Just wondering. If the Catholic Priests had been abusing girls instead of boys,

[LiberalLoner]

would you still be as outraged by the behavior of the church and the subsequent cover up?

I have a theory. I think if the stories coming out had been all about girls being abused, the world would have found a way of discounting the stories, blaming the victims, giggling in delight at the stories of abuse, and otherwise giving a big "eff you" to the victims.

[provis99]

1. I would, but the meda and general public would not.

For evidence, see the lurid story of the founder of Legionnaires for Christ, who is being criticized for molesting altar boys, but not so much for molesting young girls and impregnating at least six of them, in addition to his drug use, gambling, loan sharking, and violent extortion ring.

[LiberalLoner]

3. Oh, good example, and it supports my theory, thank you! :) n/t

[backscatter712]

11. That sums things up right there.

I'd be outraged at the abuse of any child, but of course, the media, the politicians and other assholes would indeed turn a blind eye to girls being abused.

[Touchdown]

2. I would... but I'm outraged by the Inquisition.

Maybe you should ask a catholic.:shrug:

EDIT: Yeah I know, but the flag isn't really a given anymore. I'm one of the orangies.

[LiberalLoner]

4. The Inquisition sucked, for sure! :) n/t

[keroro gunsou]

21. well, maybe that's because

nobody expected the spanish inquisition....

[Radical Activist]

22. Or the endorsement of slavery and genocide in the new world.

I really don't understand how the scandal can damage the image of the Catholic Church. What image does it have to begin with?

[Mojambo]

5. Gender is irrelevant. They are abusing CHILDREN.

Boys or girls. It's just as abominable.

I can't speak to how the "world" would have reacted if it had been girls.

Most of the religions have been pretty shitty towards women generally, so yeah, maybe if it were only the girls it would have seemed more in the normal course of things.

[Captain Hilts]

9. Yes, but popular culture is more worried about gay men abusing boys than straight ones

after girls.

[defendandprotect]

58. Hetereosexual males are 100X more likely to sexually abuse children . . .

than homosexual males!

Also : The right-wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."

Nonetheless, Vatican and US Catholic Bishops seem to continue to try to blame the scandal

on homosexual priests!





-----------------------





From "same-sex -- marriage in the United States
Focus on the Facts" -- Sean Cahill, PH.D
Lexington Books -- 2004
See: Footnote

A 1998 Study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual.

Research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are less likely than heteeosexual to sexually abuse children.

Perhaps the most egregious and damaging claim promulgaed by anti-gay groups is the claim that homosexuality is intrinisically linked to pedophiia and child sexual abuse.
The social science research on sexual orientation and child sexual abuse clearly disproves the claim that homosexuals are more likely to molest children. A 1998 study in the Journal of the American Medical Assocation found that 90% of pedophiles are men, and 95% of these individuals are hetereosexual. One researcher explained this statistic by noting, "Gay men desire consensual sexual relations with other adult men. Pedophiles are usually adult men who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. They are rarely sexually attracted to other adults. In fact, research has indicated that gay men and lesbians are LESS likely than heterosexuals to sexually abuse children. Two studies that examined the sexual orientation of convicted child molesters found that less than 1% in one study and 0% in the other were lesbian or gay. One psychologist reviewed the existing social science literature on the relationship between sexuality and child sexual abuse and found that "a gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children." Further, "cases of perpetration of sexual behavior with a pre-pubescent child by an adult lesbian are virtually nonexistent."

Gay rights activists, like all advocates for children's welfare, oppose child sexual abuse and support equitable age of consent laws that help prevent and punish such abuse.

At least 110,000 children are waiting to be adopted in the US. Approximately 588,000 children are currently in foster care. Barring gay men and lebians from adopting or foster parenting decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Children who remain in foster care for much of their childhood, as do tens of thousands of American children, are more likely to have emotional problems. Some children in foster care live in 20 or more homes by the time they reach the age of 18. Barring gay men and lesbians from adopting or foster parenting is not simply unjust and unethical; it also decreases the number of potential suitable homes for children in need.
Research shows that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are not disadvantaged vis-a-vis their peers raised by hetereosexual parents.

