Spycam School's Insurance Company To School: Go Fuck Yourself....

[BlooInBloo]

This is one case where I'm ok with the insurance company fucking over the insured.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20100422_Insurer_balks_at_covering_district_in_Web-cam_case.html

"A New York insurer that issued a $1 million liability policy to the Lower Merion School District is balking at the school board's request that it cover any legal costs and payments associated with the civil rights lawsuit challenging the district's secret laptop tracking program.

In a suit filed in federal district court in Philadelphia, Graphic Arts Mutual Insurance Company contends that none of the seven claims made by Harriton High School sophomore Blake Robbins in his invasion of privacy lawsuit amount to "personal injury" as defined in the coverage that the district bought last year."

[BlueIris]

1. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of fascists. nt

[Xipe Totec]

2. Talk about having their asses exposed in public!

Oh, the irony!

[JuniperLea]

3. I've never heard of Peeping Tom insurance...

And I'm willing to bet there are no Peeping Tom clauses in their policy.

Take it out of their asses.

[WCGreen]

4. I love these kind of suits....

These are the ones Republicans would love to go away under Tort Reform...

[SmileyRose]

5. Sigh - the school HAS to be sued - but the students and citizens lose the most

No matter who wins the students and local taxpayers will pay for the misdeeds........

I don't understand why the individuals who did this aren't being arrested on the same criminal charges peeping Toms are charged with.

[Warpy]

6. Only if the parents refuse to settle out of court

I'd like to know why those five laptops kept taking pictures. Was it a feature that had to be turned off that someone forgot? What happened to all that data? Was it wiped?

In any case, an out of court settlement requiring safeguards on that laptop recovery program should be the aim, not robbing a school district of funds over and above legal fees incurred in bringing the suit.

There are still too many things about this that we don't know.

[TorchTheWitch]

9. "robbing" the school district of funds???

Since when is our civil justice system considered "robbing" the wrongdoer of funds? Monetary penalties is how our civil justice system works, and until THIS case I've never seen anyone complain about it much less consider it robbery for the wrongdoer to pay a monetary penalty to the people it victimized.

Government entities that are paid for by our taxes get sued civially for all kinds of reasons all the time and not only does nobody have a problem with it they like the system of monetary penalty that punishes a wrongdoer and awards the victims of that wrongdoer something for what that government entity did to them.

[Warpy]

18. First, they need to prove actual harm to their children

which is something they haven't done yet. They've only proven there was potential for harm.

Settling out of court as I suggested would end the problem and save kids from ever being at risk. You'd think that reasonable parents would want to end the policy as it exists now to protect the children now and in the future.

If they're trying to win the legal lottery, they're out of luck on this one.

[TorchTheWitch]

27. kids were spied on

There is no dispute about that at this point whatsoever. What you suggested in settling out of court was only having the school pay legal costs. Sorry, that's not nearly good enough and is contrary to our system of monetary penalty in our civil justice system. These kids who were spied on any any other family members or house guests that was spied on deserves monetary compensation since that is the only compensation they can get in our civil system.

Reasonable parents whose kids were spied on and who they themselves may have been spied on and their homes visually invaded are entitled to compensation from the wrongdoers for being victimized in this way. They are VICTIMS no different than the victims of police abuse or abuse by a private entity or any other organization either private or government that abuses people.

This school is subject to civil penalties for wrongdoing just as any other school, government organization or private organization. Advocating that this school should be exempt from the same civil penalties for wrongdoing every other organization is subject to is outrageous, and calling VICTIMS of the abuse the school caused trying to hit the lottery and "robbing" the school because they want the school to be made to pay the civil penalty they SHOULD pay is disgusting.


Here's a thread about that girl who was abused by her school when they wouldn't allow her to go to prom with her same sex date that mentions she's suing the school...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8199340
Are you also going to argue that though she was clearly a VICTIM in what that school did to her that she's just trying to hit the lottery and wants to "rob" the school of its funds????

[Hannah Bell]

39. your screen nick is so ironic.

[TorchTheWitch]

47. newsflash: I don't care

you may be amazed by the fact that I give not one single spit in the ocean about what you think about anything.

