Iraq Veteran, 27, Kills Self on Front Steps of VA Hospital

[tekisui]

Source: The Columbus Dispatch

Iraq vet kills self outside hospital
Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:51 AM
By Lucas Sullivan and Margo Rutledge Kissell
DAYTON DAILY NEWS

DAYTON -- Jesse Charles Huff walked up to the VA Medical Center yesterday wearing Army fatigues and battling pain from his Iraq war wounds and a recent bout with depression.

The 27-year-old Dayton man had entered the center's emergency room about 1a.m. yesterday and requested some sort of treatment. But Huff did not get that treatment, police said, and about 5:45 a.m., he reappeared at the center's entrance, put a military-style rifle to his head and twice pulled the trigger.

Police would not specify what treatment Huff sought and why he did not receive it. Medical center spokeswoman Donna Simmons declined to answer questions about Huff's treatment, citing privacy laws. But police believe Huff killed himself to make a statement.

Scott Labensky, whose son lived with Huff, agreed. He said the veteran was injured by a ground blast while serving in Iraq and received ongoing treatment for a back injury and depression.

"He never got adequate care from the VA he was trying to get," Labensky said. "I believe he (killed himself) to bring attention to that fact."

more: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/04/17/iraq-vet-kills-self-outside-hospital.html?sid=101

[SocialistLez]

1. =[

My hearts go out to that family.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Oh god :^( That poor young man.

[Mari333]

3. damnit.goddamnit.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Aaagrh. :(((((

[classof56]

5. This is awful beyond words.

I have a relative whose grandson killed himself...in front of his dad. This was two years ago, after returning from his second tour in Iraq. Such a sad, sad thing for all of us. My right wing family members accept it as God's will and do not blame Bush/Cheney and their evil minions. I do not agree with them on either point. The sadness continues...

[The River]

6. Damn It

The VA is way better than it was but someone let this kid down.
Pending a full report I'll reserve judgment but this happens too often.
RIP brother Vet.

[DesertFlower]

7. very sad story. i have a friend whose son

served in iraq. he wasn't injured, but he suffers from nightmares.

[Maru Kitteh]

20. My father served in WWII and woke up screaming to his dying day.

Not every night, mind you - but they never stopped.

[AnArmyVeteran]

8. GOD DAMN that FUCKING BUSH & DIMWITTED CONSERVATIVE MONSTERS!

God damn all of those god damned fucking conservatives who lusted for war and started this war based entirely on lies. This poor young man will not be counted among Bush's casualties, but he was murdered by Bush and conservatives just the same.

Bush, Cheney and conservatives are god damned cowardly murderers. FUCK THEM ALL!

[Ecumenist]

16. Amen, ArmyVeteran...AMEN

BTW, a belated welcome to DU..RIGHT GALD to MEETCHA!!!
:hi:

[wroberts189]

24. And their stupid meaningless magnetic yellow "support the troops" ribbons...

Sold by a pub who got rich off of them. Don't see any today though...

It was never about "supporting the troops" .. it was about supporting a war of aggression.

Bastards


US Army 84-88 ..luckily I got out in time to avoid his fate.

[bertman]

38. I still have my yellow "support our troops" ribbon on the back of my car. That's because

I do support them and think we all should. It is not the individual service member's fault when they perform the mission they are ordered to perform.

One of my ideas of supporting them is to use them ONLY when it is necessary and legal to do so. That means NOT used to secure Exxon profits or Haliburton's stock price.



The VA is a good organization in many ways, but it makes mistakes just like every other organization in the world, but this kind of thing is happening far too often. This is tragic.

[eagertolearn]

66. Most VA veterans I run into as a nurse like their benefits through the VA.

Obviously there nurses and doctors who saw him in the ER did not do their job. The VA should make sure their employees are educated to whatch for signs or depression and suicidal ideation. Someone did not do their job that night and a life was lost becasue of that. I just watched "Brothers" last night and every young person thinking about going into the military should watch movies like that to see the reality of war!

