gay conservatives

[miscsoc]

what is your attitude towards them?

i'm straight, more or less, and I am in no position to tell gay people what to do, but I do find them objectionable, more even than straight right wingers. (I know this isn't rational, I just thought it would be interesting to discuss.) They seem like "traitors" to me on some level, even though being born liking other boys/girls doesn't give them any obligation to the left.

I suppose I am thinking of the variety of gay right wingers who are liberal on specifically gay issues but reactionary on all the rest. Maybe it's to do with the fact that gay rights are largely the result of a wider left wing egalitarian movement. Or, I expect more of gay people since I associate them with positive things, and hold them to a perhaps irrational higher standard.

Anyway that's all just some preliminary personal speculation, but I'd like to hear from people of all orientations regarding gay right wingers. Just bring out all the various thoughts we have re: this and argue about them and perhaps gain something from the discussion.

What specifically has provoked me is the British Conservative Party, which has recently made a point of being fairly pro-gay (there are issues with the european allies) and promoting various gay right wing "libertarian" assholes as a badge of their progressivity.

[Hepburn]

1. Gay conservative?? Isn't that an oxymoron??

:shrug:

[MindandSoul]

2. It does sound a little hypocritical to be gay and a Republican. . .

But to each its own!

[SwampG8r]

21. he didnt say

gay and republican
he said gay and conservative

to presuppose either is difficult but gay and republican cannot be reconciled
and yet the log cabin republicans exist
while it may be possible to be conservative and gay as conservative is a political belief and not a club membership
there are believe it or not conservative democrats too

[MindandSoul]

22. I stand corrected! LOL!

[AlinPA]

3. How could one ascribe to a philosophy or political party that hates them? I was never able

to understand that.

[Glorfindel]

4. I know several, and they're unhappy, miserable creatures

Their money is more important to them than their rights (maybe even than their lives), and they truly believe that the conservatives "don't mean all the bad things they say." I've given up talking to them; might as well try to teach a pig to dance.

[DesertFlower]

5. my friend is a republican lesbian.

we've been friends for more than 20 years. i asked her "why do you vote with the party who hates you"? she said "when it comes right down to it neither party will stand with us".

i've tried to get through to her, but i can't.

[mitchtv]

12. she's not lying

Democrats can't be trusted either

[SocialistLez]

14. I can see why she thinks that

but I could NEVER bring myself to vote for a Republican.

I've known that since I was 5.

[DesertFlower]

16. we have a guy here who's running

for office on a local level. about 5 years ago he was president of the HOA. he busted his ass making sure that certain things in the neighborhood were done right -- or some not at all.

every night for months he sat outside the grocery store getting people to sign petitions. a month or so ago i got an e-mail from him that he was running for office. he's a republican. i told him that at one time i might have been able to put aside that fact, but the way things have been the past few years i can't.

i posted this on DU and someone told me i was being petty.

i'm in phoenix. we've been stuck with McCain and Kyl and shadegg for too many years. i can't help another one get into office.

[devilgrrl]

6. It's all about money. Greed has no sexual preference.

eom

[miscsoc]

7. that's basically true

i'd like to think that people from previously oppressed groups might retain a residual loyalty to the broader equality agenda though.

but yeah, it is just money, for a lot of people. hopefully not most.

[WillyT]

8. I've Always Liked J.C. Watts Father's Saying About Black Republicans... (Of Which His Son Was One)

Something to the effect of...

"A black man voting for a Republican, is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders."

:shrug:

[Lyric]

9. I'm lesbian, and I think they're worse than mere traitors.

After all, a traitor can commit treason for what they believe to be noble reasons--look at our own Founding Fathers, who were all technically traitors. Traitors are not necessarily seeking personal gain. It's rare, but POSSIBLE, to be a traitor in the service of what you believe to be the right and moral thing to do.

However, I have known quite a few gay conservatives in my time, and I have NEVER met one who was a conservative for the sake of the greatest good. Not EVER. In my own experience, every gay conservative that I have ever met was a conservative for ONE reason: protecting and hoarding their own personal wealth. These are the lowest of the low--people who KNOW what it's like to suffer discrimination and oppression, and who KNOW how intense and horrific that suffering can be, and yet who STILL value their bank accounts and stock portfolios over their own civil rights. These are the kind of people who would sell their own mothers if it meant collecting a tidy profit.

When you love your money SO much that you're willing to trade your freedom AND other people's freedom for the sake of holding onto as many pennies of it as possible, then you have become something FAR more putrid and tainted than a simple traitor. Imagine someone who sells their own toddlers to pedophiles in order to pay for a new plasma TV and a gym membership--to me, THAT is the moral equivalent of being a gay, money-fucking conservative.

