Warren Buffett's million dollar tax challenge to his fellow billionaires..

[Fumesucker]

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/taxes-warren-buffett-and-paying-my-fair-share/

Well, let’s start with the ultra-rich. Bajillionaire Warren Buffett has argued that he isn’t being asked to pay his share. He went around his office, asking people what share of their income they pay in income taxes. Buffett’s 17.7 percent tax rate compared a bit too favorably with the 30 percent tax rate paid by his secretary.

So it appears that the tax system favors the super-rich over working stiffs.

And Buffett went a step further, putting his money where his mouth is. Last November he issued a challenge to his fellow billionaires:

I’ll bet a million dollars against any member of the Forbes 400 who challenges me that the average (federal tax rate including income and payroll taxes) for the Forbes 400 will be less than the average of their receptionists.

[MindandSoul]

1. finally an "elite" who is telling the truth and letting his social conscience speak louder than

greed!

[cbdo2007]

10. He is a good guy...

though he'll get lumped in with all the other rich people by most DU folk for little things he's said or done here and there over the years.

[liberation]

20. You can either be a "good guy" or a "billionaire." But not both, sorry.

It is not my problem that Mr. Buffet wants to have it both ways. Let's not confuse politeness and affability with actual moral goodness.


He is part of the top 1% which own more wealth than the bottom half of our country combined. Such inequality is at the root of the major social problems that we face in our country and which is affecting untold millions of people in a very very very negative and disastrous way. One can not be an integral part of the problem, and yet pretend to have any sort of moral higher ground. Sorry.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. I will take your opinion into consideration when you donate forty billion goddamn dollars to charity

Until then, whine whine whine.

[bobbolink]

32. Did you ever consider that if the people you call "whiners" (thanks for the personal slam)

had what we need to survive, WE WOULDN'T NEED CHARITY???

Charity is the filthiest invention of the human mind: first you steal what belongs to everyone; then you use the policeman and the atom bomb to protect it. You give charity to prevent the have-nots from rebelling against you. It also makes you feel less guilty. All do-gooders feel 'high' when they do good. -----U.G. Krishnamurti

[OneGrassRoot]

33. Justice, not charity....

"The doctrine that might makes right has covered the earth with misery. While it crushes the weak, it also destroys the strong. Every deceit, every cruelty, every wrong, reaches back sooner or later and crushes its author. Justice is moral health, bringing happiness, wrong is moral disease, bringing mortal death."

-- John Peter Altgeld


I just found a wonderful site in my search for a quote: http://www.betterworld.net/quotes/justice-quotes.htm

The quote above came from there. It was created recently in honor of their daughter, who was murdered in 2009.

There is so much to be delved into regarding justice versus charity, IMHO.

[bobbolink]

45. Thanks for the quote and the link!

:hug:

[Flying Dream Blues]

67. I have never read what your plan is; in other words, what would

you like to see done for you and others? What are you asking for, and what would be your part in it?

[Hannah Bell]

68. nice deflection. she's not obliged to present a "plan" for you. the fact is, charity exists

because the noble philanthropists first claimed most of the productive property as their own.

[Flying Dream Blues]

69. I never said anyone was obliged to present a plan; I was merely

asking a question because she is advocating for ending poverty and homelessness. Is that so difficult to understand? I don't see why my post called for rudeness on your part.

[JerseygirlCT]

36. So in your mind

he should sell everything he owns, give it to charity and then live on the street.

Then he'd be a good guy?

He's already handed the better part of his wealth over to charity. Wonder if any of us could say the same?

Sorry, the correlation between wealth and "goodness" doesn't work - either way. Being poor doesn't make you good, and being rich doesn't make you bad.

[Hannah Bell]

58. "the better part of his wealth over to charity" = rofl.

[BzaDem]

46. Considering that Warren Buffet has done a hell of a lot more to help people than you ever will

please forgive me if I politely point out that you are full of it. Sorry.