[wroberts189]

72. My father a ww2 vet who had cancer of the throat...

..was in one once and my sister who is a full registered nurse was so disturbed by what she saw she moved him to
a different private hospital.

IMHO Some VA medical centers are good ..others bad.. they all suffer from a lack of funding case in point...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2832232

[wroberts189]

71. For me those ribbons were rw code for "supporting the war" ...

If you did not support the war you were against the troops.

So they came out with I think were blue ones ... "support the troops ...bring them home now"

Those I liked.

[bertman]

82. I understand and agree to a point, wroberts189. Mostly, in our area, it was the right-wingers

who were flying those ribbons, but there were also a lot of liberal types with kids or family in the service who put them on their vehicles.

I'm a Viet Nam vet who strongly believes that our military has a vital role to play but that it should be defensive in nature. Truly defensive.

I put my yellow ribbon on the back of my pickup right beside my "Combat Veteran for Kerry" sticker. I have had other vehicles honk and give me a big thumbs up when they passed me and I've had some middle-finger salutes, but at least the message gets across.

When Obama was running against McCain I placed the yellow ribbon beside my "Veteran for Obama" sticker on the back of my Tahoe. Had a Georgia redneck asshole scream at me on the way back from New Orleans, but I had a lot more people give me the big smile and wave.

Around here you see lots of flags on the back of cars with Obama for President stickers. I think that helps to neutralize the right-wing vitriol a bit and show that the left is just as patriotic as the right.

[VOX]

31. Agreed, AAV. I'm deeply saddened, but not surprised by this tragedy...

The right wing is all for showing off their Chinese-manufactured car flags and starting needless wars, but historically, they're nowhere to be seen or heard from when inevitably, the damaged souls return home.

And thank you for your service, AAV -- it's much appreciated.

[Ticonderoga]

36. Love the moonwalking cat. n/t

[Golden Raisin]

49. They're all at the Country Club

swilling martinis, laughing at the serfs, sitting on their stacks of ill-gotten money and probably plotting how to get Jeb elected.

[AnArmyVeteran]

68. Did you see the jump in oil stock during Bush's war?

Corrupt oil companies jacked up their prices and made a combined hundreds of billions in PROFIT in the last year and a half and we the people had our money stolen by them. The corrupt Tesoro oil went from $2 a share to $140 a share from the time Cheney declared war on Iraq to four years later. Tesoro made a staggering $25 profit off of every barrel of oil they refined. That profit was the money stolen from YOUR pockets.

BTW, my brother works for Tesoro and he made a fortune off of the blood of our solders. Of course, he is a right wing conservative and actually thinks he earned his blood money. He was pro war because he got rich on the dead bodies of Iraqis and our soldiers.

[Phentex]

67. my first reaction, too...sigh...

It sucks. I want to add damn all those idiots who whined, "But we have to support the President!"

They have blood on their hands too.

[Rex]

9. Or maybe he just wanted to end his pain.

Rest In Peace. :(

[msedano]

10. Bring the troops home immediately.

Bush-Obama's wars make a mockery of phrases like "support the troops" and "duty, honor, country".

[MadMaddie]

15. Yes we should bring them home however; that does not

fix the issue this young man experienced. Why didn't he get help? Why was he suffering unimaginable pain?

We should have no homeless veterans
We should have no soldiers turned away for treatment from the VA or any hospital in this country.

This is bullshit and needs to be fixed immediately.

[msedano]

30. Waxman, other CA Democratic electeds giving away Veteran land

Bringing the men and women home is the first step in getting them all well from whatever wounds and trauma they've experienced. In the meantime, you can write your local representative and Senators asking them to rescind the gift of Veteran land to a private homeowners group in Brentwood. Rather than fight to assure the injured Veteran gets all they're entitled to, like this land in West LA deeded in perpetuity to the care of wounded military, Henry Waxman led the effort to let neighborhood influence peddlers take the land at no cost and convert it into a park whose gates are locked against intrusion by Vets. Boxer and Feinstein stand back and pretend they don't know what's happening to Veteran land.

