I think it is lost

[Syrinx]

Our country has been lost, in my estimation.

We have an African-American president. The most articulate, persuasive president in my memory, that says all the right things, everything I want to hear.

Still, we have been swallowed up.

Even in our, and Obama's, great victory, the healthcare bill, it turned out to benefit the corporations more than the people.

Even our greatest leaders have determined that they must compromise.

Compromise with theft. Compromise with greed. Compromise with evil.

Tears are streaming down my cheeks as I type this.

Congress is owned by the corporations that pay them off.

Every time that we pass a bill that helps the people, we have to help the people that stole the money twice as much.

And that includes Max Baucus and the people like him.

Isn't there a bill we can pass without worrying about Microsoft.

Can't we just pass legislation that will help the people?

Even on CSPAN, they stifle the calls for reform. "Thanks for the comments..."

Rise up.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Talk is cheap. I don't care what Obama says. Substance should be more important than style. nt

[Solomon]

28. LOL You said it.

Talk is cheap.

:rofl:

[HughBeaumont]

2. "But see, where's the PROFIT in that? Where's the ROI? How does it help ME ME ME ME MEEEE??"

And that's why this country will go NOWHERE. It's run like a public-traded company; and just LIKE a public-traded company, ONLY the major shareholders prosper while peons like us get left with the risk, loss and bill.

[Lerkfish]

4. excellent analogy.

[Greyhound]

47. That's what Raygun said he'd do and we thought that sounded like a good idea.

You can't fix stupid.

[babylonsister]

3. Tell that to the people who will benefit once HCR is up and running, and

the clinics are operational. This IS legislation that will help the people. Sorry, but you give up way too easily imo.

[Lost4words]

7. sorry I been watching this trend fro 30 years. we have no HRC

I have no work I am on my wifes ins but she kicking me out because I cant find work, but besides that when I go to the Dr. I have top pay a $25.00 co pay. Ok so that might not be so bad but I have gotten bills from the Dr's as the ins doesn't cover the total. So a recent trip to a dermatologist, $25.00 co pay and now I get another bill from the Doc for $147.00 That the ins didn't cover. So my trip to the dr with coverage cost me $172.00 and the planters wart is still going strong, if it gets any larger I'll have to name it.

Oh yes I had ti have blood work done , went to tricor, later got a bill for $57.00 with no income this is no fucking help at all.

We have been screwed by a slick talking politician, and in the end we are worse off. Nothing prepared me for this level of disappointment. this admin sucks as much as the last one, no change do I see.

So with Ins , I pay $172.oo for no results Plus the extra 57.00 for the blood work Where is reform. Net Net, even with Ins coverage I cant afford it. Total $229.00 for no stinking results.

Obama is Bush in a more intelligent, articulate wrapper, nothing fukin more! To hell with this wolf in sheep clothes administration.

[NNN0LHI]

21. All your insurance and medical problems are President Obama's fault?

Including your planters wart? Who do you think you are talking to here little kids or something?

Don

[dionysus]

29. grammar. you need to learn it.

:rofl:

[Lost4words]

8. I wish I could agree with you but I cant, this HCR sucke big ones unless you are an INS CO.

nt

[Lost4words]

9. DUPLICAte

[Lost4words]

15. the only people helped out with this are the Insurance Companies.

were screwed plain and simple.

[babylonsister]

23. You seem to want to remain willfully ignorant...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x259045

Insurance Pool to Offer Reduced-Rate Coverage

[laughingliberal]

39. Yay!!! Reduced Rate Coverage!!! We win!!!

Except I kept hearing this 'win' was what we needed to move towards 'improvement.' Now all I see is more talking points defense of the bill that passed and no talk of making any improvements. Not different than what I expected, really.

[babylonsister]

42. Must be liberating for you to be so cynical; I imagine you don't

have any pre-existing conditions and are gainfully employed. Lucky you. I only wish so many of us were in the same boat and could afford your 'glee'.

