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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:11 PM
Original message
I remember the 60's....
Edited on Fri Apr-02-10 04:18 PM by WCGreen
I remember the day JFK was shot. I was going to a Catholic School at the time and even though it was almost at the end of the school day when he was shot, the nuns let us all go home to be with our families. Curious that most, if not every kid in my class, had a mother to go home to at the time.

I remember when the Vietnam War was starting to escalate and the kids, yea they were kids, 17 - 18 - 19 year olds started to question why they had to go and fight and perhaps die when no one could explain why. I also remember that the kids that were going weren't in college. They were kids like our fathers, mostly working at Blue Collar jobs.

I remember vividly the day they pulled the numbers for the draft Lottery. I was at a camp for city kids and we were at Mohican State Park. Most of the counselors were from over at Ashland College and in their senior year. One of the guys birthday was pulled real quick, I think it was below 10th. He ran off into the dark woods to be alone. Every one of us were scared for him, scared for all our older brothers and cousins and uncles and family friends.

I remember when the inner urban areas of Detroit and LA and scores of other cities across the country erupted when passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Laws were passed and nothing much changed. I remember when Martin Luther King and then Bobby Kennedy were shot down for standing up for the least among us.

I remember the Huff and Glenville areas of Cleveland when racial tension exploded into almost open warfare. I remember rumors of "Niggers" driving through our town Lakewood, which borders Cleveland, with signs saying Lakewood was going to be next. My dad carried a big chunk of brass in his car because he had to travel all over the city to do his job.

I remember the Anti-War protests and the extreme measures the Weathermen and other radicals groups escalated their protests into violence and bank robberies.

I remember when the Black Panthers came on the scene and frighted everyone with their separatist racial rhetoric.

But most important, I remember the calming voices Huntley and Brinkley and Walter Cronkite provided to help us get through some really tough and explosive change. There was no Rush or Fox or Glenn Beck on the national level to stoke it all.

The sixties had radicals on both sides, extreme leftists such as the Weathermen and Black Panthers and the good old boys all over the country that just did what they pleased because no one was watching.

There is mass unease in the country today. But it wasn't anywhere near the volatility that was surging through the whole country at every level and in every city. Change was everywhere and constant.

There needs to be some historical perspective. And remember, most of the protesting in the 60's was peaceful. We tend to remember the bad while forgetting the good.

Peace.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. I find that a shower and a brandy with milk get me past this
It's HELL having this sweep of history in your head!
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's that old Chinese curse..
May you live in interesting times...
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. But why do interesting times come in 5 or more dimensions?
Really, I just can't keep up.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I was just reading this: Wash Post 22 May '94:Clinton Foes Voice Their Disdain Loud and Clear
"On Talk Shows and in Angry Mail, 'Visceral Reaction' to President Seems Unusually Intense."

It's all an ugly repeat - IF you know history.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. What has changed from then is that fox is now on the scene...
A lot more money and effort is being put forward that is "separate" from politics. In 1994, it was all Newt and his contract and the radical right supported that strategy.

Now, it's more about Rush and Beck et al that are leading the charge. They can go a lot further than Newt did to stoke the faithful. Sarah Palin is the focal point and she is not a sitting politician.
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Go2Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
35. and it is almost impossible to "drop out". You could live on nothing and get work any time
you needed it.

It is much harder to live an "economically" alternative life than it has been in the past. That helped launch the movement. People dropped out, worked part time, partied, had fun, and then travelled across the country on occassion for important events.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #35
59. Today's atmosphere
makes me turn to the life of a hermit/recluse.

People don't seem to want to have fun or party anymore...maybe I'm just tired of dealing with the Willfully Ignorant.
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #35
89. Not impossible . . . but have we have lost ability to trust and share?
If a group of people wanted to live cooperatively, it could still be done. You have to pool your resources and cut down on the competitiveness. Also, bartering was big back in the day, but you had to be able to live without a lot of conveniences that we've since become addicted to. Our little group didn't even have a tv until Watergate. In our culture, we all pride ourselves on being "individualists" and I wonder if we've lost the ability to live nicely, cooperatively with others. Immigrants from some other cultures can do this - they work together and rise together.

I agree that political involvement takes resources - money, free time (e.g., your can't have goats to milk twice a day) - but "dropping out" can still be done. In the 60s, dropping out meant leaving politics behind. I think once Nixon was elected in '68, people who didn't want to be violent headed for the hills. The trouble is that, if a group of people living together start to get overtly political, they become a target. Rumors are spread. The townsfolk get fearful. So getting involved in local events and churches and laying low politically was the MO of many people living in groups in the 60s.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nicely said. nt
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. i remember the 60's too. like yesterday.
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. I came of age in the 60's...
In a different way than you did...

I finished college, got married, had a child...

While the world seemed to erupt all around, just as you've described...

I worried that my husband would be drafted but we dodged that one. Essential industry, father, husband, all saved us from that...


Beautifully written, as always...

K&R

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. On Huntley, Brinkley, and Cronkite...
You never, ever knew what side of the aisle they sat on... they never clued you in with personal views of any kind. The only time I ever saw either of them get personal was when one of their writers got a story wrong... it pissed them off.

All I remember of the Watts riots was my mother crying, and the black and white images of violence and fire on the TV. I was a very young girl... 1st grade, if I recall correctly. It leaves an impression when your folks are up all night keeping an eye on distant fires.

My favorite memories from those days are about the music... Joan Baez in particular.



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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Ah, yes, indeed! AND, Joan Baez is coming to Denvoid! Sure wish I could go see her!
I played her records incessantly in 1963, 1964. She was my first sheroe.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. I just bought 2 Baez albums
because I sometimes have to make long road trips in order to do some very sad work, and it's nice to be able to escape back into times in which I had more hope.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Back in 2004, I won one of those PBS contests they run to get people
to donate...

I had just been released from the hospital after 33 days. Mrs. WCGreen told me that while I was out of it in the hospital, the letter came that we had won. Part of the package was two great tickets to the Joan Baez concert...

It was one of the first times I went out with my big O2 tank.