Inform yourself:

http://veteranslandgrab.blogspot.com/

Then write Obama, Shinseki, your local electeds. Rescind the land grab.

mvs

[Mojeoux]

32. I tried to share this on FB with my brother who's a vet in LA, but

the link kept coming up with a "security check" before it would let me post?????

[dotymed]

60. If they (as they should) bring the troops home

imagine the unemployment numbers. "They" don't want that...How about some FDR "New Deal" jobs and maybe even that 2nd bill of rights he proposed? Green jobs that would benefit America and the world, that pay a living wage with benefits. The "teahadist's" would go even more insane, but the American people would guarantee Obama a second term. If Americans only knew how much better citizens of other "civilized nations" have it...

[Foo Fighter]

42. Exactly.

It was Bush's war but Obama now owns it. The time to bring the troops home has long passed. No excuses.

[dotymed]

57. These fuckers

have realized how much more power they have as a "wartime president." With all of that power it seems unemployment wouldn't be so high........

[TexasObserver]

11. It breaks my heart.

They never count the suicides after the war in the US war dead totals.

And it's a big number.

[Withywindle]

23. The number of vet suicides after Vietnam was greater than the number killed in the war.

As if war itself, in the moment, isn't horrible enough, the aftermath....for everyone....:cry:

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. awwwww jeez.....

That hurts....

[Joanne98]

13. They probably wouldn't give him any pain meds. It's a trend that's going on.

We need a law that says if people are in pain and hospitals or doctors deny them they can be sued.

Fighting the 'war on drugs' by making people suffer is EVIL!

[LiberalLoner]

19. Yup, that's my guess too. I hate this world so freaking much sometimes. n/t

[dotymed]

61. It's not the "world"

it is America. In many countries, effective narcotic pain meds are sold OTC. If not, the Dr.'s don't have to be afraid to prescribe them.

[blueamy66]

73. I split my lip/chin open last Monday playing basketball.

I got 8 or 10 stitches, along with various cuts, bruises and gashes.

The urgent care doc wouln't give me any pain meds, cause I admitted to having a few beers.

I guess he thought I'd OD on Vics.

It's getting outright freaking ridiculous.

This vet should have gotten the meds/help that he needed.

We failed him.

[wroberts189]

25. +1

[dotymed]

59. It is insane

if a Dr. prescribes pain meds, he is targeted. I have many documented progressive, painful conditions. I do not mind the drug screens to make sure that you are not abusing or selling your meds. I was recently denied my SS disability. The SS (fitting moniker), "Dr.", whose only patients are SS evaluations (he doesn't even have a receptionist or speak coherent English) wrote on my denial, that I had a "narcotics dependency." My body is more "dependent" on the heart meds. If I go for a couple of days without my heart meds., I am so nervous I can not function. If I go without (and I do because I do not want my pain meds increased) my "narcotics", I have slight flu-like symptoms and of course, severe pain. I talked to my mother in TN., she said that they were really "cracking down" on pain meds in her county. She is 75 with 24 metal pins holding her leg together. My brother lives with her. He has been in desperate need of surgery on his shoulder after a 2 story fall. He has no insurance. No one will repair his shoulder. The Dr. at the "free clinic" said "you need surgery." My Mom occasionally gives my brother some of her pain meds because the "free clinic" will not prescribe narcotics. They are both heart patients too. She gets so worried that she will get arrested for trying to help my brother. He hasn't been able to lift his right arm for 3 years! America?

[annabanana]

14. How unutterably sad.

What a heartbreaking thing this is, For his family, his friends, and us.

We must do better for those who give everyting up for us.

[underpants]

17. Somewhere....

Dick Cheney doesn't care

[flvegan]

18. Pulled the trigger twice?

What a sad, tragic story.

[malaise]

21. This is too sad

:cry: :cry:

[boppers]

50. I caught that as well.

Pull a trigger once, and it's a moment, however fleeting.

Pull it twice, and it's something different, beyond the pain of the first moment.

[Rage Inc.]