Carry on.

[Warpy]

97. Apples and oranges

In the prom case, there was a specific student who was caused specific harm.

In this case, there are no specific students and no specific harm to any one of them has been documented.

It's not about winning the legal lottery, something that would rob kids in the future of money any school system needs these days. It's about ending the potential for abuse.

After all, the potential is what is at issue here, not any specific harm caused to any specific child in the system.

If they can come up with a single case of a student being used as a porn image, that will change and that student will deserve compensation. However, that has not happened yet.

[laughingliberal]

32. I think any time a person's rights are violated there is harm

Case in point would be the man who sued the officer who cited him for disorderly conduct for flipping him off and using the 'f' word. There was no actual harm there, either. But the court ruled it a violation of his civil rights (1st amendment) and awarded him $4000 and his legal expenses.

Monetary awards are not just about compensating victims, either. They are also meant to make sure the behavior changes.

[DefenseLawyer]

101. Bringing a valid suit when you have been harmed isn't "trying to win the legal lottery"

Unless you work in insurance defense, then every case against the insured is from some greedy liar who's trying to rape your rich client. "You would think these people that have been fucked by my client would just be happy with a moral victory and not actually insist that we pay for the damage we caused". Sorry to disappoint you, but they are so not out of luck.

[Warpy]

102. You have to prove damage to specific kids

and so far they've been unable to do that.

Winning the legal lottery means refusing to settle out of court in exchange for protecting kids by tightening up the system when you can't prove that specific children were damaged.

I'm seeing a lot of knee jerking from parents who are outraged by the thought that it could have happened to their kids. If you stop to think about this, you'll realize what the point is, and that is protecting kids in that and other school systems.

Cashing in should be the last thing on anyone's mind.

[Toucano]

7. Must restitution always be monetized?

Is money really going to fix the injury caused by the intrusion?

Is life like a roulette table with all of us just waiting for someone else to screw up so we "hit the jackpot"?

Perhaps an admission of wrong-doing and a letter of apology could suffice.

[RC]

8. It's either money or jail time. That's all this country has.

The rich get the money and the rest of us get the jail time.

[Mojeoux]

10. Because "Money Talks.!" n/t

[Toucano]

23. Maybe it's time to think of something new. n-t

[WinkyDink]

11. "Apology"?. First of all, the admins have lied throughout. Secondly, Lower Merion SD has $$$$$$$$$$.

[Toucano]

21. Neither of those facts address the central question I posed.

How does a financial award make the victim whole?

Why do we assume the the violation of their rights can be monetized and how do we assume to calculate that?

[TorchTheWitch]

28. it's a shitload better than only requiring a letter of apology!

No, money doesn't make someone whole. NOTHING can make a person whole who has already suffered abuse by a certain entity. Monetary penalty is the only civil penalty our justice system provides so at least it's SOMETHING that serves to help the victim and penalize the wrongdoing entity.

[Toucano]

34. Well hallelujah!

"Bubba, they done violated ar rahts!"

So they loaded up the truck, and they moved to Beverly...

Hills that is...

swimmin' pools...

movie stars!

[TorchTheWitch]

43. apparently you've never been a victim

of abuse for which there is no criminal penalty. Apparently you can't even empathize with anyone that has been harmed by anyone for which there is no criminal penalty. A school spying on minors in the privacy of their own bedrooms and taking photos of whatever they do in the privacy of their own bedrooms it is just laughable to you. People having their rights violated in such a gross manner is just soooo joke worthy. Har har har.

Here's another thread about a student abused by her school you can go make jokes about her rights being violated and who you believe deserves nothing more than a letter of apology....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8199340
Yuk it up.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TorchTheWitch]

66. you were the one claiming nothing more than a letter of apology

is sufficiant for the victims. If that's not a lack of empathy along with your crude jokes about the victims that had their rights violated than what the hell is it?

[Toucano]

71. Suggested...

I suggested that an apology and an admission of wrong doing might be appropriate, and asked for other suggestions BEYOND the monetization of harm - which you have conceded is inadequate and incalculable.

Your defense of this "system" has been limited to "that's the way it is", which is remarkably uncreative and not very enlightening.



