Oil rig has sunk. More oil than the ExxonValdez, Is the Obama offshore expansion still fabulous?

[Bluebear]

President Barack Obama on Wednesday announced a plan to expand oil drilling off US coasts, drawing protests from green groups but charges by Republicans it did not go far enough. The decision was a reversal of Obama's early 2008 campaign strategy, when he argued that lifting curbs on offshore drilling would take years to have an impact....

http://article.wn.com/view/2010/04/01/Obama_to_expand_offshore_oil_drilling/

===

More oil released 40 miles from Louisiana's shore than the ExxonValdez. Is there still great enthusiasm because our "side" has proposed it?

[90-percent]

1. More, huh?

Well, not to worry, the award when we win the lawsuit will more than cover all clean up expenses.

Just like it did for the Exxon-Valdez.

Oh...wait a minute.........

-90% Jimmy

[amborin]

2. no more mention of a green economy initiative?

[cbdo2007]

3. No enthusiasm for it but any other President would have done the same thing.

I knew Obama was throwing us a BS line in the election on off-shore drilling because it's going to happen no matter who is in charge. Even if you know someone you think wouldn't have expanded off-shore drilling, once they get to the oval office and start getting memos, they seem to do that 360 pretty quickly.

[mamaleah]

4. CNN corrected themselves on the more comment.

It was not more. They just corrected themselves about 15 minutes ago.

[nebenaube]

31. this has to be bs...

this is a fountain head of a reservoir; not the finite hold of a tanker barge.

[AuntPatsy]

5. No sympathy for those lives lost in this tragic accident? Just snark and finger pointing?

what a difference when it was the miners...I am honestly disappointed in some of du today...does it always have to be about the politics? Those workers are trying to make a living and raise their families just like any other american citizens, the amount of disdain or outright highlighted lack of sympathy for the lives missing is a bit disheartening to see on a so called liberal board..I would expect that from republicans, any and all of them..

Not all oil workers are the enemy people. They provide a service that every single person I know utilizes daily...very sad

[Shell Beau]

16. I hate what it will do environmentally, but right now my thoughts

are with the families of the missing. They probably will never be found, and that is another tragedy.

[AuntPatsy]

17. I agree with all of your statement....a tragic accident with long range horrors still to come as

would a tidal wave tragedy, a ground breaking earthquake, a violent upheaval of a wakening volcano etc...for those with knowledge, there is probably not more effort and dollars focusing on safety issues than in the oilfields of this country which includes the drilling aspect, it bothers me how some completely ignore that very real fact, issues of safety are ignored in far too many other industries and yet hardly do you hear the amount of outrage as you do against any and all in the oil industry, the bushes have given them a bad name and that is more than sad its willful ignoring and bashing of those not as guilty of caring about the all might dollars over safety and concern for not only the environment but it's workers and others who come in contact with said industry

[left coaster]

27. +1 nt

[Bluebear]

34. A. This is not politics, it is about the environment. B. Nowhere did it say oilworkers are enemies

The safety of ALL people trying to earn a wage is a real concern. So take your "you're like a Republican" post elsewhere because you really insulted the intent of the post.

[AuntPatsy]

44. Well I will tell you what, I have read du since yesterday and I take back nothing...

Mining accident verses oilfield accident...du response...speaks for itself...

I will add that your omitting how worker safety conscience and environmental safety conscience the oilfield honestly is is proof positive to me what your intent with your op was..at least be fair....you were not..just accept the criticism as it stands, it is not only you that stands guilty of ignoring the whole picture and all the facts...its okay, no one is perfect.....

[AuntPatsy]

59. Bluebear, more often than not I only have time to read a small portion of the internet period

honestly it was not my intention to hurt your feelings and I was not singling you out, but the truth is, I was hurt as well, I have family members, friends loved ones in both fields Miners and Oilfield workers, I know a bit about both, and to be honest, it bothers me how people simply make bald statements without stating all the facts....

Granted, your op was not about the missing men but in all reality, they are part of this current issue being visited....

Its sad that you felt the need to keep me from replying privately and so I felt I had to at least have my say as you have had yours....