22. Another transfer of wealth...

.....to the Great Middle Eastern "Democracy."

:puke:

[femrap]

26. K and R

We're going to see more of this.

All the kids who want to enlist should read about this soldier's treatment.

[susanr516]

27. There are no words

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[Mojeoux]

28. oh God, 27 years old

From my heart to his family and friends, I am so sorry that this bottom line VA health care showed NO care.

When will the US military get off of it's ass about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder??

[Foo Fighter]

40. Actually, the VA has stepped up funding for PTSD studies

and with some rather stunning results.

For all the attention focused on posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) in recent years, doctors have never had a clear-cut way to be certain a patient has it. But Minnesota scientists now believe they have found a long-sought PTSD fingerprint that confirms the disorder by measuring electromagnetic fields in the brain. The finding, detailed in the latest issue of the Journal of Neural Engineering, could help the 300,000 cases of PTSD that are anticipated among the 2 million U.S. troops who have gone to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

"This shows that PTSD is a brain disease," says Dr. Apostolos Georgopoulos, who led the research along with Brian Engdahl and a team from the Brain Sciences Center at the Minneapolis VA Medical Center and University of Minnesota. "There have been questions that this is a made-up disorder and isn't a true brain disease, but it is." Just as importantly, he says, the magnetic-imaging biomarker shows changes over time in a brain's electrical activity, allowing mental-health workers to chart the effectiveness of various therapies. "It will be a tremendous tool in monitoring treatment," he says, "because these abnormal communication patterns will be normalized as the treatment works."

Up until now, more conventional diagnostic tools, including computed tomography, magnetic-resonance imaging and X-rays have not been able to detect evidence of PTSD because their snapshots of brain activity occur too slowly. The new diagnostic procedure uses magnetoencephalography (MEG), a way of monitoring the flow of electrical signals along the brain's neural pathways from cell to cell. By using a helmet with 248 noninvasive sensors arrayed around the head, scientists can map patterns of electrical activity inside the skull and detect abnormalities. The Minnesota researchers used MEG to assess 74 U.S. veterans believed to be suffering from PTSD, along with 250 subjects not thought to be suffering from the condition. Distinctive brain patterns indicating PTSD were found in 72 — or 97.3% — of the 74 people diagnosed with PTSD through the traditional interview process; false positives turned up in 31 of the 250 subjects (12.4%) without PTSD. (All the subjects were given "a simple fixation task ... to engage the brain in a stable condition.")

More at http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1956315,00.html

For the first time, there is an actual objective measurement that a person is suffering from PTSD. Prior to this, they only had subjective data which can be hit or miss. Now that they have a tangible way of diagnosing PTSD, they need to fast-track it in order to diagnose the patients and get them the treatment they need.

[The Wizard]

51. Combat veterans are caught between

the primal of kill or be killed and the abstract of hunting for people who are hunting for you.
We're brought up with the concept of "Thou shall not kill," and combat turns the world upside down. Everything that was taught to be bad is good. We're rewarded for killing. At a very young age we have the power of life and death over people we don't know and people who don't know us.
Upon returning to civilization we need readjustment counseling as soon as possible, and in some cases that counseling has to be intense and in a secure confined supervised environment. All of this costs money, and we're giving our resources over to crooked defense contractors and war profiteers (Bush/Cheney cartel).
Bringing the troops home and spending our resources to make them whole again would be the sensible and moral thing to do.

[Foo Fighter]

86. Fully agree.

And while the troops definitely need to be made whole again, the sensible and moral thing to do would be to not send them over to a bogus war in the first place. You know, that whole "ounce of prevention" thing.

The war profiteers need to be cut off from the public trough. I'd also like to see them sent to prison with no possibility of parole.

[InkAddict]

64. So, how does one trust a psychologist who specializes in PTSD

while collaborating with those who torture other humans - DISGUSTING.

This death - probably needless and TRAGIC...

War is truly HELL on Earth.

[maryf]

29. Suicide stats from Veterans for Peace

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Talking_points_military_suicides.vp.html

[unkachuck]

33. another....