It was wonderful, she was great, talented, funny and still passionately involved with the good fight...
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. What a wonderful woman, what talent, what...humanity!
Baez, Dylan, Simon & Garfunkel, Arlo, Country Joe...my artistic heroes.
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #44
70. A little off topic: Just saw Arlo and his family at the Southern Exposure Art Fair
in St. Johns County, FL two weeks ago. He puts on a terrific show.

His daughter got a surprise roar from the audience when she sang this cute little song and launched into to the chorus: "Sh** makes the flowers grow..."

Also saw him about ten or so years ago at the Gamble Rogers* Folk Music Festival (http://www.gamblerogersfest.com/) at the St. Augustine Amphitheatre. He was the featured performer that year. He really is worth going to see and the price of the tickets if you have the opportunity.

*http://www.gamblerogers.com/life/

"The stories I tell are all true except
the few that are obviously whimsy."

Gamble Rogers has been described by journalists coast-to-coast as:

"An American treasure ... an awesome talent ... one-hundred percent enjoyable ... a rare and guaranteed treat ... worthy of inclusion in the Smithsonian."
High praise for a man who refered to himself simply as a modern-day troubadour and folk singer. "I have been incredibly fortunate in being able to make my living doing what I love -- entertaining," the native Floridian once said.

Steeped in the oral tradition of storytelling and philosophical humor, he first gained national prominence as a member of the Serendipity Singers, playing lead, acoustic and electric guitars. Music led to storytelling, as the band asked Gamble to be their spokesman. He introduced and verbally set the stage for their songs when they appeared on television shows such as "The Tonight Show," "Hootenany," and "The Ed Sullivan Show."

After approximately two years with the Singers, Gamble left the group returning to the south to concentrate on his development as a solo performer. He continued to refine his storytelling craft, unique in its colorful cast of characters, settings and philosophical humor. Gamble's work has been compared to that of Mark Twain and Will Rogers, and his humanistic perspective seems destined to survive beyond his years.


I met Gamble Rogers a few times. My husband knew him better than I did. He was a tall man. One had to step back a bit to look up to see his face. He died way too soon in October, 1991 at Washington Oakes State Park, when he made an attempt to save a person who was caught in a rip tide.

Gamble tells a story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RDa_jkrEaI&feature=related
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
68. Thanks for posting these pictures.
Joanie was so beautiful back then. She still is, but in a different way.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
74. My favorite memories from those days are about the music.
YES... art had power then.... it was a vital part of life. It still is but now art is promoted as a luxury... not worth the country paying for. And a lot of the time you had to "meet it halfway"... y'know, bring something of yourself in to "get" it. Now it's all spoon-fed entertainment. Just sit there and it will not be anything to think about, just "beautiful music" or comedy (usually at the expense of someone else... like American Idol which is 98% about destroying someone's dream.... and making fun of the clueless and untalented, most of the show being about who loses before it's about winners.) I understand this.... people work 2 and 3 jobs.... they are tired when they get home, they don't want to have to figure something out... they want to relax with something familiar. Sedated.

It's hard for Lady Gaga to protest excess or anything serious while changing into an new (stupid) costume every 5 minutes.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #74
101. The music was great...
and meaningful, well most of it anyway, it still means something today.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #101
106. my car radio is tuned
to the classic rock station. brings back so many memories -- some good, some bad.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
97. Recently I saw a documentry on her
She is one heck of a woman..
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lillypaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. I remember watching trial coverage of the Chicago Seven
at "The Peoples Workshop" in Oklahoma City; on a dirty mattress, I might add. There is a street in inner city OKC called "The Paseo" - it was, and is an artist's community. Back then, the district attorney, Curtis Harris (can't believe I remember his name), called out cops and police dogs to patrol this street that ran about 2 blocks - damn hippies!

I saw the Doors live, and Janice Joplin, and and and ...

it was a weird, but rejuvenating time. Up against the wall, motherfuckers!
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Dyedinthewoolliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. That pretty much sums up my take too.
We must be about the same age. I keep wishing to wake up and discover a voice of reason that most people will listen to and trust. Giving us a balanced picture of what is happening in our country and our world.
But alas, the media of today is not what we grew up with. We have no Edward R. Murrow who finally shamed Joseph McCarthy enough for action to be taken against him the 50's. No Cronkite to narrate the images from Vietnam. We are fragmented and divided. That's just how they want us.......
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
48. MSNBC Rachel Maddow

I really like her, and Keith Olbermann too.

I don't watch much on regular TV.
CBS has Katie Couric
ABC has Diane Sawyer
NBC has Brian Williams

But none of the 3 on regular TV really tell it like it is. The important things are glossed over, or not even talked about.

It seems like everyone knew what was going on in the sixties. Today, most emphasis is on those silly reality shows. People don't pay much, if any, attention to what is going on in the world.


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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
102. There's a reason for that
Back then, news shows were considered a public service show and were not expected to turn a profit. Their job was to present the news, nothing more. We need that again -- objective, informed voices telling us exactly what was going on, without spin.
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gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. I lived through that time too.....
I was 15 when JFK was shot. I began demonstrating against the Viet Nam war at about age 17 or 18. My friends were being drafted or they were enlisting and one had died. I remember the courage of the civil rights activists and Bull Connors and his cowardly physical attacks on them which he knew they would not counter violently.

I remember the Watts riots and neighbors arming themselves, against what really I don't think they even knew. You can't kill poverty and desperation with a rifle. Only the people who suffer from it.

There was a major shift in values and morality as there had been in the 1920s. My friend's mother had grown up then and the loosening and opening up of society that she described was a lot like what we were going through.

I remember the assassinations of men I admired. People who could have made a difference going down one by one before they had a chance to live out their potential.

I often wonder how much different things would have been if there had been some way to keep the momentum for hopeful change going; how much different things would have been today. But Nixon put the cork in that with a vengeance and we all began to slide downhill with Baby Bush as our nadir.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Good point...
I was in my "wonder years" so to speak but my parents were engaged and talked about what was going on.