[Brickbat]

38. "Guys" who buy entire companies, shut them down, and offshores manufacturing are not "good

guys" to me.

YMMV, of course.

[Mojeoux]

22. Maybe These Guys Will Bankroll troops of "Not in Our Town," Angels to follow the "God-hates-fags"

Baptists to the funerals they want to defile.

The Billings Montana Angel demonstration was legally allowed to surround and raise their "wings"

to hide the hateful.

Both Demonstrations are expressions of free speech!

:think: :think: :think: :think:

[elleng]

24. Not 'finally,' as Buffett's been saying this for a long time.

Only 'finally' if it gets some legs.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. He's been doing this for years

AND somehow manages to continue to make a great deal of money. Putting the lie to all those who would claim that ensuring the uber-wealthy pay their share will cost jobs and destroy the economy.

[Hannah Bell]

64. he doesn't "pay his share". google buggit + tax breaks

he uses every loophole, lobbyist & lawyer he can to avoid being taxed.

including his "charity" scam.

he wants people with less money than him to be taxed more when they die. he's lobbying for estates of 1 million or more to be taxed at 55%.

it provides his kind with several benefits to destroy small businesses & break up small holdings of family wealth.

meanwhile, buffett gifted 1 billion to each of his childrens' foundations.

[Uncle Joe]

2. Kicked and recommended for the challenge.

Thanks for the thread, Fumesucker.

[femrap]

3. k and r the crap out of this

....the rich don't pay enough. Period.

[Shanti Mama]

4. Buffett has always been like this

He's awesome. Has a brain and a conscience.

[SkyDaddy7]

21. YES HE DOES!!!

He also donated much of his wealth to charity!

[quiet.american]

5. K&R nt

[indepat]

6. This nation has been committing fiscal suicide by slow death since the gipper instituted his

voodoo economics by refusing to saddle the most affluent with a total Federal marginal tax rate that is gleefully imposed on the middle class, all which has been the primary driver in a twelve-fold increase in the national debt and a much further concentration of wealth among the relatively few and calls for social security and Medicare to be slashed to fix the "problem." Prospects are BHO will ultimately have a failed administration as surely as little green apples grow in the summer-time unless he comes to grips with this issue by instituting fairness in the tax code. :-)

[Greyhound]

7. I'll register Republicon if any of them take him up on it.

They aren't about to let that cat out of the bag.

[WillyT]

8. K & R !!!

:kick:

[Selatius]

9. Warren Buffett puts his money where he knows he's going to win hands down.

If he wasn't good at doing that, he wouldn't be one of the wealthiest people in the world.

[laughingliberal]

11. Rec! He's been saying this for years. Would be nice if our elected officials would notice. nt

[Hannah Bell]

59. "saying" it -- but not doing it. The third one is especially interesting!

Speaking to CNBC at Berkshire Hathaway's special shareholder meeting, billionaire Warren Buffett blasted President Obama's proposed tax on the nation's largest banks, and had some oddly optimistic words on the souring housing market.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/20/warren-buffetts-housing-s_n_429850.html


As every person in North Carolina saw their tax bill increase last year, the State of NC was busy granting a tax break to a company owned by the world’s 2nd richest man — Warren Buffett.

http://civitasreview.com/budget-taxes/state-gives-another-tax-break-to-warren-buffett/


News coverage of the tax cut bill now in Congress has noted that the bills contain special favors for certain companies and individuals, including Warren Buffett, the legendary Omaha investor and second-richest man in America. What exactly is the special favor for Buffett?

Under current law, a charitable foundation cannot own more than 20 percent of the stock of any publicly traded corporation. This law was enacted in 1969, when Congress was concerned about the power and possible misuse of foundations. The purpose of the 20 percent limit was to prevent wealthy families from maintaining control of public companies indirectly through a foundation. By passing his stock on to a foundation, rather than to family members themselves, the patriarch could guarantee that it wouldn't be sold by heirs or dispersed over the generations. The Senate version of the new tax bill would raise the limit from 20 percent to 40 percent and ultimately (in 2008) to 49 percent.