....sorrowful sacrifice of human life at the alter of Corporate War....

[pasto76]

34. Suicides are off the charts

they have risen for the past 5 years especially. the army is still not completely compassionate towards soldiers expressing mental health issues. While there have been some good improvements, I submit to you all that even a single additional suicide means that it is not enough.
Imagine that the family of this soldier has been thinking that he got "through the war" and that he was ostensibly "safe" now that he was at home. And then this mutherfucker of a war reaches out from the abyss and grabs another troop.

thats what we all thought when SGT Villers killed himself 14 months after we got home. Dont ever forget that War is not just shooting back and forth. Its a savage and insidious beast that hides in the very fabric of the universe and kills in many ways.

Rest in Peace brother.

SGT PASTO

[Ken Burch]

35. This young man's blood is on the hands of everyone who backed this war.

Damn all the hawks. Damn all the armchair militarists. Damn the whole "These Colors Don't Run" crowd. This young man suffered and died for the cheap thrills of those who didn't fight.

It's time to bring them all down!

[galileoreloaded]

41. What, half of DU and the Dems too????

Nah, what we got here is nothing at all man, just keep your head up and the checks flowing.

[Ken Burch]

45. Keep the checks flowing to WHOM?

And I WOULD include those Dems who backed these wars, and those DU'ers as well. I've never been one of the "it's ok when OUR side does it" type.

[galileoreloaded]

84. Hey cat, we are on the same page. And the checks, well, they flow UP. The giant wheel of favors. nt

[Ken Burch]

85. Glad to hear we're on the same page.

"the giant wheel of favors".

Is that what "Wheel In The Sky" by Journey is actually about?

[tango-tee]

37. So, so sad. I have no words.

My heart goes out to him and his family and friends.

And then there is the question: How and why could this have happened?

[Corey_Baker08]

39. This is From My Local News. Additionally A Back Pack He Carried Was Detonated by the Bomb Squad Also

I live very close to Dayton and attend college in Dayton, Ohio. This is a very sad story.

Also, there was a very large backpack he had laying beside him after he shot himself and the bomb squad came in and detonated it. It turned out to be nothing explosive but when the blast hit you could see papers go flying in shreds everywhere and I immediately wondered if they may have just blown up any shred of explanation as to why he went to such drastic measures to take his own life, perhaps there was a suicide note in the bag, its now in shreds, I believe he may have had a very important cause that in his mind was worth drawing attention to, unfortunately I think the bomb squad may have effectively eliminated any chance of finding an explanation for his actions.

[laughingliberal]

43. ...

:cry:

[Solly Mack]

44. ...

k/r

[windbreeze]

46. There will never be an excuse good enough for this tragedy...

whenever our troops present themselves for treatment, the least they should receive is an exam. on the spot..this is sad beyond words...we send them to fight, kill, be wounded or die, and still we can't treat them right if they come back and need help.. This is nothing less than shameful...I can only say, I hope he has found peace...and my profound sympathies go to his family and loved ones...wb

[Mad_Dem_X]

54. +1

[grahamhgreen]

47. Can we please GET THE F*CK OUT OF IRAQISTAN!

[Stumbler]

48. Ditto

Never should have been there & should not be there now. Bring our boys and girls home now!

[Christa]

52. K & R

RIP, young man, RIP.

[Mad_Dem_X]

53. Jesus.

No words...:cry:

I hope he's at peace now.

[KG]

55. hmm. the silence of the Big Fans is deafening.

[tekisui]

62. I noticed, too.

[awoke_in_2003]

78. I am sure...

that someone from a state next to NY will be along shortly to set us straight.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robb]

87. Ah, yes, that old straw man.

There are no Big Fans of the Iraq war here. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7955073">I have proof.

[Eyerish]

56. K&R

Damn, this breaks my heart...RIP Jesse

[HillWilliam]

58. .

:cry:

THIS is how we "support the troops"?

May the hottest flames of hell (if there is such a place) eternally roast the entire Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Mellon, Scaife, and Fox network clans. And take the 101st Chairborne Cheeto Freep Division with you.

