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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 11:45 AM
Original message
Nine Myths About Socialism in the United States
Bill Quigley's blog
Nine Myths About Socialism in the United States
by Bill Quigley | April 10, 2010 - 3:22pm
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/node/27943

Glenn Beck and other far right multi-millionaires are claiming that the US is hot on the path towards socialism. Part of their claim is that the US is much more generous and supportive of our working and poor people than other countries. People may wish it was so, but it is not.

As Senator Patrick Moynihan used to say "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But everyone is not entitled to their own facts."

The fact is that the US is not really all that generous to our working and poor people compared to other countries.

Consider the US in comparison to the rest of the 30 countries that join the US in making up the OECD -- the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. These 30 countries include Canada and most comparable European countries but also include some struggling countries like Czech Republic, Greece, Hungary, Korea, Mexico, Poland, Slovak Republic, and Turkey.

When you look at how the US compares to these 30 countries, the hot air myths about the US government going all out towards socialism sort of disappear into thin air. Here are some examples of myths that do not hold up.

Myth #1. The US government is involved in class warfare attacking the rich to lift up the poor.

There is a class war going on all right. But it is the rich against the rest of us and the rich are winning. The gap between the rich and everyone else is wider in the US than any of the 30 other countries surveyed. In fact, the top 10% in the US have a higher annual income than any other country. And the poorest 10% in the US are below the average of the other OECD countries. The rich in the U.S. have been rapidly leaving the middle class and poor behind since the 1980s.

Myth #2. The US already has the greatest health care system in the world.

Infant mortality in the US is 4th worst among OECD countries -- better only than Mexico, Turkey and the Slovak Republic.

Myth #3. There is less poverty in the US than anywhere.

Child poverty in the US, at over 20% or one out of every five kids, is double the average of the 30 OECD countries.

Myth #4. The US is generous in its treatment of families with children.

The US ranks in the bottom half of countries in terms of financial benefits for families with children. Over half of the 30 OECD countries pay families with children cash benefits regardless of the income of the family. Some among those countries (e.g. Austria, France and Germany) pay additional benefits if the family is low-income, or one of the parents is unemployed.

Myth #5. The US is very supportive of its workers.

The US gives no paid leave for working mothers having children. Every single one of the other 30 OECD countries has some form of paid leave. The US ranks dead last in this. Over two thirds of the countries give some form of paid paternity leave. The US also gives no paid leave for fathers.

In fact, it is only workers in the US who have no guaranteed days of paid leave at all. Korea is the next lowest to the US and it has a minimum of 8 paid annual days of leave. Most of the other 30 countries require a minimum of 20 days of annual paid leave for their workers.

Myth #6. Poor people have more chance of becoming rich in the US than anywhere else.

Social mobility (how children move up or down the economic ladder in comparison with their parents) in earnings, wages and education tends to be easier in Australia, Canada and Nordic countries like Denmark, Norway, and Finland, than in the US. That means more of the rich stay rich and more of the poor stay poor here in the US.

Myth #7. The US spends generously on public education.

In terms of spending for public education, the US is just about average among the 30 countries of the OECD. Educational achievement of US children, however, is 7th worst in the OECD. On public spending for childcare and early education, the US is in the bottom third.

Myth #8. The US government is redistributing income from the rich to the poor.

There is little redistribution of income by government in the U.S. in part because spending on social benefits like unemployment and family benefits is so low. Of the 30 countries in the OECD, only in Korea is the impact of governmental spending lower.

Myth #9. The US generously gives foreign aid to countries across the world.

The US gives the smallest percentage of aid of any of the developed countries in the OECD. In 2007 the US was tied for last with Greece. In 2008, we were tied for last with Japan.

Despite the opinions of right wing folks, the facts say the US is not on the path towards socialism.

But if socialism means the US would go down the path of being more generous with our babies, our children, our working families, our pregnant mothers, and our sisters and brothers across the world, I think we could all appreciate it.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R...
Only nine?
:kick: & R