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gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Thanks .....
I like your footer. It reminds me of my Dad. He called all of my boyfriends "Ape Hangers." Sometimes Dads do not appreciate the finer things in life.;)
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
78. But Nixon put the cork in that
I remember the sixties....but I was a teenager and 21 in the 70's and I can assure you Nixon and the Watergate scandal made many of us cynical and wanting to just drop out of it all.

Carter was amazing to me! But he wanted us all to drive 55! Can't have that! If we had been doing the Carter thing for the past 30 years instead of the Reagan "greed is good" thing, imagine where we'd be today! Anyway.... no more of that feel good, come together Carter crap. Reagan tapped into the nation's inner greed. Carter was a Liberal aberration the Nixonite Repugs destroyed after one term. Clinton was to be the same kinda thing....a one term aberration. But when he won a second term, the Right freaked! So we got Dubya and the Supremes stealing the election because we can't have an interruption of the Repug march to total control! And who ran Dubya's terms? Nixonite Cheney. Nixon was indeed the beginning of the criminal, just lie about it Repugs of today.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #78
116. Hatred of the 60s counter-culture is the passion which fuels the Far Right. nt
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wow, I remember all that too
I remember the Detroit riots, and it was really strange living a couple of miles from what was going on. I remember after high school hearing about different guys getting drafted. I know a number of them that came back, and were never the same.

Today it's different, no one seems worried about the war, because really, most people don't have "skin in the game". If their husbands, boyfriends or sons HAD to be in a lottery to go fight in those stupid, ignorant wars, maybe they would stop this crap.

zalinda
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. You're absolutely right about the skin in the game...
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rtassi Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. I would agree ... No skin equates to apathy ... I'm also weary of hearing
how heroic and patriotic all these young people who volunteer to "defend our country" are .. Most are clueless as to why war even proliferates, and to who benefits most from it. "Universal Soldier"
rt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
91. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. Duplicate post n/t
Edited on Fri Apr-02-10 04:47 PM by zalinda
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zorahopkins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. The Was No Internet Back Then, Either
I loved the calming voices of Chet and David. And I loved John Cameron Swayze, too.

I loved Pricess Telephones -- they came in so many different colors, and they lit up, too!

But there was no Internet back then.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. You said it yourself:
'But most important, I remember the calming voices Huntley and Brinkley and Walter Cronkite provided to help us get through some really tough and explosive change.'

Peace
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. k/r
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. the violence of today has not yet played out in full.
summers always make things worse.

campaign season also makes things worse.

and the results of the election (almost regardless of what they might be) combined with the sustained high unemployment is practically guaranteed to make things worse.


even without the right-wing pro-violence leaders on radio and tv, we'd be heading towards more violence.

we need a historical perspective, yes, and you're correct, we're not now at the level of violence of the '60s.
but we also need to take the long view. things will get worse before they get better.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Of course you are right...
and I do think that the April 19th gun show in VA could very well be a flash point...

But the turmoil in the 60's was about concrete changes in people's lives. This crap about viewing Health Care Reform as a complete change in the very fabric of the country is just going to evaporate when everyone sees there is no real huge nasty stuff happening...

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. the crap about health care itself, yes. but the crap about "socilism", etc., will not
the anger toward the left and even centrist democrats like obama will shift from topic to topic but the underlying hatred will continue and fester, just as they hated clinton for everything he did and spun wild fantasies to stoke their anger accordingly.

only with clinton, they didn't talk about violence, "only" impeachment. now they not only talk about murder, but they don't even talk about impeaching obama, so that they don't think there's a kinder, gentler alternative.

the anti-obama opposition will more closely resemble the anti-clinton opposition than anything from the '60s, i think, only with violence thrown in. just how contained that violence is remains to be seen.

more likely, it will be the NEXT democratic president who faces the culmination of this movement. THAT is going to be ugly.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
50. a lot depends on the economy

Obama is trying to hold everything together, getting various programs to help homeowners, and slow the decline in job losses. But worldwide, everything is being held together by a thread. If something happens somewhere else that ultimately affects us in the U.S., I would think that those still jobless homeless hungry people (and there are millions of them) could be incited towards violence. It could be that Obama might see this uprising.

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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
81. i think, only with violence thrown in
McVeigh wasn't enough violence for you?


Only with RACE thrown in.....
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #81
90. guess i should have said only with RAMPANT violence thrown in.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. I remember those "flower children" of the Sixty
I was a teenager.

They would open their houses without fear, welcoming, so free, eco-system friendly, peace, tied-dyed clothes, braless (they burned bras), head bands, flowers in hair, gypsy-like clothes, guitars, etc. That culture was so popular that it spreaded to UK and other countries.

Until the Charles Manson horror put an end to that great Sixty Culture. That's when they started locking their doors, buying guns, security systems, etc.

Pictures of hippie culture. Some are old, taken in the Sixty, some are recent, dressed as hippies for fun.


Sharon Tate





























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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. no, nobody burned bras. Just a media invention.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. I believe you
that it probably was just a media invention. I never actually saw anyone burning bras. lol
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. No, nobody did, because it didn't happen. Would be good not to repeat stuff
that isn't true.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #42
86. Burned "symbolically"... not actually.
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 11:45 AM by AlbertCat
However, I worked in a big dept. store in the display dept.... y'know dressing mannequins. And I can tell you that mannequins did not have nipples until the early 70's. We had a manager of a branch store in the mall who would put band aids over the nipples so they wouldn't show through those kinana knit blouses!
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #24
61. I love those headbands.....
I still wear them today...but of course they're 'sweatbands' now.

Thanks for the photos....takes me back to a good time.

Who knew things would turn out so crappy....
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
66. They didn't 'burn' 'em. They just stopped wearin 'em! n/t
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
67. dupe.
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 10:00 AM by Fire1
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. Remember the marches and the protests about civil rights and peace protests to end the war?
Those people were not conservatives yet the freepers and the teabaggers of the time used their minions as well as actively participating themselves to stomp and beat these protesters and marches as well as to spit on them and taunt them.

Today, the teabaggers squeal like stuck pigs if someone even looks at them the wrong way.