[icee]

63. Iraq was the US's Parthia. This is all part of it.

[fascisthunter]

65. my condolences to his friends and family...

...he must have been experiencing hell to do such a thing.

[retired af major]

69. I completely understand what this young man did ...

I'm surprised there aren't more. I have gotten terrible care from the VA and understand how this man got shoved to the limit.

I served for 24 years, about 1/2 of that in the reserve. Unless you can prove your conditions are service connected, (which can take years) the VA will bill you for medicine and your insurance company for the appointments and blood work they order. (wtf?) The offices that process service connection are 1,000,000 of cases behind and not moving forward.

In my bad experience the VA has denied diagnostic imaging, treatments, and medicines IMHO because they didn't want to help me prove my claims. Fortunatly I had civilian insurance, but ended up going bankrupt and nearly losing my home paying for treatments and diagnostic the VA refused to help with. The primary care doctors at the VA seemed to go out of their way to make me out to be a bad person. With multiple excruciatingly painful conditions, the VA insisted on making my wife take a day off from work and drive me 120 miles for care that I could get and the VA could pay that is only 3 miles from my home.

The medicine they prescribe, (I don't know how to describe it) are second tier. We can't prescribe this med, but you can get this one. Or "we don't have that on our formulary at all".

I tried talking my mental health issues with their counselors and got all the bad things you hear about in the press. Long waits between visits, people who are really too busy to give a damn, sloppy paperwork and outright dismissal my concerns that had been raging inside me.

The VA office that process claims has lost my files on several occasions, they keep changing the claim dates to make their stats look good and to whittle down my settlement, and they mislabel or gloss over the evidence provided. If you dare complain to an elected representative, your file going to be stuck in 'development' and you'll really be f*cked over. This office seems to look down their noses at veterans painting us as gold diggers when all we're trying to do is provide for our families and our future.

The providers don't have to send a vets records to the VA and if the vet gets the records at his own expense and sends them to the VA, chances are they will lose the paperwork and ask for it again.

In the military I was trusted with millions/billions of dollars, top secrets, and the lives America's sons and daughters. All this is meaningless to the VA. I am human trash.

Vets deserve better. Taxpayers aren't getting their money's worth. Give all vets medicare and let them see the doctors they feel they need to see. I earned a reserve retirement, but I don't see any pension or medicial benifits until age 60. I can't even get sh*tty Tricare medical.

Rest In Peace Brother.

[judesedit]

70. Don't our veterans realize that the democrats are the ONLY ones that are going to help them?

That is my question. Things have gotten better, but there is still much to be done to get prompt, efficient care for our veterans. Even so, the Democrats are the best choice for getting it done. Republicans would make his family pay to clean the blood from the steps and that would be the end of the issue. They'd try to shut up everybody and anybody who tried to tell the American people about it. You saw the condition of Walter Reed Hospital under the Bush "administration" and how they did nothing to address it. Pathetic bunch of crooks.

[feslen]

74. too bad this doesn't wake up those rich bastards in congress...

who send people to war for no reason, except to better their own pockets. When are we actually going to take care of the veterans?...oh yea...probably never.

[arcadian]

75. That is a pretty powerful protest.

Not many willing to die for what they believe in.

[Puppyjive]

76. VA needs to rethink

I'm a veteran going to school to complete my degree in sociology. I know the VA has a huge shortage of social workers, but they will not even look at you unless you have a master's degree. Just talking with a vet doesn't require a master's degree and it could save someone's life. My VA clinic is full of employees who are not vets and they can't relate to vets.

[awoke_in_2003]

77. to paraphase...

"A country that does not know how to treat its veterans has no business making more"

[Swamp Rat]

80. k&r

[AnArmyVeteran]

81. I think an "I Support the Troop" magnet is real patriotism, my service in the army isn't...

I think an "I Support the Troop" magnet is real patriotism, my service in the army isn't...

