The SEIU is forming a third party in North Carolina

[nadinbrzezinski]

this is a LABOR party.

Keep watching, this will be interesting.

Oh and we have had attempts at getting a Labor Party in the United States in the past.

[mmonk]

1. Expect some negative reaction in posting this information.

I got attacked for it. Just letting you know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Oh I expect it

but it is not my fault Mathews covered it.

(And I could go into the history of those efforts going back to oh 1820)

[Forkboy]

2. K&R

[WorseBeforeBetter]

4. K&R, from North Carolina... (n/t)

[NorthCarolina]

26. +1

[gateley]

5. I somewhat caught the SEIU guy on with Matthews, and he kept referring to

a person who assured them of his support -- but when it came time for the vote, pfffft. No support to be found. I don't blame him/them at all. Who was the elected official he was referring to, do you recall?

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Skykell if memory serves

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sherman A1]

7. K&R

This will be interesting to watch!

[Union Yes]

8. Solidarity! K&R.

:patriot:

[mdmc]

9. We have the Working Families Party in NYS

I vote the WFP line most of the time..

[xchrom]

10. Recommend

[SocialistLez]

11. I wish them luck! Is there no Green Party in NC? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. What Does This Serve

What does this serve beside splitting the left of center vote making it easier for Republicants to win?

[Greyhound]

25. To tell the Democratic Party that they continue to pander to corporations at their own risk.

Currently, workers are going to get fucked no matter who is elected, so this puts the ball in the Democrat's court.

[Chulanowa]

54. As much as a support this movement, you're dead wrong

There's always talk of "sending a message" but you know what? it never does. All this does is split the liberals in North Carolina. If, IF a majority switched fro mthe Dems to the new labor party, that would be a message. But I doubt it would ever happen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. The same role it served in other periods

when the two parties ignored labor. Perhaps readying some history is in order.

[Fading Captain]

39. It serves notice: Serve us (the people) or them (Big Business)

And choose at risk of your own survival

Kudos.

[Mudoria]

13. DOA

[marmar]

14. I'm of two POVs on this.....

On one hand, I'm elated to see a party emerge to challenge the corporatized Democratic Party. BUT.....

In a state that barely went blue in '08, what could the potential fallout be?

[Mudoria]

15. It will not be good.

Why they picked NC I'm not sure about. Most of the state is red and virulently anti-union. Those that think because Obama squeaked out a win in 2008 here and that means the state in now blue are deluding themselves. NC leans Republican in national elections and that is the sad fact. If a 3rd party representing Labor takes root here I would be very happy but even more surprised that it did.

[Truth2Tell]

58. They will have the most influence in a swing state.

Good choice, IMO.

[slackmaster]

16. Stupid

:argh:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. If they go about it right--winning the trust of voters in local elections

before trying to run statewide candidates, OR if they run a very charismatic and plain-spoken candidate who can appeal to ordinary people--they just might make some impact.

Lord knows if I lived in an area where the choice was between a Republicanite and a DINO, I'd be looking for alternatives.

[supernova]

18. Good luck with that

There were some hellacious fights between unions and law enforcement here during the 20s and 30s, esp in the cotton mills. It's a chapter in our history that doesn't get much attention now. And unions have tried over the succeeding years to form here. The "Norma Rae" episode being the latest.

http://www.learnnc.org/lp/pages/1929

SEIU may be thinking that they can sign up our new Spanish-speaking neighbors. That population has exploded here since the early 1990s and they often are the last to know what their workplace rights are, even if they are illegal.

I wish they could. It would be great to have a viable third party, if only to pull the Dems back to the left. I can see it working in traditionally liberal areas like here (Triangle) and Asheville.

Stay tuned.

[Bluenorthwest]

19. Good for them.

At some point, being lied to and betrayed will have consequences. And it seems for them, that point has come.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

21. If the national union doesn't squash this then I no longer support them. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Unions are never impressed with the whining of fair weather

'supporters'. If you take your support away from Unions for expressing their own political will, you never supported them in the first place, and those who strike and strive for progress are used to that.
It would be elucidating to hear the ways you have supported that Union. Are you a member? A donor? Do you write letters on the behalf of their members? What support have you actually given that you could now refuse to give?

