Army officer orders troops not to commit suicide

[Philosoraptor]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/24/army-suicide-prevention-o_n_550831.html

Brig. Gen. Stephen Townsend addressed the 101st Airborne Division with military brusqueness: Suicides at the post had spiked after soldiers started returning home from war, and this was unacceptable.

"It's bad for soldiers, it's bad for families, bad for your units, bad for this division and our Army and our country and it's got to stop now," he insisted. "Suicides on Fort Campbell have to stop now."

It sounded like a typical, military response to a complicated and tragic situation. Authorities believe that 21 soldiers from Fort Campbell killed themselves in 2009, the same year that the Army reported 160 potential suicides, the most since 1980, when it started recording those deaths.

But Townsend's martial response is not the only one. Behind the scenes, there has been a concerted effort at Fort Campbell over the past year to change the hard-charging military mindset to show no weakness, complete the mission.

[hobbit709]

1. The beatings will continue until morale improves

Anyone depressed enough to try suicide is NOT going to be constrained by threat of a court martial.
Someone needs to slap that general upside the head with the reality stick

[AnArmyVeteran]

26. Exactly!

But I heard it differently: "The beatings will continue until the crying stops". But your version fits the military better...

[Mari333]

2. jesus f krist.

[barbtries]

3. and this is supposed to keep someone alive?

i don't know what to say. what a mess.

[Philosoraptor]

4. Like some sick comedy

[barbtries]

5. yeah, except it's real lives

real people brought so low they'd rather die than live :cry:

[hvn_nbr_2]

52. It likely doesn't have anything to do with keeping people alive.

It probably has to do with denying benefits to survivors. Since a soldier would be disobeying orders when he committed suicide, survivors would not be eligible for any survivor benefits. I'd bet on it.

[Vinca]

6. Well . . . that'll cheer 'em up.

:sarcasm:

[icnorth]

7. Where do they get these guys???? n/t

[MrScorpio]

10. These are the "Left Behind"

Cheerleaders for Bush's wars when the ranking officers of conscience decided that is was a good idea to retire.

It's going to take a while before asses like this matriculate through the ranks.

[madokie]

8. Someone needs to kick that piece of shit Brig. General

right square in the nuts so hard that his balls will be hanging off his fucking chin. :grr:

Life is precious, we only have one.

Its tough living with War. You can remove the body from the war but the mind never leaves.

[malaise]

35. +1,000

What a scumbag

[MrScorpio]

9. This general is thoroughly clueless

He has absolutely no idea what is going on, does he?

The military is broken and the way that these wars have been prosecuted are to blame.

The soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines have been sacrificed on the altar of this war machine that is perpetuating this injustice.

It's people like this, who were promoted up the ranks when so much of the brass quietly left active service in protest to these wars, who are making the situation worse.

This fool refuses to see it.

[hobbit709]

12. Our site commander, a captain was that kind of arrogant.

On his third day there, he stood in front of us at commander's call and said that he would sacrifice his wife and kids to further his Air Force career.
I looked at my 3 stripes and looked at him, and looked back at my three stripes and my middle finger came up. That started it between us.
About 8 months later the IG came up to our site and talked to everyone, then went into his office and he suddenly took 30 emergency leave. The IG told him that 80% of the people on the site were ready to shoot him first chance they got. It was one thing when first termers like me wanted to but there was a Senior Chief Master Sergeant with over 20 years in that wanted to also.

[MrScorpio]

14. Do NOT fuck up morale in Air Force units

That should be tattooed on every commander's head

[Dr Morbius]

11. Um, probably not going to be helpful, General.

"Show no weakness" is the wrong mindset anyway. "Tolerate no weakness" or "Bear no weakness" is a little better. It's a very bad idea to teach men to hide their weaknesses. You'll create better soldiers if you teach them to confront, and conquer, their weaknesses.

Nice display of compassion, by the way.

[Ian David]

13. "I order you to stop feeling sad."

"You will cheer the fuck up! That's an order, Private Numbnuts!"

[gratuitous]

15. Problem solved

Mission accomplished in the finest military tradition.

[old mark]

16. Oh, the professional military mind...

Nice to know the Army thinking hasn't changed much in ,say, the last 3,000 years or so.....