I'm sure there must be a gay conservative out there who's in it for something other than personal enrichment--there's always an exception or two to any rule--but I've sure as hell never found one. If I did, then I might think differently of them. But I can promise you this--a gay conservative who's in it SOLELY for the sake of the money need never attempt to speak to me or mine, because I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. They're sure as hell no "Family" of MINE. If there were ever a time that I'd feel comfortable using the word "homosexual" instead of "gay", it would be in reference to those people and those people alone. Maybe we should start calling them "Moneysexuals", because let's face it--that's really the only thing they REALLY love.

[miscsoc]

11. i appreciate the palpable anger in that reply

"people who KNOW what it's like to suffer discrimination and oppression, and who KNOW how intense and horrific that suffering can be, and yet who STILL value their bank accounts and stock portfolios over their own civil rights. These are the kind of people who would sell their own mothers if it meant collecting a tidy profit."

I think that's right on the money. It's what I find so disagreeable about those British gay conservative politicians. Google Alan Duncan and Nick Herbert.

[lies and propaganda]

23. i could not have said it more eloquently...

thank you..

[mitchtv]

10. Lower than whale shit

I am Gay

[Mojeoux]

15. Hey

I read some of your journal, and you seem like a sweety too. Are you saying you are a republican?
I just don't think so.

I've lived in the Bay Area since 1973. I remember the awesome riot the night of the Dan White decision.

I live up in Guerneville now. I'm not gay, but I love gay community and my daughter is bi.

There's repubs who are gay up here for sure, but it's rare and they are usually very wealthy.

[mitchtv]

26. last puke I voted for was Milton Marx

He was OK. Lots of Log cabins her in the Desert cities

[lunasun]

13. I thought this would be about Lindsey Graham ...etc. ..... nt

[nemo137]

17. They like their racial and class privilege a whole bunch.

That's the only thing I can think of - that they are so invested in their white privilege and class identity that that trumps everything else, and they're afraid of anything that might challenge the cultural structure that supports that privilege. Selfishness and short-sightedness elevated to an art form.

I'm straight, for what it's worth.

[LiberalAndProud]

18. Many around here are Republicans.

Disattached, unattentive and ill informed Republicans, but that runs in the family in these parts.

[Toucano]

19. In my experience, which is plentiful (SHUT UP!)

Gay conservatives are racist.

It isn't economics that makes them what they are ("small government" - what the hell does that even mean?).


No, it's the myth of the race of the recipient of that government largess that makes them "conservative".

Whatever the form, I am increasingly convinced that "CONSERVATIVE" just means "RACIST".

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Mixed feelings.

Like any group, there are a mix of gay conservatives. Some are nothing more than selfish assholes or racist pricks, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are conservative. I also know plenty of gay conservatives who are anti-"gay" marriage, hate crime laws, and support things like DOMA and DADT, if it weren't for their sexual orientation, they would be no different than most conservatives. I know gay conservatives who are more pragmatic who basically think along the lines of "well, the Democrats aren't speeding us to equality, and many Dems are bigoted against us, at least the Republicans admit it and we can get a tax break, etc." Many people think minority groups will automatically align themselves with the democrats, so much so, the democratic party also believes this. Like any group, there is always going to be a "parting of the ways" on various topics and just because someone is gay, Jewish, Latino, black, Muslim, or what have you doesn't mean they are going to vote one way over another. In essence, it is a little bigoted to expect an individual who is a member of a minority group to be 'liberal' or vote democratic.

Sometimes, I feel they are "sell-outs" and other times I respect their choices. The real issue is to examine who s/he is as an individual and not of which group s/he is a member.

[Prism]

24. They're totally fine.

The short version:

I find the idea that someone's entire set of beliefs should be dictated by one personal characteristic creepily fascist in nature. None of the arguments against gay conservatives has ever impressed me. I generally find the denigration of them says far more about the person doing the denigrating, their ideas about how much control they want to exert over others to force them into uniform thinking, than the gay conservatives themselves.

Also, I find gay conservatives are a useful canary in the liberal coal mine. Without fail, super accepting, totally pro-equality, swear-to-god-I-love-the-gays, types will "suddenly" discover their inner homophobe when a gay conservative surfaces.

It's a kind of homophobic standard candle, and boy howdy do people ever fail with it.

People have all kinds of different beliefs. I don't see why someone should be subjected to a different standard or "permission" to have varied ideology by virtue of their orientation.

Like I said, it's creepy and a bit fascist.

[Stevenmarc]

25. It's fairly simple, the big head and the little head frequently have a failure to commmunicate

As a gay man I find the whole concept of Gay=Liberal rather stereotypical. Expecting a gay person to buy into the whole progressive program just because progressives are on our side of the issue is really playing on pony politics.

[mitchum]

27. I hope that they are all killed by flipped out trade