[LoZoccolo]

24. They no solidarity to me, I no solidarity to them. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Apparently that's the same standard applied by the SEIU.

And, we who sometimes vote for third parties.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Well perhaps it is time for blue dog democrats

to realize that the base is not only corporate.

[amborin]

32. Wow! it would be despotic and autocratic for the national union to quash its locals' activism

[saracat]

40. Wow. So the unions have no right to support themselves? The Dems have

broken nearly all their promises to them, and you think they shouldn't fight for themselves???? SIEU supported Obama more than any other union.They even caved on HCR forfeiting some of their hard fought benefots when he asked. And you think they should just STFU? They are looking to elect folks who will represent them and to send a message that they want Progressives and will no longer be abused. I cannot see how anyone could be offended by that.One should be proud of people fighting for their rights.

[LoZoccolo]

46. They have a right to vote for whoever they want to. n/t

[Forkboy]

41. LOL

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Good. I hope it spreads to other states.

[amborin]

31. Good news! maybe progressives will have some representation after all?

[LetsgoWings13]

33. wouldn't that split our vote?

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. The way the Union sees it, we are screwed either way

and reality is that the New Deal Legislation did not originate in the DNC, but the Socialist Party...

And we are at a point of our history where third parties will be needed to put that exact pressure. Otherwise you are stuck with two PRO CORPORATE parties

[LetsgoWings13]

35. so we need the third party to break up the current party to make it better in the future?

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Read a little US History

that pressure helps one of the two parties wake up and realize the coalition they need to take power needs to court labor.

So yes, perhaps that is what it will take.

Not popular, but hey history is not popular.

But read this again, THIRD PARTIES have had a critical role in moving the social agenda forwards. Whether it was the Grangers, or the Socialists, or hell's bells even the communists

[LoZoccolo]

37. Nope. Please see: 2000.

If it worked then, you wouldn't be complaining now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Ah yes, because we all know the USSC had no role

in the 2000 election.

Please do point to ANY OTHER intervention of this type from the Court in US History... you mean you can't?

By the way, what I wrote stands. New Deal legislation like oh Social Security DID NOT start or take form in the Democratic Party. It was part of the Socialist Party Plank for over two decades.

[LoZoccolo]

43. That doesn't mean that actually voting for the party that made it up will work.

Or even that the Socialist Party made it up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. So history and all it's evidence that Third Parties actually help

push the country forward matter little.

I know some folks, especially Neo liberals, woudl love to just get rid, legally that is, of all third parties. Until that happens, the historic fact remains... THEY WORK. And by the way, the reason they appropriated Social Security was because them socialists were getting votes... but I am proof positive you knew that. Or that they also had the left run as DEMOCRATS once it was clear that was the direction things were moving.

Sorry, history fails you on this, by leaps and bounds

[LoZoccolo]

47. You keep talking about "history" without actually citing any. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I have, and you keep citing the EXCEPTION of Bush v Gore

we know you are allergic to anybody but neo liberals... and that is ok. DLC all the way huh?

By the way we are at one of those moments in the US when we may see one party go away, and it will have to be replaced. That also means one of those historic switcharoos. Or you think the GOP was always this regressive and the DNC this liberal?

[LoZoccolo]

53. Help me out here.

Give me a hint of which one is it.

1. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8158537#8158619
2. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8158537#8161674
3. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8158537#8162148
4. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8158537#8164679
5. Any other part where you cite history.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Since you insist on a trashing

On the Grange movement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Grange_of_the_Order_of_Patrons_of_Husbandry

http://www.allsands.com/history/people/eugenevdebsbi_avg_gn.htm

http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/laborhall/evd.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age

Now do you want me to go ahead and also give you some JSTORs citations? Since at the moment doing some research into the history of Labor here you go

Sons of the Fathers: Temperance Reformers and the Legacy of the American Revolution Author(s): William Breitenbach Source: Journal of the Early Republic, Vol. 3, No. 1 (Spring, 1983), pp. 69-82 Published by: University of Pennsylvania Press on behalf of the Society for Historians of the Early American Republic
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3122752
Accessed: 15/04/2010 17:29