I think ultimately that one or more of those cowards will find false courage in hiding in their numbers and do something so heinous and evil that it will totally disgust the vast majority of decent independent voters as well as some Republicans also.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
26. good summary but you left out harvey downey and pyne
I remember the 60s as well, and much as you remember them. But rush and glenn and sean weren't on the scene, there were popular conservative commentators, ranging from the low key Paul Harvey to the more inflammatory Joe Pyne and Morton Downey Jr. They had widely distributed shows and there were far fewer outlets back then -- no Internet, half as many radio stations, no cable tv.

They may not have fueled violence, but they were the voice of the so-called "silent majority"
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Downey wasn't around until the late 70's as a talk show host...
I remember when he was here in Cleveland...
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I stand corrected. Time flies.
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
75. Speaking of Joe Pyne
from his wikipedia:

Pyne was rude and confrontational with guests, often attempting to throw them off, but there are stories of the rare times when someone got the better of him. One famous tale is that he lost a verbal duel with Frank Zappa. Pyne insulted Zappa by saying, "So I guess your long hair makes you a woman." Zappa allegedly replied, "So I guess your wooden leg makes you a table." While it sounds plausible, no one who was around at that time recalls it happening, nor is there any evidence that Frank Zappa was ever on the Joe Pyne Show. Internet re-tellings of the story never say when it is supposed to have happened, strongly suggesting it is only an urban legend.

Another urban legend is about what Frank Zappa reputedly ate on stage during a "gross out contest". He said himself the closest he came to performing such an act was at a Holiday Inn buffet in Fayetteville, North Csrolina!

-90% jimmy
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Paper Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. I remember all your points and others too. It was a different time.
I get the feeling as I look back that the protests of the 60's were just that, Protests.
Some peaceful, some not.

Chicago
Kent State


Today so many protests are showcases for hate.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. My mom was a grad student at Kent at the time...
She had taken the spring off because we were moving...
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
87. were just that, Protests.
Indeed. Those people were FOR something.

We know what the Teabaggers are against.... but what are they FOR?
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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
28. I remember the 60s too. They were not the years of peaceful bliss that people
think they remember. I also remember that Rush Limbaugh seems to think that drug use started in the 60s and yet there was drug use in the 50s and even back to the turn of the century. Victorians had chloroform parties and heroin was used long before the 60s. And the magnificent beauty of the Constitution of the United States is that it shows us that our country can survive even assassination of a president and others. RIP John, Martin and Bobby.
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. In the 70s the farmer we rented from (he was about 70 at the time)
walked through our garden and spotted some poppies flowering. He asked if we were going to smoke them and then told us of the people in the 20s, 30s and 40s who used to grow them and make opium from them. He told us how to slice the pods and collect the sap. He said there used to be a group of opium users in the area that ended up pretty wasted.

And this was in central Wisconsin.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #41
88. George Washington & Thomas Jefferson grew "hemp".
Like alcohol isn't a drug.....

And Rush is a drug addict anyway.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. The news was not sanitized and censored the way it is now.
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jotsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. I guess you could say I came of age later, when our guys started coming home.
Though some level of tension is always in the undertow, I tend to wonder if the really pivotal ones are so because they represent a passing of the baton in a generational relay.

Excellent writing that shares the heart with more might than the haunt of the era. Thank you.

k and r
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. Wow, thank you very much....
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
43. During the cold war in the 50s,
the nuns used to scare us with the coming of the Russians. They were going to invade and do bad things to us. They were going to come in 1960.

So, since I totally believed the nuns who would never lie, I laid awake every night during 1960 watching out my bedroom window waiting for the planes to fly over. I swear I saw some a couple times.

Then when at the end of 1960 the Russians hadn't come I had a horrible thought that maybe the nuns actually meant the 1960s. So for nine more years I watched out my window for the Russians. Still no Russians.

That's when I stopped trusting the nuns.

Asshole nuns.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
46. I was a child in the 60's
But I distinctly remember the compassion and intelligence in the media from that time period, definitely a difference when you hear Huntley and Brinkley vs the Faux/CNN talking heads. Cronkite remains a god.

My biggest memory of the Vietnam war were the casualty figures reported during each day's news.

L-
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
47. The decade just got worse after 11/22/63 and the escalation of the
VN War. I was active in the SDS and the peace movement in general and wished the hippies had been more radical. It was great to be vividly counter-cultural but we needed them in the street with us. Sometimes they would come along. The activities I was involved in were not "fun" but they were necessary to raise the general political consciousness of our peers. I think one of the reasons we are in such a bad place now is that a radical nationwide student group was not perpetuated.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #47
63. Students today
are harnessed with College DEBT and care about making $$$$ and 'social networking.' I gotta say I'm disappointed with most of them.

There will be no draft...TPTB learned a lesson about that.

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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-10 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #63
125. The Rulers of the Universe also learned to keep them
in chains and debt slavery. My old college has had its tuition double and this with taking inflation into account. And, of course, paying peanuts to those with liberal arts degrees has taken a toll also. I don't eben know what my niece is amjoring in, something like World Studies.
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Earth Bound Misfit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
49. Kick n Rec
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 07:18 AM by Earth Bound Misfit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJmsoWt-KEc&feature=related

And I've seen it before
And I'll see it again
Yes I've seen it before
Just little bits of history repeating
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #49
83. We were there together, my love
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retread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
51. The Black Panthers frightened you?? You were calmed by news anchors?? n/t
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #51
58. OPer was obviously a kid at the time.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #51
69. Only because I conflated the Black Panthers with the riots that were
going on in Cleveland at the time.

I also remember vividly meeting Carl Stokes, then a state rep, as he was running for Mayor. He went to this Italian Festival my aunt took me to just so I could see him. The West Side of Cleveland, at that time, was 99.99% white and yet waded right through the crowd shaking hands and meeting people.

This was right after the one riot and before another.