The provision was sponsored, at Buffett's request, by his home state senator, Democrat Bob Kerrey of Nebraska. Buffett owns 40 percent of his holding company, Berkshire Hathaway. He has publicly stated that he will leave his stock to his wife, or if she dies first, to his family’s private foundation. "In either event, Berkshire will possess a controlling shareholder guided by the same philosophy and objectives that now set our course," he writes on the Berkshire Hathaway Web site. Buffett's "philosophy and objectives" are widely admired, so the concerns of 1969 have not been raised this time around.

http://www.slate.com/id/1003321/


Oh, noble warren!

The biggest hypocrite scammer on the block.

[zorahopkins]

12. Couldn't He Just Write A Check To The US Treasury?

There is no doubt that Warren Buffet and most billionaires are NOT paying their fair share.

But I think Warren should just take out his check book and write a HUGE check to the United States Treasury. There is nothing, as far as I know, that prevents him from doing that.

And Warren should challenge all the other billionaires to do that, also -- challenge them to write a check equal to 60 or 70% of their total net worth to the US Treasury.

I don't understand why he just doesn't write a check -- and challenge others to do the same thing.

He's rich enough. He can afford to write out a check for a few billion dollars to the US Treasury, and still have several billion left.

[cbdo2007]

15. If you had some extra money, would you send it to the govt? or directly to your fave charities?

The govt. does NOT know how to spend money wisely. Obviously. Unless you haven't read a newspaper for the past hundred years or so. This is congress after all and it's doubtful they would spend it on anything productive. They'll just buy more tanks and bombs with it.

Nope, Buffett gives $$Million$$ each year to his favorites charities so that he knows who it's going to be helping and he knows how it will be spent.

[zorahopkins]

16. He Could Give To Charities AND Write a Check to the US Treasury

Well, of course Warren Buffet donates to charities. It allows him to deduct lots and lots of money on his income taxes.

The OP says this, "Bajillionaire Warren Buffett has argued that he isn’t being asked to pay his share."

Fine.

If Warren thinks he isn't paying his fair share to the US Government, all he needs to do is to take out his check book, and write a check to the US Treasury in the amount he thinks is his fair share.

He hasn't done that.

Warren could also challenge his fellow billionaires to take out their checkbooks and write checks to the US Treasury in amounts that constitute their fair share.

He hasn't done that, either.

And I take STRONG EXCEPTION to your assertion that the governement doesn't know how to spend money wisely, or on anything productive.

[liberation]

23. Nah, It is easier to make bets you know you will win and make you look like the good guy to boot

Funny thing though, I don't think any of us can chose to pay lower taxes because we do not agree with the war spending... and use our money to fund directly whichever charity we so chose instead. I believe we get sent to jail for that. Yet Mr. Buffet can get most of his "income" from actual investments and put himself in a lower taxation rate, because he is such a great guy that he does not trust us poor dumbasses and our federal government for the people, by the people, and of the people. Apparently, rich people do really know better than us poor silly folk.

If Mr. Buffet really cared ever so deeply, he would support an actual lobbying effort to reform taxation in order to make sure the people in his class pay their fair share. But he is not doing any of that... is he?


Amazing the amount of people who fall for the good cop/bad cop kabuki bullshit.

Oh, and let's not forget that morally good charitable giving is a private matter, not a public one. Because it seems Mr. Buffet is rather keen in letting us know how much money he is giving to charity. Because he is such a top guy, I mean it is not like he earned his money moving money around and screwing untold amounts of people. All that tax exempt donations are a great shield for the fact that his holding actually increased his stake in Goldman even as they were engineering the past Wallstreet debacle which almost sent our whole country down the drain. But those are "minor" details, look how he looks like a nice grandpa, isn't he adorable?

