My friend's kid is being gay-bashed.

[Smarmie Doofus]

He's in the third grade. ( That's Grade 3).

After-school tears are involved. Questions from kid. Parental consternation. Uncertainty about what, if anything, to do .

Not that it should make a difference, BUT.... he's probably NOT gay. He's smart; smallish; kinda... I don't know... "spontaneous". Effusive.

Part of the bashing involves other kids shoving him so that he crashes into a third party; then they yell "homo".

( Friend tells me all this right after I get off the treadmill at the gym where I'm watching a video-follies type show on Comedy Central wherein the host is making "That's so gay" comments ... without any apparent irony.... so numerous that I found myself semi-consciously trying to count them.)

OK; "You can't blame this one on the media, Ellen." Well... yes and no, I'm thinking.

So: what to do. Insights? Ideas?

That's *THIRD* fucking grade.

[Rhythm]

1. The kid's parents need to be in conversation with the teachers and admins

And this crap should be put a stop to immediately.

Doesn't matter if the kid will/won't turn out to be gay... bullying is bullying, and it needs to be stopped, because no child deserves to be treated like that by anyone.

[Sabriel]

18. Not conversation, writing!

Put all of the information and concerns in writing and keep a copy. If nothing happens, then send another and CC it to the superintendent.

This lays a paper trail the parents might need later if the school does nothing to stop it. A civil suit is a very real possibility in cases like this, and insurance companies often refuse to pay, if the school had a non-bullying clause in place.

It's bullying like this that leads to dropping out and/or suicide later, so IT MUST BE STOPPED.

[Rhythm]

23. Agreed with Sabriel... Do everything in writing... and document EVERYTHING

The parents and the kid should also be keeping track of all specific incidences of physical assault--as well as who was involved each time (as much as it's possible to remember)--because if this continues, it could become a matter for juvenile authorities as well as just school administrative folks.

[Smarmie Doofus]

26. I think the parents here are operating from the following premise:

1. Do Not DO Anything the Might Make it WORSE for Our Child.


Which is what probably where any parent would begin.

So they are... for the moment ... stuck; as it is hard to predict how deftly and discretely the school admins involved would be able to deal the the problem. And a bit of a leap to assume that they ( admins) are even INTERESTED in sparing the kid further embarrassment and marginalization.

Quite a dilemma. They may in fact have to go the legalistic route... and on one level I wish they would.... but I can't blame them for considering their options before they act.

[NotThisTime]

30. This is third freaking grade, talk to the administration and teachers and then start talking to

the Superintendent, if these kids can't be brought into line at the age of freaking 8 they will be in jail by the time they are freaking 16....

Doing nothing IS NOT AN OPTION.

[FedUpWithIt All]

37. I agree completely. n/t

[CoffeeCat]

70. This is the wrong attitude...

I wrote a pretty lengthy post below, but I must say that these
parents are being wishy washy and thinking about this in the
wrong way.

They MUST advocate for their child. They must not cower and
be afraid of these bullies. Their child deserves to be free
of abuse from school and to feel safe in school. He does not.

The parents must DEMAND that this behavior is stopped.

They should not be "worried" about how the school will handle it. These parents
should TELL the school that this is to be stopped now. The school and the
administrators should never tolerate this bullying. I'm betting the school
handbook addresses bullying. They should look it up in their school handbook--every
school has one. Also check with the anti-bullying laws in their state.

Believe me--I was not forceful when this happened to my child. I regret it. I
was a new mom and my first child was in kindergarten. I didn't want to cause
problems and I was concerned about butting heads with the principal. Boy, have I
learned. You don't sheepishly tell your story and ask that something be done. You
demand that this abuse be stopped.

Don't ask me why--but principals and administrators will walk all over you, unless
you stand up for yourself and your child. People need to stop hemming and hawing
and worrying about what people will think of them--and protect their children.

[alcibiades_mystery]

81. It's not a dilemma - this "worse for the child" shite has done nothing but license rampant bullying

Intervene early and often.

It's worse for the child to be bullied incessantly, period. Nothing the parents could do would make things "worse for the child." People need to get rid of this silly sentiment.