Yes, the News anchors did have a calming effect on me because they were larger than life and had a lot more gravitas than the newsreaders of today.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
52. Much of the opposition to the Vietnam War
can be attributed to Sputnik
When the Soviet Union launched Sputnik in 1957 the United States went into panic mode. It was determined that we needed a more educated population so as to keep pace with the evil Soviet threat. Consequently, more school children were slated for college where they learned to think for themselves and ask questions to arrive at a more perfect truth.
The Vietnam War, like the current Iraq fiasco, was started on a false premise. There were people being drafted into the military to fight that war, and most of us, like Dick Cheney, had other priorities, but nonetheless we served when our country coerced us into uniform.
The large influx of college educated into the draft pool caused many to question the validity of the war and massive street demonstrations, along with other creative forms of resistance, made the war untenable for the majority who were seeing raw combat footage on the six o'clock news every night.
We now have an army of volunteers that can't say they were drawn into military service by the law.
The government did pay for my education, but it was an earned benefit. At least I have a lot of good stories to tell.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
53. As I recall Kennedy was shot early in the afternoon. Our school shut down around 1:30
I was surprised to see you say your school was informed late in the day. As I recall I was in my first class (11th grade World History) after lunch and around 12:30 they told us he had been shot, around 1:00 they told us he was dead, and about 1:30 they shut down the school and sent everyone home. This was in the DC area so its eastern time, everywhere else in the country it would have been earlier.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. I was in third grade in St Louis, sent home early as well.
God that was a sad day
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
54. We actually had journalism back then!
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
55. I remember acid had a lot to do with things as well
I remember groups like the Kingston Trio and early Beatles. They all wore matching suits. Very uniform and predictable..Then a "Revolution" happened...That is what Tea Baggers would like to accomplish, but they don't have "Right" on their side..
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
57. Seems like you very young back then, and I think you missed a few things.
Some us who were a few years older actually protested the war and waited for our lottery numbers to be drawn.

Some of us here probably went into that war. I personally know some who never cam back, and others who came back with some big problems to face. One of them killed himself two years ago.

It's not your fault if you were younger and had to have some of the details filled by the establishment sources that apparently informed your "equivalence" between the Black Panthers (whose story includes a systematic effort to exterminate them carried out by the federal government) and the "good old boys" who included the KKK, police, FBI, and federal and state officials throughout the land who violently enforced racist policies.

I just felt compelled to correct the record.

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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #57
62. I protested the war
and was yelled at by all the old vets back then. My husband was so afraid of the draft even though he was in college (1970) that he joined the Navy, he wanted to choose what branch he would be in. He actually stayed in for 20 years and retired due to Dick Cheney being Secretary of Defense.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #62
103. "retired due to Dick Cheney being Secretary of Defense."
I can understand that.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. I had relatives in the war...
I think you misunderstood in that I was writing from the perspective of a child. I knew about the good old boys. In fact, in 1971 when I was hitchhiking through a rural town outside of Cleveland, a Friend of mine and I were accosted by a good ole boy who wanted to cut our hair with his knife. We ran to the police station and they said they couldn't do anything about it...

That's why I lumped all the construction workers and self-proclaimed super patriots and the racists and the Birchers and the KKK under one heading because they were essentially given a free pass by the establishment. We knew they were out there but they didn't need to be organized into groups such as the Weathermen or the Black Panthers because they were a de facto part of the establishment.

I thought I made that clear when I stated that "The sixties had radicals on both sides, extreme leftists such as the Weathermen and Black Panthers and the good old boys all over the country that just did what they pleased because no one was watching."

I'm sorry I was a little nuanced on that and probably should have spelled it out better. But since it's coming from my perspective, I wrote about how I saw things back then and not now with my perspective of time and history. It wasn't until latter when I was in college that I learned about how the Black Panthers were targeted. But that was the 70's and I was remembering, as best I could, from my perspective.

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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #65
109. Thanks for responding, I may have been a bit harsh.
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 02:23 PM by freddie mertz
Thing about the early 70s, though, is that it was still the late 60s then.

The Lottery is a case in point. It came in rather late in the game, and I was listening to the radio to hear my number in 1972.

It was a bad number, but Nixon didn't call up many of us in that year, since he was running for re-election on "peace is at hand."

Then the war went on until 1975.

I knew the Black Panthers in Boston and they were basically in their "community organizer" phase, serving breakfast to poor kids in Roxbury.

They were being massacred from 1969 on at the very least, as policy declared by Nixon and Hoover.






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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #57
73. Compliments
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 10:30 AM by 90-percent
My compliments on your sig line!

I got most of the sixties via Time and Life magazine. I was too young, being born in 1954, to experience much. I was also lonely and afraid of everything, especially social stuff. Socially retarded, as Frank Zappa would say.

I have looked back at the times of my youth with a nostalgic lens. - there was so much magical anything goes risk taking in art and music. Subsequently shut down completely by "puds out of college certified as economically smart" to quote Zappa's opinions on record exec's in the following decades.

I do remember liking JFK, maybe just because he was young and good looking and had toddlers in the White House.

i remember AM top 40 getting shoved out of the way in exchange for album rock FM. in the early 60's there were so many dance and music shows in tv. then it all disappeared. most of what i know about it i get from ancient youtube vids.

i remember smoking pot at 17 for the first time and having no memories at all from the experience! drugs were scary and i was very afraid of lsd and mescaline, until about 19 when all the kids were doing it. Social alienation and Acid do not mix! Have not done it since!

DON'T TRUST ANYBODY OVER THIRTY. I never got that much, my parents were mellow and let me do as I pleased. revolting against conformity - left over from the beatniks of the 50's.

So much of what I know about the sixties came from studying the history of it, not from growing up while it was going on.

One thing about the sixties, there was so much prosperity everybody that wanted could get a good job! And so many "hippies" wanted out of all the corporate conformity! Live in communes with tents cooperatively. Now all those same people grew up and many have been climbing the corporate ladder ever since.

And growing up in the sixties skews your historical perspective. The prosperity we took as the norm back then was actually an aberration and most of American history heavily favored the big businesses over the labor force. It was unionism in the thirties and WW2 that triggered the post war prosperity. And the enemy countries like Germany and Japan rebuilt to be better than new that cleaned our clocks in the seventies and beyond. We were the lone economic super power in the fifties and then our world competitors did it better than us and cleaned our clocks! Partially because we lost the lessons of guys like Edwards Deming, who consulted in Japan through most of the fifties and taught them quality concepts that we used in WW2 and immediately forgot as soon as the war ended. Statistical process control is spiffy, but Deming's works have much more to offer than that - particularly his "Fourteen Points".