Appearances over substance and actions, always in this country... it seems.

[Lucky Luciano]

27. His investment in Goldman helped the economy.

Now Goldman is pissed because he has a 9% coupon and a shitload of warrants struck around $120 with the stock around $180. They are seething about those warrants - I assure you!

[Hannah Bell]

61. it helped *some* people's economy -- people like warren.

[Hannah Bell]

60. +100. Amazing how many people lap up the fairy tale. Gotta believe our owners are nice folks

who really, really wanna help us peons, i guess.

Cause if you couldn't hang onto the fairy tale...

Kind of like the battered spouse syndrome...

[Lucky Luciano]

25. I bet Warren would open his checkbook happily

if the other billionaires were forced to do the same. Doesn't make sense for him to volunteer money to the government if the rest of the billionaires don't do the same. If they all do the same, we would have a shot at paying off our national debt - if he is the only one who writes a big check, then all he did was make a donation that will not really have a meaningful impact on our national debt.

The government does not spend money efficiently as the other poster above you mentioned - just look at the bloated military budget/IRaw/Afghanistan - sorry - I would rather donate the money to a charity - he has already effectively bequeathed most of his entire fortune (except his kids get a $100MM each - a drop in the bucket) to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation which focuses on AIDS cures and other good causes.

[BzaDem]

48. That would be kind of stupid for him to do

If he wants to donate a large sum to help others, and he thinks he gets a much greater bang for his buck from his private charities than the Government in doing so, why would he donate to the government? Contributing half and half would direct a net lower amount of money for helping people than 100% and 0% (if you agree with his assumption).

You could disagree with the assumption that giving money to the government gets less value than giving money to Buffet's private charities. (I think there are many here who disagree and many others here who agree.) But if you agree with Buffet, assuming Buffet agrees with himself, it doesn't make sense for Buffet to donate money to the government.

Buffet in this instance is not the problem. However you feel about the government vs. private charities in terms of his volutary donations, he is directing a huge portion of his wealth to help those in need. What Buffet is calling for is for others to do the same. Obviously, the government cannot force people to donate to private charities, so in terms of other people who don't voluntarily donate, the Government (through taxation) is the only option (and a good one) in terms of helping people through services.

[Hannah Bell]

63. but widdle warren is saying how rich people ought to be taxed MORE... so why doesn't he

put his money where his mouth is, instead of into tax shelters?

Warren Buffett: Estate Tax Hypocrite?
Edward A. Zelinsky (Cardozo): Warren Buffett and the Estate Tax (Oxford University Press Blog):

Among his other observations, Buffett has correctly noted the dangers to a democracy of inherited wealth as well as the moral obligation of those who have done particularly well in American society to give back to that society. ... These concerns have led Buffett to support retention of the federal estate tax and to express dismay that his federal income tax bracket is lower than his secretary’s. ...

All of this leaves me perplexed by the way Buffett is contributing the bulk of his assets to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Buffett has received excellent legal advice to guarantee that his contributions will not generate federal tax. This provokes the question: Why?

Buffett could give his fortune to the Gates Foundation in a manner which generates federal tax. This would leave less for the foundation but more for the federal fisc. Indeed, Bill Gates, like Warren Buffett, advocates retaining the federal estate tax. He too could leave his assets to his foundation in a fashion which would share part of those assets with Uncle Sam

It seems strange for prominent and outspoken advocates of the federal estate tax to dispose of their assets in a manner meticulously designed to avoid the federal estate tax. ... The same skilled lawyers who arranged for Buffett’s fortune to go the Gates Foundation tax-free could instead arrange for Buffett’s assets to go to this foundation on a taxable basis. The resulting payment to the federal Treasury would demonstrate that the sage of Omaha is willing to put his money where he says his heart is.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/11/warren-buffett.html


Because he's a scammer & a lying hypocrite, that's why.

