Pro-life group at the college my son attends.

[one_voice]

I just received a call from my son and his girlfriend. Apparently the University of Delaware's campus has been invaded by the huge billboards of disgusting images. They were both very upset. Recently I watched the documentary Unborn in America, and asked my son if these tactics have been used at his campus, at that point they hadn't been.

I so flippin angry over this. WTF gives these people the right to use these kinds of tactics? I pay tuition, he/and other students should have a say as to whether these kinds of things take place.

I told him if they tried to talk to him, to tell them to f-off. I know that was wrong, but damn I'm pissed. :grr:

Here's a link...

http://community.feministing.com/2010/04/warning-offensive-pro-life-dis.html

[slackmaster]

1. It's not up to students to decide who is allowed to come on to a university campus

That's the school administration's prerogative.

Part of growing up politically is learning to confront those with whom you disagree. Help your son grow from this experience.

[one_voice]

2. Yes, I understand

that it's the adminstration's decision. I just wish the kids that attend had more of a say.

Thank goodness my son is more laid back than I am, and wouldn't tell them to f-off. He handles confrontation pretty well, I guess it just angers me that anyone would have to see this. It's positioned at a point on the campus that it's hard to miss.

I have no problem with other's expressing their views -in a respectful manner- but I don't consider this respectful.

[slackmaster]

3. I agree with you, those people are disrespectful

I also think it's inappropriate to put distracting, disturbing images in a learning environment.

I'd be writing a strongly worded letter to the Chancellor or other authorities.

[paulsby]

22. the 1st amendment protects speech that is disrespectful

i am pro-choice and i 100% support the right of these students to protest the right of choice

free speech and free discourse. it's what's for dinner

[enlightenment]

4. Perhaps your son and his girlfriend can gather signatures and present

their objections to the administration. They should also check and see if any group on campus tried to offer a counter-balancing exhibit (or table with information, etc). I'm not saying that any group did, but they should find out.

The best defense is a good offense, right? A well-reasoned argument to the appropriate officials - or putting together a countering exhibit - is the most effective way to prevent this sort of thing from happening again. Walking away, whether or not it is accompanied by an 'FU' is just giving tacit permission to the offenders.

[one_voice]

10. Very good idea..

I didn't think about telling them to do a counter balance exhibit. Maybe I'll help them do it.

I know I shouldn't have gotten as angry as I did, but it was a gut reaction.

When my daughter went to UD there was a gay person that was beaten, and a group of students got together and held a candle vigil and something like workshops to help bring to light the problems many of the (gay) students were dealing with. They worked toward finding solutions. It turned out really well, and raised awareness. I was very proud of her when she got involved and tried to make a difference.

Her brother is like her, just a little more reserved. He'll be 19 in June and is much more involved in politics and social issues than I ever was at that age.

[woodsprite]

15. Get signatures, start a petition and I bet something can/will be done.

I'm intimately familiar with their policies and they walk a very tight line for student groups between being totally offensive and total freedom of speech. Tell your son and his girlfriend to gather as many as they can and be as vocal to the administration through the proper channels as they can. The new admins are very student and dollar oriented. It doesn't hurt if the Mom's and Dad's footing the bill kick up a fuss too. Don't forget the student paper "The Review" or the local News Journal, if you need to go that route. People are very outspoken in it at times.

Best of luck. I'm going to be a parent of a UDer next year.

[one_voice]

19. Good luck with UD next year..

Make sure to get your University of Delaware mom/dad shirt. I have two.

My son just got home from school, and told me he had an exchange with one of the people. Apparently a guy stuck a camera in his face and asked him why he signed the "no life doesn't begin at conception" sheet. He asked him how he thought those women going in for abortions felt...my son's answer "I would imagine very conflicted, contrary to your belief this isn't something a woman chooses easily" and then my son asked him "how do you think Dr. Tiller's wife and family feel?" The guy asked him what that had to do with anything, and my son said "your tactics encourage those kinds of deranged people".

He's passing the word to start a petition, not to stop pro life groups, but to stop those kinds of displays. One of the reasons he was upset was there were children on campus. Parents often bring children and have picnics, also today was high school tour day.

Needless to say I'm very proud of him.

[woodsprite]

39. Hubby and I just had lunch at Panera on Main St.

The activities on campus today were the talk of the place. The kids were so loud and animated that it was hard to hear when you ordered something.

I'm glad you sonr handled them so well. It throws them off their game when you're polite and respectful to them despite being in your face. It also confuses them when you arm yourself with facts and empathy, since those are two things they don't believe in.

