Being a pacifist

[SocialistLez]

I sometimes struggle with supporting our troops and disagreeing with war.

Sure I agree we need a military to defend our country from foreign attacks but outside of that, I don't agree with imperialism or invading another country just because they aren't playing by our rules.

Whenever I see a military person, I struggle between wanting to thank them for their service and not saying anything.
I can understand thanking those who served in World War II but outside of that...uhm..

I just wanted to see how other pacifists feel and how they feel they "support the troops."

BTW, my dad is a veteran and is very supportive of my anti-war stance.

[xchrom]

1. I'm not pacifist per se -- I want to see fewer and people

Joining the military industrial complex.

While the motives of any one Individual might be good - the organization imo is not.

And I'm uncomfortable with nationalism period.

[RandomThoughts]

2. My view is a person that goes to war.

And is even violent, if he does it for a love of neighbors, family and friends as his intent, is doing right.

The issue is not that they go to war, it would be an education that can teach different ways of conflict resolution.

It is mostly intent. So soldiers on both sides of a battle field can be noble and good, living in the best of hearts, as they hack each other up. So where is the problem? Either the concept that people form armies easily. If there was more free thought, people would question some wars more. Or the problem that societies act in ways that lead to wars. Those issues are more education, or people with good intents following those with bad intents.

That's my view on it, took a long time to think on that, spent months on that question myself, but that is what I found to balance out my feelings of pacifism and still respect for many that act with good intent in war.

Its education and how people think that is the issue I think, not the individuals that do with good intent even if wrong. I also think a person knowing they have bad intent, that leads people with good intent to do wrong through deception, gets the blame of the bad actions of all those under him that person deceived. And actually if a person knowingly trains someone to do what is bad, there is fault there also.

I think that fits legal laws to, under intent being required for something to be wrong in social system. It may be called the good faith argument also.

[El Supremo]

3. All support of war is not just wrong, but insane.

WWII was very preventable. We just decided to fight WWI all over again.

Whenever I see a military person, I struggle between not saying anything or calling them murderers. However the National Guard is supposed to do mostly good things.

[shedevil69taz]

8. Please don't call random servicemembers

murderers. A lot of us even through multiple (since 2003 I have been deployed 40 months) deployments have never had to take another human life.

Not only that some of my fellow service members have far less impulse control than me and would end up taking violent action against you, and would not much care about the consequences.

[El Supremo]

11. Thanks for the threat by proxy.

And how many people have you helped kill, even if you didn't pull the trigger?

[proteus_lives]

12. Hateful.

:puke:

[shedevil69taz]

14. I wasn't threatening you even by proxy.

Simply stating I know the attitudes of a good deal of fellow service members. I do know if you were to insult me directly I do know you would have nothing to fear.

As to your question. There is no way for me to tell. If you want to know specifically the nature of the duties I perform I would be happy to explain it to you if you are interested.

[EFerrari]

16. It may well be that you aren't aware of the threat by proxy you posted

but that is exactly what it was rhetorically.

And why would civilians have to be re-assured that they have nothing to fear from the armed forces?

[RKP5637]

4. IMO wars have been becoming wars of choice. I also think there is a strong

undercurrent by the MIC to keep war on the front burner or just off it... jobs, weapons and wars / potential wars make for good business, jobs and a profitable bottom line. And a lot of the military personnel get sucked into serving... peer pressure, family pressure, and the pay/lack of a job. Sadly IMO the military is misused by politicians.

IMO absence of a draft keeps war out of sight out of mind. I've often asked flag wavers and hawks what branch of the service they served in, generally the answer is none. Most people I've known that served in the thick of war don't want to talk about it let alone wave the flag for war.

[SocialistLez]

5. I like a lot of the replies. Thank you. NT

[grantcart]

6. Do you also have a problem with professionally responsible Police officers who carry weapons?

I had friends who were Pacifists who were in Saigon working at the Mennonite Limb replacement clinic when the North Vietnamese Army took over.

They calmly went about their business and stayed a few years before leaving.

They had to admit that they were pleased when the North Vietnamese Army invaded Cambodia and stopped the massive killing of millions by the Khmer Rouge.

[shedevil69taz]

7. Quite frankly I don't think we should have ever gone

to Iraq or Afghanistan, but I don't get to make those decisions, and I did sign a dotted line so I go where I'm told and do my duty the best I can.

So being that most anyone ever thinks about these days are the two wars when they see a service member in uniform I don't blame anyone for passing by not saying anything. I feel really awkward infact finding myself saying: "oh you're welcome" over and over again passing through the Atlanta airport to the statement: "thank you for your service", and the clapping? It takes all my self control to not sprint out of the area as quickly as possible to get away from it, what's worse people don't realize half the time they're doing it is for troops that are on their way BACK to Iraq from just having spent two weeks with their families so we're feeling pretty shitty.

I take absolutely no offense to those that choose to not say anything to me when they see me in uniform. Infact on most occasions I preffer it that way.

[southern_belle]

10. Respectfully...

I do thank you and I really do mean it respectfully.

[G_j]

13. thanks for your insight

what you say makes perfect sense. I would probably feel the same.



Take care

[The Straight Story]

9. How about the President? He is a 'service member', volunteered for the job, and serves the US

And is the Commander in Chief. What would you say to him if you saw him somewhere?

People serve our govt in many capacities, being in the military does not make them for war - but they swore to do the job they were told to do - how can one blame them?

Congress and the prez make and fund wars. No one else to blame but them.

[proteus_lives]

15. Pacifist is one of those terms I've always rolled around in my head.

I would be one if I believed in utopias but I don't. I believe you never start fights but you have to be ready to defend yourself. On the nation-wide level we should always work towards peace and hope for peace but be ready to make war if that is the responsible and right decision.

" don't agree with imperialism or invading another country just because they aren't playing by our rules."

I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. There are just and unjust wars. It's not just WWII good, everything else: bad. But it's open to debate and discussion. Take the Korean conflict for example. America was not directly threatened by NK's invasion of the South but the alliances and global policies we established led that action to be intolerable to the U.S. Plus South Korea didn't want to be absorbed into a totalitarian communist dictatorship.

"Whenever I see a military person, I struggle between wanting to thank them for their service and not saying anything."

Another sticky thing. It's true that there serious problems with the way our military is used but the fact remains that they are serving you as an American citizen. They would put themselves between you and danger. They take an oath and most of them take it very seriously. It very possible to support the soldier and not the war. Because the vast, vast majority of them do their duty, uphold the tenets of honor they study and are good men and women.

[EFerrari]

18. The fact doesn't remain that they are serving their fellow Americans.

The fact is, that is what they are told.

The fact is, they are defending corporate interests much of the time and not us at all.

That is an insult to our service men and women who are used as rent-a-cops for Exxon et all and to us, the actual tax payers who not only put in our taxes but also our sons and daughters.

[proteus_lives]

19. I agree and disagree.

Like I said earlier, there serious problems with the way our military is used.

But it is also true that by the oaths they take and the fact they would fight and die for us, they serve the American people. Like LEOs, firefighters, rescue services.

[EFerrari]

17. I am a pacifist and I have no problem at all

countering nationalists when they say I'm against the troops.

It's the Pentagon that is against the troops, not me. I've never sent another human being into a useless armed conflict to benefit my cronies. My grandfather was an officer, my father served in Korea and you know what, that whole line of bs leaves me cold.

Bring them home NOW.