I have had people I care about hurt and or killed in both avenues of mining and oilfield related areas. I simply felt that there was no real caring about not only the men missing and more than likely gone, but those that will spend months if not years recovering from severe burns etc...it is not a pretty site nor one that should be ignored by people claiming to care about the innocent...

again, I did not single you out, your op just struck me at the time I felt the need to say my piece, it was to all those who felt that saying over again "drill baby drill" etc, etc instead of showing compassion and sympathy for this tragic accident that some will have a hard time ever forgetting the majority of du compassion fell flat...

Honestly, I guess I just felt the need to point out there is no difference from distancing ones sympathy for some hurting and instead taking the political stance so soon after such a tragic occurrence where so many lives will likely be effected...

I did not call you a republican, I know your not, and I am honestly sorry that I hurt your feelings..sometimes I just have to have a say you know? I am sorry that you felt singled out, not my intention..

But I did liken the last two days to more of something I would see or read at say freepland when it comes to showing sympathy for an issue that one claims to despise so much....

I know for a fact how hard the oilfield workers and owners work at insuring safety is paramount regardless of the cost..I have heard personally stories of burn victims and the horror and pain they must face, the loss of family etc happens, so many lives hurt, so many effected in different ways, the environmental ones I know was your intention just as painful and horrific..

again, it was an accident, no one could have predicted it..

we can hate the likes of bush and company but I know many oilfield personally and we cannot liken them all into one category as do some simply because of their ties...I am not saying you did that with your op, others have...

Oil is a big part of our culture, without it, this country would not run as well as it does, it amazes me how some refuse to accept that for now, it is the cheapest form of energy and regardless of what some feel, it is not the only energy source that can cause disaster, the windmill farms are not fairing well in being innocent, with wildlife becoming the victims of those big ugly windmills being the last place they will ever encounter on this earth, trees of lands are cleared away as well for these farms...corn being used instead of oil is a joke, corn is needed for people to eat, people are starving there is not enough food worldwide as it is for some countries, taking away such a product from their diets could as some other things cause lasting effects and not in a good way...

Nothing we have at present is free of harm to environments and or our people..nothing....we people leave a mess and have for centuries regardless if technology is used or not, how soon some forget the streets of big cities and small villages, that possessed no technological energy sources that could cause the air to become a death trap for the environment and yet these same ancestors of our could be just as guilty of polluting the environment enough that it can and did infect others with disease and or eventual death or long term losses..


Until we as a society come together more and find a way to ensure our waste simply disappears instead of reentering our surroundings I don't see much change in the future of this world...and I just don't believe enough people care to give up their creature comforts...even computers are not exactly environmentally friendly when you are trying to find a way to get rid of those no longer usable...


I just feel that oil gets a bad name...there are plenty who deserve to feel shame...but at a time like this..the concern should have been for those men and women and their families and or friends...

I know I rambled..again....this message is not singling you out, it is for others as well,.I am sorry if I hurt your feelings honestly...I will be more careful in the future and not allow for one to feel singled out..

I guess I am just tired of everyone being angry all the time and angry at each other..and all because we are being played by the powers to be to continue in order that we do not have time to come together and focus on the real problems in this country..we have been so easily divided that it not only saddens me but it leaves me with little hope for common sense to prevail any time soon...

United we stand..Divided we fall..

It seems to me the fall is inevitable until the fairness doctrine becomes standard practice for all concerned with issues important to us all as a unit and the hate talk is curtailed from being blared twenty four seven all around the world..too much heated and angry rhetoric being bandied about by so many that it seems inevitable that we are destined to fail...they win if we cannot find a way to put behind us the distrust and hurt that has piled so very high up...and I am not so sure that even I could forgive some of the past hurts and or angry words..if I cannot, I don't have hopes that enough others can as well...

sad times ahead...

One more time, honestly sorry...

[ecstatic]

6. Was that oil rig there because of Obama's offshore expansion plan?

If not, why link the two together? :shrug:

[villager]

9. Probably because there'll be more oil rigs, and more such incidents...

...if the President's about-face goes forward?

:shrug:

[ecstatic]

11. The 'exploration/research' period will take many years

The additional drilling may never even happen.

[dflprincess]

12. Oh, but you don't understand,

this is a pre-Obama oil rig. Any rig build after Obama's endorsement of off shore drilling will never, ever have an incident like this. :sarcasm:

[Javaman]

33. I guess you don't drive to work, huh? or eat any foods packaged in plastic?

or any number of a million things that are possible due to our grossly dependant oil soaked society.

glass houses, you know?

