What has NASA done for you?

[nadinbrzezinski]

I know I know, but they are just wasting that money...

I guess then that all of you would love to NOT use a computer. See that miniaturization driven by silly shit like the Apollo program is directly linked to the computers you enjoy today... no need, I guess we'd still be working on much larger, and chiefly less portable systems.

Another thing that space flight has done is give quite a bit of impulse to Hydroponics... we all know that sooner or later humans will need to grow food in space. Hell, we have had already experiments on much improved hydroponics in space. So what you may say? It will allow YOU and ME to grow food in places that we could not do otherwise... this will help to feed people in the future.

I could go on for the usual benefits... the list is VERY LONG

Reality is that the US of A is an empire in decline and our traditional fear of learnin' and science and all that... well the ESA (European Space Agency) as well as the Japanese, and yes the Chinese, will be takin' over that leadership... They get it. Space Programs are a SMALL part of the budget and like many other SCIENCE programs they actually give you quite a bang for buck. We don't... and we will continue to decline.

So we will read about OTHERS accomplishments in space, and that technological leadership will soon leave this country.

On the bright side, yes you will see NASA cut to the bone and then some.

[Ian David]

1. If your PC doesn't occupy an entire room of your house, you can thank NASA. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. And for the IPOD too

:-)

[Naturalist111]

27. Shazam!

+10

[Liberal_in_LA]

46. good point.

[FarCenter]

50. The first integrated circuits were used in Air Force computers and Minuteman missiles

NASA didn't have much of anything to do with miniturizing computers. ICBMs and other missile guidance systems, as well as Navy submarine navigation, etc., were the drivers.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. It's increased my knowledge of space science.

As for actual technological achievements for day to day use...

that's ridiculously overblown propaganda.

There are plenty of good reasons for space exploration besides this crap about having invented computers and MRIs and velcro.

[Johonny]

17. and Earth Science

Space turns out to be a great place to study Earth:)

I agree the argument the poster makes could be used to defend Reagan's Star Wars spending. Did new technology come out of Star Wars money? Yeah. Does that justify all the waste in the Star Wars budget? No.

[iamthebandfanman]

68. I AGREE

who needs computers and MRIs!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Everybody.

Good thing they didn't come from the space program.

[madokie]

4. What makes this computer possible was part of nasa

my big green egg is a direct result of the space shuttle tiles.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Ah yes the tiles, we want greener tech for roofs

oh wait, the fire resistant tiles in California... how did I forget THEM.

As I said the list is long

[underpants]

5. syndromes that affect the brain, such as stroke, dementia, and traumatic brain injury.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/dynadx_diagnostic.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Absolutely

Zero G allows to do some studies that cannot well be done on the ground.

And materials sciences too.

[underpants]

7. first responders

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/pdf/PV2009_6536.pdf

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Yep, hell one of the traction spints I used for years

no, not the monster, a really portable one, was developed for NASA...

I loved the damn thing and could bring it down to patients.

And lets not go for the IV Pump, portable IV pump.

[underpants]

8. NASA will help probe Toyota acceleration problem

http://www.kmtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12224720

[underpants]

11. computer mouse, eye diseases, diabetes, wildfire tracking, conchelar implants, & Nerf Gliders

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technologies/spinoffs.html

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/

[Duppers]

65. NASA Spinoffs

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

and

Health and Medicine - NASA Spinoffs
http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html#health

Listed there, you'll find this: "ULTRASOUND SKIN DAMAGE ASSESSMENT - Advanced instrument using NASA ultrasound technology enables immediate assessment of burn damage depth, improving patient treatment, and may save lives in serious burn cases."
Dr. Duppers developed this! And yes, I'm very proud of him!

Another one of his NASA patents is an invention that measures changes in intracranial pressure non-invasively: “Non-invasive Method of Determining Diastolic Intracranial Pressure” / “Non-invasive Method of Determining Absolute Intracranial Pressure” Determining intracranial pressure is important in head trauma patients. This method of testing eliminates the need to drill holes in brain injured patients' heads just to determine if intracranial pressure has reached a critical point. If it indeed has, then and only then will doctors drill.