He gives a big chunk of change to his own foundation, his kids' foundations, & the Gates foundation - & doesn't have to pay taxes on it. Those foundations invest the money. This 1) generates more tax-free money, and 2) gives some control over the companies invested in. Then they get to spend a fraction of the money on projects of their own choosing, reaping political benefits & steering policy in their preferred directions, while paying salaries, travel expenses, & other perks to their kids and other operatives using the foundations' tax-free money.

A commenter notes:

Do any of you defending Buffett realize that "charitable organizatons" and NGOs are one of the fastest growing conentration of wealth in the country? That they are taking an increasing political role, and that the executives who run them make outlandish salaries and enjoy perks?

****

NGOs, e.g., like those currently making policy in Haiti.

Locusts.

[CTyankee]

13. But my mechanic's kid sez "the rich pay the most in taxes."

He is dirt poor, by the way. Just barely getting by. Has a little daughter to support. I cannot for the life of me understand why these poor guys believe RW garbage without checking any further. He had to drop out of community college because he simply couldn't make enough money to afford tuition (this was a while back, during the Bush administration, hopefully it has changed under Obama).

Why do some people stay so WILLFULLY poor and misguided?

[unblock]

14. now he's done it! you just KNOW some bastid is going to mess with receptionist compensation to win!

let's say i'm a member of the forbes 400.

ahhh, let's linger with that thought for a few moments.

mmmmmmmm...

whuh? where was i? oh, yes:



let's see, effective immediately, my receptionist's salary is reduced to minimum wage. to make up the difference, she is issued $100,000 in company restricted stock. no taxes due until the sale, and she won't be permitted to sell during the year. but, she can borrow against it and live off that. so essentially, her taxable income has been reduced to minimum wage, but her standard of living hasn't dropped due to the borrowing off the stock, and eventually she will be able to sell the stock and come out ahead.

this year, though, she pays nothing in taxes (don't know if he's counting fica on the minimum wage).

so I WIN THE $1,000,000 and all it involved was recharacterizing the compensation of my receptionist.
note the same could be done for 100 receptionists.

[Crystal Clarity]

17. Thank You Warren Buffet

For your honesty....

Too bad most people don't know about this inequity.

I read a book on this very subject published back in 1992 titled "Who Will Tell The People"? Apparently word still has not gotten out and sadly only one billionaire has the conscience to say so.

[WCGreen]

18. I love to kick stuff like this...

And recomment as well...

I prepare taxes and always put the effective federal rate of tax each client pays...

[high density]

19. Here ya go Warren

https://www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstance.html?agencyFormId=23779454

They even take credit cards.

[Hannah Bell]

26. wow, the buffett idolatry is strong.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

29. I'll take your opinion into consideration when you give billions to charitable foundations.

He's done more in one day than you'll do in your lifetime.

[Hannah Bell]

30. ho-ho-ho. gullible little thing. "worship the rich! worship the rich!"

carnegie gave more in inflation-adjusted dollars -- and yet we are not saved!!!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

47. I don't worship at the altar of anyone.

Unlike some people I could name.

[Hannah Bell]

52. & who might those people be, cessna?

[Dorian Gray]

34. You can't say that

He's given billions, which is amazingly generous, but it's all relative to what he has. Many people who don't have the funds that he has still give a lot and their lives to charities and causes. Both the money and the work are important, and neither should be elevated above the other.

[Hannah Bell]

62. he's a hypocrite.

Future of Capitalism, Warren Buffett's Tax Hypocrisy:

When Warren Buffett criticized President Bush's tax cuts while plumping for the presidential campaigns of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, he garnered prominent, adulatory headlines...

Consider that as the context for two pieces of information:

First, the observation, amid a column in today's Wall Street Journal, about Berkshire Hathaway's cash mountain: "Mr. Buffett would rather not resort to the simplest way of solving this problem -- paying excess cash out to shareholders in the form of a dividend. Since he owns roughly 26% of Berkshire's shares, a cash dividend would saddle Mr. Buffett with one of the largest personal-income tax bills in American history. That's not the kind of thing at which he likes to excel. Mr. Buffett's reluctance to pay a dividend leaves him with little choice but to buy big companies outright."