[Bluebear]

47. Indeed. They will be made out of gold and will pose no danger.

[Walk away]

19. So we should let people all over the world deal with these spills in order to supply us with oil?

Our thirst for foreign oil has created the war zone we call the Middle East, polluted waters and deserts all around the third world, caused horrifically deadly wars and propped up dictators and mad men.

If we are going to use this shit we should get it out of our own back yard. We need to do it a safely as possible and learn to clean it up expediently.

Where do you want us to drill? Is there a group of people you think should suffer for our convenience?

[villager]

26. and the policy to radically reduce our dependence on oil would be...?

n/t

[Javaman]

39. Shhhhhh, everyone is pointing figures. can't interrupt that!

don't bring up the C words of Conservation and Cutting back. Those are un-american things.

I just love how everyone points fingers at the middle east, when our buddies, the Canadians are our number one supplier.

I don't hear anyone yelling about them. Wonder why? could it be that they are pasty white, talk english and enjoy being the model to live by for national health care? Their national health care wouldn't be possible it it wasn't for their oil and us buying most of it.

But let's just look past the gigantic superfund site in the making in the Alberta tar sands. That makes this rig sinking look like an olive oil spill on the counter top.

we live, eat, drink and sleep oil in this nation. I'm always so amused when an accident happens and everyone gets their underwear in a bunch as if the oil didn't exist until the accident happened. LOL

I love america, the land of complete disconnect.

[polly7]

48. FWIW .......... you have no idea how many Canadians hate the

Tar Sands and would much prefer we stop polluting our lakes and rivers and decimating the environment to supply others ........ who don't yell much at all about it. We've been yelling since before the first bucket was dug.

Pasty white? Check out the diversity in any city in Canada and you'll see how mistaken you are. Nice.

I've never seen a Canadian anywhere say our model of HC was what anyone should emulate. It works for us and we're grateful for it. The only time it's brought up is when one of us defends it against the lies about it we see. It's worked for us long before the Tar Sands but definitely, we'd much appreciate it if that oil was banned in the U.S.

[Javaman]

49. perhaps I should clarify...

the pasty white Canadian conservatives.

Oh I know you all have been protesting, but just like here, it apparently doesn't do a whole lot of good.

And don't get me wrong, my family has a cabin in Ontario, I really enjoy Canada a lot, but like the US, I don't care for a number of it's policies.

[Walk away]

43. We will still need oil for decades. Where do you propose we get it from?

Someone else's back yard I suppose.

This country is never going to reduce it's oil consumption until we are the ones who have to pay the price for it. And I don't mean dollars to dictators.

[Javaman]

32. Actually, it was probably there since Clinton.

but what does that matter when dealing with hyperbole?

[Uncle Joe]

7. I imagine this will add to the size of the dead zone where no sea life can survive.

:(

Thanks for the thread, Bluebear.

[no_hypocrisy]

8. Happy Earth Day!

:sarcasm:

[Dappleganger]

10. Yeah, talk about the irony!

Hopefully this will put that offshore drilling nonsense to rest!

[tomm2thumbs]

15. +1

to be followed up with 'Sad Earth Day' so we can at least be accurate 50% of the time

[earth mom]

40. Yep-Happy Earth Day-NOT!

:grr:

[jobycom]

13. Not to belittle the disaster, nor to defend Obama's expansion of offshore drilling, but the Valdez

spill was along a shoreline, and that made it worse than a spill at sea. The oil was contained on at least one, and almost three, sides by land, so that made it more devestating to a wider variety of wildlife, and it made cleanup worse.

More oil was spilled by Katrina than by the Valdez spill, too, but as with this oil rig, the oil is at sea, and less of it will reach land, and it will be easier to contain. I'm not saying it's not still a major disaster--it will contaminate the water and the marine life and kill a lot of creatures and some will reach the shore and cause more damage to a very fragile ecosystem that is already under attack. It's not minor at all. But it is a different type of disaster, so the barrel to barrel comparison isn't exactly accurate in terms of the problems it will cause, in much the same way that a fire covering an acre of land in a rural grassland would not be the same as an acre of fire in an urban community.

