Pictures of a Conservative's View of 'Paradise'...

[AnArmyVeteran]

Conservatives mindlessly chant "Drill baby, Drill!" while also being against any regulations to prevent environmental disasters. If we lived in an environment controlled completely by conservatives our environment would look like a sewer, with our air, land and water all contaminated.

GW Bush, as governor of Texas, gave 830 exemptions to the worst polluters in Texas to let them avoid complying with environmental laws designed to protect people. The result: Texas became the #1 State in air, soil and water pollution. And this is what conservatives want to do to the entire country. Incidences of deaths of Texans of people with compromised immune systems, people with respiratory diseases, infants and the elderly rose dramatically under Bush's assault on the Texas environment and citizenry. But Bush & conservatives didn't care. All Bush wanted was the huge amounts of campaign cash he received from the companies which were dumping their toxic materials into the Texas environment.

[n2doc]

1. but....but...but... that's for them OTHER folks

Here's where WE live










Lots of nice, clean water for us!

[AnArmyVeteran]

5. Hey n2doc, how do you insert slide shows like in your post?

[n2doc]

6. That was just a gif animation I found - pasted link like the others n/t

[AnArmyVeteran]

44. Thanks for the tip...

[NoNothing]

2. Cooling towers aren't toxic

Just saying.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. No, it's the little buildings next to them that are. nt

[AnArmyVeteran]

4. You are right, but Three Mile Island could have been another Chernobyl...

Chernobyl will be contaminated for generations, or hundreds of thousands of years. What if we had nuclear reactors all over the US and they were sabotaged or malfunctioned? You are right about water cooling towers not being dangerous, but the picture is representative of that almost catastrophic disaster at Three Mile Island.

BTW: Even after 240,000 years (10 half lives) 'only' 0.1% of Plutonium-239 will remain at Chernobyl. It's estimated that in 720,000 years, or 30 half lives, it should be safe.

(Source BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/4946456.stm)

In my opinion, I believe anyone who supports building more nuclear facilities should be forced to live within five miles of one. Same goes for any other potentially disastrous business. Yes, that includes President Obama...

[Statistical]

7. So you ive wihin 5 miles of ...

slaughterhouse
refinery
paper mill
landfill
waste treament plant
etc.

right?

How about be build more nuclear reactors at EXISTING nuclear plants. There is room for 87 more reactors at our 52 existing nuclear plants.

[AnArmyVeteran]

8. No to all but one... But none of those can have a nuclear meltdown...

...and contaminate an area for 800,000 years like a nuclear power plant can. But if a 'safe' nuclear power plant can be built then I'd support their use. If 87 more reactors can be built at 52 existing sites and could provide a safe source of power that would be fine. But building a new nuclear facility costs billions. I wonder how many wind, solar or other alternate energy sources could be built with all that money, and pose absolutely no danger to the inhabitants near them. We need to have a green energy revolution on the scale of effort to get to the moon. The cost would be well worth it and we would have power sources for generations.

[Statistical]

9. You are aware Chernobyl had no containment building right.

US reactors do. US reactors are very safe with no public deaths in the 5 decades of operation.
Even occupational death rate is far lower than any other form of energy (in terms of deaths per GWh).

[AnArmyVeteran]

10. No, but are they as effective as the cut off switches at off shore oil rigs?

Just wondering. I'll have to do some more research on how a nuclear reactor is built. You seem to be very familiar with them. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but have you worked at one? BTW, where and how is the radioactive waste stored?

[Statistical]

11. No but I did work for the DOE on analytical work dealing with nuclear weapons.

Simulation on effects of age of key components. Lots of our nuclear weapons are getting very very old and since we don't use them it is a big issue to ensure that safeguards aren't compromised with age.

I think if you did some research on nuclear reactors you might be surprised.

As far as waste. He is a photo from a nuclear reactor which was decommissioned after 3 decades of providing safe, clean, reliable power.



Another view of the site after decommissioning.



Here is the entire spent fuel for 3 decades of power. Roughly equal to about 2000 1 MW turbines.


Close up of spent fuel yard.


We do need a deep geological repository for spent fuel however the amount of energy in uranium is amazing.

Generally speaking all the power you (as part of a family of 4) will use in an entire lifetime 70 years if all provided by nuclear energy is roughly one cubic centimeter (one inches by one inch by one inch).

Now think about your entire lifetime of other waste. Landfill waste, junked cars, construction waste, chemical waste, sewage, human waste, etc. It is possible for us to put politics aside and safely store spent fuel until it can be used as fuel source for a whole new generation of reactors.