[enlightenment]

17. Hey - I have a transgendered kid, so believe me, I know how

easy it is for us as parents to react first and think about it later!

Do encourage your son to do something positive (make sure he jumps through the appropriate hoops to get permission for an exhibit or petition drive or whatever . . . schools are remarkably anal about that sort of thing).

Good luck to him!

[one_voice]

20. Indeed...

Doesn't matter how old they get, we never stop being parents, and reacting as such.

[LuvNewcastle]

5. I'll bet there are many others

who are disgusted by this. They should get together and pay for a billboard of their own, that is, if the school allows it. If the school doesn't allow it, the students could take them to court.

[brendan120678]

6. UDel is a public/private hybrid, right?

So don't those groups have a First Amendment right to be parading their shit around campus?

I went to an all-public university for grad school, and public demonstrations were always allowed (of course, it was mostly Anti-Iraq War protests when I was there).

[onehandle]

7. I would round up all of the gay people on campus...

...have them surround the organizers and start making out.

Make them uncomfortable right back.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

8. "WTF gives these people the right to use these kinds of tactics?"

The First Amendment. Thank you for asking.

From the linked site: "I'm all for freedom of expression and an exchange of differing ideas, but this is just plain disturbing."

And?

[one_voice]

11. You're right...

I'm the first one to say "they have the right to say that." Free speech is probably the greatest right we have. I was just a little heated.

I'm better now, just needed to vent.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

16. "I'm better now, just needed to vent."

No problem. Nowhere in the Constitution is there any provision that you will like all the things you see. That's why we're not {fill in the blank}. Would you have it any other way?

As Nat Hentoff said, the cure for free speech is more free speech. That was just before he had a falling out with the ACLU because of his opposition to abortion.

[bridgit]

9. It would appear your umbrage has only just begun: University of Delaware Army ROTC

http://www.udel.edu/armyrotc

[Libertyfirst]

44. What is that suppose to mean? Delaware has a fine ROTC unit and is proud of it.

[bridgit]

45. It *means*, if you are able to think it that way, "Relax, Delaware...

"Everything is going to be just peachy"

[Flipper999]

12. Saw this stuff all the time back in college

Protesters with giant posters of aborted fetuses. *blech*

Common gross out tactic. I doubt it's very effective though. Their supporters will just point and say, "See? SEE?!?!" The rest of us will just they're they're a bunch of dicks with grotesque posters.

[WeDidIt]

13. See, this is the sort of shit I hate form the anti-abortion crowd.

I also think these tactics hurt their cause far more than help it.

They're like the Westboro Baptist Church assholes. All they want is attention.

[paulsby]

23. i think this is a very legitimate tactic

it shows the results of abortion

that's a good thing

it's no different than showing the results of smoking (which is gross. trust me) or capital punishment, or war, or sausage making

i can support abortion and look at an aborted first trimester fetus. is it gross? yes

does it deserve full protection of the law such that a woman's right to choose abortion is restricted?

no

[uppityperson]

36. However, they also use picts of 3rd trimester miscarriages.

The photos they user are not "aborted first trimester fetus" only, but pictures of later term fetuses who died not only by abortion.

[paulsby]

37. then if they are providing misinformation

you counter that with correct information

god knows people all over the political spectrum and on nearly every issue are prone to providing false, misleading etc. info in furtherance of their cause

[NeedleCast]

14. "WTF gives these people the right to use these kinds of tactics?"

First Amendment?

[d_r]

18. I agree about the first amendment

I have seen these people on campus here, Their signs are horrible. They wouldn't be able to be shown on TV, they wouldn't be able to be shown on magazine covers in newstands. I think the best approach is to fight freedom of speech with freedom of speech. Stand right next to them and pass out some clothes hangers, and remind people that there was abortion in this country before Roe v Wade, and that right now there is no difference in abortion rates between countries were it is legal and where it is illegal.

Also, I think the people there with these displays think they really are pictures from abortions, but I don't think they are. Think about it, you don't get to take the biological material from an abortion home and pose it for pictures. I think they are showing pictures of miscarriages, and I think that can be traumatic for people who have experienced miscarriage to have to walk past the things.

I thought about going and getting my preschool age children and walking them up there and asking the people why they thought they should show these pictures in a public place where kids are, but I couldn't do it to my kids of course. But that is the sort of thing that crosses my mind at first.

There was some trouble a few years ago in Florida with people throwing paint on their pictures, I guess I wouldn't do that either.

