Do all miners make $70,000 per year?

[gvstn]

MSNBC's Ed Schultz asked is that the regular pay for 40 hours per week? The interviewee said, "No, no one in mining works 40 hours per week there is a lot of overtime." There was no clarification on how much overtime had to be put in to achieve that salary. But it has been quoted as the normal salary for mine workers. I have no qualms about workers who do very dirty work and take on health risks being paid well for their efforts. I do have a problem with every cable news channel quoting that salary as normal for all miners and assuming a 40 hour work week.

Later on I heard CNN say miners in that town make $70,000 a year and it is a good job. No clarification about how many hours a week are needed to achieve that salary.

I'd like others to listen to reports on the mining incident and listen for salary information. I keep hearing this $70,000 a year salary as some sort of justification for "they knew the risks". I really don't believe every miner was earning $70,000 a year.

[Maru Kitteh]

1. I had the same thoughts. n/t

[sandnsea]

2. Here's some ads

http://www.getminingjobs.com/underground-technician-coal-miner-surrounding-charleston-west-virginia-664126.htm?utm_source=SimplyHired&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=SimplyHired

$20-$35. So $70,000 would either be with a ton of overtime or at the top of the pay scale.

Regardless, there is no need for them to sacrifice safety for a paycheck.

[Maru Kitteh]

3. Exactly - NOBODY should have to die at work!

[cap]

24. if they can count on working 40 hour weeks with OT, they can possibly make 70K

the years where they aren't working full hours, they will be seeing 30K. Oh yeah, and the time you are taking off due to injury, you aren't drawing full pay either.

Look at their town in WV, not a well to do town. If you had a core of workers making that kind of money, the town and the clothing and the cars the families of the deceased would have been a whole lot ritzier. Their wives work. If their wives work, those families would have been clocking north of 100K. That kind of salary in that real estate market where you can buy a house for less than 100K would mean that you are living like a king.

[snooper2]

28. No but they should get hazard pay...

Same as the painters who work on the Golden Gate Bridge....

[walldude]

4. What does salary matter? CEO's on Wall Street make billions and their

biggest worry is breaking a fucking nail...

[Ganja Ninja]

43. Amazing isn't it.

How the same people that complain that union workers are paid too much are the same ones to leap to the defense of overpaid CEO's.

[napi21]

5. Wage & hour info for miners from a gov't report.

Table 2. Average earnings of nonsupervisory workers in mining, 2008 Industry segment
Hourly
Weekly

Total, Private Industry
$18.08
$608


Mining
23.01
1043

Oil and gas extraction
27.28
1120

Support activities for mining
22.40
1033

Mining, except oil and gas
22.01
1017

Metal ore mining
25.94
1195

Coal mining
23.27
1140

Nonmetallic mineral mining and quarrying
19.13
840

SOURCE: BLS Current Employment Statistics, 2008.

----------------------------------------------------------

Table 3. Median hourly wages of the largest occupations in mining, May 2008 Occupation
Mining, except oil and gas
Oil and gas extraction
Support activities for mining
All industries

General and operations managers
$42.94
$53.57
$46.43
$44.02

First-line supervisors/managers of construction trades and extraction workers
32.19
31.58
30.42
27.95

Operating engineers and other construction equipment operators
18.84
25.30
17.58
18.88

Service unit operators, oil, gas, and mining
17.84
22.56
17.70
18.07

Helpers--extraction workers
17.75
16.06
16.39
15.74

Truck drivers, heavy and tractor-trailer
17.33
16.99
15.99
17.92

Rotary drill operators, oil and gas
15.48
22.01
24.23
23.94

Derrick operators, oil and gas
**
19.97
20.25
20.15

Wellhead pumpers
**
19.28
17.63
18.20

Roustabouts, oil and gas
**
15.21
14.78
14.72

** Data not available
SOURCE: BLS Occupational Employment Statistics, May 2008.
------------------------------------------------------------
The average work week for a production worker in mining was 45.3 hours.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs004.htm

It's a very long in depth report, but quite informative. I don't see any amount of $$ that's worth doing that job!

[notadmblnd]

6. OMG! they make about as much as auto workers formerly did

we got to bust those unions pronto. Those folks should be dying for a lot less:sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

22. looks like median for regular labor = $15-$24. That means half make *less*.

Likely Massey, non-union, pays below average for the industry.

[ncguy]

27. Actually

Massey pays very well, sometimes better than union with certain add-in pay, like fire-bossing, etc. Where Massey saves their money is in the long-term employee cost: retirement, medical, hiring / firing practices, etc. and of course - SAFETY

And, I would like to take this moment to say FUCK DON BLANKENSHIP!