:eyes:

m
Former Sp4, 82d Airborne Division

ADDED: In the pre-WWI Imperial German Army officer's cadet training corps, there really was a command,
"Ready, SLEEP", at which point the barrack Sergeant would leave, knowing that all the cadets were officially sleeping - On their backs with both hands above the blanket, the official sleeping position of Imperial German Army Officers' Corps Cadets at that time...

[rurallib]

17. great example of RW leadership.

[sarge43]

18. "Sir, if I off myself, wtf are you going to do about it?"

This one must have sailed right past him at War College -- never issue an order you can't enforce; the troops will laff at you.

:banghead:

[MrScorpio]

19. "War College"? Shit, they should teach that one at OTS

Or whatever they call basic for officers.

Should be rule numero uno!

[sarge43]

22. Should have that one figure out about second day on AD.

Especially when the grizzled zebra in the back is :rofl:

[HeeBGBz]

28. Article 15 and extra duty...n/t

[sarge43]

32. A permanent gate guard. n/t

[Crabby Appleton]

48. Yep nt

[dogday]

20. Yes, that ought to do it ------NOT

Another great idea by the Army. Hey we will order these guys not to kill themselves. That will work right?

I hope they are getting all of these guys the psychological help they need, because a direct order will not stop them..

[DemoTex]

21. Catch-22

When truth is stranger than fiction ..

[LiberalLoner]

23. I'm gonna get hella flamed for this, but....rop

I think I sort of understand what this General was trying to do. Most of us who are or have been soldiers have a real altruistic side when it comes to our fellow soldiers. We have a strong sense of duty.

I had planned for awhile to commit suicide on my 30th birthday. It seemed like a fitting date. I got woken up early that morning by a call from my Brigade Commander - he needed me to come in (on a Sunday, on my birthday) and look through the AUEL's to find equipment that was coming back on ships from Desert Storm because some friend of his had called him with a "heads up" that there was going to be a tasking soon for the Brigade. Needed to know how soon what particular pieces of equipment would be on the ground so we could get it and turn around and perform a mission.

Worked all day on that, on trying to see what commo systems could be put together from pieces of equipment from the various companies.

Probably saved my life. At the end of the day I was focused not on wanting to die, but on how my Brigade needed me and how I had a job to do. How my death would let down my fellow soldiers.

Anyway, I know we need to stop stretching our troops so thin. Congress and POTUS decide our missions, not the Generals. I know we need more compassion and understanding and help for vets.

Maybe the General had some understanding of this altruism of soldiers - of the sense of duty.

Ok, flame away, got my flameproof suit on now.

[dalaigh lllama]

24. No flames -- just a question

Why were you going to kill yourself?

[LiberalLoner]

30. Nothing war related...just PTSD from an horrific childhood...

Terrible depression, and a sense that I was an absolute failure down to every molecule in my body and that my existence was an affront to the universe.

I wanted to die because of the overwhelming conviction I had that I wasn't good enough, worthy enough, to take up space in this world and that there wasn't anything I could do to become good enough. That I was flawed in such a fundamental way it could never be fixed.

I wanted to die to set things right and to get away from the overwhelming feeling of self-hate and shame I carried with me all the time.

[dalaigh lllama]

36. I'm so sorry you went thru that

Here's hoping you've dealt successfully with that and know that we all can contribute something worthwhile to this world. :hug:

[LiberalLoner]

40. Thank you. I'm trying. n/t

[Bigmack]

25. My Gunny told us...

that we could not die without permission. He should tell them that if they off themselves, they will be in a world of shit!

Ahhh... the military mind.

[DailyGrind51]

27. Then send them home to be with their families, moron!

[LiberalLoner]

31. You think a Brigadier General has ANY control over the missions

given to them? You think he's in a position to say, "sorry, we can't go to Afghanistan this year because my soldiers need some rest..."

Oh, that is SOOOOO not how things work in the Army.

[AnArmyVeteran]

29. That stupid officer's remarks will produce the opposite response. What an idiot...

It will lead to more suppression. More troubled soldiers will be afraid of getting help. They will internalize their feelings and they will get worse. That idiotic officer's remarks will lead to even more suicides.

Like another stated, 'The beatings will continue until the crying stops'.

[MrScorpio]

33. Bingo!

Why he hasn't thought of this or listened to anyone else who would have told him this before he opened his pie hole is a mystery to me.