We're turning back into corporate serfs like the labor paradigm of the American 1890's! And with the Supreme Court ruling last January that corporate money equals free speech, we will all be corporate drones come January 2011 Inauguration Day!

-90% Jimmy
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #73
93. Don't swallow the myths of those you protest
One thing about the sixties, there was so much prosperity everybody that wanted could get a good job! And so many "hippies" wanted out of all the corporate conformity! Live in communes with tents cooperatively. Now all those same people grew up and many have been climbing the corporate ladder ever since.


This is not true - it sounds like it came from the Young Republicans and weekend hippies who did indeed attempt to climb the corporate ladder and now send press releases about history that are distorted and untrue. Are you listening Brokaw? Oliver Stone films are closer to the truth about the youth of that era than MSM boomer "documentaries."

There was a major recession throughout most of the 70s (which is when the "60s" students began entering the job market). My dad lost his engineering job. My mom started working full-time. Most of us new college grads had low paying jobs - and collected unemployment when we got laid off. The corporate ladder? Who are you talking about?
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #73
110. Thanks. And one key point re: prosperity.
YES there was "prosperity" in the 60s, but only for some people.

Grinding poverty was widespread in the inner city and in rural areas.

And activists like MLK and others made poverty their major issue. Also, to their credit, politicians like LBJ and RFK.

Just saying.
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #110
127. Thanks to you both
I do not want to distort the historical record! I also do not want to contribute to misinformation. Thank you for your corrective information. I did get much of my info on what was going on in the sixties from Time and Life magazines. My hero Frank Zappa actually wrote some articles for Life magazine and maybe even Look back then. Hot Rods, Corvettes and dragsters took up most of my share of mind in my youth, not politics.

I grew up near Stony Brook University on Long Island. It was called "the Berkley of the East" by some, but I don't think there was much noteworthy going on there in the protest era. But, for the little attention I paid to all the riots, I was just glad the riots never made it to my neighborhood.

I went to Buffalo State college in the later seventies. It was said that the newer parts were designed to curb student riots and there were secret underground tunnels for the authorities to deal with rioting students.

-90% Jimmy
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #57
128. Didn't the lottery come about in 1970?
I was drafted in mid sixties and there was no such thing as a lottery.
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
60. I remember
it all too. I also was in Catholic school the day JFK was shot and we were let out early. I remember praying all the way home ( we didn't have buses as we went to private not public school) and watching TV for days. My mother did work, it was what she wanted to do. Ah yes, Cronkite, Huntley and Brinkley when NEWS was NEWS.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
64. K & R - this is beautifully written.
I also remember the Sixties, from the perspective of a female slightly older than you. What I mean by that is that I personally didn't have to worry about getting drafted, and I didn't have a brother to worry about either. But every other male my age had to deal with it some way, whether they had student deferments, burned their draft cards (literally or figuratively) or ended up enlisting or getting drafted. I never passed judgment on any of them.

And YES, it was easier to live on a pittance then. You are so right about that! It was much easier to drop out for a while and then drop back in again. There was no such thing as outsourcing, and a general boycott on imports from "Communist China," generally perceived in those days as more dangerous than the Soviet Union.

AND no screaming demogogues like Beck and Palin at the national level either. So for all the turmoil you described, and which I also remember, you didn't have these hyenas fanning the flames.

"It was the best of times; it was the worst of times." I will never forget the Sixties, because they made me the person I am now.
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bobble1 Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #64
79. Sixties...and into the early seventies...
I have oftened wondered why things are not better now. We, the kids of the sixties, are now the ones in "power." We talked about not being materialistic, yet turned into
the biggest consumers in the history of the world. BMWs, Benz' etc. etc. We talked about non violence and peace and equality. Now we watch Iran/Afghanastan, with very little interest and no rage, overt racism in our political debates, a continuning failed war on drugs that has needlessly imprisoned how many people?

I keep coming back to the same conclusion, we failed, by and large, because our view (hippie, for shorthand) was a minority view. It served us well, but never became mainstream. The view, too, did not account for obtaining or the use of power, politically speaking. The death knell for our generation was and is the mega corporation. Corporations exisit for one legal reason, to make money for their stockholders.

News organizations use to be money losers for the networks. Now they seek profit and are controlled by fewer and fewer companies. There use to be limits on how many media outlets a person or company could own. No more. Now the MSM media is controlled by huge corporations, and few of them, the message filtered through the perspective of what will make them money. Truth and news be damned. Remember how horrified we were of the images from Viet Nam? Take a Michael Moore movie out of the equation and what footage have we seen of the horror of the wars we are now engaged in. Out of sight, out of mind.

Those same mega coporations and industries now make us grind for our survivial. Health care costs are ridiculous, if you can even get insurance! Employee retirements wiped out with the slash of a bankruptcy petition or corporate thefts. Mega corporations profiting in ways never imagined from the waging of war! The sixties weren't perfect, by a long shot, but they sure seem better than what we have now.

A few have lived the life they professed was good and moral. Joan Baeza comes quickly to mind. A few of my peers too. But it has been too few, too far apart. I think the best that can be said for those of us who have tried to "keep the faith," is that we have individually lead good and happy lives. I refuse to apologize for any of my life, will measure it against anyone's and am proud to be a "child of the sixites."

I am disappointed that we haven't made more of an impact on our society as a whole.

I could go on and on, but I think one will get the message, at this point. I still believe we were (are) right!

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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #79
92. I found this youtube video called "Dirty F@#*ing Hippies Were Right!"
Of course, they were right, still are!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKEZoY-TMG4
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #92
105. +1 nt
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Deadgnome Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
71. Thank you
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 10:19 AM by Deadgnome
Thanks for putting this into some perspective. I am young, 28, so I do not have the ability to compare the two decades with first-hand experience. Though, as a student of history I have often wondered how this compares to the volatility this nation saw in the 60s. I read a lot of Tom Hayden (things like Writings for a Democratic Society, etc.) and I think it is illuminating as well as is your post; especially with regards to the way the media handled events then and how our faux "media" handles them today.
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divvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
72. big whoop you old fart
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 10:22 AM by divvy
Do you consider yourself special? I mean really, most of us here are of the same vintage.

from one old fart to another .....
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. My aunt called me old fart all the time...
:hippie:
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felinetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
76.  I remember too. Thank you.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
80. It was the best of times; it was the worst of times.
I was 20 when JFK was murdered.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #80
113. i was 22.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
82. Great post WC, I remember all that too
I was too young for school when JFK was shot, but I do remember it all.
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
84. Strange days indeed

I had Lennon Legend on the TV. I started reading this during the song "Happy Xmas". That was followed by "Give Peace a Chance".

