ACLU blasts national ID card proposal

[woo me with science]

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/04/30/ACLU-blasts-national-ID-card-proposal/UPI-96821272634097/

ACLU blasts national ID card proposal
Published: April 30, 2010 at 9:28 AM


WASHINGTON, April 30 (UPI) -- Civil liberties advocates decried a Democratic proposal that would require all workers in the United States to carry an ID card with biometic identifers.

Senate Democratic leaders Thursday revealed an outline to reform U.S. immigration laws, including a proposal requiring workers to carry a national card with biometric data, such as fingerprints, within six years.

The American Civil Liberties Union ripped the ID card program, called "Believe," an acronym for Biometric Enrollment, Locally-stored Information and Electronic Verification of Employment, The Hill reported Friday.

"Creating a biometric national ID will not only be astronomically expensive, it will usher government into the very center of our lives," ACLU legislative counsel Christopher Calabrese said.

.....

Majority Whip Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., ...said the public has become more comfortable with the idea of a national identification card. "For a long time it was resisted by many groups but now we live in a world where we take off our shoes at the airport and pull out our identification," Durbin said. "People understand that in this vulnerable world, we have to be able to present identification."

....

[NJmaverick]

1. How would the ID card be any different than showing an employer your SS card?

[sharp_stick]

3. I don't know

I've been trying to figure it out. Other than a more difficult to forge or misuse SS card I can't see the difference.

I think it might make it a lot easier to verify employment eligibility than the current error prone e-verify monstrosity.

[woo me with science]

4. Kick. nt

[Uncle Joe]

6. It's another step down the invasive slippery slope of eliminating the American Peoples' privacy.

If you have no regard for personal privacy, it means nothing but anyone that believes it will end here, are sadly mistaken.

At some point in the future people will learn how to game this system or some other need will arise for even more invasive measures and it will be taken as someone asks "What's the difference between Biometric Cards and etc?"

[sharp_stick]

7. If it's a replacement for the SS card

it's not a step, it's staying in the same place.

Personal privacy is gone already, it's been gone for a long time. There was a story not long ago about a guy that decided to try and hide (go off the grid) after hiring some specialists to try to find him. He did everything right, they found him in four days based on his previous history, online and offline.

In London you can be followed from home all around the city and back on CCTV and they won't miss an outdoor step. I was in NY a few weeks ago down around Battery Park and at one intersection I counted 8 visible CCTV cameras. Who knows how many I missed because they weren't easily visible.

Everytime you swipe your grocery card to save a buck on Cornflakes, everytime you update your Facebook status, every time you post on this site you give it away.

[Uncle Joe]

12. It isn't the same, the SS card is an identifying number, the Biometric Card is a biological imprint.

It wasn't that long ago when people protested against being treated like numbers, BoB Seger even sang a song about it "Feel Like A Number" so this is not "staying in place."

The Soviet Union was the nation requiring ID Cards as proof of citizenship and other than China, Berlin was the one with the Wall.

As for swiping grocery cards to save a buck, joining or updating FaceBook or any other site, that's voluntary, and not required by the government.

The same government that's largely controlled by the mega-corporations, if you can't see you the growing danger from all this, you're not paying attention.

[sharp_stick]

13. When it comes right down to it

it isn't voluntary, your handy dandy fancy new passport contains plenty of information that gets sent ahead of your car to the dude in the booth via RFID. It doesn't have to be biological. Your biological information (fingerprint, iris scan) is simply a number the second it passes into a computer system anyway, you can be tracked 10,000 ways to Sunday, no matter what. If you've ever held a security clearance for any reason they have the information.

When enough people adopt a technology like the Internet it no longer becomes voluntary. Facebook and grocery cards are the simple ones, every time you log on you leave a digital trail that can be followed. There are things you can do to blur it up if you're so inclined but a persistent well connected searcher can pretty much track you anywhere.

