Lets cut the shit. What this bill in Arizona is really about

[npk]

Making Arizona whiter for the older white Americans living in the state. Anything else come to mind? :shrug:

Sorry for those who may disagree.


The real goal here is to force those who are Hispanic out of the state, by intimidation and humiliation. Just like the goal of the Jim Crow laws in the south were designed to drive African Americans out of the region.

[treestar]

1. Yep

they want their 1950s paradise back!

[caledesi]

10. Ditto! nt

[KonaKane]

2. Pretty obvious.

And I'll say again, this is not "news" coming out of AZ. This is more of Arizona's same, just achieving new lows.

[Mari333]

3. yep.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i4nY72M0hFVOHUzIrqYpD67DoBxgD9F9PCN82

[Fire1]

4. I'd say that's a pretty accurate assessment. n/t

[babylonsister]

5. I heard people are being kidnapped out of AZ and whisked

across the border. I haven't researched that so don't know if it's true, but if it is, can you imagine? That's not acceptable either. I don't know what the answer is, but what AZ is suggesting ISN'T the answer.

[npk]

8. I have read the reports of violence along the border

Most of these reports are involving gangs and drug cartels that are fighting with law enforcement on both sides of the border. I agree that this violence must stop. But this bill has nothing to do with stopping that violence. The people who are committing this violence, yes many of them are here illegally. But these people are rather easy to spot, arrest, and convict or deport whatever the case may be. This bill that was signed is only going to encourage Hispanic Americans, here legally, to pack up and move out. I mean that is what the state wants, IMO. A father driving his car down the highway, here legally, is going to fall under suspicion for no other reason then because of his skin color. This is just nonsense.

I am just shaking my head.

[Bobbieo]

12. Yes Sister B, and I am skakin' in my boots.!

[Union Yes]

6. Agree knr nt

[craigmatic]

7. probably so. but the question is "what are the hispanics going to do about it?". I hope

they all turn democratic and vote the governor, mccain, and the repubs in the legislature out.

[elocs]

9. The Democratic Party needs to capture and hold the Hispanic vote for the future.

That and the vote of the African Americans will give the party a lock by the middle of this century when whites become a minority in this country.

This may be the only incentive I have to want to live to be 98.

[unkachuck]

11. "...force those who are Hispanic out of the state..."

....that's what they're doing....but let's not stop with the Hispanic community....

....let's have EVERY citizen in this country implanted with ID chips to prove their citizenship and be subject to a scan in all public places....

[indy legend]

28. don't give the GOP any ideas. I'm sure one of these right wing fucks is working on it as we speak

[kentuck]

13. I think much of the pressure is coming from outside of Arizona...

From political groups, with guns and theology, waving their flags to the patriotic songs haunting their own minds. As they point their guns, their eyes meet, and they understand that the crossroads is not external, it is internal.

[AzJusticeFreedom]

14. Yup!

Agree!

[classysassy]

15. An influx of older americans

is part of the problem,but the elected officials just don't seem to care about the average citizen,especially the poor.The poor have little or no clout so they are just treated badly especially if they are in the minority.The justice system is really in need of a do over or get rid of the dinosaurs like sheriff Joe and his ilk.The whites that migrated to arizona after world war 2 and the korean war felt superior to the mexicans and indians who were here a long time before they arrived,the younger mexicans are not going to put up with the racist attitudes of the old gringos.This week we had a fool threaten one of the most respected members of congress just because he is hispanic,that kind of crap must end,the federal officials need to step in and indict all of the offenders.

[county worker]

16. Why just older white people?

You are as prejudice against old people as they are against Hispanics.

[npk]

18. I have nothing against older people

What I have is a problem with a certain group of people, that happen to be older and white, that have moved to the state of Arizona to retire, and seem to want to get rid of a certain group of people that they turn their noses down to and generally believe don't belong in this country or the state of Arizona.