[mzteris]

44. +1 to support this approach.

Documentation is sooooooooooo important anymore.

[miscsoc]

19. they should go round to the parents and have a discussion

most parents don't do that because it's easier to let your kid live hell than go around and have an uncomfortable conversation or confrontation

[Ian David]

2. A whole sheet of thumbtacks sticking up, taped to his arm under his shirt...

... will prevent people from shoving into him on purpose.

[Smarmie Doofus]

7. Yeah. I'm guessing it's more than just the shoving, though.

Much as I like that image.

Besides... won't they just find some other way to harass him?

[Kahuna]

3. What ever happened to the new, "no tolerance" when it comes to bullying?

The parents need to raise holy hell...AND NOW!

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. School admins make up stuff like that for general consumption.

Satisfies the politicians and lulls the general public for a while.

Meanwhile there is no real change.

>>>>The parents need to raise holy hell...AND NOW!>>>>

Truly. But how to do so without getting junior into even HOTTER water with peers?

[Ken Burch]

11. If the bullies' parents are powerful or rich enough, the school will be scared to step in.

n/t.

[Ken Burch]

13. "no tolerance" always ends up being about trivial shit

like kids bringing cough drops to school or something like that. It's about social control, not reducing violence.

[immoderate]

77. Cough drops! LOL! You are SO right.

When I taught it was baseball caps. I really didn't care. But then the principal cracked down on me for not cracking down on the kids. :(

--imm

[Ken Burch]

78. Zero tolerance policies are the kind of idea that weak, insecure "authority" figures always like

The end up creating the illusion of control by pointlessly regimenting the kids and the teachers, without actually dealing with any of the problems they were, in theory, intended to create.

You'd think administrators would realize that drug pushers and bullies will always match the dress code, get their hair cut to the approved length, wear their baseball caps the right way, and go on doing what they have been doing anyway.

[AngryOldDem]

84. In most cases, it doesn't exist.

Schools like to make you THINK it does, as long as you don't ask them to actually enforce their "zero-tolerance" policy.

That's why I'm hoping that serious change comes out of the bullying tragedy in Massachusetts.

[Dr Morbius]

5. Do you have a friend who's a lawyer?

Take that friend and go to the school. I bet they listen.

[dsc]

6. as one who has been there

the parents need to put their foot down now. If parents make enough noise and show themselves to be determined to continue to make enough noise, schools nearly always listen. If they don't then either bring in a lawyer or change schools.

[eShirl]

8. Do they have karate lessons at that gym?

[Smarmie Doofus]

9. Mmm.... that's how we crossed paths.

But should kids *have* to have black belts to avoid this kind of experience?

Can't the schools do something? I mean *proactively*? And what about the kids who don't like karate, can't afford the lessons or who take karate and still can't wreak havoc on their antagonists?

[Ken Burch]

12. Also, the problem with the "punch out the bully" theory is that

too often, it reduces the bullied kid to the bully's level. Which is probably in part what the bully(and his "life is a battle" parents)wanted. And it doesn't break the cycle.

[eShirl]

14. if I meant a "punch out the bully" strategy I would have suggested boxing.

:eyes:

[Ken Burch]

16. No offense to you or to martial arts training intended

I realized you were discussing martial arts, but in many cases the response of parents and friends of the bullied child is to encourage said child to try to face the bully down physically, and often times not using the discipline, focus and restraint employed in Kung Fu, Aikido, or other schools.

(although even with martial arts, there is the risk that the bully was trained at the evil martial arts school where the instructor keeps screaming "sweep the leg!"):sarcasm:

[mzteris]

29. sometimes that "training" is just a matter of confidence

building. A certain stance or state of mind at least.

My older son who briefly attempted to go back to school for a semester in 8th grade was being bullied, 'cause you know, since he's a ballet dancer - he was OBVIOUSLY GAY! :banghead: He's also VERY smart, sensitive, polite, nice to "those kids" (you know, the ones NO ONE wanted to be around for whatever reason).