Footnote 65 -- p.123
A review of 352 medical records of children evaluated for sexual abuse during a 12-month period at a Denver chidlren's hospital found that less than 1% had been abused by a gay man or a lesbian. Of 269 adult perpetrators of child abuse identified among the 352 cases of abuse, only two were gay or lesbian. The vast majority of the children in the study (82%) "were suspected of being abused by a man or a woman who was, or had been, in a hetereosexual relationship with a relative of the child." And the review concluded that in this sample, " a child's risk of being molested by his or her relative's heterosexual partner is over 100X greater by someone who might be identifiable as being homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual."
Jenny, C., and Roesler, T.A. (1994)
Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics. 94(1).p.44.
In an earlierstudy of convicted male child molesters in Massachusetts, none of the 175 men were found to have an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation orto be primarily attracted to other adult men.
Groth, A.N., and Birnbaum, H.J. (1978).
Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons.
Archives of Sexual Behavior.7(3).pp.175-181.

Also : The right-wing "Family Research Council" notes/confirms findings that "almost all child sexual abuse is committed by men."

[Kitty Herder]

10. That's the point the OP is trying to make.

Gender is irrelevant. But many people react differently based on the gender of the child. And that's wrong.

[Arkana]

6. How about no?

I'd have been no less outraged, no less angry, and no less desirous of the Catholic Church being swallowed up into a black hole.

[MichiganVote]

7. Well guess what Sherlock...the world DID discount the females, giggle,

blame the girls and give a hearty heave ho to any female who dared to tattle on the priesties. ANd they still are considered the sluts in place of "Father".

[Kitty Herder]

12. Yep.

And we seldom hear about it.

[MichiganVote]

57. Got that right.

[Captain Hilts]

8. It would seem more 'normal'. Young girls are abused in larger percentages. nt

[LiberalLoner]

13. That's what I was thinking. I remember a friend who admitted her abuse to me - she told me

how her and her brother would get raped by a relative when he was babysitting them both. Her mother later told her, when the girl tried to confront her about why she didn't stop the abuse, that it was okay it happened to her "because that's what girls are for" but that the abuse of the boy was a terrible, wrong thing and she would have stopped THAT if only she had known.

My friend decided at that point to having nothing more to do with her mother. Good decision I thought.

[Lilith Velkor]

42. "that's what girls are for"

It's rare to see someone admit it so bluntly, but that's the underlying attitude behind the lack of outrage, right there in a nutshell.

[harry_pothead]

44. Who fucking says that to their own kid?

[LiberalLoner]

47. Oh, you would be amazed at what people say/do to their own kids, LOL n/t

[harry_pothead]

54. Especially religious-righters.

[LiberalLoner]

15. I would like a world where it wasn't quite so "normal" to rape little girls. n/t

[Captain Hilts]

19. The % of girls who get, at minimum, molested is stunning. nt

[JI7]

14. girls have been abused by the church

[iris27]

16. Well, considering they have been abusing both, and the news coverage

has all been focused on the boys, I'd say your theory is correct.

[TorchTheWitch]

17. they were abusing BOTH boys and girls

But you miraculously never hear about the abuse of girls... to the point where people even here have forgotten it wasn't just boys being abused.

[Walk away]

18. That's disgusting. nt

[rox63]

20. There have been plenty of girls abused by priests

A pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile, whether they abuse boys or girls. Most men who abuse boys identify as straight. It's not about gender, it's about power.

[LiberalLoner]

23. True. It's not even about sex, it's about hurting someone powerless. n/t

[defendandprotect]

62. It's that old "domination" thing -- a turn on for many males . . .

highly prevalent feature of pornography --

[Quantess]

24. No, I don't think it's that simple. (no text)

[merh]

25. Uninformed, aren't you?

What About the Girls? Boys aren't the only victims of the Catholic Church's sex-abuse scandal.