[AnArmyVeteran]

26. Thanks for the post. It was informative. But what happened at Rocky Flats?

Isn't that land contaminated forever around that site? I know that place was used for weapon-related nuclear materials, but I remember people and the area around there being harmed. Is there ever a safe way to process and store nuclear wastes? You mentioned sewage, human waste and trash in landfills, but just about all of that is biodegradable and will safely be returned to natural substances. Radioactive wastes can't be flushed down a toilet.

[Statistical]

28. The land has no higher radiation than background.

Here is some more information on the dismantling of Connecticut Yankee.
http://www.connyankee.com/

As part of NRC oversight 68 monitoring wells have been dug and will be monitored for roughly a decade. If no containment are detected (both radiological and chemical contaminants are monitored) then the site is considered "green field" which means in same condition as before plant was built. It can be used for any other purpose after that.

As far as the fuel. Yes it needs to be stored in a safe manner but the casks are very thick. Concrete with inner liner of steel. They weight about 150 tons. Radiation material is contained. The casks are airtight and filled with an inert gas.

While there is some radiation exposure being within 10 feet of the casks it isn't lethal.


1 hour around the casks is roughly equal to 1/20th of an xray.

[madokie]

16. Be careful with that is all I can say

My leg is still wet from the last pissing down my leg telling me it was raining all the while, if you get my drift

[benEzra]

45. Not to mention the flammable graphite moderator, Opposite-Day control rods,

and overrideable safety systems.

France is a whole lot more energy-independent (and less carbon dependent) than we are, and the fact that 70-80% of their power, including the electricity to run those marvelous trains of theirs, comes from clean and safe nuclear plants is a big part of that.

[madokie]

14. Why do you only see those kind of cooling towers on nuke plants?

Could it be to get the plume up away from the civilians down directly below to give the plume time to disperse somewhat? Seriously why do only nuke plants use this type cooling towers? If I'm wrong and other types of power plants also use them color me uninformed and fill me in, mk.

I know that our coal plants have huge furnace stacks that go 4 and 5 hundred feet up for that purpose.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Here's a cooling tower from a coal, oil, and natural gas power plant.

It's got to do with the scale of the amount of water needing cooling.

Christ. It's not like they've got fallout coming out of the top of them.

[madokie]

20. color me blind

as I've never seen one of those at a coal or gas plant yet. Where is this at so I can go check it out.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. That's the Didcot power station in the UK.

Or you could just look up basic information on how power plants work on the internet.

[madokie]

22. Lot to things I could do

as I was saying we don't use that type of cooling towers on our coal or gas plants here that I know of

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. There's lots of things you should do.

Here's the Hatfield's Ferry Power Plant in Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania, United States.

Of America.

Because the laws of thermodynamics are the same over on this side of the pond too.

[madokie]

25. as I said color me blind

[Statistical]

27. Cooling tower simply improves cooling efficiency of plant.

All thermal plants operate on same principle

Be it combined cycle natural gas, oil plants, coal plants, even thermal solar plants.



See the part described condenser. It is used to cool steam back into liquid form after spinning the turbine.

Now this diagram is for a reactor but all a nuclear reactor does it provide heat. Heat from nuclear reactor is same as heat from natural gas, or oil, or coal, or thermal solar.

You don't NEED a cooling tower you can get cooling water directly from some source.
From anywhere (ocean, lake, river, even artificial lake). The purpose of condenser water is simply to extract "waste heat" from thermal plant.

So why use cooling tower? More efficient use of water. A little physics is involved but using a cooling tower a thermal plant (any thermal plant) requires less cooling water and the cooling water discharged back to source will be "warmed" up by less amount.

Here is coal plant with cooling towers.



The 2 small "smokestacks" are where CO2 and coal particulate escapes into atmosphere after burning. The 8 cooling towers on right are simply used to cool the water loop.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

34. I clearly recall Chalk Point coal power plant in Maryland having them.

Interestingly enough, Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Plant (only 10 miles away) had no cooling towers. So I don't think there's any set rule.

[NutmegYankee]

36. Towers are used on all types of energy plants.

Towers are used when the plant produces a LOT of heat, and so you usually only see it on really large Coal or Gas power plants that do not have a natural heat sink nearby like a lake or river. Nuclear plants often have them because they usually produce power rated in the 1000's of Megawatts range and have a lot of heat to dump. If the nearby lake or river cannot absorb the heat without negative environmental effects (to fish, etc) then a cooling tower is used to dissipate the heat to the atmosphere.