The verbal "teasing" became verbal taunts/assaults, to "accidently" running into or tripping, even pushing him down the stairs... until the day my son said quite plainly and clearly and very very calmly in front of the whole gym class (and teacher who had been letting this go on for months) - said to the guy who'd just "accidently" almost knocked him down,

"Hey, I don't want to fight you, but I will if I have to. So if you want to fight, then fight or just leave me the hell alone." Now my kid was taller, but very skinnny and not imposing looking at all, but - what the others didn't know - is that besides being a dancer, he'd been taking kungfu (the real kind) for years and was quite good at it - so the other kid saw the look in his eye, the calm assurance on his face that he could and would KICK HIS ASS, and the guy mumbled something and walked off. . .

Unfortunately, the rest of the kids laughed AND this kid was a known "gangbanger" and word got out that he was going to "GET" my son. Fortunately, he was arrested that weekend for some other crime. Still though, with everything - the lack of academic challenge, the social bs that went on, and the bullying - it was just a waste so he dropped back out at Christmas to homeschooling until he could go to the "alternative high school" in the fall.

[NotThisTime]

31. Our son had to use that training when he was assaulted by six kids this past October

He kicked all their asses, yeh, he was slightly sore, but they were on their asses... he'd been taking karate for many years and was state champ in sparring for 3 of those years... the kids had no idea, but SIX FREAKING kid and not an adult to be found... the administration wouldn't do a god damn thing, his grades dropped like a rock and we pulled him out after Christmas

[mzteris]

39. the "adults" were hiding...

Good that your son was able to protect himself. I'm sorry he had to go through that, though. How's he doing now? Are you homeschooling or did you move him to another school?

My son has only "used" his kung fu a few times and that was strictly in self-defense when some stupid kid would try and "jump" him. He could immediately subdue them and tell them he'd let them up if they were calm, etc. Usually the speed and the calm detachment with which he did it was rather unnerving. Especially as up until puberty, in addition to being super-skinny, he was very short.

He doesn't do KF anymore - he has no TIME!! as a serious pre-professional dancer. But I still don't think I'd mess with him. The moves are quite similar in dance and KF so I imagine he could still protect himself if he had to. Fortunately, the alternative school he attends is made up entirely of quirky kids, and/or GLBT kids, and/or other kids who were bullied for whatever reason at their regular schools... It's awesome. Absolute zero bullying policy. Though the teachers don't have to worry about it much at all. It's practically non-existent and any/all kid(s) in earshot are quick to "intervene" if any one of them gets out of line.

[NotThisTime]

79. Well, his story is a mix of good and bad now....

Although he was able to protect himself, the reason for the assault was due to his ethnic makeup, although white, apparently being red headed and Irish brought this upon him...

Anyhow, in the weeks following the attack the entire experience, realizing that he was targeted specifically, started to have an emotional impact on him. It basically culminated with him breaking down in front of a teacher six weeks later. Unbeknown to us his homework wasn't making it into school and all he could really think about was what happened... At about the same time I was very seriously concerned over what he might do next and the same day the teacher talked to guidance, I called the guidance department....

Through out all these weeks I had made complaints to both the school and police, but it was the schools stance that it was "kids being kids", well, my kid kicked the ass of six others, but his grades dropped 20 points due to his emotional state (no teacher reported that until mid term grades came out), so I don't think this was a case of kids being kids... sorry, it's not okay. The police talked to the school where they were told the same thing and we decided for our sons sake not to move forward pressing charges as it was such a sensitive time.

We started working daily with him, he got his grades back up around ten points by the end of the marking period and in the meantime we looked for a school where this would never happen to him again. He's now attending a private liberal arts school where kids are allowed to be themselves and not heckled or assaulted for it. The teachers respect the students the students respect teachers and the administration works one on one with the kids... I had dinner coincidentally with the headmaster last night.....

I wish the public system had worked for us, but it didn't, and I don't know how to fix what's wrong with it, all I know is you have to keep talking and keep on pointing out what is right even when they won't listen...

I'm glad he was able to protect himself, he'd do it again if he had to, but the effect it had on him emotionally is probably the cause of so many violent acts at school... I can only imagine.... it should have never happened.