[sarge43]

42. What's really sad and scary is this clown commands the 101th.

They've always had some tough breaks, but this sucks.

[AnArmyVeteran]

49. The military is a 'yes man' organization.

You get ahead by agreeing and burying your true beliefs. The military is like one massive group think. To advance through the ranks you don't buck the system. You sell yourself out to the system. You have to become a conformist.

When I was in the army the buddies I had fought against that pressure to constantly conform. If we found ourselves walking in step, we learned a quick stutter step so we would be a half step off from each other. All my closest army friends did it. But most soldiers get sucked in and without even knowing it they become part of the whole, and walking in step with each other.

Obeying commands is necessary for any military to work, but the downside is losing one's individuality. And it also leads to people being promoted like this asshole was. He is in one of the highest positions in the military and he doesn't have a clue about the psychology of man. And yet is a commander of men. If I was his commander in chief I would make sure that idiot gets transferred to a position where he can't affect other people's lives, or better still, fire him.

[sarge43]

51. Well, I can't agree.

In my 21 years in the Balloon Corps I knew many people of all ranks and grades who were independent, scary smart, kind, caring and professional.

This jackass is one of the "ahshits"; the ones that cancel out the hundred "attaboys". I tend to agree with another poster who said many of the competent officers bailed during Bush's reign of stupidity. I know the feeling. More than once I sat on the edge of my bunk wondering if I could grind away while Johnson and Nixon were screwing with us.

And you don't have to bury your beliefs. You keep them polished and ready for that time when you can put them to good use, like standing up for your troops. Of course, you acquire a fine collection of first edition ass slings, at least one rotten assignment and probably fore go another stripe or upscaled shoulder dooda. On the other you can stand the sight of yourself in the mirror every morning.

[eridani]

55. Might that not depend a lot on the particular division?

Or are asshats randomly scattered?

[sarge43]

60. Can speak only from personal experience

God knowth I encountered a fair share in the AF, from the sublimely silly to the viciously cruel. So I'd say randomly scattered as they are in all groups and institutions.

AnArmyVeteran is right by implying when all you have is a hammer ... Issuing orders works most of the time, so tough habit to break.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Officers can order you to die and courts-martial you for trying to live.

This general has no sense of irony.

[Philosoraptor]

39. That's right, die fighting for nothing, but don't dare frag yourself

[spanone]

37. well, that takes care of that.

bwahahahahhaaa

[Jennicut]

38. Precisely what is wrong with the military today. Not the new recruits coming in but

the ones who have been there awhile. Weakness equals a defect that must be fixed to them. As someone who has suffered from depression and been on meds for 15 years for it, it just makes me laugh that anyone can order it to go away. Ha. I wish I could have done that.

[jmondine]

41. And the punishment is Life !?

[hootinholler]

43. Alright! Problem Solved!

Do I need it? I think not.

-Hoot

[Philosoraptor]

44. ...............

[RagAss]

45. Worthy of a 1970's SNL Skit !!!!!

[havocmom]

46. Golly, mebbe we should have him tell the economy to straighten up & fly right

Then we can check that issue off the national to-do list and have him talk to the globe about all the warming......


We pay a price for ignoring mental health issues. His foolishness is upping the ante.

[MilesColtrane]

47. If you kill yourself you'll be confined to barracks with no weekend pass.

Joseph Heller's estate is going to have to sue the general for plagiarism.

[Bluebear]

50. Well. isn't that helpful.

[Xenotime]

53. This is the best we have leading our troops? No wonder they army is fucked.

[Liberal_in_LA]

54. Why not order all Americans not to commit suicide? Seems like a good law

[Recovered Repug]

56. I'm curious about the context of the quotes.

This article from last year suggests a more involved general than the reporter (unintentionally I'm sure) wants show.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30964820

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. The sad part is that I can see that order

No, not justifying it, but I can see a Flag or General Officer trying to deal with this by given a lawful order... ok, not so lawful but.

I guess the good General will have the soldier reduced in rank after he or she succeeds.

And no, that would not shock me either...

Military logic is nothing close to actual logic at times.

[Swamp Rat]

58. k&r

[Philosoraptor]

59. That's right, stop their suffering and bring them back home already