Well, at least that is what a lot of conservatives seem to believe. They easily fall victim to trivial signs of patriotism, the flag waving, saying we're number one, and unable to realize the consequences of sending our soldiers to war. Hey conservatives, people die in wars. You supported your president Bush and his lust for preemptive war against a country which did not threaten us and could not attack us.

Wake up conservatives. Iraq had no navy. They had no real air force. They had no marines. And their missile system was made up of short range missiles that could fly a maximum of 500 miles, and with a pathetic accuracy rate. How were Iraqis going to attack us? Were they going to swim across the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean while holding their guns and supplies? I know you were told Iraq could attack us 'within 45 minutes' ... 'in the form of a mushroom cloud', but how? Why didn't you question your leaders as real patriots did?

Your idea of patriotism is to wave flags, flags probably made by slaves in communist China, and putting "I support the troop" magnets on your cars. Other than that you put no thought of the ramifications of going to war. You didn't even care that Bush sent our soldiers to war without even giving them the protections they needed to say alive. Why was it so imperative we invade Iraq so quickly?

It didn't matter to you that our soldiers had limited bullet proof vests and inadequate armor in their vehicles. You didn't care that our soldiers had to improvise by putting sandbags on the bottoms of their death-trap HumVees to help prevent being blown up. Not one tea bagger protested. Not one conservative protested. And not one right wingers protested the war because of its cost. You just waved your flags and looked admiringly at your "I support the troops" magnet on your cars.

I am constantly offended when I see conservative after conservative praising our troops and talking about patriotism, freedom and liberty, while knowing nothing of the sacrifices of those who served. You conservatives certainly didn't care about our returning soldiers or defects in their medical care or the mental and emotional scars they are enduring. You didn't care about their high suicide rate. You didn't care about how their Iraq service impacted their families or their children.

I consider each conservative who blindly supported Bush's war to be equally guilty of the killing of almost 5,000 of our soldiers and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis. Without your ignorance and gullibility all of those people would still be alive. Their families would still have their sons and daughters, sisters and brothers, husbands and wives, and mothers and fathers. But you didn't care. You just chanted your party's line while being co-conspirators in Bush's preemptive war.

Your thoughts are almost identical from the bottom to the top of your conservative ranks. War is strength, diplomacy is weak. Everything either black or white. All you seem to understand are force and threats, while easily being manipulated by fear and hatred. And you seem to worship the marketers of hate on right wing radio and Fox News, never stopping to wonder how so many people who have never served their country, are so eager to send others to die in wars. Why do you believe these people?

Honorable, honest people admit their mistakes. They apologize. But you will never apologize for your war. You will continue to defend all the reasons for going to war, and torture,even though by now even the most dense amongst you should have realized you were duped by sociopathic leaders who used you to go to war.

Can't you at least say you are sorry?


(I'm sorry for the diatribe. I just had to get that off my chest.)

[flyarm]

83. as i remember it correctly as I posted it many times after the war began, the drones found in Iraq

that were supposedly part of the WMD were partially cardboard and were held together with duct tape...and were partially burried under sand.

And thank you for your service to this country..AnArmyVeteran..

My husband is also an Army vet.

Our soldiers when they first entered Iraq were fed food with dirt and blood in it..served to them by KBR..as documented by Veterans for Common Sense ..sorry but the article no longer exists.

and it isn't just conervatives..many democrats now, today are making excuses for these wars..

Why are we still in these wars???????

Why???????

And why has the war in Afghan been accelerated? why????????

a little ride down memory lane may be nessessary for some here at DU..this is from the archives..


Why did Bush airlift Al Qaeda into Pakistan after we invaded Afghanistan?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

This is yet another story that disappeared under the radar and serves as a reminder to just how much Bush is intent on going after our true enemy. It's also important to remember this story now that we see the rightwing lambaste the Spaniards for giving in to the terrorists.

JANE WALLACE: Let's talk about Konduz. During the war with Afghanistan--

SY HERSH: Great story.

JANE WALLACE: -- you reported that during a key battle our side in that battle had the enemy surrounded. There were a reported perhaps 8,000 enemy forces in there.