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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. More truth about Socialism
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/42448437.html">Here, Socialism meant honest, frugal government
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/89804422.html">Socialism before it was a four-letter word
http://www.expressmilwaukee.com/blog-3038-john-gurda-on-how-the-socialists-saved-milwaukee.html">John Gurda on How the Socialists Saved Milwaukee
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Ysabel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. yes...
i have those links somewhere in my archives / really great / thanks for adding them to this thread...
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you!
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. From yesterday and earlier today:
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I missed those but it sure is a popular subject n/t
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thanks for posting this
I did not see those threads and as long as the message gets out is what is important.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. That is true, thanks n/t
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
31. Whoever posts largely determines the level of participation, or lack thereof
Mine was the 2nd ;)
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. I think its a matter of timing...
and luck. I was on the other side of the same thing.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Are these even myths?
I can't believe that more than 20% of the US electorate would agree with those statements.
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ahem...
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Now THAT is a K&R!! Well done! At least, I'm assuming you came up with that.
Great idea!
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47of74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yes
Took me about ten minutes to create it in GIMP and another minute or so to upload to Photobucket.
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Ysabel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. grin...
:D
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. Great Original Post!
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harry_pothead Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. ooh, I have some more!
% leftists are unpopular and unamerican; by definition they can never win an honest, fair election
% actually, both the Socialist and Communist parties sent city, state, and national representatives, and had electoral presence and a strong showing in activism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_J._Davis
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Here's another one...
The poor are lazy and do not want to work their way out of poverty.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. The other night I actually got asked if I "prefer" to live in my car.
The ignorance abounds.

The ignorance does NOT amuse.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. That is another myth...
Edited on Sun Apr-11-10 03:06 PM by dajoki
People think that homeless people have mental problems and would rather live on the streets. When the truth is the percentage of homeless people with mental disorders is less than society as a whole. The problem is DECENT affordable housing.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. The DICK Cheeeeeney, on the other hand, is considered sane.
:crazy:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. Of course they don't,
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 10:01 AM by Enthusiast
who wants to work when the government steals money from the hard working wealthy and gives it to the lazy bums?



















:hide: :sarcasm:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. There is going to have to be an actual CAMPAIGN to get the truth understood.
Unless and until there is a concerted, powerful effort to counter these lies, NOTHING is going to change.

There are ads for products, there are campaigns for cancer, Earth Day, etc.

If we really take this seriously, we will get serious about changing minds and hearts.

Simply ridiculing those who believe the lies hasn't worked... and won't work. It only creates enemies.

CAMPAIGN FOR THE TRUTH!
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. "Education, Education, Education!"
Thats what my Mom used to say.

"Critical Thinking" needs it's own TV show!

Fact checkers need to become our new reality stars.

Like "TMZ," only relevant.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #27
54. Its up to us. OR, we can wait how many generations for "somebody" to do it.
I keep saying.... billboards, newspaper ads, spots on buses.

That's just a beginning... there are many ways to do this, if it was really important to "progressives".
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. True and until we change how we elect our leaders, we will only have
multi-millionaires and billionaires running for office, who can buy their office. However, we can't do that if they are running things, so what do we do?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Begin a campaign to change the perception of ordinary folk.
Edited on Sun Apr-11-10 02:23 PM by bobbolink
We haven't done that.

We demonize those who bought into the lies.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. I've been saying the same thing for years.
:toast:
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-11-10 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. k & R
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
26. Kicking for exposure. n/t
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 05:25 AM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks Dajoki!!
K&R :hi:
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
50. You're welcome Mary!!
And thank you!!:pals:
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my2sense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
29. K&R
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
30. Not moving towards socialism and not exceptional either.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
32. The US is a dying country that is propped up under the false assumption it can repay its debt.
It's only a matter of time.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
33. K&R . //nt
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
34. lost me at "the rich"
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 09:14 AM by sui generis
I think the biggest myth of all perpetuated by both sides is that "the rich" or "the poor" act with a unified purpose and agenda. Wealth and poverty are emergent properties, not competing entities.

What a fucking crock of shit and I'll call it every time I see it. We hurt ourselves by playing the myth/countermyth game, and EVERY time we ascribe some kind of anthropomorphic property to "the rich" or "the poor", we paint ourselves as superstitious idiots.

Having said that, I am actually for a milder form of socialism myself if one can qualify managing shared resources and exercising protectionist controls discretionarily - a means to an end. The downsides: in true socialism you are told what your job is going to be whether you like it or not. That would be a downer for many Americans regardless of their income status.



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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. ... hmmm. What?
Please enlighten me as to where you are getting that definition of "true socialism."
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. oh good god
sorry I used the word "true" to twist your knickers.

In practice, socialism pays for one's education at the cost of placing you where resource allocation will benefit commodity production.

In theory, socialism is many "theories" and visions. What is yours? The main takeaway I get is that socialism exists to manage shared resources. The main takeaway I think many DU'ers get is that it's a cathartic system for squelching capitalist anarchy and achieving equitable distribution of wealth, and the problem any rational person has with that is it presumes that a re-distribution must first take place.

Enlightened yet?
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. I simply asked you what you meant by "true socialism."
I didn't ask: "please provide me a passive aggressive straw man condescending response" did I?