[Hannah Bell]

30. Massey’s average wage = $52,000 per year per Massey.

That's $25/hr for 52 8-hour weeks, & the average includes supervisory & technical positions, so I'd bet general labor doesn't make that, & contracted operations make less.

http://ourtotalenvironment.com/jobs/benefits.aspx


They recently made wage cuts:

"I am assuming that when Massey talks about fighting for Appalachian jobs they aren't referring to the fact that earlier in 2009 they cut employee pay by 6% and then recently increased the performance bonus for Massey's CEO, Don Blankenship, by $600,000."

http://www.desmogblog.com/massey-energy-running-attack-ads-against-tree-hugging-extremists


I don't call those good wages.

[elleng]

13. And thats before taxes, etc.

[old mark]

7. Only the ones who are still alive. nt

[csziggy]

8. Remember when the news guys were claiming that automotive workers made that much?

And it was not true. Maybe the most senior workers with 30 years experience, all their benefits, insurance, over time and pension packages might come to $70,000 out of pocket for the employers. But I would bet that not one of the miners actually ever saw a year in which they made $70,000.

[Monk06]

9. To right wingers the less you make a year, the more too much you're paid.

[Vickers]

10. "I heard CNN say miners in that town make $70,000 a year and it is a good job"

Ask any of them if they will trade jobs.

:eyes:

[aquart]

11. I was about to say not one of them will ever apply for it.

Or allow their children to.

[pnwmom]

12. I bet that number includes benefits like health insurance and retirement. n/t

[Obamanaut]

21. If so, it is understandable, since it would be part of the compensation package. nt

[4lbs]

14. A standard 40 hour work week, 50 weeks a year, means 2000 hours a year.

So, to get $70,000 annually, based on 2000 hours, that's $35 per hour.

If the miners instead earned $20 per hour, to reach $70K annually, they would have to work 3500 hours annually.

Based on 50 work weeks per year, that's 70 hours per week. It boils down to 10 hours per day, 7 days per week, or 14 hours per day, 5 days a week.

[Lance_Boyle]

32. Coal miners work rotating shifts, so wages vary based on shift

*and* on overtime. You'll get paid more the periods where you work night shift (time + 1/2) than those in which you work day. Overtime is frequently available for those who want it, all shifts.

[KillCapitalism]

15. If they really do make $70K...

That's a really good salary for that part of the country. In my neck of the woods that doesn't go far at all though. They deserve good pay b/c of how dirty & hazardous their jobs are.

[Jax]

16. What does "70,000 bucks" mean to you?

what are you asking?

[ejpoeta]

18. i think the poster was pointing out that the media once again just reports things as facts

without bothering to do any work to see if it's true. It is disingenuous at best if they are spouting these numbers because many people watching may think they make a lot of money when they don't. does it matter how much they make when they are dead?? no, but it presents a false perception about these mine workers when they were just trying to make a living and feed their family.

the most heartbreaking for me is this guy who was weeks from retirement.... he worked for years in those mines with this bright light at the end of the tunnel where he could actually spend some time with his wife and family and that is gone for him and for his family now.

[ChicagoSuz219]

17. This was a non-union mine. Hard to believe. n/t

[Fire1]

36. Are there ANY mines that are unionized? Don't think so. n/t

[ljm2002]

38. I'm guessing yes, there are...

...there's that organization you may have heard of, the United Mine Workers.

[Fire1]

39. Unfortunately, not all workers are members of the UMWA.

Union members could've easily walked off the job and refused to work in those conditions without repercussions. Why didn't they?

[ljm2002]

42. True, not all mine workers are members of the UMWA...

...but I was replying to your post, which said and I quote:

"Are there ANY mines that are unionized? Don't think so."

[Fire1]

44. Point taken. n/t

[ChicagoSuz219]

50. Gee... I hope the United Mine Workers & the United Steel Workers...

...don't find out.

[spinbaby]

19. So what if they do make 70,000

It's a dirty, dangerous, physically demanding job. They deserve that much.

I have family in the mining industry. Some make more than that. A good mechanic can work seven days a week and make six figures.

However, to get started in the mines, you have to pay to take a safety class, pay for your own helmet, boots, etc, and work as a temp at $10 an hour. It's all non union nowadays.

[gvstn]

45. Thanks for the information

I wasn't saying that $70K was too much, I was just wondering if all miners made that amount as has been stated on teevee. $70K doesn't go that far when trying to raise a family but the area looks a bit more depressed than that to me from the pictures I've been seeing.

I usually go by taking hourly wage and doubling it and multiplying by a 1000 to get yearly income. So $35/hr x 2 X 1000 =$70,000/yr.