SY HERSH: Maybe even more. But certainly minimum that many.

JANE WALLACE: It's your story, take it.

SY HERSH: Okay, the cream of the crop of Al Qaeda caught in a town called Konduz which is near ... it's one little village and it's a couple hundred kilometers, 150 miles from the border of Pakistan. And I learned this story frankly-- through very, very clandestine operatives we have in the Delta Force and other very...

We were operating very heavily with a small number of men, three, 400 really in the first days of the war. And suddenly one night when they had everybody cornered in Konduz-- the special forces people were told there was a corridor that they could not fly in. There was a corridor sealed off to-- the United States military sealed off a corridor. And it was nobody could shoot anybody in this little lane that went from Konduz into Pakistan. And that's how I learned about it. I learned about it from a military guy who wanted to fly helicopters and kill people and couldn't do it that day.

JANE WALLACE: So, we had the enemy surrounded, the special forces guys are helping surround this enemy.

SY HERSH: They're whacking everybody they can whack that looks like a bad guy.

JANE WALLACE: And suddenly they're told to back off--

SY HERSH: From a certain area--

JANE WALLACE: -- and let planes fly out to Pakistan.

SY HERSH: There was about a three or four nights in which I can tell you maybe six, eight, 10, maybe 12 more-- or more heavily weighted-- Pakistani military planes flew out with an estimated-- no less than 2,500 maybe 3,000, maybe mmore. I've heard as many as four or 5,000. They were not only-- Al Qaeda but they were also-- you see the Pakistani ISI was-- the military advised us to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. There were dozens of senior Pakistani military officers including two generals who flew out.

And I also learned after I wrote this story that maybe even some of Bin Laden's immediate family were flown out on the those evacuations. We allowed them to evacuate. We had an evacuation.

JANE WALLACE: How high up was that evacuation authorized?

SY HERSH: I am here to tell you it was authorized — Donald Rumsfeld who — we'll talk about what he said later — it had to be authorized at the White House. But certainly at the Secretary of Defense level.

JANE WALLACE: The Department of Defense said to us that they were not involved and that they don't have any knowledge of that operation.

SY HERSH: That's what Rumsfeld said when they asked him but it. And he said, "Gee, really?" He said, "News to me." Which is not a denial, it's sort of interesting. You know,

JANE WALLACE: What did we do that? Why we would put our special forces guys on the ground, surround the enemy, and then-- fly him out?

SY HERSH: With al Qaeda.

JANE WALLACE: With al Qaeda. Why would we do that, assuming your story is true?

SY HERSH: We did it because the ISI asked us to do so.

JANE WALLACE: Pakistani intelligence.

SY HERSH: Absolutely.

JANE WALLACE: Yeah.

SY HERSH: Yeah. That's why. You asked why. Because we believe Musharraf was under pressure to protect the military men of — the intelligence people from the military, ISI, that were in the field. The Pakistanis were training the Taliban, and were training al Qaeda.

When the war began, even though this is-- again, you know, this is complicated. Musharraf asked, as a favor, to protect his position. If we suddenly seized, in in the field, a few dozen military soldiers, including generals, and put them in jail, and punished them, he would be under tremendous pressure from the fundamentalists at home.

So, to protect him, we perceive that it's important to protect him, he asked us-- this is why when I tell you it comes at the level of Don Rumsfeld, it has to. I mean, it does. He asked-- he said, "You've got to protect me. You've got to get my people out."

The initial plan was to take out the Pakistani military. What happened is that they took out al Qaeda with them. And we had no way of stopping it. We lost control. Once there planes began to go, the Pakistanis began-- thousands of al Qaeda got out. And so-- we weren't able to stop it and screen it. The intent wasn't to let al Qaeda out. It was to protect the Pakistani military.

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_hersh.html


Again I will ask why are we still there and why has Obama increased our troops in Afghanistan????????
The propaganda rolled out for the EU was to keep the women and children safe from the Taliban..but we all know that is hog wash..and total bullshit!