"You Vill Show Me Your Paperz..." Uh, no, I won't.

[Redstone]

This is still America, whether a specific state has forgotten that or not.

Remember the Great National ID Card Debate of a few years ago? Went over like the proverbial lead balloon, that idea did.

I swore then that I'd shred any such card issued to me, and I'll swear again that I'll not be subjected to being bound to prove my citizenship to any policeman (or woman). Jail me as they will, I'll not be bound so.

I am American. I have bled for this country - MY country. No matter what, even during the darkest years of Bushdom, I could not for a moment entertain the thought of living elsewhere. I am American.

My America, my country, my heart of my birth, is not a place that demands paper proof of belonging to it.

At least it wasn't such. Not before The Fear overtook some who name themselves Americans, yet act contrary to all that's been American, for all these years.

I weep for my lost America.

Redstone

[NoNothing]

1. Noble sentiments

But I think you are mistaken. You are required to provide documentation, by law, routinely, for any number of government functions. You have to prove citizenship to get a job, remember? You need to put a social security number on your tax return, remember?

I'm glad people are starting to object to this kind of thing, but that debate was lost like a hundred years ago.

[Redstone]

3. Ah, no. You are NOT required to provide your SSN to anyone unless

the transaction you're entering into involves Federal taxes. And it's illegal for anyone to refuse you a service (such as a bank checking account that does not pay interest) if you refuse to provide your SSN.

PS: You don't need to prove citizenship to get a job; only legal residence. A Green Card works.

But none of this is the same, not even remotely, as being required by a cop from Bumfuck, Arizona (or anywhere else where you mght look suspicious if your skin is brown), to prove that you're really an American.

I'm only half white, as is my wife, so this matter is of some personal concern to me.

Redstone

[NoNothing]

5. You get my point though

I don't really see how it's any different if it's a cop in Bumfuck or an ICE officer in Tucson. I need to show license and registration to the cop already. What, in practical terms, is the difference?

[Redstone]

6. License proves you are legal to drive. Registration proves you are

the owner of the car.

Other than that (and proof of insurance), it's none of the police officer's business.

Redstone

[NoNothing]

8. It is if they have reasonable suspicion

SCOTUS is clear on this.

[Redstone]

10. "Reasonable Suspicion," in this case, meaning:

do you look Mexican?

I hereby formally give up on trying to argue with excuses for racism.

I'll see you later, or not. One is the same as the other to me

Redstone

[NoNothing]

11. What is with the attitude

I'm not arguing about what the law should be, I'm telling you what it is. If you don't like it take it up with the Supreme Court.

[The Straight Story]

12. It is called 'frustration' and might I add, as a long time DU'er, Redstone

is one of the good guys. Like me, and others, he gets a little ticked at issues.

He has earned his attitude. Not to say you do not bring some good points to the table, but sometime you need to give some people some slack.

[Redstone]

13. The attitude is from the fact that I'm only half white, and so is my wife. That makes

us a bit sensitive in matters and attitudes of racism.

Sorry if that bothers you.

Redstone

[Chulanowa]

14. Poor comparison

When you are applying for a job, you are volunteering your information; it is not being demanded of you. You are under no compulsion or coercion to give that information. You won't get hired, but that's the limit of your worries there. You can likewise forgo your tax returns; unless you're ripping off the IRA (which is a crime, after all) nobody gives a damn, it just means a little money stays behind at the offices.

Very different from some fat fucking state trooper loser pulling you over for being brown and demanding you give him evidence that you don't need to be incarcerated and deported.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Perfectly said, my dear Redstone!

K&R

:patriot:

[Redstone]

4. Thank you, m'dear. I feel the pain of my wounds and injuries this night, and

cannot salve them in the manner I had grown accustomed to do.

HAD grown accustomed to deal with the pain in such a manner. But no more...

I'll walk in circles a while, and clear my mind of fretting over idiotic Arizonians, then snug warm in bed with Mrs R, and be content for the nonce.

Redstone

[The Straight Story]

7. Long time no see, where you been hiding, the lounge?

;)

[Redstone]

9. Hiding in my own mind, I've been; for far too long. Just now making my

way back into the world, and happy to hear from you, my friend, that I indeed am.

Redstone