I was saying I don't think every miner makes $35/hr. That is definitely a wage that is minimally appropriate to get skilled workers that will take the associated health risks even in the safest of conditions. I was guessing that the wage may be closer to $22-25/hr plus overtime making tv reports misleading. Your information about temp workers and starting wages makes sense since not everyone makes the career employee wage.

When I see the math and hear the conditions miners work in I really don't think $70K is enough compensation for career employees despite teevee commentators making it sound like good money. The health consequences alone shorten a miners working years and lessen their retirement funds which helps explain the very modest living standards.

Something about the way the talking heads put that salary information into the newscast so often rubs me the wrong way. Sort of like they are justifying the risks these miners take. (You don't hear them say, "Newt Gingrich who makes $850,000/yr and has two vacation homes says healthcare reform is too expensive". Yet they keep putting salary information in this mining story.) Something about it is bugging me.

[donco6]

20. So what if they were?

What should a miner make for spending his life in a dark hole, breathing dust that will probably kill him/her? How much is that worth to you?

[SmileyRose]

23. 12 hrs a day 7 days a week - full disability by age 50 - most die B4 age 60

They knew the risks.
They had so few other opportunities to obtain decent housing and medical care for their families they took that risk.
Shame on anyone who thinks a decent salary means an employer no longer has to provide the safest working environment possible.

[zbdent]

25. Just like all auto workers make $75/hour ...

like all radio personalities make $20 million a year ...

[stray cat]

26. Base pay even in non-union mines is at least $22/hour

it is a good paying job than most often does not require a high school degree although you have to be above 18 to go under ground. For WV the pay is good and thats why alot of people take mining jobs if they can get them.

[Hannah Bell]

33. government stats say otherwise.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8103232&mesg_id=8103291

[Historic NY]

29. they may make that much if they Union but non-union not so much...

I'm just wondering if the non-union workers have all those little deductions, for equipment, clothing, health care, etc...like the old company stores and housing.

[goclark]

31. What percent of the miners are minorities?

Just wondering ~ I can't recall seeing photos of any but I may be wrong.

I am surprised that this mine was not union.

[Lyric]

34. In that part of the state, I don't know.

Up here in Monongalia County, there are some minority miners. I have extended relatives who are black and are also coal miners. Of course, the northern part of the state (Morgantown metro area) is a bit different in terms of demographics and political attitudes than the southern part of the state.

[goclark]

35. Thanks ~ I did a search just now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_Coal_Company

I asked the question originally because when I saw the $70,000 rate of pay,I thought about how difficult it would be for minorities to get jobs like that - no matter how dangerous.

I pray for the families of the Miners.

[TwilightGardener]

37. I don't know, but you'd have to pay me more than that to work in a hole in the

ground that could collapse and become my grave at any time.

[Lugnut]

40. My husband never did.

Even with a Saturday shift that was OT he usually made about half that amount.

[ingac70]

41. Probably including benefits. But so fucking what?

The workplace should still be made safe.

[gvstn]

47. Exactly my point

I just posted a lengthier reply but the gist is that it bothers me that they keep inserting the $70K/yr info into the story like that somehow makes it less horrific. It seems to be repeated on all the stations as somehow that should make us less concerned about safety violations. It sounds to me like they are saying, "Yes, we are reporting that Massey had 30 safety violations last month but that's OK because the miners have good jobs and knew the risks." It rubs me the wrong way each time I hear it.

[Cleita]

46. It's a good job money wise because of the risks involved.

My dad went into the mines back at the turn of the last century at the age of fifteen because it was the only decent job he could get with a fifth grade education. Even in well run mines because they are dealing with explosives, things can go wrong. In this particular instance, safety and rescue precautions hadn't been met so there was a larger death toll than wasn't necessary.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. It's not a "salary" if it is predicated on massive overtime.

The danger inherent in the job should justify a rate of pay more than twice that.

Think about it this way;
option 1) at age 20 take a job in front of a computer. Sell your life-hours 40 hours a week for 40 years, live another 20. You sell 83,200 hours of your life to finance the other 440,000.
option 2) at age 20 take a job in a coal mine. Sell your life-hours 60 hours a week for 30 years, live another 10. You sell 93,000 hours of your life to finance the other 255,000.

If the job shortens MY life hours by half, it'd better be a good paying gig. Like NFL pro-bowl good.

[WolverineDG]

49. If they do, they're still underpaid nt

[Greyhound]

51. Do you expect corporate media to "report" anything that makes corporations look like parasites?

The parasite class is a little nervous right now, so expect a larger than normal barrage of "corporations are good citizens" and "we're all so lucky to have these corporations taking care of us" stories.