[miscsoc]

40. that's pretty awesome

tell your kid some guy on the internet was impressed my his martial prowess :)

but still, he shouldn't have had to kick anyone's ass. adults should have been doing it for him.

it is pathetic and disgusting that you were forced to pull him out though. makes me angry. fuck whoever was in charge of his school.

[NotThisTime]

80. The people in charge of his school didn't give a damn and wouldn't even return emails....

This school touts it's zero tolerance, well I told the freaking principal they get to say that when they actually show it and not before...


But I'll tell my son you liked his martial prowess :) He's a really good kid....

[Mojeoux]

75. He's my new kid hero!

Just to know that parents like you exist and a kid like this roams the earth is awesome!

All blessings.

"Education, Education, Education!" Mim Thayer

[Smarmie Doofus]

15. Thanks for "life is a battle" as adjective.

Consider it appropriated and added to my permanent repertoire.

>>>>And it doesn't break the cycle.>>>

Indeed. It will be great if this *particular* kid can resolve his *particular* problem. But DEMs and progressive should be ( and usually ARE) interested in what happens the *next* time, to the *next* kid.

[JHB]

24. You're right that black belts aren't the solution...

...but, longer term, some activity that help build physical confidence in one's self will be a help, especially to a kid on the small side.

At least that's my experience. Anecdotal evidence has its limitations, of course.

[miscsoc]

17. i hate it when people say bullied kids should just fight back

because, hell, a lot of the time kids who get bullied aren't very good at fighting.

it's not the goddamn kid's responsibility to defend himself physically. it's not like it's less bad for a kid to be picked on if he's short and uncoordinated or whatever. My dad used to say that to me, because he was a fucking irresponsible coward and wasn't willing to do what he should have and confront the bullies and their parents and the school. Actually the one time I fought back, it worked, but that was a matter of luck and of being a relatively sturdily built child.

(I kneed the kid in the nuts. That seemed to scare him off)

[Ken Burch]

20. It also assumes the bully will fight you fair

and not have five or six of his crew beat down on you if it looks like you're holding your own. Or that he'll accept defeat and leave it at that, rather than seeking greater revenge later.

[miscsoc]

22. exactly

it's a moronic and immoral thing to tell a kid.

[paulsby]

61. get over yourself

it is not immoral to tell a kid to defend himself with physical force

you may think it suboptimal, but IMMORAL?

get real

[miscsoc]

62. i don't think it's wrong for kids to fight back

if they do, and it works, good for them. but in many cases it doesn't.

i guess inculculating suboptimal behaviour patterns in yr kids is immoral, in my view, at least when it comes to their physical safety.

Also it's immoral to make your child feel he has the duty to fight back, and that if he doesn't, or does so badly, he is responsible for his predicament. Which is what a hell of a lot of parents, fathers esp, do, when they tell their bullied kid to "hit back"

[paulsby]

72. i think you have a strange definition of "immoral"

and teaching your kid how to fight back, and that it's ok to fight back is not teaching him that he is "responsible for his predicament"

those are two entirely different things you are conflating

you can teach him that there are people who do bad things in this world, and that there is nothing wrong with defending yourself against people who would victimize you.

that is NOT saying you are responsible for being victimized

i don't know where you get this stuff.

[mzteris]

85. i tell my kids the same thing my mama told me -

"don't you ever start a fight, but if someone else starts it, you have my permission to finish it."

I also add that they will never be punished for inserting themselves into protecting other kids who might be being assaulted. . .

My younger son (11yo/5th grade) - who's built like a tank (a big tank!) - doesn't "have" to fight, he pretty much just looks at you. lol. Though on Friday a kid in his class tried to "tackle him" on the playground - grabbing his legs and trying to dump him over (that kid ain't too bright. Smart but not too bright ya know?) - anyway my "tank" just kinda stood there but did flail initially because the kid came up unexpectedly while he was walking. During the flailing in order to not fall over, the other kid's head and my son's (open) hand collided and the other kid had the nerve to start crying and say my son "hit" him.... I think a lot of the "crying" had to do with the fact that after the initial unsteadiness, mine just stood there while the other kid tried to pull his legs out from under him and the other kids started laughing.

