Rachel I love you but Zero a sight

[nadinbrzezinski]

is to calibrate a sight.

It is like oh basic... and DynCorp didn't do it for a simple reason. No zeroed sights... no passing grades, longer contracts.

It is not that the Afghani were not told how to use a sight, or acquire a sight picture. They didn't want to make sure they WORKED the way they should.

This is as bad as that "boat prison" gaffe. Though I get it, unless you've handled a weapon, and most people have not, that is even easier to make.

On edit, I am sure the Afghani recruits could do this if they were allowed. This is a culture were guns are all over the place, going back to smooth bore guns.

[Bigmack]

1. I'm guessing they grew up with "Kentucky Windage" &"Spray & Pray". nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Oh Afghanis (like many other tribal peoples around the world)

are far better shots than we give them credit. In fact, they at times use them guns to hunt.

Hell, one person who was over there on a tour brought back a 1898 Mauser, that was in an armory... with some even older toys. Some of those, after a little cleaning, should go to museums.

[Bigmack]

21. Fine shots... the older guys....

but the younger... not so much.

Response # 1 to this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4345519

jody (1000+ posts) Thu Apr-15-10 08:36 PM

1. The real reason “No Known Cure For The AK-47 Disease”

“No Known Cure For The AK-47 Disease”
April 12, 2010: American and NATO trainers are frustrated at their inability to train Afghans to shoot accurately. The Afghan soldiers and police, despite the constant example of superior marksmanship on the part of foreign troops, persist in pointing their weapons, instead of aiming them. Meanwhile, Afghan traditionalists are trying to change the way the Taliban fight. This can be seen by the increase in the use of sniping by the Taliban. In the two years, NATO units in southern Afghanistan estimate there has been a sharp (over 30 percent) percent increase in sniping incidents. This is not seen as a major danger. NATO troops wear protective bests and helmets that can stop bullets fired at long range, making it very frustrating for the Taliban shooters trying to hit a distant target in a vulnerable spot. And there was not a lot of sniping by the Taliban to begin with.

* * * * * * * * * * *

Then some of the young guys remembered grandpa decrying the decline in marksmanship years ago. Back before the Russians showed up, in the 1980s, the best an Afghan could hope to have was a World War II, or World War I, era bolt action rifle. These weapons were eclipsed in the 1980s by full automatic AK-47s and the RPG rocket launcher. The young guys took to the AK, and the thrill of emptying a 30 round magazine on full automatic. Not bad for a brief firefight, and suddenly hardly anyone, except a few old timers, wanted to use the old bolt action rifle, or learn how to hit anything with single shots.

* * * * * * * * * * *

During the 1980s, Saudi Arabia spent billions of dollars to arm Afghans with all the AK-47s and ammo they could use, and they used lots of it. But rarely for target practice. Compared to bolt-action rifles like the British Lee-Enfield, the AK-47 was less accurate when one shot at a time was fired. The old timers, or a few young traditionalists, kept their Lee-Enfields, and made themselves useful picking off Russian soldiers at long distances, on those rare occasions where that was needed. A few Afghans noted that the AK-47, fired one shot at a time, was pretty accurate out to about 300 meters. But the Russians had more firepower, and it was rarely prudent to stay too close to them for too long. So "spray and pray" (going full automatic all the time) became the new Afghan warrior tradition.

* * * * * * * * * * *

NATO trainers get nowhere by mentioning the old Afghan warrior tradition of sharpshooting. The lack of discipline, and literacy, among so many Afghan recruits leaves less time for weapons training anyway. Meanwhile, the allure of "spray and pray" is too strong for a generation that has access to automatic weapons, and all the ammo they can carry.