He has also developed testing techniques to detect flaws and fatigue in materials which can predict problems in all kinds of machinery, aircraft, bridges, etc., hence making our lives much safer. One of is devices/techniques has saved Dominion Power several millions of dollars. (Nope, he's not greatly financially rewarded, since the patent belong to NASA.)

________________________________________________________________________________________________



While I'm quite defensive and protective of NASA and its budget, I still believe that most of what we can learn from and accomplish in space scientifically, at this point in time, can be done more efficiently using robots.

[evlbstrd]

12. Tang™.

And Space Food Sticks™.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Funny thing TANG actually preceded it

but was a hell of a marketing thing since it was the ONLY thing at the time that they could use.

That said... food safety technology and MREs have improved greatly due to it. And trust me, a descent tasting MRE is not just good for the troops. In a disaster you too will love yourself some MRE.

Oh and definitely water... those little sacs of water that have a five year shelf life... come straight from NASA

[immoderate]

20. TANG was developed in the 1940s.

This spinoff stuff is a hype. No scientific development will come from manned missions to Mars. Scientists and laboratories are here on Earth. They run on money. Send people to Mars, and there will be less money for research and development.

--imm

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. And there are materials that cannot be developed on Earth

because of EARTH GRAVITY. You knew that right?

And the Splint I carried in my kit for femur fractures was not my imagination... nor was the IV pump we used for disasters or the portable suction machine.

By the way, you want to give up your computer and your banking? Or for that matter, more direct... the weather satellites?

Oh and that water with a lifespan of five years is a direct derivative of NASA

[immoderate]

54. What has any of this to do with a manned mission to Mars?

All those innovations you are touting were developed right here on good old earth, by people who had never been to space. Requires money, imagination, hard work, and money. Oh did I mention money? Notice I didn't mention space ships. Take Bell Labs for instance. They developed transistors, lasers, cell phones, networking, and UNIX, without a space program. They also did Telstar. But that was the space program.

Computers and banks(?) precede any space program. Remember UNIVAC? You got me with weather satellites. :) But my point is none of this required missions to other planets.

By the way, if you're looking for zero gravity, you won't find it anywhere on Mars, or the moon, for that matter.

I have heard about materials that can only be produced in zero-g. An alloy of aluminum and lead is the example I've heard cited. Matter of fact, it's the only example I've heard cited. That and crystals. But I have not seen any "alumilead" or super-symmetrical crystals here on earth.

I imagine that there are some things which require zero-g or the vacuum of space to manufacture. What's wrong with earth orbit? Not expensive enough?

Five year lifespan for water? I'm truly puzzled here. I didn't know that water could wear out.

I'm not against science, space exploration, or discovery. But I am against manned exploration until there are suitable vehicles, and propulsion systems to make it practical. Better systems than the shuttle could be developed to achieve earth orbit. (All this assumes we won't go broke (or broker) in the meantime.

Nadin, I've read your stuff here for years and I enjoy your posts. You usually make more sense.

--imm

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Computers were developed on Earth

but the IMPULSE for miniaturization came from the Apollo program

Water... see the coast guard approved bags... they have a shelf life. Water itself does not go bad, but water pollution does make it go bad... this comes from things like bacteria. Why you are SUPPOSED to cycle your water reserves when you have them for a quake kit every six months.

MREs came from the Space Program in their current form... chiefly making those pieces of crap palatable.

Nomex came from it... and every firefighter I know off can thank NASA for it.

The cold suit, used to keep people well cold before surgery, comes from the astronaut suit... and no that would not have been developed otherwise.

The Tanks I wore to fight fires... well the one we use today comes straight from NASA. Yes there were some before, they were damn bulky and lasted far less, and most fire service personnel HATED them. They don't like them that much, but the Scott Air Pack is a great improvement, why compliance is higher

I could go on, the list of spin offs is very long.

As to the manned flight, don't worry, the US will not do it. The vision is gone. The ESA will.

[immoderate]

77. Another poster...

...pointed out that integrated circuits were developed for ballistic missiles. See, there is a lot of hype here. It's a chicken-egg thing.

--imm

[liberation]

83. Do you know what "ballistic missiles" are?

Hint: space rockets.