Your problem is you have taken it in your mind to equate this serious civil rights violation with a much more serious crime of rape. That's why you have chosen to turn a joke about someone striking judicial award oil - not a joke about someone's civil rights being violated - as a "crude" joke.

[TorchTheWitch]

77. we have to work with the system we have

You've been told what that system is. There is no other system. Debating what other system may work better is pointless since it's not going to be the one used in this case nor any other civil case. If you want to discuss what sort of system may be better than the civil justice system we have and are stuck with whether we like it or not than make a thread about it and discuss it there. As far as I'm concerned there IS no way to make a victim "whole" regardless of what creative other approach might be used in the future because one cannot undo what has already been done.

And you DID say that ONLY an admission of wrongdoing and a letter of apology should suffice as compensation in THIS case.

No, I did NOT equate the seriousness of a crime of rape with a civil violation and explained to you quite thoroughly exactly what I meant - that NEITHER penalty in either case serves to make the victim "whole" as it was you who objected to monetary penalties as not serving to make a victim "whole".

[Toucano]

78. Well then I declare "Game Over".

If we're not allowed to imagine a better system because it would be "pointless" the I suppose it is pointless to support any legislation that seeks to change ANYTHING.

Goodbye, Equal Pay!

Adieu, Gay Marriage!

Hasta luego, Wall Street Reform!

Arrivederci, Social Justice!

Sayonara, Living Wage!


Sorry old friends, but someone on the internet thinks we have to "work with the system we have", so it's pointless wondering or imagining or questioning or dreaming or acting. There is no better way. TorchTheWitch done told me.

Since every blade of grass, every leaf on every tree and every hair on every head can be counted, quantified, and monetized there is no need to imagine, discuss, or dream.

[TorchTheWitch]

80. can you not read?

You can discuss a different system in civil cases than the one we have and will have to be used in THIS case to your heart's content in some other thread. As I said, it is pointless to discuss some other system then the one we have in THIS thread since in THIS case it isn't going to matter. We are stuck with the system we have in THIS case whether or not we like it. Yes, game over for THIS case since THIS case is subject to the civil system we have whether we like it or not.

[Toucano]

86. Why should it have to be a different thread?

It seems perfectly appropriate to pose a question about monetizing damages here in a thread about the INSURANCE company not PAYING for liability for THIS case.

You are displaying wanton lack of curiosity and imagination, and you still haven't answered the question I posed to you.



You're the jury. You find a violation occurred. What is your monetary award of damages and how do you calculate it?

[laughingliberal]

Absolutely disgusting lack of empathy.

Someone's filming me in my bedroom without my knowledge or consent? You're damned right I want something done about it. And a lot of something!

[Toucano]

51. Money, Money, Money.

The salve of all wounds?

[laughingliberal]

53. Prison or money. Violating a person's civil rights is serious

And people are far too complicit in defending those who do these days. It's all in good fun til it's you it happens to.

edited punctuation

[Toucano]

55. Are you suggesting that I am defending the violation of these students?

I am concerned that perhaps you are, and that would be an error.



I am asking why we monetize everything, as if that was the only measure of value.



I don't know that this is the only way of resolving such things. I think there might be other ways, and I have asked.

So far, all I get is "That's how we do it in 'murica!"

As if that, alone, answers the question.

[laughingliberal]

57. I did not create the system of justice under which our country operates.

People are punished by fines or prison. That's about all there is, here. After 56,000 pictures have been taken, it's a little late for "I'm sorry." And the fact is that whatever penalty is imposed needs to be meaningful for the perps. Prison's good by me, too. But I don't think it'll happen.

[Hannah Bell]

63. Warning: if you do anything other than agree that the school employees are a bunch of

pervs who laciviously spied on random students at will, or that every allegation the plantiffs make in their filings isn't gospel, or that the lawsuit is not the best way to go about assessing the facts & providing remedy, or that assumptions are being made in the absence of complete investigation --

you'll be branded a supporter of perverts & police-state surveillance.

trust me.

[Toucano]

68. I fear your warning is heard too late.

Where were you an hour ago? :-)

I am obviously complicit and a surveillance perv by proxy, no?

:sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

70. Obviously so. Anyone who doesn't jerk their knee at the first whiff of sexcrime = criminal.

notice how dead threads presenting information which doesn't lend itself as easily to witch-hunts are. feel free to kick them now & then:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8200651


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8200647



you must not have been here when the story broke, and, among other completely unfounded assumptions, janitors were accused of stealing keys & passwords so they could log in to computers & view random naked children.

[Toucano]

74. Well thanks a lot!

Now you've gone and further complicated things by introducing the element of negligence over malice.

Now this whole thing smells like a pig on a jury-award-truffle.

[Hannah Bell]

76. so much less titillating, isn't it?

thanks for the kick.

[olegramps]

90. Maybe like the post about paying doctors with turnips would that be suitable?

[Hannah Bell]

91. no matter what they pay with, it's the injured parties who'll be paying most of it.

so what's the point?

the school is funded by the people living in the district.

do you find nothing humorous about damages from the injured parties being assessed as "punishment" for the injury?

In 2001, out of a total property tax rate of 17.367 mills per dollar of assessed valuation on properties in Lower Merion Township, 12.297 mills (70.81%) was payable to the Lower Merion School District...Over the same time, the Lower Merion School District (comprised of the Township and the Borough of Narberth) has increased its real property levy every year, and the County has both lowered and increased its millage at various times.

http://www.lowermerion.org/archive/rhenryrpt1.htm

[laughingliberal]

29. The purpose of monetary awards in lawsuits is not just to 'make the victim whole'

The precise reason for punitive damages is to make the damage to the perps meaningful so they don't do it again.

[Toucano]

33. I got the punitive portion.

I don't doubt or question that a fine punishes the offender.

Is that the only punishment we can think of, and is it always the most appropriate?

We obviously cannot send the school district to prison, but the individuals responsible made decisions that were (probably) criminal, so why not send those individuals to prison as both punishment for their wrongdoing and warning to others who might have that position in the future?

[laughingliberal]

46. I'm guessing that's a lot of people going to prison

If it's everyone who was involved in making the decision, everyone involved in implementing it, and everyone who had knowledge and did not come forward, then fine by me. Would open up a lot of jobs, I suppose.

[Hannah Bell]

38. lol. you act like it's a private corporation. "The $$$$" come from the students' parents and other

citizens of the district, primarily.

i.e. the parents will pay themselves for any "injury", plus the costs of the suit.

That must be why about half the parents in the district have signed petitions saying they don't wish to be part of a class action suit & don't want a class action suit to be certified.

[TorchTheWitch]

49. until they find out their own kids were spied on

then they'll jump so fast on the bandwagon to get a piece of the settlement pie for themselves your head would spin.

[Hannah Bell]

65. Parents meet to slam Lower Merion spy-cam suit

Not every parent in the Lower Merion School District wants to be part of the "class" that Blake Robbins and his lawyers have in mind.

As the Harriton High sophomore seeks to have his invasion-of-privacy lawsuit against the district certified as a class action, hundreds of parents are banding together in opposition...

"We're the ones that are going to have to pay the freight at the end of the day," said Michael Boni, a parent who helped organize last night's meeting through the Web site lmsdparents.org. "We are also unhappy that this is a distraction for the students. The fact that it's garnered as much local, regional and national press as it has is nothing that the parents want."

"There are a lot of people that feel the lawsuit is inappropriate, but they want to see exactly what happened, and, if there's an issue with privacy, get it rectified," said Bob Wegbreit, a Narberth councilman whose daughter attends Harriton. Wegbreit said nearly 400 families of high-schoolers in the district have signed a petition opposing the lawsuit on lmsdparents.org.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20100303_Parents_meet_to_slam_Lower_Merion_spy-cam_suit.html

[TorchTheWitch]

72. see post #49

repeat as necessary.

I don't give a fart in the wind about a bunch of LM parents who are so fucking selfish and greedy that they don't give a shit about being spied on by their school district. FUCK THEM.

[Hannah Bell]

75. see post #38. repeat as necessary. the irony = delicious.

[TorchTheWitch]

82. already responded - rinse repeat

Done with you and your silly games.