[MattBaggins]

10. Kentucky Windage and Indiana Elevation

[AnArmyVeteran]

2. Didn't you see her program where Rachel showed the dictionary's definition was 'boat prison'...

And remember, Rachel does a lot of things tongue in cheek, like calling televisions 'tv machines'. I like her pet names. I haven't seen today's show so I don't know about the 'sight' issue. But regardless, nothing Rachel does is malicious. Compare her to the likes of the sewer creatures on Fox News. All they do is try to deliberately hurt others. Their fans love it when they verbally abuse guests. That's because those on the right are abusive people. I don't have to look any further than my older brother and sister to see their evil abuse. They attack minimum wage store clerks, yelling and screaming at them. They sense the vulnerability in others and prey on it. Give Rachel a break. She is a better journalist than every person working at Fox News combined.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Yes, and I appreciate to have a certain respect for the language

also my Collegiate Dictionary does not agree. I indeed sent her MY DEFINITION from Websters.

And I give her more than a break, but as a writer I have a certain respect for the language.

Now this zero sights, I get it. I doubt she's ever handled a weapon of any kind.

[Dappleganger]

8. actually, she has.

Can't recall which interview, but she admitted that someone had convinced her to learn to shoot although it's not her favorite thing to do. I remember it because it seemed a bit odd, but made sense.

BTW, just because someone has handled a weapon doesn't make them an expert in how it works. I carry nearly every day and am by no means whatsoever an expert into all of its mechanics, just enough to take it apart to clean and use it correctly at the range.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. I am sure you have zeroed your sights at least once

:-)

[Dappleganger]

11. Actually, I make my husband do it.

He does my CT grips as well. ;)

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Then you get why that part of the story was the actual nugget of the story

UNTIL those sights were zeroes those recruits would do lousy. I mean Afghans are mean shots actually.

[Dappleganger]

14. Are they body mass weapons?

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. AK 47 and M-16s

and I know I am picky on things that most people usually aren't.

[Dappleganger]

13. Along that line of thinking...

if she's shooting someone else's weapon the sight is already zeroed in and she wouldn't need to do it. Just a thought.

I'll give her the benefit of the doubt because she does so well with researching her topics on a regular basis. If it becomes a pattern of not doing so, that's different.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Yes she does, but at times thigns like this

don't help. As I said the story was the sights were NOT zeroed in. The Carabinieri did that, and walla all scores suddenly, and not surprisingly improved. This was done to increase contract length, I am betting on it.

I want to see DynCorp internal paperwork, they hire former cops and military, who KNOW how to zero a weapon.

[pinboy3niner]

17. As I recall, zeroing is specific to the individual user

Once a weapon is zeroed, the sights will be in general alignment for any subsequent user. However, a new user will still need to zero the weapon for accuracy (basically fine-tuning the sight system to the way that individual uses it).

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Exactly and I suspect the DynCorp instructors

didn't allow them to do that.

No passing grades, longer contracts...

And you need to teach to zero a sight to shooters like on the first class.

(And I have not handled weapons that much either)

[X_Digger]

22. Actually she has..

“When I had my radio show – that was my full time job, before I was on TV, I used to bring all of my producers to the shooting range in Manhattan,” Maddow said. “There’s one down on 20th Street and that’s what we’d do to unsettle them when they started working for me.”

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2009/20090901110443.aspx

[AnArmyVeteran]

3. Didn't you see her program where Rachel showed the dictionary's definition was 'boat prison'...

And remember, Rachel does a lot of things tongue in cheek, like calling televisions 'tv machines'. I like her pet names. I haven't seen today's show so I don't know about the 'sight' issue. But regardless, nothing Rachel does is malicious. Compare her to the likes of the sewer creatures on Fox News. All they do is try to deliberately hurt others. Their fans love it when they verbally abuse guests. That's because those on the right are abusive people. I don't have to look any further than my older brother and sister to see their evil abuse. They attack minimum wage store clerks, yelling and screaming at them. They sense the vulnerability in others and prey on it. Give Rachel a break. She is a better journalist than every person working at Fox News combined.

[pinboy3niner]

6. I missed that segment--how did Rachel describe zeroing?

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. She didn't, they glosed over it

and went into Dyncorp not teaching the recruits how to fire them until the Italians came in and zeroed them in. I think she didn't get the actual significance of what the Carabinieri did.

[pinboy3niner]

18. Too bad

It would have been cool to have another "boat jail" moment. Like you, I tend to be a stickler for details and fine points, but at the same time, I enjoy those endearing "Rachelisms" too much not to make exceptions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. That they are...