[laughingliberal]

46. Well, that's what happens when you assume, I suppose

I've been unemployed for 2 years. Husband had just been diagnosed with cancer just before I lost my job. Managed to scrape up the $1200 per month for the COBRA (I was covering him. He was self employed and when he turned 50, his private policy became prohibitively expensive). We managed to scrape it up until he finished his cancer treatment and then we had to drop it. Did drain the pittance that was left in my 401k and every credit line we still had available. Put the business into bankruptcy by the time it was over and we have no income to speak of now but we feel fortunate he's alive. We thank our good fortune we managed to pay the premium until his cancer treatments were finished and we just pray it doesn't come back as we are unable to have any followup testing done. I have preexisting conditions, as well. But we're never going to be in a position, financially, to pay the premiums again. Would probably be best not to wish many others were in the same boat as us. Problem is many are and the bill did not go far enough in helping that.

Again, it seems all the talk of 'first step' and 'passing the bill so we can start improving it' was just clever propaganda cause it's all about defending it and nothing about making it better since it passed.

[laughingliberal]

31. "Millions helped! Historic!!!" Move along. Nothing to see here

Funny how all the talk of 'first step' and having to pass the bill in order to 'start improving it' seemed to disappear as soon as it was passed.

[TheKentuckian]

56. Self ,it is bullshit the way this went down. Never forget it.

[DCBob]

5. I happen to think compromise is a good thing.. especially in the situation we are in now..

This country is headed towards chaos and/or civil war if we (conservatives, liberals and moderates) dont learn how to coexist together peacefully and respect one another.

[Lost4words]

10. I not going to learn to work with those who are trying to kill me

as far as I am concerned thats where its headed and I welcome the opportunity to give some back.

[DCBob]

22. If you really feel that way then you are part of the problem..

[Greyhound]

48. When was the last time any of you capitulators ever showed any respect for any view but your?

How many compromises on our part are we expected to make with no give from the other side to satisfy you sense of "bi-partisanship"?

[Bucky]

6. I'm sorry you feel so bad. I see progress happening slower than I want, but still progress.

Can't we just pass legislation that will help the people?

This legislation is going to help me in a lot of ways. I won't get shafted on a pre-existing that shouldn't matter, but still does last time I tried to switch insurers, I can enroll my 19 year old on my plan instead of an exorbitant fee through her college, and my aunt is getting some new benefits on her medication. Don't tell me this legislation isn't helping people. I just named you three in my family.

[Lost4words]

11. Oh I'e seen progress, the 30 rip off of the working class!

and it continues.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. Oh, the humanity!

[Lost4words]

16. that was a worthwhile post NOT!

:silly:

[Greyhound]

49. Wow, content free derision. What a surprise. n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. Oh, my feelings are hurt

You big bully!

:rofl:

[piratefish08]

13. "that says all the right things, everything I want to hear."

you just summed up everything that is wrong in Washington.

[Dr Morbius]

14. There's no finish line.

This isn't a game which ever ends. There's no finish line. We never crossed the Rubicon. I will grant you this: I too am a bit disappointed. We won two straight elections and still it seems like we're getting nowhere.

But the ship of state had run aground. Just getting it off the sandbar is a major accomplishment. There is only one possible way that your thesis can be true: if we all give up and consider it a lost cause. If we give up, the bad guys DO cross the finish line, and we are the ultimate losers. Can we pass legislation that helps people without greater benefit to the special interests? I don't know, but I know this: we'll keep trying.

We knew, or at least most of us on the left knew, that simply winning in 2008 wasn't going to change anything. We knew going in that in November of 2008 what we won was an opportunity, and we knew we couldn't waste it. And it looks like that opportunity has been wasted, but it hasn't, really. The opportunity wasn't properly exploited. But there is still most of a year between now and the next congress. The opportunity is still there, and the President and the Speaker are moving to pass other legislation.

Meanwhile, we must keep working to get both of the Houses back from the corporations. Those are our representative bodies; we must not rest until we regain them. We haven't yet lost, and we won't lose until we quit. That's my opinion.

[Lost4words]

18. isnt gonna happen, we dont have their war-chest! Cant be done.

and the corporations are gonna use the advantage the SC gave them to insure they get their guy, whether its a DEM or Puke its all the same today, only the names change.

[Echo In Light]

17. It's been this way a long time but has gotten so brazen that more mainstream people are...

... forced and/or willing to acknowledge it - as opposed to just those of us at the margins i.e. weirdos, lower class, conspiracy theorists, etc. A rep democracy is only as strong/healthy as the populace that comprises it makes it, and ours has been lulled to sleep via cultural familiarity (brainwashing).