The growing danger from this is the slippery slope argument, I agree with you. Today it's just a Social Security card, tomorrow some asshole like shrub II becomes President and makes it mandatory for police stops.

My theory is that it's too late, privacy is done and I really don't think we're going to get it back. I lost all my faith in privacy when I was in Britain. Perhaps I'm just beaten down, it's looking more and more like GATACA every day.

on edit: this is going to wind up being a philosophical discussion anyway. I don't see any congress taking up any form of immigration update in the near future. After the health care bill match this is just way too toxic for either Party.

[Uncle Joe]

16. A passport is only required if you leave the nation just as a drivers license

is only required to operate a motor vehicle, even if they're necessary to make a living, ultimately they're voluntary.

The same holds true for logging on to the Internet, the government doesn't require you to do so.

As for it being too late, I believe that only becomes true when we quit fighting for privacy even if from many standpoints, we don't have it.

As for this Big Brother ID card, I suspect not as many Democrats will be required to support it because the Xenophobic and corporate supremacist Republicans will be happy to join in.

[woo me with science]

17. You don't have to carry your voter registration card 24/7, either.

I think the logical next step is to use this card as proof of citizenship for voting.

[Uncle Joe]

19. And it won't stop at applying for jobs, if the purpose of these cards is to curb

illegal immigration, then logic dictates they would need to be on your person or within reach at all times should the police; as in the case of Arizona or Immigration officer require a check.

Simply living in the U.S. will ultimately require you to have it on your presence at all times and if they only single out Hispanic, Chicanos or Latinos for checking they will be sued for racial profiling, thus everyone's privacy and freedom will be diminished as the authorities will try to make it appear impartial.

[woo me with science]

22. kick nt

[sabrina 1]

21. Then it's time to do something about it, to start reversing that

that trend. Apparently we are asleep at the wheel and it's time to wake up, not to just throw our hands in the air and say 'well, it's been that way so we should not be too upset about a little more invasion of privacy'.

Every big disastrous event in the world started with incremental steps like these and the people were lulled into acceptance because it didn't happen all at once.

If it really is this bad, that should be issue. How to reverse it. This card because it is Democrats doing it, doesn't make it any less intrusive.

In fact, I'm beginning to think that the reason Dems now have the job of doing the bidding of the Corporate state is precisely because the overlords know that the Democratic base is the most likely to fight back hard if these issues are introduced by Republicans. By letting their own party do it, there is less backlash from the more intelligent and activist people in this country.

[Uncle Joe]

23. That's a good point Sabrina.

"In fact, I'm beginning to think that the reason Dems now have the job of doing the bidding of the Corporate state is precisely because the overlords know that the Democratic base is the most likely to fight back hard if these issues are introduced by Republicans. By letting their own party do it, there is less backlash from the more intelligent and activist people in this country."

[WinkyDink]

15. "BIOMETRICS."

[Hannah Bell]

18. #12. it's a biometric ID, not a numerical one.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. "The land of the free..."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[leftofcool]

8. ATTN: ACLU

We already have a national ID card.......it's called a social security card, yet one can be faked, just like a drivers license and a passport. If a national ID card replaces the SS card, and can't be faked what's yer beef?

[dkf]

9. Asking for an ID is racist! And Dick Durbin has outted himself as a bigot.

Any person who ever asks for your ID just wants to get you for being here illegally. They want to see your "papers".

**gasp**

[leftofcool]

10. Have you ever been asked for your drivers license?

Has an employer ever asked for your social security card? Are you asked for your passport when you travel abroad? How is asking someone for an ID being a bigot?

[dkf]

11. I'm being sarcastic.

I keep getting blasted for saying that showing your ID in AZ is no big deal.

[EFerrari]

14. It's been a week. You'd think after a week, you'd have figured it out.

[Bluebear]

20. That won't happen.

[dkf]

24. I think you misread this thread.

I'm being chastised for saying that asking to show an ID is an act of bigotry.