Do not confuse your opinion with facts, your stripes are showing in full technicolor glory.

BTW, have you even read Das Kapital. I have, and I have lived half of my life in what could be construed as socialist European democracies. I don't need enlightenment, esp no in such a condescending fashion. "True" has a fairly strict definition, I have no clue what your definition of "true capitalism" was, that is why I asked. Nothing to do with my knickers... but I assume that was more of your own projection issues than anything related with what socialism is or isn't.

LOL
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. technically it was only aggressive
you define passive aggressive wrong.

However your lead in bait seemed passive aggressive so I took a stronger response. I apologize if that was wrong.

Now then, on to your immediate comments: "your stripes", is indeed passive aggressive. Say what you mean and stop implying. Tell me which "fact" I said was an opinion. This is going to be really good - given that practical socialism and political science socialism are twenty different animals, and that IS a fact, and I really don't care which nuance or manifesto you throw your belief system behind.

I grew up in Germany, Frau Liberation, and half my family lives there now. So I invite you again, please tell me how you define the salient parts of socialism in context of the OP?

And any time you're ready to accuse me of some "stripe" please just come out and say it or else fully own your own diagnosis.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Again, I simply asked you a simple question...
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 11:54 AM by liberation
Cheers

LOL
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. likewise
tick tock, dude.
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riverbendviewgal Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
35. I was born in America
but have chosen to be Canadian.

I love living in this "socialist" country.

I never worry about my health care. My son and husband both had the best of care and lived as long as possible with the latest treatments for their cancer. They lost their battle but had a very high quality of life while fighting it. We had no medical bills from their fights.

I am now a retired content widow. I paid 21 percent for 2009 income taxes (provincial and federal) I travel alot. I see America in some of my travels.
In my last trip this winter I drove south to Florida and asked randomly about health care in America. Nine out ten I asked had none..They told me too expensive or they had preexisting conditions. I cherish being Canadian.



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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
36. If all this is true
why are we on the path to socialism?



















:hide: :sarcasm:
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LetsgoWings13 Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
38. GO SOCIALISM! help the poor!!!
they are the ones who need it! not the GREEDY rich!!
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
40. K&R
great post
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
42. K&R
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
44. The first myth is that the wealthy get there on their own . . .
No one can run a business, have their property protected, without assistance of the

people's government or without doing harm to the environment.

We'd be better off if bus-i-ness were never invented -- other than for the very

essential things we do need! "Wealth" is not based in a dollar bill.

It is based in nature and humanity - animal-life.

And, capitalism is simply a way to exploit/destroy those natural resources.

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PinkFloyd Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
48. The sad and pathetic fact is their propaganda bullshit seem to be working
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 12:01 PM by PinkFloyd
By getting enough middle class people worked up and believing it's really happening. They've succeeded because the media, even the liberal media, has done very little to challenge this obvious bullshit. Even sadder is the fact that many of them are using some of the very "socialist" they decry.

There's a reason these types are coming out of the woodwork now more than ever and it's nothing to do with socialism. Back in the day journalists actually behaved like journalists and not just empty-headed morons reading a press release.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
49. Great points

We need to set the record straight on what "socialism" is and is not, how it applies to U.S. Democratic and progressive goals, and (as this post does very well) point out where we are currently, which is at the far end of the scale in terms of the power wealth conveys and the relative powerlessness of the poor to change their circumstances. It makes NO sense that in our current condition someone can purport to annhilate a policy suggestion with the charge of "socialism" or "wealth redistribution."

In other words, 1) "Socialism" as American politics would define it, WORKS very well around the globe and 2)We have next to none of it here presently.

Well done.

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starzdust Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
52. Try being...
...single in the US and not rich. I struggle everyday as a teacher to make ends meet...and I am winning the race to the bottom :-(
JP
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Something is wrong...
when someone selects one of the most important careers in the country and has to struggle.
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Spike89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
53. Any large economy, especially an industrialized nation's can't be just one
Neither capitalism nor socialism taken to extremes or imposed upon every sector of the economy will work. They do work together well when blended and applied to the appropriate parts of the economy. For instance, almost no one with any real seriousness believes that the state has no interest in roads, thus, socialism is the right choice. However, you want companies to compete for car sales by improving their products/efficiency, so you allow Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, VW, etc. to "battle it out". If you're wise, you blend even these examples by having competitive bidding from private firms to build your roads and putting forth policies that provide some incentives for your domestic car manufacturers.

Anyone claiming a socialist paradise is any more likely than a free-market version is flat out wrong. Competition and cooperation both have their place at the table.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
55. the rate of upward mobility has steadily dropped...
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Amaya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
56. k & r
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