The cooling water in a tower is isolated from the water in the plant. In the case of a nuclear plant, it is the third loop, with double isolation from the reactor plant cooling water.

For example: COAL




Nuclear Plant built at the Ocean: Millstone Power Station in Conn. 2020 Megawatt

[AnArmyVeteran]

41. That picture is so beautiful. I wish my home was right in the middle of those awesome towers...

[tabasco]

39. lol.

Because you see them on coal plants too.

[benEzra]

46. Partly because a lot of fossil fueled plants in the USA dump their waste heat straight into rivers

via heat exchangers, which is cheaper than building water-to-air cooling towers. Some nuclear plants (mostly older ones AFAIK) follow this model, but most use cooling towers, which tends to avoid problems with thermal issues altering the river environment. Larger and newer fossil fueled plants are probably more likely to use towers than rivers, I'd think, although I'd have to look it up.

The use of cooling towers also eliminates the need to place the plant on a riverbank, meaning you can put it anywhere.

[political_Dem]

12. Why it almost reminds one of Armageddon and the Second Coming.

After all, this is what the Evangelical right has wanted all along. Now, we've got to find out who is the anti-christ....

[AnArmyVeteran]

15. Under Bush, right wing Christians actually prayed for Armageddon.

When Bush was president, I remember reading stories of how fundamentalist Christian churches prayed for Armageddon. I believe a lot of them voted for Bush because they thought Bush could facilitate the end of the world by starting huge wars. I've heard a lot of members of the religious right almost longing for the end days.

I know one thing, whatever direction they go after Armageddon and the Rapture, I want to go in the other direction. Spending an eternity with people like GW Bush, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, right wing radio hosts and talking heads on Fox News would be pure HELL. (btw, they all claim to be 'Christians'). Could you imagine waking up every morning in the hereafter next to Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity? Good god, that would be the most awful thing to have to endure. It would be absolute HELL.

[political_Dem]

17. I agree.

I wouldn't know anyone who want to spend their eternity with any of them. That would be torture unto itself, truly.

All I know is that with a vision like that, I hope that someone out there would be inspired to seek justice and truth to limit the influence of the RW media on the American citizenry. Lord knows, each of these men have caused more toxic damage than the spill in the Gulf. Their influence has made a society more intolerant of its neighbors to the point of oppressing anyone who doesn't fit a narrow, WASP-like view. Thus, their corruption and lack of remorse has infected an entire generation with few speaking back.

Things have got to change so that we don't have such a hell that you described on earth.

[madokie]

18. I was raised Southern Baptist

and all the fire and brimstone sermons got old quick. By the time I was in junior high I knew I didn't believe a word of the bible and still don't.

[AnArmyVeteran]

24. Last time I went to a Baptist church was 1982 and it disgusted me...

I was invited to go to church with a girlfriend I had at the time. It was a Wednesday night service. The preacher called everyone there sinners, worthless and bad. He kept up his rambling abuse of the congregation until I had enough. I whispered to my date that I had to leave. I was on the aisle so it wasn't hard to get out. I walked to the side of the church and entered a hall that led to an exit. On the way two women approached me and asked in a very ugly tone "Where do you think you're going?". I told her I'm going outside to be with God. Their heads almost exploded, but I just calmly walked by them and out into the night air. I just walked around the dark parking lot looking up at the crystal clear sky full of brilliant, bright stars. And I felt so good about leaving all of that evil inside that brick building. I'll never forget that ecstatic feeling I had knowing what I did was the right thing to do. I was a bit shy at the time so it took every bit of courage I could muster to get up in front of all those people to leave. And I thought for sure that preacher would single me out to spew his venom on.

I've never been back to a Baptist church again. It's sad how abusive and demeaning that preacher was and how he was victimizing all of the people in the congregation. My friend Marsha later tried to commit suicide, but thankfully she was brought to a hospital in time. She cut both of her wrists badly. The reason for her torment: She had no identity of her own. If she had a good thought she thought it was god. If she had a bad thought, she thought it was satan. She felt like she was a bad person for even having bad thoughts and I suppose she felt like she was evil because of the constant drumbeat of hate from evil preachers and from her own parents, who were religious fanatics. She finally tried to end the war going on in her mind between 'god' and 'satan' and cut her wrists.