Without the push by the Apollo program, some of the miniaturization and integration of solid state components would not have happened. Simply because there was no commercial incentive to do so. We tend to think a "free market" is the best driver of technology advances, but it is not... because it always leads to a local maxima (or minima depending on your point of view).

Also there was a big push for digital control theory, and software engineering... which again would not have happened sans the Apollo program.

[immoderate]

88. Bullets are ballistic missiles too. Baseballs even. Look it up.

Everybody wants to edjumacate me. :crazy:

Integrated circuits were developed in the late 50s. That's before the space program. When the Minuteman missile came along, it was an early mass production platform for computer chips, which were also used in the Apollo. I think the space program depended more on the availability of chips than vice versa.

Further miniaturization, the LSICs and the VLSICs of the eighties were after the Apollo program!

It's really a stretch to say that software development depended on the Apollo program. That's like saying Math was developed for the Apollo program.

--imm

[Duppers]

62. AGREED.

nt

[Mike 03]

13. My dream is that we shoot for MARS. There is not a lot to be proud of nowadays in the USA.

It would be both awesome and frightenign to shoot for Mars.

We did the Moon. No point in revisiting that, and the Shuttle is a boring spotlight for high school science experiments with rodents and worms.

Let's move on. Mars.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Not going back to moon is a mistake

it is a natural way station to Mars.

Also now that they found water there a good place to learn how to build a self sustaining habitat. Oh and for that they should recruit submariners by the way.

[Duppers]

60. +1000 nt

nt

[Mike 03]

15. Oh, and Kick Sky High. NT

[havocmom]

18. a lot, actually

but I am still pissed about that Tang crap my mom made us drink cuz 'those NASA people know what they're doing!'

x(

Really, when I was a kid, those new astro-naught chaps were some of my heroes. So were the engineers (weird family, what can I say). I recall my grampa pissing and moaning about 'spending all that money in space...' Mom would rattle of s list of some of the wonderful things the space program was bringing to our life (and Teflon, but hey, every agency makes mistakes ;) ) and then remind him "The money isn't spend IN SPACE! The money is spent HERE, and it makes jobs, new inventions, new products, better ways to do things AND EDUCATION!"

I wasn't the only one who loved those NASA flyers and geeks!

One of the big things I think we all got from NASA has been potential for better medical care. Broken delivery system aside, we have much better diagnostics and NASA researchers probably brought a lot of that into being. We have more comfortable bedding materials too, and sleep is important to health.

Plus, we have some fantastic photos that give us perspective. Which flyer was it who took a picture of the beautiful earth, then another facing out into the void, saying 'It's a long way to the next watering hole'? I always figured if we could send some world leaders up there to get the gut twisting perspective of what a fragile and beautiful place our little oasis was, maybe they would work harder for win/win solutions to the petty problems which keep people fighting each other.

It is a long way to the next watering hole.

[Tailormyst]

21. I loved Tang

it was the rare "junk food" that we sometimes got when camping or traveling. I grew up in a junk food free zone. Yet oddly enough, I have battled weight problems my whole life.

[havocmom]

24. Best Tang moment for me...

Mom was NOT a morning person. Sunday mornings where for moving slow and sipping coffee while SLOWLY reading the paper.

Gramps wanted OJ. We didn't have any and he fussed at Mom. She was only one sip into first cup of java, but she got up to solve the juice flap. Got out a big 16 oz glass, spooned in the correct amount of that blasted Tang powder. Picked up the water pitcher from the fridge.... and poured it into.... the Tang jar.

I danced for joy. THAT jar of ick was history!

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. We had TANG I think twice

we saw them commercials, and of course brothers asked for it. I mean the American Astronauts had it.

So mom bought a bottle... a single bottle that lasted for years until finally it was thrown away.

We had very good OJ... and other FRESH fruit.

[havocmom]

29. Mom was a good person, but WAY to impressed with 'new' as marketing

I do owe Tang a debt though. All that Tang available at our house is why I learned to appreciate tea at a very young age!

Because of Mom's outgoing nature and enthusiasm, we did get astronauts AND Sea-Lab (remember that or are you too young) scientists/crew members to do special programs at our school. We were in some odd special classes with deeper studies than the usual curriculum for most schools. She got to meet lots of interesting science pioneers in the course of her work sometimes (Long Beach Naval Station, way back when it was huge). She was never shy about asking some pretty cool VIPs to come 'talk to some bright kids'.