[paulsby]

21. bullshit!

what gives them the right?

it's called the 1st amendment

paying tuition isn't a fee to insulate your precious son, or anybody else, from speech they find offensive or disturbing

[one_voice]

24. Wow really....

my "precious son?" Yes, he is precious to me as is my daughter. But I'm thinking we don't mean it in the same way..now do we?

Second, I've already said I was wrong about saying "what gives them the right", if you'd bothered to read any futher you'd have seen that.

But then again, you wouldn't have been able to be all snarky...right?

[paulsby]

25. what i mean by "precious"

is sarcasm. he's 18 (i assume) and if he is attending a college, he is ostensibly "on his own" and should be able to be exposed to the marketplace of ideas and come to his own conclusions. it's an ugly world out there, and being confronted with ugly realities is part of life.

i didn't mean it in an insulting manner, and if it came off that way, my bad

i was NOT trying to be snarky. just trying to impress my point. if i was, my bad

[one_voice]

27. No worries..

Sorry if I came off a little strong..

Yes he's 18 soon to be 19. And he's seen quite a bit, being raised in a family that's multi-racial, gay family, etc. We're a very diverse bunch. He's seen ugly from every group. It did him good to see these things, he's definitely not been sheltered.

Truth be told, he handled it much better than I did. I posted about it up further, post #19.

I understand your point, and I wouldn't want to limit anyone's free speech, like I said earlier, I was just a little heated.

[paulsby]

29. no problem

i can imagine a parent of a sheltered kid making a post in another board about their kid being exposed to 'the gay' at college, etc.

that's the other side of the coin

and realistically speaking, i think most pro-choicers may not have been exposed to what an aborted fetus looks like. i think that's a bad thing

one should be able to support choice AND be exposed to the ugly side.

it's kind of like supporting war w/o having really SEEN the horrors of same.

[one_voice]

33. Hmmm..

That's an interesting analogy-war/abortion. I've never thought about it like that. I'm going to think about that.

What's funny is I watched "Unborn in America" not too long ago, and was showing parts to my husband, and son, so he's seen the images before. Just not up close, like that.

[paulsby]

35. i appreciate that

i've never seen "unborn in america" fwiw.

my exposure to fetuses at different stages of development was in college. i actually had a class where we had an (adult) cadaver that was dissected as part of the class and we were also exposed to fetuses at different stages of development

it is certainly EASIER to be pro-choice w/o ever having to be exposed to what an aborted fetus LOOKS like, in the same way that it is easier to be pro war w.o ever having seen the effects of cluster bombs, etc.

i'm all for informed opinions, regardless of which side one falls on the debate

[one_voice]

38. If you have Netflix

you can watch right on your computer. It was interesting, to say the least.

You're probably right that it's easier without seeing what the aborted fetus looks like. But couldn't the same be said about being pro-life? I mean, if you've never been in a situation that you've had to make that decision, it's easy to "judge."

What bugs me about many (not all)is they act like a woman makes this decision as easily as she decides what's for dinner. That simply isn't true. Sure, there's a small number that use it as a method of birth control, but for the most part this is probably the hardest decision a woman has to live with. And she does LIVE with it everyday of her life.

I also agree that you should know all sides of an issue.

[paulsby]

40. i don't have netflix

but i'll check it out

thanks

good discussion

and civil and all that.

[one_voice]

43. Yes it was a good discussion.

Thanks.

[coffeenap]

26. Some say there are some places where these posters were torn down

and made unusable. I have also heard of them being spray painted. I wonder if the people who did that were protected by free speech laws.

[one_voice]

30. I would think

that would fall under vandalism/destruction of property.

[paulsby]

41. you are kidding right

it is not part of free speech to do so.

in fact, there was a case at a university where a PROFESSOR took part (along with students) in vandalizing a pro-life display

iirc, she was disciplined (can't recall if she was fired)

it is not "free speech" to vandalize other people's expressions of free speech

i really hope you weren't asking this question seriously


this is what gangbanger do with tagging, btw

[Green_Lantern]

28. "WTF gives these people the right to use these kinds of tactics?"

The First Amendment.

Are you saying "pro-life" students can't have political speech on campus?

[one_voice]

34. No I'm not saying that..

Please see post # 11.

[KamaAina]

31. Fight fire with fire

put the horrific images of dead Iraqi babies right next to what we used to call "fetal pornography".

[GoneOffShore]

32. Another anti-women, forced pregnancy group shows up at my old school?

Crap heads.

[Initech]

42. The pro-lifers aren't exactly pro-life.