Fortunately the teachers all know the kids pretty well and tried hard not to laugh themselves. If my son had "hit" him - the other one probably wouldn't've been talking. Besides, my son is one of the most polite, mild-mannered sweet kids you'd ever want to meet. The teachers know he goes to great lengths to not "hurt" people - even involuntarily.

[JerseygirlCT]

25. Agreed. Or they're kids who've been taught not to handle

problems with violence.

I raised two lovers, not fighters.

In 3rd grade, they need adults to step in and handle this. Firmly.

[miscsoc]

34. absolutely,

the adults need to take responsibility here

the brutality of the unsupervised playground shouldn't be romanticised. it doesn't "build character" to be tormented by other children or to torment other children. It cramps and stunts character.

[JerseygirlCT]

67. And you have to wonder about the price paid by all of those kids

not just the ones being bullied, but the ones doing the bullying. Where are they learning that? Why are they not being taught better? Why are they being allowed to do something so hurtful?

I so agree with you - there's nothing romantic, or educational, about bullying.

[miscsoc]

21. the fucking idea that bullied kids should learn karate or get tougher, or learn to fight

makes my blood boil.

[EFerrari]

28. Actually, learning karate or something like that can give a kid confidence

which is an appropriate counter to the helplessness of being bullied. That's not to say that adults shouldn't handle the situation but these lessons put a kid in a disciplined group of peers (asshole free zone) and in charge of themselves, two things a bullied kid could use.

Two of my cousins were put into karate when they were very young and being bullied. One of them still practicies martial arts now in his 40s. It became a lifelong interest. Go figure.

[LeftyMom]

32. That still teaches the bullied kid that something in him needs to be changed to end it.

[miscsoc]

36. That encapsulates my problem with this atttitude

it "teaches the bullied kid that something in him needs to be changed to end it"

I'm glad you are someone's Mom!

[LeftyMom]

47. Thanks!

I got bullied all through Junior High. I was popular and well liked for the first few weeks, then a boy a lot of the other girls liked said something nice to me, and a very catty girl loudly made a joke about my small bra size (I was eleven, ffs) to put me back in my place and get his attention back to her. In that moment it was like somebody flipped a switch, and everybody knew it: I was now a part of the out group, nobody was to be nice to me. The rest of my experience at that school consisted of constant teasing.

High school would probably have gone similarly, but my freshman year I dated a senior who was really, really big for a high school guy and had a reputation for being slightly crazy. We stayed friends and after that nobody figured it was worth getting their ass kicked just to give me a hard time. I wasn't popular, but I wasn't bullied either, which was good enough for me.

My being bullied started through no fault of my own and ended through no fault of my own.

[BlooInBloo]

74. Yah - much better to teach the kid that he or she is powerless to do anything on his/her own...

And must always run to mommy to make it all better.

Your boiling blood aside, I have no problem whatsoever providing my children with a variety of tools to be called into use in a variety of situations they are likely to encounter in life, to help them manage as well as possible. The ability to defend oneself is but one such tool.

[mzteris]

41. interesting point.

I never thought about it that way. . .

Of course eliminating the BULLYING behaviour is optimal, but unfortunately unrealistic for most schools.

Another good point for homeschooling. Bullying? IF it happens, it doesn't last long, does it? (How's your little guy, btw? just made me think, he doesn't have to worry, he can always call on Flvegan. :rofl: sorry.... my younger son thinks FLV is the coolest guy EVER and he's never even met him.)

[LeftyMom]

51. My little guy is going to be nine tomorrow!

I have no idea who told him he can grow up on me.

I love that he's free to be himself, even when being himself means being really, really geeky, and not worry about the social implications of that or what other people think. He doesn't try to fit himself into anybody's preconceived boxes of different kinds of kids, so he likes some things that are "cool" (video games, skateboarding, guitar) some that are "uncool" (WoW, Star Trek, lego) and some that are so off the wall I don't think most kids his age even have an opinion about them (old school hardcore, film making.)

Luckily, minime acts just like me, but looks just like a scaled down version of flvegan (I have no idea why- they're not related, I didn't know him back then) so he has the chance to be different without having to worry about what other people think. It's interesting to me, since I was always a really small kid for my age, to see how differently my kid gets treated because he's so much bigger than his peers, even though he's very gentle and would never, ever use that to his advantage.