I feel sorry for all the people who are locked up in that world Marsha was a prisoner in. I wonder how many other people have been successful in committing suicide because of the mutant religion they were being forced to listen to and the pain it caused them. People do so many evil things in the 'name of god'. Just ten miles from where I live a mother drowned her five children to death because she thought god wanted her to do it. I have read story after story of people falling victim to the evils of religion and doing similar things.

Marsha was taken first to a county mental hospital and then the state mental hospital. Through a lot of intensive therapy Marsha was finally able to find her own identity and eventually marry and have children. But religion, and those who abuse it and victimize others with the Bible, almost killed a beautiful person like Marsha. I was the only person to visit her at either hospital. I drove to Austin to stay several days at a time, sleeping in my van and taking Marsha out into the real world for a few hours on passes.

Even though the monsters at that Baptist church did nothing for her after Marsha attempted suicide I was there for her all the time, writing her letters, sending her cards and driving 240 miles to visit her every week for over six months. But according to fundamentalist Christians I will go to hell, while all those who sit through abusive sermons from evil-minded preachers will go to heaven. I don't need religion to be good or do what is right. And I certainly don't want to end up in a hereafter filled with the monsters who can fluently quote scripture, but have no understanding of what they are reciting.

Anyway Madokie, you mentioning 'fire and brimstone' sermons triggered that all too vivid memory and thought I would share it. I like John Lennon's song 'Imagine' where he sings about a world without religion. What a better world we would have and one less reason for people to kill themselves or others.

[madokie]

30. Thanks for that

for some reason it brought tears to my eyes. You are one hell of a good person and I commend you for the support you gave to your friend. Without that support no telling how that story would have ended. In the eyes of the church she soiled herself because of the attempted suicide. I remember those sermon about suicide too and how wrong it was when in actuality it's the reasons for suicide to be the only thing left, is the problem.

Have a great life AnArmyVeteran, :hug: brother in peace with yourself and the world around you. I like that

[AnArmyVeteran]

40. Thanks Madokie... that meant a lot to me...

It brought up a lot of wounds while remembering those times. But I saw in Marsha what her religious parents and her church could not see, a beautiful person who was tormented by the wars in her mind, and a person who desperately was needing someone to believe in 'her'. She didn't know how to reach out, so I extended my hand to her.

The 'Christians' who gave up on her will be going to 'heaven', but this 'evil', unreligious guy will be going to hell because I don't perform weekly rituals or recite thoughtless prayers. But that's okay with me. I would consider spending an eternity with those soulless people to be the worst hell imaginable. It doesn't take being a Christian or a member of any religion to have compassion, empathy, or doing what is right for others. It didn't take religion to teach me that it is my responsibility to reach out to those who are most vulnerable and to help them in their times of great need. Unlike most religions, I don't require any membership or donations. I give from my heart and the feeling I receive is worth more than any amount of money.

Thank you very much for your thoughtful comments. They meant a lot to me. Peace to you too...

(Btw, you made my day with your comments, thanks again)

[RagAss]

38. "Ignorance is the flame of religion"

[AnArmyVeteran]

42. That's absolutely true! Both religion & conservative extremism are cult-like beliefs...

I have members of my own family who are religious and their ignorance is unbelievable. And when you combine their almost cult-like religious beliefs with conservative extremism, it makes their ignorance level seem unlimited. It seems both religious extremists and conservative extremists exhibit the same traits as cult members. There are therapies to reprogram members of cults, but first they have to agree to therapy. Some families force members of their family into therapy, but it would be impossible to do on a large scale. And there aren't enough psychiatrists and psychologists in the world to treat all of the religious and conservative cult members.

So the flames of ignorance will continue to burn brightly...

[RagAss]

43. Agreed...when you think of it both are forms of escapism.

The need to escape fear by clinging to the safety of protective delusions. Its a sad existence.

[defendandprotect]

13. Capitalism's exploitation of nature is ugly and suicidal -- !!

[Xenotime]

29. It's something that must be stopped.

[MrScorpio]

31. Dude, you're quickly becoming on of my favorite DUers

Keep preaching, Brother

[BlancheSplanchnik]

32. WOA! This should be a Poster, and it needs to go viral.

I am NOT kidding, AAV.

This is really powerful and really truthful.

[AnArmyVeteran]

33. Thanks BlancheSplanchnik! Spread it around so others can see the horrors of a conservative world...

[branders seine]

35. '...this is what conservatives want to do to the entire country' ?

world. entire world. and the universe beyond that.

[AnArmyVeteran]

37. Yeah, you're right of course. Can you imagine if conservatives had their way?