Second, the news (again, from the Wall Street Journal) that Mr. Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway is joining in a bid to buy $3 billion in tax credits from Fannie Mae. Reports the Journal: "The credits are virtually worthless to Fannie Mae and require the company to take losses each quarter as their value declines. Companies such as Berkshire Hathaway and Goldman Sachs could use them to offset federal tax expenses."

Neither Journal article places the news in the context of Mr. Buffett's stated support for higher taxes.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2009/11/warren-buffett-.html


Warren Buffett: Estate Tax Hypocrite?
Edward A. Zelinsky (Cardozo): Warren Buffett and the Estate Tax (Oxford University Press Blog):

Among his other observations, Buffett has correctly noted the dangers to a democracy of inherited wealth as well as the moral obligation of those who have done particularly well in American society to give back to that society. ... These concerns have led Buffett to support retention of the federal estate tax and to express dismay that his federal income tax bracket is lower than his secretary’s. ...

All of this leaves me perplexed by the way Buffett is contributing the bulk of his assets to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Buffett has received excellent legal advice to guarantee that his contributions will not generate federal tax. This provokes the question: Why?

Buffett could give his fortune to the Gates Foundation in a manner which generates federal tax. This would leave less for the foundation but more for the federal fisc. Indeed, Bill Gates, like Warren Buffett, advocates retaining the federal estate tax. He too could leave his assets to his foundation in a fashion which would share part of those assets with Uncle Sam

It seems strange for prominent and outspoken advocates of the federal estate tax to dispose of their assets in a manner meticulously designed to avoid the federal estate tax. ... The same skilled lawyers who arranged for Buffett’s fortune to go the Gates Foundation tax-free could instead arrange for Buffett’s assets to go to this foundation on a taxable basis. The resulting payment to the federal Treasury would demonstrate that the sage of Omaha is willing to put his money where he says his heart is.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/11/warren-buffett.html

[Brickbat]

40. I find it amazing, m'self.

[Hannah Bell]

53. cozy little warren. richest man = biggest scammer.

So why is the timing here so important ???

Because when St Warren of Buffet finally did come in on his white horse to rescue Wall Street from its own voracious greed, and the rest of the world from its callousness and stupidity, he had his choice of places where he could put his money as a way of showing faith in the system that seemed to be falling apart at the seams.

He obviously hadn’t gotten involved during the whole Bear Stearns debacle earlier in 2008. And he could have chosen to rescue Lehman Brothers, the venerable investment house established in 1855 – but he didn’t. Or he could even have taken his billions and help stabilize the world’s biggest insurance company, AIG – but he didn’t do that either.

Instead, on the 23rd of September, 2008, Goldman announced a private deal to sell Berkshire Hathaway $5 billion of perpetual preferred stock – basically a loan with a guaranteed 10% annual dividend of $500 million dollars - AND a “bonus” of the right to buy $5 billion of GS common at $115 / share at any time during the next five years.

Now, given Buffett’s penchant for long-term investments, one could bet he wasn’t too concerned when, at one point in the first year of the “bonus” period, GS was, like so many American homes were and would become, “underwater”, at around $47 / share.

Only these 43,478,260 warrants weren’t places Buffett was planning to live in, but, rather cash in at some point later in the 5-year period. So when the price a year later was at $186, Buffett – had he sold the entire lot – would have made a nice profit of some $3 billion.

In this context, we are duty-bound to raise the question of due diligence.


http://www.economywatch.com/economy-business-and-finance-news/warren-buffet-goldman-sachs-what-did-he-know-when-did-he-know-it-11-02.html


What did Warren Buffett know about the negative position of Goldman Sachs towards the housing market – and when – such that he had great confidence giving a $5 billion loan to GS at a time when the whole financial world seemed heading towards Doomsday ???