[flvegan]

73. Yes he can always call on me.

As for "the coolest guy ever" that is a VERY flattering thing to read. Thank you, that made my evening.

[mzteris]

86. well, you're a vegan,

you "rescue" dogs, and you're built like a tank, too. :)

[EFerrari]

49. Right. It teaches the kid that there are some things within their control.

[LeftyMom]

53. The behavior of bullies is not one of those things.

The bullied kid generally hasn't done anything to encourage the behavior, other than exist. The problem is the bullies. Maybe they should take some classes that will improve their confidence, because if they had any genuine self-esteem they wouldn't tear down other kids to make themselves feel better.

Trying to change the bullied kid teaches them that it's their fault. Which, aside from being bullshit, constitutes further bullying from the adults they should be able to trust.

[EFerrari]

54. It's funny because I didn't suggest that training for the bullied kid

would handle the bullying. So, I'm not sure what you're responding to but it's not me. :)

[Odin2005]

59. Exactly! What about the fucking BULLIES' behavior!?!

[CoffeeCat]

71. Do you want to know why my daughter was told?

My daughter was bullied in kindergarten by a very disturbed little girl who
would not leave her alone. My child would have bite marks on her forehead when
I picked her up from school. She was only five years old.

I went to the principal. He told me that the problem was that my child needed
to be more assertive. That I needed to work with her at home, "or this would
continue to happen."

I'm very ashamed to say that I didn't know what to do. I told the principal
that I would work with my daughter, but that someone had to be working with
the bullying--to get this stopped.

This stuff went on for many weeks. I called the principal. I tried to get it
stopped. I wish I would have done what other parents did---raise complete
hell and demand that it be stopped.

I've seen what happens when parents stand up for themselves and their child. The
principal calls in the kids, and tells them that if they do this bullying again---that
there will be severe consquences and that they could be suspended from school. It works.
It always does.

I understand parents who fear the school, the principal or don't want to make it worse. I
also understand naievete, because I was pretty naieve. However, there's only one thing
that can make the bullying stop--and that's the principal telling the bullies that their
behavior won't be tolerated and that if it happens again--there will be serious
consequences. It's the only way it will be stopped.

[Odin2005]

83. Wow, what a pathetic principal!

Yeah, lets train everyone to be mean, suspicious jerks, that will make everything just wonderful. :eyes:

[eShirl]

60. WHOOSH

:eyes:

[Ken Burch]

87. It's tied into the even WORSE idea that having to face bullies "builds character"

As if our kids need to be "blooded" in order to "prove themselves".

[Ken Burch]

10. K&R- and who the FUCK "unrec'd" this?

This is about child abuse-the kind of trauma that could destroy that kid and is being done to kids all across the country. There's no reason for anyone to object to this thread being posted.

It's about saving lives, people!

[hypocrisyandlies]

35. Rec'd to counteract that unrec.

And I agree that this comes down to saving lives. How many school shootings have happened because of bullying? How many students take their own lives because of what they have to face every day? How many are altered forever because of the bullying they face at school? It needs to stop.

[slampoet]

27. MOST kids who get "gay-bashed" in school are not gay. That's something people forget.

[Lex]

42. ....and that's why gay-bashing should be a concern for *every* parent.

It's not just a "gay" problem.

[slampoet]

82. BINGO!

[Ken Burch]

88. In school(if you're male)you're a potential gaybashing victim

if you aren't an outright thug.

It's about the worst kids trying to force everyone else to be just as horrible as they are.

[miscsoc]

43. it's irrelevant though.

it's not any better if they are actually gay

(although how the fuck can a prepubescent kid be gay or straight or anything)

[Smarmie Doofus]

48. What's interesting is that the language and attitudes are in place.....

>>>>>>(although how the fuck can a prepubescent kid be gay or straight or anything)>>>>>

before there is even a clear idea associated with them.

What are kids learning? Where and how are they learning it? ( South Park? You Tube? MTV? Family Guy? )


We know from WHOM they are learning it: their elders.