What were the chances of that?

OS

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texanwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
85. I just started school in 1960, my view is that of a child.
We lost two neighobr boys in Vietnam, one of them lasted one day.

The 60's had a great influence on me.

I am glad I was old enough to be alive and remember what happened.

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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
94. I was in Catholic school when Kennedy was murdered, too.
Boy, did those nuns cry like babies or what. They loved JFK. The first (and only) Catholic president. It was strange to see them like that. I'd never seen them get so emotional over anything else. We, as students, were freaked out by the sight of so many adults looking so stunned. It was like the 2001 reaction to the World Trade Center collapse, only more personal and intense.

Oh yeah. And Walter Cronkite cried too.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
95. we've had periods of fomenters
McCarthy certainly was one. Think Bachmann with power. 40 million people listened to Father Coughlin's antisemetic, anti FDR radio show. Far more, as a percentage of the country, than listen to Rush et al.


And it is unfair to compare Cronkite to Beck. It's the whole cable news model. It has become irresponsible.

And I too remember all you do. Our protests were mostly peaceful in large part because we have role models we admired, Ghandi and King. The Teabaggers don't like either of those ppl (if they know who they are) so I don't see them looking to them for leadership.

Which may work to our advantage. We learned being peaceful was more persuasive.

I've always been surprised at how much they hated us. Now, 40 years later, I run into ppl who tell me how they saw the protesters in the 60s and 70s as a bunch of insane, stupid, assholes. They absolutely did not see our point. They saw us as sex and drug crazed looneys who wanted nothing but our own hedonistic life style. According to them, we were unpatriotic, slovenly, lazy, addled kids who were trying to destroy everything ever built by and in this country.

Not far off in many respects to how I see teabaggers.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
96. I was born in 1965
The country and world have basically been going to hell in a handbasket without pause since then.

My parents divorced in the early 1970's.

I was in elementary school when Jimmy Carter became president and we were terrified for our hostages in Iran, lining up on alternate days for gas and had urban blight.

Oh yeah, interest rates for homes were really high an it was very hard to get a mortgage. Barely any adult I knew had a credit card. They were symbols of status because it was hard to get them.

People were celebrating the bicentennial. There were a lot of layoffs. We didn't have cable and watched the Donny and Marie show, the Six Million Dollar Man and Charlie's Angels. We ate spaghetti twice a week and cream of wheat in the morning. I wore hand me down tough-skins that were high waters and was beat up for it after school. The black kids in school were the coolest and didn't give a shit about Happy Days and "the Fonz" like the popular kids did. Marni and Desiree did "Stop in the Name of Love" in synchronization just like the Supremes at lunch every day. My girlfriends (not Marni and Desiree-- they were bussed in to school from another neighborhood) and I would take the bus downtown by ourselves. I was a student crossing guard. We pedaled bikes without helmets--everywhere. Me and my brother were on the free school lunch program. My mother was never home, she always had to work. We got government cheese. Generic packaging was black and white. We had no health insurance.

And those were the "good old days".

And I guess me and my friends were the "slackers." At the time, people didn't think it could get worse (except for nuclear war, of course).
Things continued their downward trend.
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riverbendviewgal Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
98. My Husband and I did our peaceful protest too
I remember dancing for joy when JFK won his election. The nuns in my school danced too.
I remember hearing of his assassination in my high school auditorium.
I remember watching LBJ say "I will not run again".
I remember MLK's and Bobby Kennedy's assassination. I watched the train go bye in NJ as Bobby's body was carried to DC.
I remember Kent State
I remember the last one's leaving the US embassy in Saigon.

It was crazy times. I met my husband July 3, 1968 and got married July 27, 1968.
He was a writer, poet, painter, fisherman, builder, hunter, and a peace advocate.
My husband applied for CO status...the Blue haired ladies of Ohio denied him.
He wrote the Justice Department while refusing to show up for the draft.
He was picked up by the FBI and taken to jail for draft evasion.
A month later while in jail he was taken to the draft board near the jail and he was inducted.
He had the highest score of all those that day but red letters were written across his papers.
DO NOT LET THIS MAN lead...
I guess they were afraid he would take all the other guys to Canada.
He was 2nd outstanding man in his company but was denied an assignment where he didn't have to carry a gun.
He was assigned to Advanced Infantry training and then when completed had his orders for Viet Nam.
He went and picked me up and we took the bus to Canada. This was Woodstock weekend August 15, 1969.
and we stayed because of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau letting army deserters stay.
We had two boys born in Canada.
My husband partook in Jimmy Carter's pardon.
We stayed in Canada but still fought the other than other discharge and went to the Pentagon to fight it.
It is an awesome building.
He didn't win but we tried.

He believed in non -violence then and now.
We watched the votes counted in 2000 for Bush and Gore...My husband was dying of cancer, just a year before our younger son died of cancer. We knew that America was really going down a slippery slide when Bush won.
He would have been happy to see that America finally has a health plan for its people. Not as good as Canada's but it is a start. His and our other son illnesses did not leave me bankrupt.

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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
99. Delete. nt
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 01:26 PM by Hansel
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
100. TV watchers of today think
the Tea Party protests are something big. No. They are absolutely nothing compared to commonplace Vietnam war protests. These were huge fucking protests often with ten of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of participants.

Now 200 hundred Teabaggers show up and it is covered on every TV channel and commentators insist the Tea Party movement represents the huge wave of grassroots anger by the average American. IT IS A FUCKING LIE!