[MicaelS]

88. These parents sound like a bunch of Republicans or Teabaggers

Their first, and always most important issue, is their precious pocketbook. "Wahhh, MY money, MY taxes."

They don't care about the loss of privacy, they don't care about being spied on, their don't care about TPTB abusing their authority, it's all about money. The teabaggers didn't start protesting until a Democrat was in office, AND the recession affected them personally.

Just like Republicans who elected Bush, twice.

[TorchTheWitch]

14. would you be saying this if it was a case against the police dept?

or any other taxpayer funded entity?

Monetary penalty is how our civil justice system works, and it's sickening that anyone would be against it for those entities that are taxpayer funded. Imagine if police departments only had to write a letter of apology to anyone that was a victim of police abuse and people saying that should suffice!

Why in the world does anyone believe that government entities should be exempt from our civil justice system?

[Toucano]

20. How does a financial award make one "whole" after such a violation?

It punishes the violator, sure. I get that.

But the victims do not appear to have suffered any monetary damages as a result of this violation of their rights.

How does a monetary award make them whole?

[jberryhill]

24. So the kids can all afford a trip to Cancun, get naked, and make videos! /nt

[Toucano]

25. You're naughty!

LOL!

[laughingliberal]

30. Punitive damages are about making sure people do not repeat the offenses

Wrongful death suits don't bring the deceased back, either. It's about changing bad behavior.

[Toucano]

35. Does it really achieve that goal?

When has it proven effective against an institution?

I can recall several cases where the supposed "punitive" award was calculated into the "cost of doing business".

In this case, I am sure that wasn't considered, but generally speaking, are you sure we achieve the desired results?

[Hannah Bell]

40. considering its the parents & other citizens of the district who will pay any "award" it seems

pretty counter-productive.

[laughingliberal]

44. It does if the award is big enough and it doesn't if it's not

Yes. Many companies calculate the lawsuits into the cost of doing business. That's why tort reform is such a bad idea. It has been shown repeatedly that if the cost of doing something is less than not doing it, the behavior will continue. And it's not just about changing the behavior of the perpetrators. It is for a clear message to other institutions who think civil rights' violations are worth whatever gains they think they will get from it.

[Hannah Bell]

67. A school district isn't a private company.

Parents meet to slam Lower Merion spy-cam suit

Not every parent in the Lower Merion School District wants to be part of the "class" that Blake Robbins and his lawyers have in mind.

As the Harriton High sophomore seeks to have his invasion-of-privacy lawsuit against the district certified as a class action, hundreds of parents are banding together in opposition...

"We're the ones that are going to have to pay the freight at the end of the day," said Michael Boni, a parent who helped organize last night's meeting through the Web site lmsdparents.org. "We are also unhappy that this is a distraction for the students. The fact that it's garnered as much local, regional and national press as it has is nothing that the parents want."

"There are a lot of people that feel the lawsuit is inappropriate, but they want to see exactly what happened, and, if there's an issue with privacy, get it rectified," said Bob Wegbreit, a Narberth councilman whose daughter attends Harriton. Wegbreit said nearly 400 families of high-schoolers in the district have signed a petition opposing the lawsuit on lmsdparents.org.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20100303_Parents_meet_to_slam_Lower_Merion_spy-cam_suit.html

[TorchTheWitch]

31. NOTHING can make them whole!

How does putting a rapist in jail make the rape victim whole? Would you suggest the rapist do nothing more than write a letter of apology to the rape victim and that's it???

Monetary penalty is the only civil penalty our justice system provides and it's common knowledge that it doesn't make the victim whole, but it IS a penalty that provides a measure of deterrence and offers SOMETHING to the victim as compensation for what CAN'T be undone.

[Toucano]

36. You're equating this violation of privacy with an act of rape? n-t

[laughingliberal]

45. If it was me, I would feel violated. And it is a civil rights' violation

Not that our civil rights are worth the paper they're written on these days. But still....

[TorchTheWitch]

52. same concept about making "whole"

Sending a rapist to prison does not make the rape victim "whole" anymore than a civil monetary penalty makes a civilly abused victim "whole".

