Without Immigrants, NYC's Economy Would Collapse

[Yavin4]

The tri-state area surrounding NYC is one the most expensive places to live on planet earth. There are no cheap places to live, yet there are hundreds of thousands of jobs that must be performed, most of which won't pay enough to afford cost of living here. That's where immigrant labor comes in. They take the jobs, janitor, busboy, maids, nannies, taxi drivers, etc., that don't pay cost of living wages.

I remember talking with a cab driver in Las Vegas, and he was telling me about how he was buying a house. I guarantee you that the taxidrivers in NYC cannot afford to buy property any where near the tri state area.

[KittyWampus]

1. So? NYC is one of the most liberal places on the planet. Also, Brooklyn is affordable in places.

As are areas of the Bronx.

Oh, and NJ and CT have affordable areas too.

Maybe not ritzy, but affordable.

[Yavin4]

3. You've Probably Have Not Been Here Recently

I know someone who is sharing an apartment in East NY in Brooklyn, an area that saw arson fires in the 1970s, and she's paying $1300 a month in rent.

And if you move to CT and NJ and have to commute in, you're paying about $200 to $300 a month just in commuting costs.

[KittyWampus]

7. I am actively looking at real estate in those areas. I am in NY, btw. Off the top of my head>

Marine Park or even better bargains in Bedford Stuyvesant. You just have to be able to co-exist with people.

And those buildings are generally big enough to set up a basement or garden level apartment to help pay for taxes/insurance.

Also helps if you're willing to put in time for sweat equity and share the space with extended family.

[Donnachaidh]

4. so what if it's liberal -- it's ELITIST in all the worst ways

Working class people are getting run out so latte liberals can practice gentrification on a grand scale. The wealthy in the city are part of the problem in this country, regardless of their *liberal* labels.

Elites don't want to acknowledge the class warfare going on in NY. It makes them look bad, and rightly so.

[Yavin4]

5. We Have A Billionaire Mayor

Who thinks millionaires are middle class. In the past 10 years, the city has seen high rise luxury condos go up all over, and yet, the city is cutting services left and right because of budget deficits. I wonder where all of the property tax money from these condos are going?

[dkf]

2. Are you lumping legal and illegal immigrants together?

You really shouldn't.

[FreakinDJ]

6. Still a "Net Loss" to the economy

[jobycom]

8. Our country would collapse, too.

I've worked with taxes a lot this year, specifically with immigrants (legal and illegal). We take in hundreds of millions, maybe more, in taxes from legal and illegal immigrants each year. Illegal immigrants can file for refunds, but often don't, and as a result they wind up paying more than most of use per working dollar.

That's the little secret about why government really doesn't want to do anything much about illegal immigration, except stir up people's fears with stories about hospitals and schools and such. (Fears that work here, too, sadly). To really combat illegal immigration, the government would not only have to spend more than they've spent on the drug wars, but they'd also lose hundreds of millions a year in tax revenues. So would local communities, through sales and property taxes (paid directly as homeowners, or indirectly through the landlords taking their rent).

And while the conservative "They're taking our jobs!" argument sounds logical on the surface, even the smallest logical shovel can dig beneath that. Many jobs are created by the additional spending in the economy. Believe it or not, even illegal immigrants eat, sleep, buy clothes, visit DisneyWorld and Six Flags, buy their kids gifts, and all other things human consumers do. That spending creates jobs.

And while the jobs they take range throughout the economic spectrum--I've seen taxpayers I'm pretty sure were illegal making six figures--the majority take jobs that are more temporary. Building crews, restaurant labor, and other seasonal work and/or temporary work where bosses don't require documents because the labor won't be necessary long enough for anyone to catch up to them. These aren't jobs that American citizens are going to build their careers on, and if they did, the costs would have to go up dramatically. And while the stereotype of all illegal immigrants working these kinds of jobs gets old--I've seen tax returns from undocumented workers who have been in the same job ten years--there is enough truth in it to drive costs up if they stopped.

So in other words, if the government wanted to stop illegal immigration, they'd spend billions, lose billions in tax dollars, take an equal amount out of our economy, and cost Americans jobs at just the time prices were going up. It's a risk even the Republicans aren't dumb enough to take. So they make a lot of noise to stir up hatred--because as St. Ronnie used to say, we are only united when we share a common enemy (says all you need to know about that piece of shit)--take some measures to maybe hold illegal immigration to a certain level, and move on to the next enemy-du-jour.

If the rhetoric ever gets bad enough to inspire real change, we'll all suffer for it.

[Ganja Ninja]

9. It wouldn't just be NYC's economy.

It will hurt the economy of the whole country. And it isn't just about the cheap labor.

When I first moved to Florida over 20 years ago most if not all the commercial construction trades were done by Americans. Now most if not all the metal stud hangers, drywallers, masons, landscapers and concrete guys are Mexicans. A lot of the other trades are at least partially made up of Mexicans too. If they all left tomorrow it would take 2 years to find and train people to do these jobs. Not enough young Americans have experience at these trades.