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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 04:05 PM
Original message
Maybe it's Time to Start Getting Scared
Shadi Hamdi of Democracy Arsenal often strikes me as naive and forgiving of centrism and conservatism. I can usually tell which are his pieces on my blog feeder, which doesn't usually ID the poster. They're usually whiny, apologetic and defensive about the war. Totally unlike most of his colleagues on DA. But this piece, I thought, was pretty good, and I never guessed it was Hamid until I clicked on the link:

http://www.democracyarsenal.org/2007/05/maybe_its_time_.html


Posted by Shadi Hamid

I'm not one of those people who likes to be alarmist and call Republicans "fascists" and other such things. Unlike some of my friends, I don't think that they have any secret plans to annul the Bill of Rights and destroy democracy as we know it. That kind of alarmism doesn't get us anywhere. Or at least that's what I thought until I started reading about Rudy Giuliani.

There's a big debate on whether or not Islamist parties, like the Muslim Brotherhood, are normatively committed to democracy and the rule of law. It's a valid question. However, it seems to me that a much more relevant question, at least for Americans, is whether today's Republican party is normatively committed to democracy. I'm genuinely afraid after hearing this audio of Guiliani going berserk on a caller to his radio show. Then I read Michael Wolff's cogent, persuasive case that Guiliani is all of the following: unstable, insane, charismatic, depressive, able to speak without notes, susceptible to mood swings, an incorrible philanderer, doesn't talk to his kids, has an ambivalent relationship to truth and reality, has ties to the mob, and is in perpetual need of 24-hour attention, like a little kid on Ritalin. Then I read this:

There was Rudy's extra-legal plan to set aside the 2001 mayoral election (after his term limit had been reached, so he couldn't run again) and, by legislative acclamation (thwarted only at the last minute), extend his term.

So, yes, he's an autocrat living in a democracy. Would he still be an autocrat if he was President? Um, yes. But Rudy's Rudy, right? And then I stumble upon this Victor Davis Hanson quote, via Andrew. Andrew got pretty worked up, but after a I read the paragraph in question, I couldn't figure out what the big deal was. So I read it again more carefully:

All these Democrats now, for three or four years, have not just opposed George Bush, and not just opposed neoconservative idealism, but they've demonized it to such a degree that they've almost made Bush the equivalent of the enemy. And Bush has a lot of supporters in and out of the military. So now they think that they're elected, people like yourself and I are going to jump back up and say you know what? They're the president, we're going to support them at every opportunity. We probably will, but there’s going to be a lot of us who won't, because they're going to say they nitpicked, they were counterproductive, they wanted the people in Iraq fighting us to win. It's almost as if you burn down the house, and then you want to reoccupy it, or if you destroy the system of bipartisan dialogue, and then suddenly when you're president, you say let's restore bipartisan dialogue. But they've so demonized people on the conservative side of the aisle, that it's going to be very hard for them to create unity.

And then I thought to myself: wait, a second, And Bush has a lot of supporters in and out of the military. Can someone tell me what this means, cause it sounds pretty scary? Look, I'm going to give VDH the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't mean anything by this. But how much longer before some prominent conservative stops being PC, comes out with it, and proclaims their support for a military-coup style intervention in the event the Democrats win 2008? And, yes, maybe I'm getting worked up, but this is exactly the kind of thing that Turkish secularists say, when faced with the prospect that the Islamist-leaning AK Party will win the Presidency (to go along with their legislative majority).



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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. If that happens then
it is the end of the world as we know it. :scared:
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Right.
The American military can't even occupy Iraq. What makes you think it could occupy the United States?
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Just the fact that they would try a military coup
should send shivers down your spine. Whether they could make it work is another matter.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. No, it doesn't send shivers down my spine.
It's juvenile nonsense. The US military would never support a coup, and it would never work if they did. Quite frankly, it's an insult to the military to suggest that they would. It is silly in the extreme. Rudy is scary enough without inventing nonsense about him supporting a military coup. The only person who I've seen go anywhere near close to suggesting that, in a purely theoretical construct are people on DU who think the military should overthrow Bush, and that jackass from the Hoover Institution.

You want scary? Try a Bernie Kerik clone as Secretery of Defense.
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Frankly yibbiehobba
These neocons are and have been chipping away at our liberties here since they took office. They do have ideologues that share their mentality in the military. They have been pushing their brand of governance for 6 years now. I simply can't put it out of the realm of possibilities given everything they've done up to now. They are fanatical in the extreme. If it seems like juvenile silliness to you, that's an opinion you're entitled to. I will continue to keep my guard up. Again would it work? I don't think it likely but I would not put it past them to give it the old College try once they lose the White House. They don't play fair these guys.
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. I have been scared
for quite a while. I think the DemoKitties (rather than the DemoCats) are just too obliging, too sympathetic, TOO co-dependent with the GOP.

Why is that?

Easy answer = they are "on the take", just like the Repubs. They are owned, Lock Stock & Barrel by their corporate Masters, just like the Grand Ole party.
But they are LESS owned; they are LESS corrupt so there's still hope. And I think at this point, they are emerging as the party of the people in Washington.

At least, I hope so.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Because that's probably true,
I'm inclined to believe Hillary is the MOST owned of the Dem candidates that are running at this point. That's one reason I don't trust her for a minute.
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Jensen Donating Member (866 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I have felt that way now for awhile!
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. And don't forget,
pops and mom think of Bill as a "son"..From the moment I heard that comment, they've given him a nice piece of the action/$$....And, don't forget that Hillary was a "Goldwater Girl"..
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Strawman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. They only seem committed to "strong leaders"
"it seems to me that a much more relevant question, at least for Americans, is whether today's Republican party is normatively committed to democracy"

That's spot on. And the answer is clearly no.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Please see this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=801924

entitled "Prominent conservatives suggest military coup of US to regain power!"

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-03-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I thought of that thread when I read this.
Bastidges.
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