[Smarmie Doofus]

45. EX-ACTLY. That's why I posted this here and not in GLBT.

This crap ( i.e. these ideas, attitudes, prejudices, misconceptions...whatever you wanna call 'em) hurts EVERYBODY. Not just gays.

Everybody.

*EVERYBODY*.

[FedUpWithIt All]

33. I am so sorry this is happening to this boy. There are dangers in waiting for the problem

to resolve itself. Children will sometimes stop telling of the continued bullying as a way to protect their parents from ongoing anxiety or because they mistakenly get the impression that the issue should be their burden.

I would suggest that the best way to handle this situation, BECAUSE it is the third grade, is to involve the school. Most third graders will still respond to that type of reprimand very well. In fact it might have long lasting affects if it is done at this age. Children at this age pick on easy targets. An easy target is NOT one who's parents get the teachers, principal and your parents after you. Retaliation for this, at this age, is highly unlikely and would only lead to the same extremely unpleasant result for the bullying child.

The worst thing that can happen is if the boy feels that telling his parents is not leading to a resolution, especially if he also sees that they are being upset by his telling them of the incidents, and begins to feel burdened to internalize his fear, stress and anxiety. If the problem becomes ongoing the risk is that the child will feel that they, themselves, are responsible for it's ongoing nature and since their hands are tied when it comes to stopping the problem they begin to internalize.

I would advise the parents to speak up ASAP. I hope the boy finds some peace.

[miscsoc]

46. v/ good post

i'm really trying to make a point of not forgetting how it actually feels to be picked on as a child, or to be a child generally. you seem to be doing the same. it's important to do this, since children just can't communicate their own experiences to us easily. We have to refer to our own memories to try to understand them and take their feelings seriously.

[Smarmie Doofus]

52. Interesting observation:

>>>>>>>Children at this age pick on easy targets. An easy target is NOT one who's parents get the teachers, principal and your parents after you. Retaliation for this, at this age, is highly unlikely and would only lead to the same extremely unpleasant result for the bullying child.>>>>>>>>>

I'm inclined to agree. One of the oddest things ( to me) about this particular situation is that I associate the Darwinian jungle-phase of development with older kids: i.e. middle school. Third graders usually *don't* do this... in my experience anyway. And the homophobic element: they seem to be using terminology that they cannot possibly understand. That's weird also.

>>>>>>>The worst thing that can happen is if the boy feels that telling his parents is not leading to a resolution, especially if he also sees that they are being upset by his telling them of the incidents, and begins to feel burdened to internalize his fear, stress and anxiety. If the problem becomes ongoing the risk is that the child will feel that they, themselves, are responsible for it's ongoing nature and since their hands are tied when it comes to stopping the problem they begin to internalize.

I would advise the parents to speak up ASAP. I hope the boy finds some peace.>>>>



The parents are super-well equipped to deal with the situation , and I'm sure they'll see that he perseveres. So don't worry too much.

I more concerned for kids whose parents are not as sophisticated. WTF happens to *them*?

[hypocrisyandlies]

38. Stories like this always make me feel sick.

Sad part is, I doubt that many of those kids even know what a "homo" is. They just know that it is seen as negative so they use it to cut someone down.

[madmom]

50. This has nothing to do with the "gay bashing" but everything to do with bullying..when my

daughter was in probably about 3rd grade, she was also being bullied. The "guys" would pull her long pony tail or yank her arm, stuff like that. She came home crying and I immediately went to the principle. He sided with the boys, hey "boys will be boys" kind of thing. After the second incident when nothing was done I again went and told the principle that if something wasn't done IMMEDIATELY she was going to start fighting back and she would be taught how to administer a "well placed kick". He got all flustered and said "you can't do that" me: "watch me!" and I left. That was the end of the story on our side. The bullying stopped forever more! These kids are now in their 20's and friends.

Tell your friend to go ASAP talk to the teacher, principle who ever BUT GO!!!!

[uppityperson]

55. 3rd grade is when a lot of bullying picks up and needs to be addressed

This is not about one kid being picked on, but about those doing the bullying. If the one kid stands up to them, they will simply pick on someone else.