The Tea Party movement is minuscule compared to anti-war movement of the 1960s. I watched it, I know.
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Mike K Donating Member (539 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
104. I got out of the Marines in 1960 after four years active.
My two year inactive reserve obligation ended in '62, so I lucked out. My cousin Tommy wasn't lucky and eight months after his eighteenth birthday he was drafted, shipped to Vietnam and was killed two weeks after he got there.

I became a very active protester and I recall my ambivalence toward LBJ who did such good things, such as Medicare and the Civil Rights expansion, but continued to accommodate the Military Industrial Complex by failing to do what Nixon ultimately did.

Now I am ambivalent toward Obama, who is a nice fellow and has done some good things, but he refuses to enable the prosecution of the criminals who preceded him and he won't withdraw from the Middle East.

Even the good ones, including Kennedy, who put us in Vietnam, take a step forward and a step back.

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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
107. I don't remember when those fighting oppression became equivalent to those inflicting it....
I must confess I wasn't around in the 60s. So maybe the concept of false dichotomy and its intellectual dishonesty is a new development?
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
108. The 60's were in 2 parts, remember?
What a lot of the people now associate with the 60s/hippie/protest time was from about '66 on.

Before then, it was pretty much very "uptight and buttoned" for the majority of people.

The change did start with the murder of JFK, but it was '68 when it all seemed to erupt, right on thru to Watergate. At least that was the time frame in my consciousness..I had just turned 18 in Nov. of 63.

what I remember was the optimism.
A pervading sense that we WERE changing the world,
that we COULD make a difference, that equality and civil rights and women's rights and the end to war was possible.
Such optimism.
And for awhile there were glorious changes.

Guess we got complacent around the 80's, huh?




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Mike K Donating Member (539 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #108
114. Regrettably, a stereotype has evolved from that era:
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 02:47 PM by Mike K
What a lot of the people now associate with the 60s/hippie/protest time was from about '66 on.


Actually, the "hippie" segment of the Vietnam protest was in fact the smallest component of the movement. The majority of protesters were rather ordinary Ivy league types, professionals, parents, students, teachers and veterans -- including an increasing number of 'Nam combat vets. Our demonstrations were peaceful and most of our activities consisted of letter writing campaigns and visiting congressional offices.

The "hippie" segment got the publicity because of their bizarre appearance and often belligerent conduct, which sometimes had a counterproductive effect.
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #108
123. I am 60 now and I remember it in 2 parts like you do.
For the complacency, I blame the cocaine plagues.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #108
126. I got pissed off in the Eighties because the rad cadres had vanished
and the conformists had come back and taken over. I felt like the last survivor of a regiment at Gettysburg, rushing along with the Colors and everyone else in the regiment dead, wounded, or fled away.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
111. I was going to say if you remember the 60's you didn't live them but..
that was the 70's and I don't. Came out of my fog about 1982

I grew up in the 60's and I too remember all those things.

Great piece.

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #111
118. I sobered up in 1984....
My drinking and other such distraction lasted from 1975 to 1984...
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. Oh but the stories we could tell
If we could remember.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
112. i'm 68. i remember the 60s.
i got married in 1960, had a child in 1961. got divorced in 1967 just in time for the "make love not war" movement.

when JFK was assassinated i was returning from lunch with 2 co-workers. someone had a car radio on and we heard it just as we were going into the building. when we got upstairs the radio was on. we couldn't believe what we were hearing. my co-worker fainted. she had recently lost her husband. the ride home on the subway was very strange. it was new york city. it was not crowded. i think many firms closed early. i couldn't stop crying.

and then there was martin and bobby. i thought how could this be happening?

my cousin was drafted and served in vietnam. he returned home safe.

the music was great. i listen to classic rock and it brings back many memories both good and bad.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
115. My older sister was harrassed by a cop in 1968 for wearing a McGovern button
I'd say that election was a major factor in setting my political compass. I'm barely old enough to remember JFK, but 1968 still stands out -- especially since I was living in Chicago.

It's difficult to compare the tumultuous 60's with today because the carnage in Vietnam exceeded Iraq & Afghanistan by a factor of 10, and because the teabagger outrage has very little foundation in reality. Mass delusion is dangerous, but it's a house of cards.

Some reassurance can be found in that perspective, but I think as a nation we are much more vulnerable today because we are in decline as an economic superpower. Our massive debt, loss of jobs to cheap labor overseas, and energy dependence has set the table for a potential crash that could have a real and terrible impact on more Americans than anything that happened in the 1960's.

It doesn't help that we are more divided than ever.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
117. i was in the 4th grade everybody was crying walking home.. we all knew it was the end of freedom in
ib a way, even as children..
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kittykitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
119. I grew up in Bay Vllage, but went to San Francisco in 1960 so I share all
your memories, but from a different perspective. I remember seeing JFK sitting on the podium before commencement, smoking a cigar! I participated in sit-ins, Peace marches, attended he first Gathering of the tribes in Golden Gate Park, etc. But returned to Cleveland every year, as there is no better place than the West Side in summer.

Yes, it was pretty peaceful, and full of peace, love and good intentions. I'll take the 60's any day.
There is some kind of pervasive evil afoot these days. The whole world is at risk.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
121. I'd just make this exception to this . . .
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 09:14 PM by defendandprotect
I don't think the Black Panthers were violent --

True, they armed themselves -- and if you're a member of DU you've certainly

seen the 2nd Amendment'ers championing that right!

They were running food programs -- especially feeding AA children who were often

attending school hungry!

Problem was, no one wanted to see AAs armed --

FBI pulled a raid on them and killed them --

Perhaps others here have a better version of that history -- ?

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. One of my posts earlier in the thread addresses why I did this...
I was very young and so I was not aware of the good that the Panthers did until I was older and the Panthers were a distant memory.

The so-called guy behind the Cleveland riots was also more interested in helping his fellow man than fighting the police in the streets. I can't find his name right now but he was the scapegoat for all that went down during those two years of racial strife.

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LeftWingPunk Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
124. both my parents were born in 1951
they remember the 60s well. They said that it was really two decades in one. You had the first half of the decade which was more or less an extension of the 50s and the second half which was when most of the stuff people remember about the 60s happened.
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