But that damned TANG x(

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I do remember Sea Lab indeed

:-)

[havocmom]

35. The kids at school were SOOOOO impressed

One of the crew brought along a good sized canister of liquid nitrogen.... and a big grocery bag of veggies!

Clean up at the podium!

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. RLOL

[Tailormyst]

19. I think of all the benefits we may gain from the research and development

I think the goal of mars is great but its the things we will learn attempting to get there that may well change the world.

[FightingIrish]

23. All of the technological fringe benefits aside,

they have really given me some memorable moments and valid reasons to take great pride in this country. There have been some devastating tragedies too but I still believe that we need to work toward the next astronomical Everest. Migration to other solar systems seems like fantasy now but we live in a fantastic world that a few generations past could not have imagined or comprehended. We are constantly reminded that we inhabit a very fragile lifeboat in the vastness of space. Why not look at where we might go next.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I suspect that is the impetus of life

and I also suspect that we humans, or our descendants, will leave this world... first to other parts of the system.

And perhaps what we think is impossible today, breaking the speed of light, will become possible as we learn more about nature.

[lxlxlxl]

28. Yeah o.k., its SUCCESSFUL STATE FUNDED SCIENCE but it thrives in REPUBLICAN / ANTI GOVMT states

answer why Florida and Houston deserve all of that money and i'm with you. Clear Lake, where I grew up, was a Tom Delay district, despite the fact that the place wouldnt even exist if it wasnt a gift from LBJ. I dont know enough about Flordia, but god knows there have been enough RW crazies to come out of that state to fill a diaper or two.

[Rosco T.]

32. Florida is an ideal launch site...

this thing called "THE OCEAN" that they launch over... with lots of open space in case of a tragedy or accident.

Or would you rather had pieces of the Challenger land in your back yard.

Clear Lake/Houston were set up long damn time ago.. you know when Texas was LBJ's territory..

Stop trying to hang REPUBLICAN on everything.... use SCIENCE and rational thought.

[FarCenter]

53. Cape Canaveral was set up as the "long range proving ground" after White Sands was too small

The first launches from Cape Canaveral were in July of 1950 by the Army.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. It has to do with take off

and it is easier closer to equator. Well Florida is the best place they could find swamp land to do that.

And NASA is spread to the four winds... or when exactly did JPL move out of California, for example. Yes Voyager and Mars Landers were run out of JPL in California.

On a funny line a Texan was going over how if they broke and went away, they'd keep NASA... I was laughing at the ignorance mostly.

But seriously NASA facilities are spread to the four winds... just that the two best known centers are in Texas and Florida. But hells bells, NASA has facilities on MAUI and the outside emergency landing strip at Oahu is in Hawai'i

[Posteritatis]

43. Physics decided Florida's the best launch site in the US, not politics. (nt)

[WilliamPitt]

72. (facepalm)

The reason to abandon space exploration is you don't like the politics in two states?

Jesus wept.

[lxlxlxl]

73. note the word successful

im not anti space travel, but am actually more interested in climatology and deepsea exploration. nasa could be retooled for that.

i also dont understand why 'pro-space' people pretend this isnt state funded science. it works. we should get our shit together and do more of it in other areas, and be honest about it.

[county worker]

31. I once saw a list of things we take for granted that were developed for the moon program.

The main one I remember is freeze dried food.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. And the list is LOOOONGGGGG

The traction splint I used for years, the aluminum grade was developed for the space program.

And the IV pump that ran without batteries was developed first for NASA... in case of a medical emergency, they had this problem that you have no gravity. Well that thing works great for rescue too.

[tavalon]

37. There is next to nothing in the modern home that wasn't

accelerated into being by the space program.

I'm not a NASA basher. I'm sad at the thought that we might get rid of it on our way down the toilet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. And too many round these parts will celebrate

I don't think we will get rid of it though... way too good

[enlightenment]

39. Thanks, nadin. Well said. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. You welcome

[customerserviceguy]

41. Y'know that little GPS device in your car?

Think how much fossil fuel is NOT burned by people who know where the hell they're going. Mine saves me it's original price every single year.