In other words, in either case the penalty has nothing to do with making the victim "whole" because what has been done to make them a victim cannot be undone. The penalty whether jail in a criminal case or monetary in a civil case is not intended to make the victims "whole" because such a thing cannot be done - the harm has already happened and that harm cannot be undone by ANY kind of penalty. In both cases it is a penalty the wrongdoer must pay as a measure of compensation and serves as a deterrent.

[Toucano]

61. But you're not saying that having images captured and stored

of you without your knowledge or consent is the "same concept" as the violent act of rape, right?

Cause that would likely be a bit more hyperbole than the universe could support.

We're talking about a civil rights violation, no? The right to privacy was violated here.

I don't think rape is considered a violation of the right to privacy in any jurisdiction.

Apples meet oranges.

[TorchTheWitch]

79. stop trying to twist my words

The "concept" I referred to is the penalty. The penalty of jail in a case of rape does not make the rape victim anymore "whole" than the monetary penalty in a civil case makes the victim "whole". You argued that there should be no monetary penalty in the LM spying civil case BECAUSE it did not serve to make the victim "whole". I responded with an example of the jail penalty in a criminal case does not make the victim "whole" EITHER, therefore the penalty of jail should not be thrown out the window as you suggested be done in the LM spying civil case and further suggested that only an admission of wrongdoing and a letter of apology should suffice BECAUSE a monetary penalty would not make the victim in this civil case "whole".

[Toucano]

84. Okay. Then why choose rape for your criminal example?

You could have chosen robbery or fraud or murder or drug possession.

It's you who's twisting, by the way. Go back to the beginning. I asked, "must" it be always money? "Perhaps" a different remedy could suffice? I never said that something "should" be anything.

I understand and accept your point about criminal violations resulting in jail (and/or a fine) and civil violations resulting in an award of damages. I have questioned why and how we monetize the value of those damages. No one wants to address that.

The award of monetary compensation is written into the law. That doesn't mean it's the only nor the best solution.

Is there nothing else of value in this society besides money?

Frankly, I am sure you are well aware, that money tends to cast dispersions on the motives of many who might seek justice. The jack-pot payday is perhaps something that could be left behind.

[TorchTheWitch]

92. because I've been a victim of multiple sexual assaults

Therefore it was the first crime that penalizes with a prison penalty that came to mind. Happy now?

No, our civil justice system works on a system of monetary penalty. If you're one of those people that considers anyone seeking the only justice allowed under our civil justice system as seeking a "jack-pot payday" then you're one of those people that wrongly and cruelly disparages victims from the only justice they are allowed to attain... and that's a problem with YOU and others of that mind-set, not the system that has been in place for hundreds of years.

As I said before I AM NOT INTERESTED in discussing any imaginary civil justice system we do not have nor will likely have at any time in the future and that will not be utilized in this case. And in going back to the beginning, I and others have repeatedly informed you that yes, we MUST work under this system because it is the only civil justice system we have whether or not we like it, and no, a mere admission of wrongdoing and letter or apology come no where close to being sufficient either as a penalty or compensation to the victim(s). That's exactly what I said from the beginning, have said it repeatedly and am still saying it now, so no, it is not me that is twisting anyone's words.

[Cid_B]

26. You'll have to talk to this guy...

[MicaelS]

89. Why money, as oppposed to admission and apology?

Because as others have said, money is pretty much all we have. No, money IS NOT going to "fix" the intrusion. But, big corporations and other organizations being sued will often refuse to make any admission of guilt, or apologize. Doing so could open them up for CRIMINAL prosecution down the line, or further civil cases. They also often require the plaintiff to sign an NDA as part of the settlement.

An apology is insufficient. I want everyone in the school administration, who had any knowledge of this spying, fired. I would like to see as many of these school admins as possible, jailed. They need to be made an example of, such that other schools will not even consider invading a student's privacy.

We need a Federal law, with appropriate criminal penalties preventing this from ever happening again.

And we need to get rid of the "Zero Tolerance" mentality and regulations, which spawn this type of behavior, from all school districts, nationwide.