I agree, need to talk with the teacher AND the principal now.

[Smarmie Doofus]

63. Actually, it has a *lot* to do w. gay bashing.

Note: the kid is small. Yet they did not call him "shorty"; the kid is smart: yet they did not call him "braniac". They called him the worst thing their third grade minds could think of to rationalize / justify the bullying: "homo".

Why is that? Why do you suppose *that* word, specifically, carries such weight?

[miscsoc]

65. interesting anecdote:

when i was in primary school, kids used to call each other "gay" as an insult

at the same time they earnestly announced their intention to marry a boy when they grew up, since girls were smelly or something. we chose our future husbands and everything.

this was not in our minds a gay thing to do

[madmom]

66. I was referring to MY anecdote, not the OP.

[Rex]

56. Ugh...kids can be so ugly to each other. And in 3rd grade!?!

Sigh, tell your friends kid that they are bullying him and he needs to tell a teacher.

[a la izquierda]

57. if i had a kid...

and some little shithead bully put their hands on him in a menacing way, there would be holy hell to pay.
i was bullied as a kid. i luckily had friends who helped me (mostly guy friends), but my folks didn't believe me. i grew up with a very warped sense of self. i grew up with a gnarly temper, and an extreme dislike for most women (to this day, i take forever to make girlfriends and i rarely trust any of them).
when i have kids, god help the parents of any child who bullies mine. if they think their kids will get away with it, "because that's what kids do" they'll be mistaken.

[Odin2005]

58. I'm straight, was always teased and bullied as being "gay" because I was the Sensitive Boy...

...Who didn't follow typical masculine stereotypes.

[Initech]

64. Like I said in another thread - douchebaggery trancends time and space.

It sucks that people resort to that kind of intolerance even in elementary school but there are douchebags no matter where you go.

[CoffeeCat]

68. This needs to be stopped...and stopped NOW...

First--The most recent research and data on the effects of bullying are jarring. Kids
who are bullied are more likely to end up depressed or experience long-term psychological
trauma. These kids really do suffer. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Kids lack
the ability to solve personal problems and soothe themselves--as adults do. Kids can't
drive away, or call a friend for advice or to vent. They lack the cognitive ability
to save themselves. However, they feel the emotion--and it can be devastating. To feel
unsafe in your own school--can cause real trauma.

Secondly--I'd like to share a story. My forth grader told me about a fellow classmate
who was being bullied. He was being hit, pushed, called names, etc. My daughter told
me it had been happening for quite a while. I called the victim's parents--who were
shocked and so upset. The mother marched up to the school and DEMANDED that this be
stopped immediately. She raised holy hell. She got it stopped within 24 hours. She
didn't ask that they do something---she demanded that this NEVER, EVER happen to her
son again. That's what every parent should do.

I'd also like to share that this mother shared with me how her son had suffered in silence.
He took the abuse--which was even much more than my daughter had witnessed. He suffered
so much psychologically. He hated school, he became more withdrawn and he began having
emotional problems at home. His mom didn't know why or what was happening. He never
shared that he was being bullied because he was ashamed. This is a brilliant kid who
is in the talented/gifted program. Even the smartest of kids won't tell. They simply
don't know how to handle this confluence of rage, sadness, loss, stress, shame and pain
at that age. The suffer like hell. They are too young to deal with this.

All I can say is---this needs to be stopped now before great psychological damage is done.

The parent must treat this as a very serious matter that could psychologically
and emotionally impact the child for many years. The parent must advocate for
their child--because the child is ill-equipped and too immature to deal with a situation
in which they are being abused and made to feel unsafe in their own school.

I feel very strongly about this because I have seen firsthand, how kids suffer and how
they need their parents to step in and fight like hell for them--and to get this stuff
stopped.

[BlooInBloo]

69. lol - I remember when I was around that age another kid called me gay...

I looked at him with "wtf does that mean" look, and continued on happily about my business.

Looking back on it, I wonder why a kid that age would know what that even means.

[BlueIris]

76. I'd skip the "conversations" with teachers and admin and just lawyer up.

When it's reached a level in which physical altercation is involved, it's time to notify the authorities. With legal stationary.