No satellites, no GPS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Oh absolutly, we love thee GPS

even if I have not gone and gotten one yet. (No need mostly)

[FarCenter]

52. GPS is a system developed by the military

It doesn't appear that NASA had anything to do with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System

[Stand and Fight]

70. Good grief....

SATELLITES are used for GPS. Satellites make global positioning systems possible. Satellites are a direct result of research into space exploration.

[FarCenter]

71. Satellites owe nearly nothing to manned spaceflight programs

Satellites were developed for military reconnaisance and both military and commercial communications purposes. Early launches used rockets and systems developed by the military.

http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/fall99/coffey/history.htm

See also the National Reconnaissance Office, which is the major player in satellites. http://www.nro.gov/

[liberation]

87. That is a very intellectually dishonest POV

dude...

[Raskolnik]

44. They put a man on the goddamn moon without the aid of what we would consider a computer

I don't think any of us born after about 1970 or so truly appreciate what that means in terms of human accomplishment.

[PurgatoryPeak]

66. Clap!!!

:yourock:

[pipi_k]

45. Velcro n/t

[FarCenter]

51. Are Tang, Teflon, and Velcro NASA spinoffs?

Tang, Teflon, and Velcro, are not spinoffs of the Space Program. General Foods developed Tang in 1957, and it has been on supermarket shelves since 1959. In 1962, when astronaut John Glenn performed eating experiments in orbit, Tang was selected for the menu, launching the powdered drink’s heightened public awareness. NASA also raised the celebrity status of Teflon, a material invented for DuPont in 1938, when the Agency applied it to heat shields, space suits, and cargo hold liners. Velcro was used during the Apollo missions to anchor equipment for astronauts’ convenience in zero gravity situations. Although it is a Swiss invention from the 1940s, it has since been associated with the Space Program.

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinfaq.htm#spinfaq12

[Duppers]

61. nope.

The hook-and-loop fastener was invented in 1941 by Swiss engineer, George de Mestral who lived in Commugny, Switzerland.

[polly7]

47. The space programs around the world have greatly contributed

to society and I think it's fantastic, but, minor quibble .... Velcro was invented in Switzerland by an engineer named George de Mestral, who while hunting with his dog, noticed the burrs that were attached had tiny hooks .... and who then spent years developing the technique. I had to look up his name, but remember being taught this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Just like TANG, there are a few things that we think were developed

by the Space program, that were not.

What Velcro do was come into it's own, both in the use of US Airforce Fighter Pilot suits, and NASA. Would you believe it, at one time it was actually classified secret.

[polly7]

56. It was already being used so I don't get how it could be classified

secret, but no matter. I think what's happening on the ISS is pretty cool. http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/iss/default.asp Good to see so many countries sharing and contributing to projects and research that hopefully some day, will benefit all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. What is classified secret at times has little to do with reality

serious.

[polly7]

63. True.

"By trial and error, he realized that nylon when sewn under infrared light, formed tough hooks for the burr side of the fastener. This finished the design, patented in 1955. The inventor formed Velcro Industries to manufacture his invention. Mestral was selling over sixty million yards of Velcro per year." http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa091297.htm Doesn't seem like it was ever a secret, really.

[Rage Inc.]

49. K & FUCKING R!

[bullwinkle428]

55. A teabagger was protesting the budget cuts to NASA at the same time

they were doing their standard "teabagging thing" yesterday!!! The cognitive dissonance...it really does burn!

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Now that is a funny mental

and you are right, it does hurt.

maybe it is time to call the nomex protected, breathing aparatus carrying Fire fighter (both developed by oh NASA)

[HuckleB]

59. And that teabagger probably ignores NASA data on global warming, too!

[iamthebandfanman]

67. in definite decline.

peak and fall.

it happens to every culture/society ... eventually ;)


hell, we even have blood sports to watch on TV ... where we can watch people beat each other to a bloody bloody mess.

people love to act like there havent been major scientific advancements from the space program...

[Johonny]

74. acutally the DU argument is man vs unmanned

very few argue for no space program. Which is why the this thread is oddly misleading.