And this is a great quote as a response to one of the numerous articles (not here on DU) about LMSD and the webcam case. It says exactly what I feel.

This all boils down to the unethical assumption that schools are instruments of social control and that school administrators have some sort of say so on students' lives outside of school. It all started with the VP questioning what the kid was doing at home. It was like she was giving him a chance to turn himself in... We are here to educate, not to be officers of societal ethics enforcement. This whole idea that kids can be punished at school for what they do outside of school is SCARY... it is Fascist, Manipulative, and encroaches on our Constitutional Rights. Administrators now try to act like the secret social police... trying to pick up on signs of non-conformity. FIRE THE PIGS! Send the technocratic control freaks to the unemployment line and see how they feel when they have to justify what they do when they're not at work.

[Shallah Kali]

12. It was like a window into "a little LMSD soap opera," a staffer ... "I know, I love it" said Cafiero

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20100416_1_000s_of_Web_cam_images__suit_says.html

Back at district offices, the Robbins motion says, employees with access to the images marveled at the tracking software. It was like a window into "a little LMSD soap opera," a staffer is quoted as saying in an e-mail to Carol Cafiero, the administrator running the program.

"I know, I love it," she is quoted as having replied.

The motion offers a wider glimpse into the now-disabled program that spawned Robbins' lawsuit and has shined an international spotlight on the district.

In the filing, the Penn Valley family says the district's records show that the controversial tracking system captured more than 400 photos and screen images from 15-year-old Robbins' school-issued laptop during two weeks in the fall, and that "thousands of webcam pictures and screen shots have been taken of numerous other students in their homes."

Robbins and his parents, Michael and Holly, contend that e-mails turned over to them by the district suggest Cafiero "may be a voyeur" who might have viewed some of the photos on her home computer.

The motion says Cafiero, who has been placed on paid leave, has failed to turn that computer over to the plaintiffs despite a court order, and asks a judge to sanction her.

[Hannah Bell]

41. ...

Mandracchia also took issue with Haltzman's use of district e-mail excerpts in the motion filed Thursday. The motion said another Lower Merion schools employee, after viewing photos from the Web cameras, had written to Cafiero: "It's like a little LMSD soap opera."

According to the motion, Cafiero e-mailed back: "I know, I love it!"

Mandracchia said the e-mail exchange between Cafiero and the employee, Amanda Wuest, took place more than a year before the district activated the tracking system on Blake Robbins' computer. The attorney gave The Inquirer a copy of what he said was the entire exchange, dated Sept. 19, 2008.

The copy appears to show that the two women were responding to a report from four students that a laptop was missing from a Harriton High gym. Officials first checked surveillance cameras in the building but saw nothing suspicious, according to the e-mail.

Referring to the tracking program's tools, Wuest wrote back to Cafiero: "Hopefully, if they were taken, we'll get some screen captures/pictures over the weekend."


http://www.philly.com/inquirer/front_page/20100417_L__Merion_to_let_parents_see_secretly_snapped_photos.html

[newtothegame]

13. ? Where in the story is your headline at all ?

:shrug: Misleading. Unreccd.

[Occulus]

15. This isn't LBN; headlines do not need to match in GD

Rec'd to counter your unrec

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. It's not misleading. Do you think sanyone would be stupid enough to think...

...an insurance cmpany actually said "go fuck yourself"? Come on.

[Rex]

17. Oh wow, whoever is superintendent is must be a moran deluxe!

NO insurance company would offer to cover crimes committed by the school district!

[jberryhill]

19. That kid should get every dollar that county has for life

Screw 'em. Sell every piece of township property, close the schools and sell them too. If the people living there don't like it, they can move to a different township.

Those people elected the board that hired the administrators. Screw 'em all.

[KonaKane]

22. A-HAHAAAAAA!!

"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" - Johnny Lydon

[Hannah Bell]

37. yes, it's great that the parents & citizens of the county & state will pay the legal costs.

who do you think funds "the school"?

[laughingliberal]

48. Oh, in that case, we should just overlook the gross violation of civil rights here.

That would pretty much give any institution funded by public money a license to do whatever because we don't want the citizens to have to pay the legal costs. Not a good stand for justice, IMO.

