]

6. There is corruption on both sides of the aisle. Dems have been elected who aren't really dems.

People need to wake up and see that Washington DC is a cesspool owned by Corporate America.

[Dr Morbius]

7. Well, hey, I'd rather vote for a good Republican than a bad Democrat.

But there aren't any good Republicans. None I can think of, anyway. Some iffy ones, maybe. None running in my state: we've got Mark Kirk poised to win Obama's former Senate seat.

[chillspike]

10. as i was telling someone else...

i don't believe the dems are corrupt...i think they are sincere to pursue left leaning policies but if you move left too much too fast you risk losing power...so the game is to move left, but also to retain power doing it...you don't go all out left until your political opponents (repubs) are more whittled down in size and subdued....

[William Z. Foster]

12. in other words...

Throw a bunch of us to the lions to eat, because they are really opposed to the lions and don't want to see us eaten, but if they don't throw a few of us to the lions then the lions will get really angry and eat all of us. But the Democrats are really NOT the sort of people who throw people to the lions - just listen to their lovely speeches, and keep thinking how much better than the Republicans they are! - so please don't think that they are the kind of people who throw others to the lions just because they are throwing us to the lions. This clever strategy will throw the lions off guard, and then at the right moment when the lions get overconfident, THEN the Democrats will swing into action and slay the lions and save all of us - just you wait and then watch them go! You will hardly recognize them anymore! So just be patient and cross your fingers and hope that you aren't one of those selected for lion food. This strategy takes decades and decades to actually play out, and meanwhile things will get worse and worse and more and people will be eaten by the lions, and the lions get fatter and fatter and more and more powerful, but don't be distracted by any of that! Eyes on the prize!

But it wouldn't be prudent at this time to actually fight the lions or save any of the people who are being eaten. Besides, the lions give the Democrats so much money for their campaigns! Not that this influences them at all, don't start thinking THAT!