SEC whacks Warren Buffett-owned insurer for $97 million in AIG-related case
By: Timothy P. Carney
Examiner Columnist
01/20/10 2:02 PM EST

The nation's largest reinsurance company, General Re, was charged by the Securities and Exchange Commission for allegedly creating "sham" reinsurance agreements with AIG, the failed insurance giant, back in 2000, the SEC announced today. General Re, according to the SEC, agreed in a settlement to pay more than $97 million to AIG shareholders, the Post Office, and others as part of the settlement.

Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway owns General Re.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/SEC-whacks-Warren-Buffett-owned-insurer-in-AIG-related-case-82179237.html



Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/SEC-whacks-Warren-Buffett-owned-insurer-in-AIG-related-case-82179237.html#ixzz0klpBgs7S

[Hannah Bell]

55. dupe

[Hannah Bell]

56. btw, warren & obama = cousins.

Marin Duvall 1625
|                |
Ben              Mareen 
|                |
Ben              Jake
|                |
Ben              James
|                |
Gabe             Gabe
|                |
Will             Louisiana + Overall
|                |
Henrietta        Overall + Clark
+                |
Buffett 1877     Clark
|                + Armour
HH Buffett 1903        |
|                      Armour (1900)
Lil warren             + Dunham
(1930)                 |
                       Dunham (1918)  
                       + Payne
                       |
                       Dunham + Obama     
                       |
                       The Pres




Also via this connection with Pres Truman & Dick Cheney.


another factoid:  buffett = largest holder of coca-cola. 
former president of coke = jack l. stahl, born 1953, 22 years
with coke.

"Mr. Stahl served in the role of President and Chief
Executive Officer of cosmetics company Revlon from 2002 until
his retirement in September 2006. 

Prior to joining Revlon, Mr. Stahl had a 22-year career as an
executive with the Coca-Cola Company culminating in the role
of President and Chief Operating Officer. He also served as
Group President of Coca-Cola, Americas, and Chief Financial
Officer." 


Warren Buffett's mother = Leila Stahl.  Grandfather = John
Ammon Stahl.

Coincidence?

[Swede]

31. He's one of the good ones.

Ben Affleck (though not in the same league as Buffet) also said something along these lines.

[Hannah Bell]

37. piffle. he has a good PR department. lil folksy warren.

[Swede]

41. He is always pushing for higher taxes for the rich.

Always. It isn't a PR stunt.

[Hannah Bell]

43. he's not pushing for higher taxes for "the rich". he *is* "the rich," & he uses every

tax dodge available to him, including the foundation dodge.

he's pushing for higher taxes for the "less rich" & "less connected".


you don't become the richest person in the world by being a good guy.

[Swede]

44. I disagree completely.

He invests by buying and holding stocks. He doesn't gut companies he invests in.

[Hannah Bell]

50. non-seq. & i seriously doubt any casual observer knows *what* he does.

[BzaDem]

49. Your incorrect assumption is that a member of "the rich" can't push for higher taxes for that group.

Yes, he *is* the rich. But no, that doesn't forclose him from being able to push for higher taxes for "the rich," your comments notwithstanding.

And as for your quip about him not being a "good guy" solely due to his income level, I think he has done more to help the poor than you will ever do in your lifetime. How that leaves him on the "goodness" scale relative to you is a question I will leave for others.

[Hannah Bell]

51. if he's so in favor of more taxes, why doesn't he pay more himself?

and as for the idea that he's done a lot for the poor, you don't seem to know much about his history of philanthropy --

-- which didn't start in any big way until 2004, after his first wife died.

his giving has never particularly focused on "the poor," either.

the biggest donations of his personal foundation (now named for his wife) have been for "reproductive health" - planned parenthood/abortion, & research on same.

he gave 1 billion each to his kids for *their* foundations = jobs for life. his kids don't focus on "the poor" either.

all buffett's gift = tax breaks for him, tax-free investment fund the profits of which can be used to influence public policy, jobs for his kids & friends, & lots of good public relations.