While technology came out of the manned program. Much of the same technology would have been created anyways had that money been spent on more constructive science goals. Like microprocessors. Sure it helps on manned craft, but it also helps a lot on unmanned craft. Our manned vehicles use very old technology computers. Things like that will always be pushed for space because person or no weight costs will always be a factor. The actual science created by manned missions themselves is very few. Particularly for the last 20-30 years. It's no mystery to those in science fields. Yet clearly is a mystery for many Americans raised on Apollo type missions. As for the importance of unmanned space vehicles well GPS, maps, weather satellites, Earth temperatures, Gravity measurements, ice coverage, ozone concentrations, land use changes,... the amount of science generate that actually effects your life is pretty obvious. We will be measuring CO2 concentrations soon as well. This is why almost no one seriously think the space program is useless.

The US space program is very strong. The loss of the shuttle is not really significant as it was only 10 % of current missions in space and ARES was hardly a very exciting launch vehicle. We have many exciting on-going space mission and launch vehicle options. Our space program is in no way in decline. The Chinese are gearing up to try to walk around on the moon. We are driving around Mars, circling Saturn, and flying to Pluto. Nuf' said.

[liberation]

82. "We" all those missions which you cite at the end involve heavy international cooperation

... and have been seriously undermined by budgetary cuts, esp. the sample return mission from mars.

I worked at JPL over a decade ago, and as good as unmanned missions are. For certain aspects, manned space flight yields orders of magnitude more scientific results than unmanned one (at least in the short term).

I don't think it is an either/or proposition. Also, I don't think most people understand that our exponential growth as a species is going to make this planet utterly unable to sustain us in a few decades. I am not talking centuries, but decades. If we need to survive, we need to understand we need to spill over. Now, we can laugh at the notion of manned space travel and conquest, and continue gracing at our navels worrying about something as abstract and irrelevant in the big scheme of things as "capital." Or we can do some thing about it already. Time to evolve...

[tsuki]

69. Tang. nt

[4lbs]

75. NASA's budget is 1/48 that of the DoD, and just 1/2 percent of the total 2010 Federal budget.

The 2010 US Federal Budget, comparing the various spending allocations.
NASA compared to other departments.

[Vegetarianist]

76. 800 billion dollars is how much we've spent on NASA

of course things have been invented. If you throw that much money at an agency, something will come from it. I would just rather the money go to the pure intention of creating new inventions. Or something more important, like ending poverty.

[4lbs]

79. Where did you get that from?

The total amount spent on NASA from 1958 through 2008 was $416 billion.

[hunter]

80. My grandfather was an engineer on the Apollo project.

He wasn't the easiest guy to figure out, these days you might classify him as: "Engineer, Aspergers, and Eccentric."

His work on the Apollo project was a professional accomplishment he was intensely proud of and quite a bit of his love for engineering rubbed off on me.

Thanks NASA for employing my grandpa!

[GreenPartyVoter]

85. That. Is. So. Cool!

[Blue_In_AK]

81. NASA fed our family when I was a teenager growing up.

My father was a contract negotiator with the Apollo project in Houston from 1962 to 1969.

[liberation]

84. I can't believe no one has mentioned satellite communications and packet switched networks....

... without which the internet, never mind DU, would not be possible.

Granted the research was also heavily subsidized by DARPA (DoD research branch). But a big deal of advances and research on reliable communication networks was due to NASA research on communicating with very distant satellites.


I always laugh at the irony of people bitching about NASA's budget, or socialistic programs for that matter, using the internet to do so.


Aaaaah, the curse of us scientists. Spending our lives working insane hours for ever reducing budgets, in order to improve and enable the lives of those who can't wait to spit in our faces fast enough. It takes a special kind of masochist I guess...

[RedCappedBandit]

86. They have provided me with mind blowing pictures. nt

[protocol rv]

89. Grasping for credits....you seem to be

Computers weren't invented by the US space program. The miniaturization was driven by private industry's desire to pack more processing capacity in a smaller commercial package. Claiming such a credit for the manned space program is deceitful. As for hydroponics, it's worthless. If you can't find something more useful for the Space Station and the Space Shuttle, then I will continue to say they are huge wasteful programs. A lot more research could have been done focusing on drive systems and robotic probes.