[Lost4words]

19. good post, thanks for not sunny siding, I m sick of it! nt

[Echo In Light]

20. I suspect age has much to do with it

[Greyhound]

50. Yes, after watchng the endless re-run for a couple decades or more,

you get to know how the show ends.

[HughMoran]

24. We will survive

We always do.

[laughingliberal]

32. We? Mouse in your pocket? There are those who are not going to survive this

Millions knocked out of the middle class who will not likely ever find their way back. Millions more workers who will not find work which pays what they formerly made. Optimism has its place and, of course, is much easier for those for whom the current situation is just a news story. Those who have spent a year or 2 watching their life or the life of their loved ones go down the drain find it more difficult to keep believing as they watch one policy after another that would help the average person compromised away in favor of the money class.

Even some in the administration admit it will be years before unemployment returns to the levels we saw before the crash.

[HughMoran]

34. We will survive

We always do.

[laughingliberal]

37. Well, the 'we' that includes me and my husband may very well not

survive. "We' are still managing to raise enough to feed ourselves but not much more and there is no guarantee 'we' will be able to continue to even earn that much. "We" also are only managing this well due to a friend who has provided us the use of his couch to sleep on for the past year.

I think it comes down to who you define as 'we' and your definition of 'survive.' I guess the fact that 'we' are still drawing breath and not dead, yet, may constitute 'survival' but it's piss poor existence for 2 people who worked as hard as we did for as many years as we did.

And, true to form, I fully expect you to just keep repeating your, "We will survive. We always do," which I can only assume means those who you consider important will survive. Many will not but it appears they are of no concern to you. Why not? "We" are of no concern to our elected officials, either.

edited punctuation

[HughMoran]

41. Can I make a broad statement that we as a country will pull out of this without

having to express that I feel for each and every person who is suffering during this major downturn? I lost my job of 15 years and had to do some contract work in-between taking my current position which includes a 30% pay cut. I'm sorry for your situation and if I can help in any way, let me know. A good friend of mine recently had a major spinal cord injury and a fund-raiser is being held for him. If we had the healthcare system that we all would like right now, this would not be necessary, his rehabilitation and other needs would be covered by government guarantees. Unfortunately, this is not the situation - and until it is - all that can be done is for those of us who are working to pitch in and help him. Even though I am barely getting by myself, I will not not hesitate to give to help my old friend until it hurts. Just like we have perhaps a few hundred people who can't agree on anything here at DU on a daily basis, we have a group in Congress who are no better at agreeing on what/how much to do for the people of this country. Congress includes a significant minority of Republicans who could care less if you live or die. In spite of this, necessity will drive us to not necessarily get what we want, but we may be able to at least get what we need if we stay focused and work together. I won't apologize for using the term 'we' - we are all in this together whether we like it or not.

[laughingliberal]

53. Thank you for that thoughtful response

And I wish you the best in turning your situation around. My husband and I are cut from the same cloth. We have no idea, most of the time, where our next job will come from. Even when we finish a decent job and have a little money, we have no idea how long that money must last. Maybe the phone will ring and we'll get a dining room suit or kitchen cabinets in to finish and we'll have more money in 2 or 3 weeks or maybe this is it and this money will have to last forever. Summer of 2008, our phone rang not once and my husband (60 years old at the time and being treated for cancer) spent every day in the Nevada desert cutting up old cars and D9 CATs with a blow torch to sell the scrap metal so we could eat. Unable to deal with the pressures of nursing after 26 years, I was doing a little commissioned sales but made less than $1000 for the entire summer. With all that in mind, a niece called on Friday who had been wandering the streets for 2 weeks, too embarrassed to let anyone know she had been evicted. The termperatures were dropping and snow was predicted. As I said, we are bunking in with a friend without whom we would be sleeping in our truck. We have very little help to offer although, in the past, we were the members of the family who could usually help out. We did find a nephew whose family was out of town who was able to take her in for the weekend. Then, today, we called a friend who owns a motel in town and he agreed to give us a discount on a room for her for a week. So, we took a little of our very limited funds and paid for that so she can get off the streets during this cold snap we're having.