The Forgotten Victims Of Priest Sexual Abuse: Girls

That's just a couple of articles on the topic.

The abuse of children has been covered up for years. That is what the outrage is all about, the fact that priests abuse children and the church doesn't punish the priests, they just cover up the scandal.

[Initech]

26. Child molestation is child molestation, period.

[LiberalLoner]

27. I agree with you, I hate it all, but society seems to look the other way when girls are involved.

[harry_pothead]

45. Here's something I don't get:

Some 23 year old meets a 15 year old on myspace, they go a hotel room and fuck. The federal marshals are all over it and the guy is charged with 13 different crimes.

But when a 6 year old gets molested by some relative or parent or family friend, no one gives a shit - least of all the police.

Riddle me that piece of hypocrisy.

[LiberalLoner]

48. You are right - Vachhs talks about that, says you get a break in America if you grow your own

victims. It's so true. If it is YOUR kid you get to do whatever because YOUR kid (just like YOUR wife) is your property and you can do whatever you like to your property without interference.

[defendandprotect]

61. Believe the riddle is involved in patriarchy's enemies list . . . nature, women, children . . .

When females are oppressed they cannot carry out their rightful role in protecting

children.

While most of us would still consider a 15 year old as "child to be protected" she

is not as dismissable to patriarchy as the 6 year old.

[defendandprotect]

60. One in 3 females and 1 in 5 males are sexually abused as children

Approximately 15% to 25% of women and 5% to 15% of men were sexually abused when they were children

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse

We've also had confirmed what women have always known: rape is a tool of war.


Meanwhile, the greatest betrayal of women came from Freud who understood from his female

patients that they were suffering sexual abuse by fathers and other male relatives --

However, Freud reversed this into the Oedipus Complex --

The Oedipus complex, in psychoanalytic theory, is a group of largely unconscious ideas and feelings which centre around the desire to possess the parent of the opposite sex and eliminate the parent of the same sex.

Freud did what patriarchy traditionally does: turns the world upside down with a lie!


I'm not aware of what he may have known of young boys being sexually abused by males/relatives.

But the theory covers both young girls and boys --

[seabeyond]

28. the thing is.... girls have been being abused and theirs have not been a story even heard

until very recently.

so not only is your theory correct, and evident since we never heard it; but, it is much worse because the evidence is there and we havent even heard it. ony the male on male.

[LiberalLoner]

29. Yes. That bothers me. It doesn't seem right to me that girls being raped should be seen as okay.

[seabeyond]

30. no, it doesnt seem right. i agree. nt

[LiberalLoner]

35. I want to ask, do girls matter? Are girls people? Or just things? n/t

[seabeyond]

40. we have created a culture of dehumanizing female at the youngest of age

we teach our girls to dehumanize themselves. we teach our boys to dehumanize girls. as adults we certainly do a fine job of it. and many women embrace the dehumanizing, thinking that it means "they like me, they really like me". and really.... just a thing, to be used

it is in our culture. our language. in our titles on serious subjects in the news (fuck the virgin, bikini graph, girl on girl fight in subway). it is what managers of team sports say to men they recruit (is your mama a prostitute). all over the place, we have created a society of dehumanizing females and then say. wha wha....????

[TransitJohn]

41. .....

in our titles on serious subjects in the news (fuck the virgin, bikini graph, girl on girl fight in subway)

I must be reading the wrong journals and watching the wrong channels.

[seabeyond]

49. fuck the virgin was an indepth about offshore oil drilling, relevent and good using womens sexuality

bikini graph was maddows employment graph, on tv, on du and first comment from poster was about going down on women, and the girl on girl fight in subway was NY times about a couple girls getting in a fight. i have never heard mention of "boy on boy" fight.....

i could go on about a small town hit by economic woes and title women forced to strippin for a job, when one person in the whole damn article talking about the economy of the town made a comment only ads in newspaper were strip jobs.

dancer get naked.... when it had nothing to do with that and one comment about getting naked and ignoring the whole 7 minute interview of others....