[BzaDem]

54. He is in favor of donating money to help those less fortunate, not necessarily more taxes as an end

to itself.

He feels that he can better direct his money towards causes he supports (such as the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, of which 31 billion will be going). What is is protesting is that there are plenty of wealthy people who aren't as generous with their fortunes. For these people, increased taxation is the only option, and he favors that.

[Hannah Bell]

57. know his secret heart, do you?

everybody with more than a spare million or two has a foundation. it's the biggest tax scam going.

you get to sock a chunk of untaxed change away, you get to invest it tax free & you get to spend a nominal percent of the profit, untaxed, on projects of your own choosing, which has political ramifications. you can use the rest to hire your relatives & acolytes.

i don't want warren buggit's dubious "charity". i want coca-cola (of which he owns about 8%, plus some more through sun trust bank & other holders of coke stock that he also owns shares in) to stop murdering labor organizers, for example.

fuck buffett.


Future of Capitalism, Warren Buffett's Tax Hypocrisy:

When Warren Buffett criticized President Bush's tax cuts while plumping for the presidential campaigns of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, he garnered prominent, adulatory headlines ... Consider that as the context for two pieces of information:

First, the observation, amid a column in today's Wall Street Journal, about Berkshire Hathaway's cash mountain: "Mr. Buffett would rather not resort to the simplest way of solving this problem -- paying excess cash out to shareholders in the form of a dividend. Since he owns roughly 26% of Berkshire's shares, a cash dividend would saddle Mr. Buffett with one of the largest personal-income tax bills in American history. That's not the kind of thing at which he likes to excel. Mr. Buffett's reluctance to pay a dividend leaves him with little choice but to buy big companies outright."

Second, the news (again, from the Wall Street Journal) that Mr. Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway is joining in a bid to buy $3 billion in tax credits from Fannie Mae. Reports the Journal: "The credits are virtually worthless to Fannie Mae and require the company to take losses each quarter as their value declines. Companies such as Berkshire Hathaway and Goldman Sachs could use them to offset federal tax expenses."

Neither Journal article places the news in the context of Mr. Buffett's stated support for higher taxes.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2009/11/warren-buffett-.html

[BzaDem]

65. You are missing the point completely.

If wealthy person A is legally minimizing his taxes so he can donate more to charity, that does not bother me.

If wealthy person B is legally minimizing his taxes so he could keep most of it for himself and his relatives, or to invest in a "tax scam" and use for other purposes, that would bother me. (Your assertions that Buffet is himself doing so are all bullshit.)

Buffet wants higher taxes for the wealthy because he wants more of the wealth of person B to go to the less fortunate, and higher taxes is the only way for that to happen (by definition of person B).


In addition, you should do some research on the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation (where he is donating 31 BILLION DOLLARS OF HIS MONEY TOWARDS) before making such a fool of yourself. If you are implying that is a "tax scam" in any way, you are just digging yourself further and further into a hole. Google is your friend.

[Hannah Bell]

66. i've done more research on the gates foundation than most people.

and more research on foundations as well.

they're a tax scam. they're untaxed investment vehicles.

and warren buffett has *not* given gates 31 billion. he's *pledged* to do so.

so far, the actual giving has amounted to about 5% of that pledge per year since, i.e. $1.5 billion or less in 2007, 2008, 2009 & 2010. In Berkshire hathaway shares. So about 6 billion.

maybe you should try the google yourself.

[G_j]

39. excellent nt

[Cleita]

42. I wish Buffett would get together with a group of his fellow billionaires

and put their money in buying 51% or even 60% of CNN stock. Then they can work on turning it into a real cable news station run with journalistic standards. They might even make money. I don't feel that paying taxes to fuel two wars of aggression is the best place for a lot of money today.