[TorchTheWitch]

56. let's just ignore the gross violations of all publically funded entities

Like the police department. No more civil suits against gross civil violations against any police department because police departments are taxpayer funded. Let them just do whatever the hell they want and get off scott free and just hope that getting off scott free all the time doesn't make them serial abusers.

Damn, do you believe this shit???

[Hannah Bell]

59. Nor does *your* straw man address the facts noted in the post.

[SidDithers]

95. It's a strawman to take your position to it's logical conclusion?...

Really?

Sid

[laughingliberal]

60. It's shocking. nt

[Hannah Bell]

73. indeed. especially from "liberals".

[Hannah Bell]

58. Your straw man doesn't address the facts noted in the post.

[laughingliberal]

64. Fail. The fact that the citizens will have to pay the fines does not mean the violators should not

be held to account. And you can post on this and defend these perps and their violations of the civil rights of these kids all night and it won't alter my opinion in the least.

[Hannah Bell]

69. Parents meet to slam Lower Merion spy-cam suit

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20100303_Parents_meet_to_slam_Lower_Merion_spy-cam_suit.html

[Rex]

81. Wow, I'm glad I don't live in that district. They seem happy to give

away their fellow neighbors civil rights, because it is inconvenient doncha-know! The poor kids (think of the kids...yeah right how fake) education has been disrupted and we don't want Little Susie to learn a REAL life lesson - adults will spy on you while you sleep. Sleep Little Susie, no need to worry if you've done nothing wrong - a guiltless mind is a happy mind.

Let us see how much people like it when we find out THEIR kid was spied on too. :eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

83. more straw. assiduously avoidance.

[Rex]

85. Hey if you want to let your civil rights go, be my guest.

You have all the straw here, as is apparent in all the threads you've posted in about this topic. But keep trying, we all need someone to act irrational when the facts are all right there for people to see. Keep up the good work, someone else might come along and actually agree with you...or not.

[Hannah Bell]

87. your basis for the assumption i "want to let my civil rights go" being?

[laughingliberal]

94. We see. It's just the violations of others' civil rights which you find acceptable

and not in need of action. Typical.

[Rex]

98. Just in this case, mind you.

Wonder why...

[Hannah Bell]

99. your ability to spin straw is outstanding. btw, not too strong on the right to fair trial, are you?

as long as we're spinning straw, i might as well join in

lol

[laughingliberal]

93. Does not change one thing for me

Plenty of people have defended the civil rights' violations propagated by the Bush administration but it doesn't make it right in my mind. Also looks as if these are parents of kids not violated. So, what's their message? It's OK with us that this was done to someone else's child? Typical

[tammywammy]

103. That article's from March

Wait until they start contacting the other parents of students that were also photographed. Plus a lot more information has come out about this case since March 3.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. If we can have "zero tolerance" anti-drug policies that make officials think they're entitled to

activate a camera remotely on a kid in his bedroom and then haul him into the office for taking a handful of illicit mike & ike candies (O NO!!!! DRUGGGGGGZZZZZZ!!!!), then I should think we can also have "zero tolerance" policies for out of control administrators who do idiotic shit like spy on students in their own homes.

Monetary damages no good? Fine. Fire them ALL, then criminally prosecute them as you would any other creepy fucking voyeur watching underage kids.

[TorchTheWitch]

62. well we can't do THAT!

Prisons are taxpayer funded! NOBODY should be sent to prison for ANYTHING because that might make taxes go up! It would be like penalizing yourself having your taxes pay to keep criminals in prison! What's this craziness of using tax funds to penalize anyone???

:sarcasm:

[Ignis]

100. Excellent point, Warren.

Let's face facts: This comes down to an abuse of authority. So those who are taking the side of the school district here need to ask themselves why they believe the administrators to be above the law.

To spin this any other way is just that: spin.

[anigbrowl]

96. So what's your solution?

I'm not normally a fan of insurance companies either, but I fail to see why they should pay out for a case of teachers abusing their authority. The school district was certainly remiss to the degree that they didn't set firm guidelines for what behavior was acceptable by teachers, and the teachers and administrators at the actual school should be personally liable.