Claiming miners make $70,000 a year was what they said about auto workers when they tried to bust

[DainBramaged]

the UAW.

Fucking shameful to denigrate the labor of these men and begrudging them a living wage.




http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/unionProfile.cfm?id=149 (these people are scum and anti-Union)

[Myrina]

1. For what they do, you couldn't pay me $700,000 a year.

They deserve every penny of their salary, and more, in addition to long-term guaranteed health care coverage because what they're breathing and absorbing in those mines is NEVER healthy.

[shanti]

2. they say that about

EVERY union job.

[demosincebirth]

3. If they did make that, they would still be very under paid.

[Brickbat]

4. If it's so easy and makes so much money, then why aren't they flooded with applicants?

That's what I always wonder about that argument -- if it's easy money, and (rhetorical) you're complaining about what they get and you don't, who's the dumbass here?

[DainBramaged]

5. The HARDEST job I ever had was working the line at the Linden GM plant in the 80's

after three weeks training and a month being a gopher, I started slinging wheels and tires, and we didn't have robots, hydraulic jacks or lifts putting the tires/wheels on the cars, you picked one off your pile, prayed it matched the ones on the other side the guy was installing, spun on the lug nuts from your tray, and pounded that air wrench. I swear my hearing is damaged from that noise, and went home dead tired and sore. It took me 6 months before I became strong enough to pull a wheel one-handed. And my right arm to this day is bigger than my left.

[Brickbat]

6. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

A job like that is always spun as "sitting on an assembly line putting a widget on a gasket" and the workers mocked as being brainless and lazy. I would love to see every snotty lawyer, stock broker, office hack and corrupt middle manager who looks down on jobs such as those work one for one day and see how they end up. Actually, no, a week -- because they could probably get through the one day. It's getting up the next day, and the next day, and the next day that makes it hard.

[csziggy]

11. On NPR, Diane Reihm Show this morning, a Union miner said the same thing

Working in the mines requires knowledge of the coal face, of the conditions in your area and in the whole mine, and attention to detail. In addition, the machinery these days is technologically advanced and cannot be operated by just any grunt off the street - it needs training and skill.

Many of the white collar guys that make fun of this kind of career would not last five minutes in a mine - they would probably freak just going down into the mine.

[Petrushka]

15. + 100 --- but --- make it a month of changing shifts weekly . . .

. . . so they understand how terminal jet-lag feels.

K&R

[Brickbat]

37. As the spouse of a locomotive engineer who is on call 24/7/365,

I totally agree.

[tonysam]

17. +10,000

n/t

[snooper2]

8. That's nothing...I used to set mobile homes in missouri

:)

First you have to load up all the couple hundreed concrete blocks for your job at 5:00 AM, then drive the 30-120 minutes to the job site. Hopefully when you get to said job site the trailer is on nice level ground, not one of these fucking back breaking headaches where they want it set on the side of a mountain.

Jack, level set blocks, shim,

We made our own tie downs on site so there's another 30 minutes of work...and easy way to slice your hand open



Then if you are lucky there is a concrete pad where you can run the hammer drill and install the anchors for the straps every eight feet on both sides. If it's sitting on a dirt lot then you have to get the auger out. It's a one man machine that will kick your ass. Get about two foot down and hit a rock or root and it will swing your ass 180 degrees into the side of the trailer.



Then you run your straps and get out two 3/4 inch ratches to tighten them down. Then clean up and either skirt it the next day or let a different crew do it. We got paid by the job...1994 at 20 years old I was making 1200 a week easy :) 12 hour days though....

[EC]

7. He did say that that was with a lot of

over-time because of the mines need to get out product and not wanting to hire more folks...

[madinmaryland]

9. I heard a Union Representative make reference to that amount last night

on one of the news programs. He indicated that is NOT a base salary, and only with overtime can a miner come close to that size of salary.

FTR - My grandfather worked in the mines until he developed a lung infection, and his brother died in the mines. If they get 70K, they deserve every cent of it.

[DainBramaged]

10. The fucking anti-union hacks are trying to undermine their salaries

I am so sick of them begrudging a man his wages, fucking hacks.

[malaise]

12. Great spot DainBramaged

That great salary really helps when lung disease kicks in. :sarcasm:

[LoZoccolo]

13. How much do they really make? n/t

[Petrushka]

20. In 1993, when my brother retired after twenty years in an underground mine . . .

. . . he had been working, at times, seven days a week.
As an electrician, he was earning more than 60K per year.

Edited to add: He very seldom worked more than 12 hours
a day; and, considering the effects of the "jet-lag" he
experienced by working the ever-changing MAD shift---
Midnight-Afternoon-Day---it's doubtful he would have
survived a double-shift.



Today, the median salary for a miner with 1 to 4 years
of experience is 60K; and with 5 to 9 years experience,
70K.

Here's a link to a chart showing miners' salaries by years of
experience; but, if you nose around that website, you'll find
their average hourly wage rate. With a little arithmetic, you
can figure out how many hours those miners are working to earn
their 60-70K.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Coal_Mine_Workers/Salary/by_Years_Experience

[Petrushka]

29. P. S. to Reply #20 --- (too late to edit again) --- FWIW: My brother (& cousins) are UMWA. (eom)

[midnight]

14. I'm confused about how 70,000 could be considered unreasonable for the risk

involve in this job. Furthermore, why can bankers have their unreasonable bonuses, and wages be allowed?