[TransitJohn]

55. Uh, what?

Are you drunk?

[seabeyond]

56. what, what? you said you have never heard of these titles. i am telling you where to

find these titles. what do you mean, what?

[TransitJohn]

59. I couldn't decipher you mangling of English.

The incoherent run on, coupled with its non-punctuation, didn't convey anything like titles of articles to me.

[LiberalLoner]

50. The biggest insult in the Army is to call a soldier a "p@ssy" n/t

[seabeyond]

51. yes. nt

[defendandprotect]

63. Well, corporations have "personhood" . . . females do not have full personhood under

our Constitution -- !!!

Male-supremacist Vatican also does not acknowledge the full personhood of females

as it acknowledges the full personhood of males!

:eyes:

[Lucian]

31. Well of course I'd still be outraged.

No one deserves to be abused, whether it be little girls/boys, or adults.

[MindandSoul]

32. I was an 11 year old GIRL when I was molested by a priest.

[LiberalLoner]

36. And everyone blamed YOU for it, right? And told you to shut up? n/t

[defendandprotect]

64. Were you able to tell anyone about it at the time?

[MindandSoul]

65. No, No one. . .except when I went to confession. . .to another priest!

I know, it sounds crazy. . .but I needed the reassurance that I wouldn't go to hell!!!

What damage we can impose on kids because of religion!

[defendandprotect]

66. Understand . . .

I'm an old Catholic school girl myself, but fortunately only trauma was the teachings!!

Still, I find it disturbing that so many parents put their kids into this kind of

brainwashing at an age where they haven't even begun to understand their own conscience.

:)

[WhiteTara]

33. we'll soon find out. The girls' stories are just

beginning. The floodgates have opened and the stories are starting. It isn't as news worthy as boys, since girls are raped fairly regularly.
http://www.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/latest-priest-molestation-victim-teenage-girl
Latest alleged priest molestation victim is a teenage girl

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2006/03_04/2006_03_06_Nevans_VictimsRecall.htm
Victims Recall Abuse: Girls Also Victims of Molestation by Catholic Priests

http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/17890/ex-priest-gets-two-years-for-molesting-girls
Ex-priest gets two years for molesting girls

and these were just the first three stories from a rudimentary google search.

[TransitJohn]

34. You are an intellectual loner as well asa liberal loner. n/t

n/t

[704wipes]

37. not if they were blonde and blue-eyed ?

then again, maybe not.

[LiberalLoner]

38. You bring up a good point - do we care as much about abused children who are not the dominant

race in a culture? Do we tend to not care if it's a female being victimized, or a non-white? Do we tend to not care if the child comes from low socioeconomic circumstances?

I think we tend to care more about male children, white children, and children of upper class or middle class backgrounds.

[LiberalLoner]

39. And it fits in with the whole world view that I think is common here in the U.S. that some

people matter and some people don't. People who die in coal mines? Well they are just lowly worker bees, they don't matter...that same line of thought is used to shrug indifferently when stories come out of girls being raped.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. There were girls abused, too.

True enough, mostly boys. But it was not exclusively boys.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

46. What makes you think they were not?

[Posteritatis]

52. The fact that this thread exists says something interesting about the media coverage of the mess

By and large people are assuming at this point that "catholic clergy abusing children" and "catholic clergy abusing boys" are synonymous or close enough to same to not really matter much. Now, I know that that's not the case, as the abuse situations in my neck of the woods and near the previous town I lived in were, ah, less picky about things, but a lot of the ways in which people have talked about abusers in the church for years and years have been slanted in a way that dropped a lot of the victims right off the radar.

[jgraz]

53. .