As for the offshore drilling, I'm hesitant, but I'm not completely opposed. No matter where we get our energy, we are causing major damage, and personally, I'd rather risk the danger in our own back yard than to risk it overseas where our oil-to-blood ratio is unforgivably high. I'd also rather risk an oil spill at sea than a nuclear meltdown on land, and when you talk about coal even the normal operations are hazardous. Certainly we need to cut back our energy consumption, but we all know that when we do that we also cut back jobs and production in general, and then we complain about that. The solution is of course, as we all know, an aggressive shift to a cleaner, less destructive energy source, or likely multiple sources, and a shift away from oil. Especially, we need to shift away from foreign oil and the tremendous cost in lives and safety of our dependence.

So my priority is that I'm not thrilled with offshore drilling in areas that we haven't already screwed to Hell, but my biggest complaint is that it is not part of a grander, more aggressive plan to make the big picture better. If it is to reduce foreing oil consumption and to stop our predatory foreign consumerism, that's a balancing criteria. If it is part of a plan to slowly shift us away from polluting forms of energy towards a system that can fuel us for the next century, I'm somewhat amenable to it. But what scares me is that it seems to be more of the reaction of a junkie, of us simply finding a new vein to jab a needle into to suck out a few more drops of pleasure and damn the costs, and damn the future.

In short, my problem isn't that we are going to drill off the coast of Virginia, but that we don't know what we are going to do after that. We are going to kill something to get our oil, and in my moral opinion we should be killing only ourselves for our pleasure, so Virginia is as good as anyplace else. The problem to me is that we don't have any exit strategy, or any idea how to handle the future. We are heading towards an iceburg and we are arguing which ballroom we are going to dance in.

Sorry, longer than I meant it to be. I will excuse you from reading it. :)

[al bupp]

21. Good points and worth the read, EOM

[yowzayowzayowza]

25. No excuse necessary. n/t

[Dappleganger]

58. What kind of damage does harnessing the wind or sun do?

[jobycom]

63. I don't know, why do you ask?

I'm confused where that question fits with my post... :shrug:

I guess an answer without understanding why you're asking would be that it depends on how you make the stuff to harness it with. Wind power takes a lot of land, and it takes energy to build the equipment for both wind and sun. Solar panels aren't cheap or easy to build. My point is we need a plan to shift to more of such sources of energy, so I'm not sure what you're asking.

[laughingliberal]

14. knr. nt

[amborin]

18. who is un-reccing this? guess it's the drillers

[TheKentuckian]

20. Its perfectly safe don't ya know.

Just keep shitting into the sea. Brilliant.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

23. Kill baby, kill! Then spill baby, spill!

[SidDithers]

24. Exxon Valdez spilled ~ 11 million gallons...

at the 13,000 gallons per hour spill rate reported earlier, this rig would have to leak for 35 days to equal what was spilled from the Valdez.

Sid

[stray cat]

28. Are you still using energy or anything made with energy - If so STOP!

if you want to avoid oil spills. Anyone who uses energy or anything made with energy is to blame.

[NightWatcher]

30. or you could put solar pv cells on your roof, a wind turbine in your yard.....

maybe drive a diesel powered by biofuel, or hell even used oil from the fry-o-laytor.

Why is it that "drill baby drill" was evil when Palin/McSame wanted to do it, but now that Obama is in favor it is somehow the smart way to go?

[Bluebear]

57. ++++++

(And the answer is, because of who you are dealing with here.)

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[malaise]

35. Why do you think M$Greedia is barely covering

this horrific explosion. Yesterday they were following window cleaners stuck 34 stories in the air but eleven missing oil workers and the polluted gulf of Mexico does not warrant live coverage. Not one of them is covering this and we all know why.

[ecstatic]

36. At the end of the day, anyone who uses oil is part of the problem

And that includes everyone who drives cars, planes, or rides public buses.

[icymist]

38. For you bluebear....

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

42. Betcha Gore regrets endorsing Obama now. nt

[grahamhgreen]

45. We MUST move beyond oil. More drilling is wrong. Nuclear is wrong. Coal is wrong.

We MUST move toward unlimited, renewable energy.

the time is now.

[ShortnFiery]

54. Exactly! We can go into the future of renewable energy, or keep warmongering ...

in the Middle East while trashing our environment at home.

BTW if they don't cap this damn thing soon, there's going to be significant environmental damage.

[grahamhgreen]

55. It's not cost effective when you count how much enviro destruction is caused by these crap fuels.

[arcadian]

46. How fitting for Earth Day.

The planet is fucked.