As for the Republicans, they have never cared if any of us lived or died if we're not doing something to enrich them or their donors. The truly shocking thing to me over this past year has been to see how many of our Democrats seem to be cut from the same cloth. This, I think, is what has pushed many over the edge into giving up. I'm still fighting. But I'm not surprised many have become among the irretrievably discouraged.

[HughMoran]

60. Thank you as well

I hope things get better for you and your husband as well.

[Romulox]

35. Who is "we"? I don't want to be a part of the "we" killing children in the East and forcing

corporatism down our throats at home. :hi:

[Newest Reality]

25. Wasn't HCR just a bailout for the insurance companies?

Overall? That's the trend, but it looks like they have to be more creative with it, hence people call this progress because there appears to be a little "regulation" thrown in. We have to wait and see just how that will pan out, as well. Loopholes!

[Romulox]

36. Yes, precisely. nt

[Echo In Light]

38. Loopholes & a L O N G track record of Profit Over People

Don't trust your own lying eyes!

[Echo In Light]

40. .

[WilliamPitt]

26. You're right. I give up.

[progressoid]

27. You know that CSPAN is owned and operated by the cable companies right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSPAN

[blindpig]

30. Rise up

Tear it down.

k&r

[Romulox]

33. Apathy is the expected (and the desired) response. nt

[jotsy]

43. Found my daughter's Ipod, thought it was lost, but it was just well misplaced

We didn't find where or how we might have expected to.

What has failed are the guardians of governance, more historical than current ones, but they govern from the same frame, a solitary vein feeding a dominate corporatocracy who likely threatens rare champions of progress for the people with the well being of those very same people. We have no faith in our leaders because we perceive they fail to show any faith in us. I voted for Obama, cried hopeful tears of joy as I listened to his speech on election night, driving home from covering the news of it at the radio station. Still get chills as I recall the exuberance in the anticipation of a contemporary brand of leadership. But the problems we face are bigger than one competent, charismatic and confident politician can overcome as there is no practicality for a public in the common place practices of political consideration.

Lost, no we'll find it like we do other missing things, hopefully while we still need it.

[ecstatic]

44. A win would have been what...? free insurance?

I would have LOVED having access to free insurance. Unfortunately, our society is based on capitalism. And our government is not equipped to add millions to their rolls considering they can barely handle Medicaid and Medicare right now. The truth hurts.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

45. what ill-informed nonsense

A win would have been single-payer coverage for all Americans.

As far as your "analysis" of our society, I challenge you to find the term "capitalism" ANYWHERE in our founding documents. I'll be here, waiting.

[Greyhound]

52. Not holding your breath are you? n/t

:hi:

[Greyhound]

51. Yes the truth does hurt.

Why don't you come back when you have some.

[Naturalist111]

55. This country was founded on those very ideals. Nothing

has changed and nothing will until the people change.

[walldude]

57. We are in deep shit there is no doubt..

And a simple turnaround isn't going to help us. We have some serious fucking karma to pay back.

[TheKentuckian]

58. Apathy is death but trying to win their game by their rules might be more insane

and no more effective.

Unmitigated greed comes hammer and tongs for the full loaf everytime. There will be no compromising or 'chessing' our way out of the hole.

[MisterP]

59. it depends on one's definition of "win": to a leftie or someone more liberal than Nixon, "win" means

"a good law, without gaping horrors or 'compromises,'" especially since good leadership can, y'know, just outlast a filibuster or nudge a few Republicans with promises of looking populist--but this only works with a populist bill

to loyalists and centrists, "win" means "sponsored by the right party," regardless of substance; since they're incrementalists, they're happy with any Zeno's arrow, as long as it's "heading in the right direction." they'll then scream that you'd be dissatisfied with the Civil Rights Act and the New Deal, and flounce off to draw pictures of God giving up His throne in the clouds to Harold Ford, or whatever it is that zealous enforcers do. if a bill makes Boehner and the tweakerbaggers frothing angry, it HAS to be good! for conservadems, if it makes "both sides angry" it has to be even better. this is the same mode of thought that reasoned that McCarthy was bad--because he was hurting anticommunism by making it look partisan and scattershot! (see Carol Polsgrove, "Divided Minds: Intellectuals and the Civil Rights Movement" and Christopher Brookeman, "American Culture and Society Since the 1930s")