[county worker]

19. Well leave off the adjectives and say people who hate!

[npk]

20. That is fair enough

Obviously there are many older people in Arizona that don't support this immigration bill. Unfortunately they are in the minority. A recent poll showed strong support for this bill

http://www.fox11az.com/news/local/Immigration-debate-91834349.html

And many of these people are older conservative Americans who have moved to Arizona, and as such have affected legislation in the state.

[Chulanowa]

21. Just at a glance...

Arizona is a "retirement" state, much like Florida. As the boomers get older, they migrate to warm and sunny places like Arizona and Florida. Just like the generations before them, they are intent on completely fucking up everything in their path. Their parents' generation wanted golf courses in the everglades, the boomers want huge lawns in the Sonora, and both generations have a flaming intolerance towards deviation from whatever the fuck they consider "normal" - and since these people are folks with savings who can afford to move out of state just for the smaller number on the latitude, odds are, they're white.

Stings, I'm sure, but true.

So what you've got here is a bunch of retired out-of-staters who want to turn their new home into whatever whitebread suburban shithole they left, only with more sun and greater ecological fragility.

It's not prejudice against the elderly; I don't think the folks at the retirement community I work at are nefarious anti-Hispanic evildoers. I do think that a bunch of white, self-centered retiree snowbirds who only ever want to see a Mexican if he's pushing a lawnmower might be involved in this.

[fujiyama]

17. Arizona is starting to make Texas seem downright progressive!

[Kablooie]

22. Sun City forever!

[Indi Guy]

23. You Are Exactly Wrong - The Arizona Law is Directed at US Citizens...

How better to subject us to unconstitutional measures of control?

[RoyGBiv]

24. Jim Crow ...

I don't disagree with the premise of what this law is about.

However, your characterization of Jim Crow is false. Sorry to be pedantic about it, but this is important. One of the major points of Jim Crow was to reduce the mobility of blacks in the South. Most Jim Crow laws were simply re-written "black codes" from the antebellum era, some so blatant that the word "slave" was just replaced with the word "negro" or "black" with the remainder left intact. White Southerners weren't trying to drive blacks *out* of the South. They were trying to dictate where they could live, how they could live, how they could move around from place to place, and limit or eradicate their ability to participate in society except as menial laborers who had no input into the way the government functioned.

Jim Crow was nothing more or less than an attempt to perpetuate slavery by another name.

OnEdit: I should add, however, that your characterization is more correct with regard to Jim Crow laws in areas outside the South. Many of those laws were so constructed to attempt to discourage immigration of blacks into those areas.

[treestar]

26. Were there any ID type laws at that time?

I'm thinking not, as just having brown skin would be enough "ID" to racists.

[RoyGBiv]

30. Not as such, no ...

What constituted identification at various times in history was largely a matter of location and purpose. Ironically, prior to the Civil War, there was a relatively high degree of nominal integration in the South. Now, by that I don't mean "equality" in any sense of the word. I simply mean that the nature of a slave based society dictated that blacks and whites mingled in the same places. So, it wasn't unusual for a black person to be seen driving a cart in town, and no ID was really required. However, during times of high paranoia among the slaveocracy, slave owners would often provide a sealed note to their more trusted servants who performed tasks off the farm/plantation, were hired out to others, etc.

During the Civil War, "being black" was all the ID that really mattered. There are many, many cases of free blacks being kidnapped during the Sharpsburg and Gettysburg campaigns and sold into slavery or just outright killed for standing in the wrong place. Among Confederate authorities, blacks were assumed to be slaves or runaway slaves.

Afterward, it varies with location and time. Again, as you say, skin tone was the most important ID.

[BlooInBloo]

25. You're so OVERSENSITIVE! You're a REVERSE-RACIST! It's just A FEW BAD APPLES!

There. And now we get to go back to business as usual.

[treestar]

27. They use the excuse that "illegals" are all they want to encourage to move out

But their real aim is towards all Hispanics.

[roody]

29. But who will clean their houses???

[butterfly77]

31. You got that right buddy...

:kick:

[felinetta]

32. Absolutely right!