[anigbrowl]

50. It certainly demonstrates that drilling carries big risks

Anyone who proposes doing so will have to credibly show how they intend to mitigate those risks before getting a license.

[arcadian]

51. Oh my, don't comment on this.

It could look bad for President Obama on Earth Day.

[Bluebear]

56. And that is the only thing a certain contigent cares about.

It makes you sick, what?

[BlooInBloo]

52. Heard there was an earthquake in cali today. I'm pretty sure that's Obama's fault too.

[ShortnFiery]

53. Only if he wishes to build another Nuclear Reactor on a fault line.

:silly:

[spanone]

60. what enthusiasm? i fucking hate it

[The Straight Story]

61. Sun is gonna die out, earth will die - still a fan of Nature? (nt)

[underseasurveyor]

62. Sad for those killed and their families.

Just one more reason offshore drilling is a bad idea. Hurts nature and humans alike.

[DefenseLawyer]

64. It remains to be seen

From what I can tell the oil companies haven't indicated they are all that eager to drill at all in those new areas. So yeah, if by making that move he can politically neutralize the "drill baby drill" talking point, knowing that it won't really result in any new drilling, then it's a smart move as part of his overall energy policy. I'm more bothered by all the money he is flushing into the nuclear power plant hole.

[xchrom]

65. Recommend

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[retread]

67. I suspect this tragedy will be flipped by the propagandists to become an example

of how "little" damage was done due to our "modern" oil-spill clean-up methods and subsequently cited as yet another "reason" to proceed with off shore drilling.

[ShortnFiery]

68. Yes, the power elite can now seemingly "make day into night." But if they can't ...

accomplish this feat by propaganda of manufacturing consent, they'll do WHAT THEY WANT to do anyway. What are "the little people" going to do about it? They are in charge and can later re-write history in order to cover up their mistakes.

As long as we TOLERATE their behavior by continuing to elect them, they'll continue to transfer wealth from the Middle Class to the upper 1% unabated.

[retread]

75. Reality doesn't matter. Only the perception matters. After re-reading

"People's History of the United States" and "The Shock Doctrine" I have relearned something I thought I knew in my youth. Elections are ALLOWED to really matter by the 1% only when a safety valve is needed. Afterwards they go to work to undo the minor changes wrought by those elections.

[onenote]

69. because some people only read the latest post: the oil rig spill is much LESS than the valdez

I'm not suggesting that the oil rig disaster is not a big deal. Of course it is. But the assertion that it involves more oil than the Valdez is simply wrong (as others up thread have tried to point out). The Valdez spilled over 10 million gallons of oil. The rig spill is estimated, worse case, to involve around 330,000 gallons of oil and another 700,000 gallons of diesel fuel. Bad, but not in the same league as the Valdez

[ShortnFiery]

73. Have they Capped OFF the leak yet? No. We are still assessing the horrific damage may occur.

The Deepwater Horizon had burned violently for nearly two days until it sank Thursday morning. The fire's out, and officials had initially feared as much as 336,000 gallons of crude oil a day could be rising from the sea floor 5,000 feet below.

Coast Guard Rear Adm. Mary Landry said Friday morning that no oil appeared to be leaking from the well head at the ocean floor, nor was any leaking at the water's surface. However, Landry said crews were closely monitoring the rig for any more crude that might spill out.

The oil currently being contained was residual from the explosion and sinking.
"If it gets landward, it could be a disaster in the making," said Cynthia Sarthou, executive director for the environmental group Gulf Restoration Network.

[onenote]

76. the OP said "more oil released" than the Valdez

Not only is that incorrect today, it is speculative in the extreme to suggest that it could end up at a level beyond the Valdez.
Agree?

[Blue-Jay]

70. Damn you, Fartbama!

*shakes fist*

[lonestarnot]

71. Still sucks ass!

[WeDidIt]

72. Well head is NOT leaking

This is a much smaller spill than originally reported.

[ShortnFiery]

74. But it hasn't been capped yet. That's when it will be SAFE. eom

[icymist]

77. This could very well be winding up bigger than the ExxonValdez.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8214071

With this thing leaking 42,000 gallons per day!

[Statistical]

78. Well the Valdzed leaked 11 million gallons.

So that would be 230 days straight of leaking at 42K gallons a day.

[Cetacea]

79. Just friggin' great.