[zorahopkins]

16. What's Wrong With Making $70,000 A Year??

I don't get it.

What's wrong with making $70,000 a year?

[mvccd1000]

30. What's wrong with making $80,000 a year?

That's what I made in Iraq as a mechanic, working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, outside in the 130* heat (unless I was in a bunker where it was even hotter as mortars rained down on our motor pool).

I sure got to listen to a lot of speculation about overpaid contractors, though...

I don't begrudge anyone their money if they work for it. For the work those miners do, I think I'd want more than $70,000.

[Tutonic]

18. Yeah that is for an 80 hour work week. These folks make

close to dirt wages for a real 40 hour week--they get time and one-half or double-time for an 80 hour week and hence $70,000. The Mining Industry denigrates the dead workers by continuing to put this lie out into the public. Many of these men and women actually earn less than $28,000 for a 40 hour week--and they are FORCED to work 80 hour weeks in highly dangerous and unsanitary conditions to keep their jobs. Our nation is lost.

[Petrushka]

22. Miners "...actually earn less than $28,000 for a 40 hour week...."?

Don't know where you got that idea; but here's a link to
a website showing their average hourly wage rate (you'll have to
do the arithmetic):

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Coal_Mine_Workers/Hourly_Rate

[blondeatlast]

26. So I checked MY career against that site and all I can say is...

BwAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I so wish! And you can make that site say any damn thing you want to.

Here's a thought--try the Occupational Outlook Handbook. Yes it's Fed, but it's quite accurate.

[Petrushka]

28. Thank you! I checked it out and, after 45 minutes of nosing around . . .

. . . I couldn't find anything specific to coal miners' earnings
or the average weekly hours & overtime worked by them. However, I did
find a .pdf document that lumps together all miners and logging workers:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf


According to the tables provided there, the average weekly working
hours & overtime for miners (and loggers) was 42.4 hours in March
2009; 43.0 hours in March 2010.

The average weekly earning for miners (and loggers) was $1,166.42
in March 2009; $1,158.85 in March 2010.

With a little bit of arithmetic, it looks as though miners (in
general) don't need to work double-shifts in order to earn 60K+.
On average, they can earn that much in 40 hours.

If you (or anyone) can provide another link at the bls.gov website
to back up the contention that coal miners must work double-shifts or
work 80-hour weeks in order to earn $60-$70 per year because they
make only #28,000 by working 40 hours, I'll swallow hard and admit
you're right.





:patriot:

[blondeatlast]

34. Will do, but first--you point to any post on DU where you advocated a progressive

or liberal position.

[Petrushka]

39. Don't know if anything I posted at the following links (**uh**) qualifies as progressive or liberal

. . . but those threads oughta provide you with a few minutes of reading material, for starters. If you need any more, you'll have to hunt 'em out all by yourself. Have a nice day! --->


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1184157


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2027600


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=185x2108


http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3935965&mesg_id=3936158


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x132121

[Hannah Bell]

31. Those aren't "average" wages, they're median wages. Median means half make less, half make more.

Median wage for, e.g. a dragline operator, is reported as $17.51: $36K for a 40-hour, 52-week year.

Half make less.

Top median wage reported is $27.02 for a loading-machine operator, = $56K/year.

Half make less.

Median wage for general "coal mine worker" = $21.97, i.e. $45.6K.

Half make less.

[Petrushka]

33. Thank you, Hannah! (n/t)

[Petrushka]

32. Too late to edit Reply #22 . . .

In place of "their average hourly wage rate", I should have written "their median average hourly wage rate."

Sorry 'bout dat!

[baldguy]

19. The old lie: being paid well for physical labor is a crime.

Doubly so if it's dangerous physical labor.

[amborin]

24. +100

[cmd]

21. My brother worked in a non-union until his death 3 years ago

He had worked in a Union mine most of his life, but it shut down leaving dozens in our community unemployed. Working non-Union was a last resort. It's not that the wages are bad. He was easily pulling down 60,000 + every year. The problem was the working conditions and the mandatory overtime. He was working a lot of double shifts. When you are tired, you make mistakes. This was a constant worry for him. Yeah, he slept on the job when he got a break. One of the last times he did that a rat bit him in the neck. Pleasant thought, isn't it?

My dad also was a miner. He did work Union all his life. When he was working as fire boss, would regularly pull the men out if he had any suspicion that something was wrong. The big difference in Union and non-Union is that the fire boss in a Union mine answers to his men. In a non-Union, the fire boss is a lackey for the owners.

My thoughts are with all the men and women working under and above ground in mines around the world. Please think of them the next time you pay your electric bill. Chances are very good coal supplied that power.

[Petrushka]

23. + 100

:thumbsup:

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. +200

[Catshrink]

25. They say the same things about teachers now...

It's all about union busting.

[blondeatlast]

27. Airline pilots, air traffic controllers, UPS drivers, auto workers--the list goes on and on.

And we all know it's BS.

You get a big k/r from me.

[Romulox]

36. I'm surprised a DUer with a "Union Yes!" avatar hasn't started a fanclub for imported coal...

:rofl:

[DainBramaged]

38. It'll happen, you know it, as sure as the sun will rise

'Imported coal is better quality coal, it's mined better, burns better, doesn't break down'.

:sarcasm:


The guy running this mining company needs to be brought to justice.