Anarchism and American Labor Author(s): Paul Buhle Source: International Labor and Working-Class History, No. 23 (Spring, 1983), pp. 21-34 Published by: Cambridge University Press on behalf of International Labor and Working- Class, Inc Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/27671439
Accessed: 15/04/2010 17:08

Labor and the Government: A Comparative Historical Perspective Author(s): Gaston V. Rimlinger Source: The Journal of Economic History, Vol. 37, No. 1, The Tasks of Economic History (Mar., 1977), pp. 210-225 Published by: Cambridge University Press on behalf of the Economic History Association Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2119457
Accessed: 15/04/2010 16:22

Labor Struggles, New Social Movements, and America's Favorite Pastime: New York Workers Take on New Era Cap Company Author(s): Victoria Carty Source: Sociological Perspectives, Vol. 49, No. 2 (Summer, 2006), pp. 239-259
Published by: University of California Press
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/4138794
Accessed: 15/04/2010 16:38

What Has Happened to the US Labor Movement? Union Decline and Renewal Author(s): Dan Clawson and Mary Ann Clawson Source: Annual Review of Sociology, Vol. 25 (1999), pp. 95-119 Published by: Annual Reviews
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/223499
Accessed: 15/04/2010 16:33

I could go on, all night.. You sure you want to do that?

Oh and of course from Politics Review, an article from Texeira on voting patterns in the US and the decline of a WHITE voting block as of last year's volume. You sure you want to keep this up?

This effort by the SEIU follows a LONG tradition whether you like it or not, and spare me the Nader crap. I know YOU HATE anybody standing for themselves. By the way see that switcharoo I refer to. You see SON the GOP was for land reform and the ten hour day back in 1852. This son was part of the Worker's Party Platform since on 1824... you know who was for suppressing that land reform and the ten hour day? The Democratic Party. How is that for fun? What do you think will happen if the GOP joins the whigs in the dustbin of history? THINK for once instead of repeating crap...

[LoZoccolo]

59. Yeah, yeah, I know there was a Socialist Party and still is.

You throw all these citations out and don't tell me how they relate to what we're talking about. As I said before, I would expect other people to have thought of ideas before the Democratic Party; we're talking about how a splinter threat has unambiguously brought about change. Where has a splinter of people left a party in one election, and then the party was able to gain them back in the next by co-opting the third party's platform? There's so much history of it that you should be able to tell me where that happened.

Unless you want to tell me that it happened with Kerry? Did he run significantly to the left of Gore to get all those Nader votes back?

PS you said that you already had tied the history to the topic; why don't you just give me that? As I said before, you gotta help me out because I couldn't find it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. I think we're done

Nader this, Nader That, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...

Have a good life

[LoZoccolo]

62. lol n/t

[skipos]

42. 1912 is another example. And Greens still tries to defeat Wellstone and Lamont.

Democrats deserve to have 3rd parties running against them on the left. It is just too bad that doings so rarely makes Democrats move to the left. All it seems to do is let Repubs win.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. It actually has the desired effect

it just is less efficient than it would be if we had oh Proportional Representation in this country. I mean Lieberman and Kucinich would not have to share the same party ever again, and yes I know Lieberman is nominally independent but he was a dem at one time.

Ok some proportional representation can get really messy... but still, (see Italy)

[LoZoccolo]

48. Is that why Nader got 3% of the vote in 2000 and less than 1% in 2004? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Think WHIG... oh wait that means

looking for a history book or two.

And if you only think Nader you miss another oh 230 years of history... more if I include the pre-revolutionary period.

[LoZoccolo]

55. The Whigs were suffering staggering electoral losses; Democrats aren't.

Plus a lot of Republicans were just former Whigs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. And who is talking of democrats? Oh wait all is about the democrats

by the way many of the new GOPers back in 1852 were also Democrats and Independents... Surprised?

[LoZoccolo]

60. Not really since the parties back then were largely centered around regional concerns. n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

50. SEIU is connected with the charter school movement

Just be careful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. I just report what I heard on the tweet show