Texas Megachurch to Give Out Cars, TVs at Easter Services

[cali]

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter


Sixteen cars, 15 flat-screen televisions, furniture sets and other prizes are lined up at Bay Area Fellowship Church and ready to be claimed by anyone who attends the church's Easter services on Sunday.

Though the church of some 7,000 weekly attendees has regularly flexed its creative muscles to draw the unchurched, the upcoming "Ultimate Giveaway" is like no other outreach it has ever attempted.

Pastor Bil Cornelius, who made the game show analogy, admits it's a bit "outrageous."

But he sees it as "an opportunity to share Christ with people who may never go to a church for any reason," he told The Christian Post.

The prizes are worth over $2 million and are all donated items or sponsored by members of the church. Pastor Cornelius asked the congregation to give and to get their businesses involved for the bold effort. Bay Area members signed up to give cars, bikes, laptops, gym memberships and other gifts.

<snip>

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100402/texas-megachurch-to-give-out-cars-tvs-at-easter-services/index.html

[rfranklin]

1. The Mega Millions Salvation Lottery!

Your ticket to Heaven!

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Who would Jesus give a car to?

[onehandle]

7. A used car lot in exchange for cash. Then he would use the cash to feed and clothe the poor.

He would end up with just the clothes on his back.

All of this is an alien concept to the congregants of a Wal-Mart... I mean a 'mega-church.'

[TlalocW]

15. Jesus probably just borrows his dad's car

A Plymouth Fury.

Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in my anger, and in my Fury, and in great wrath.

TlalocW

[Ikonoklast]

23. Verily, I say unto you, and her name is "Christine".

You don't fuck with the Jesus.

[Dappleganger]

143. Sorry, he walked everywhere or hitched a ride on a boat.

BTW, great joke!

[jmowreader]

119. One of his disciples, probably

Jesus could do a lot more miracles and salvation if he could get around quicker, and he'd realize that.

[Ron Green]

3. Sounds like Pastor Bil never learned about Mammon in his seminary courses.

[YOY]

14. Mammon is their god. They can call him 'Jesus' all they want.

But it's still Mammon.

[JerseygirlCT]

63. Do some of these mega church pastors even go to seminary?

I get the feeling most just hang up their shingle as it were, and claim to be a pastor. They remind me of used car salesmen, though that's quite unfair to used car salesmen everywhere.

[piratefish08]

89. Most start by selling vacuums door to door.

It escalates from there until they own a jet.

Just like Jesus would want it.

[alarimer]

129. This one started as a small operation.

Then they built this huge megachurch on the south side of town. The got the money I guess from the worshippers. I wonder what his house looks like?

I say tax the shit out of these churches.

[spinbaby]

4. I have to wonder what Jesus would think

These people have come so far from anything remotely Christian.

[RKP5637]

8. It's a brainwashing mind-bending freak-out show anymore. Has nothing to do with christianity IMO.

It's now cult religion, domination, control and profit taking. With preachers on an ego power trip. And a gullible flock that can't think for themselves.

[hughee99]

29. Stop talking bad about Oprah! n/t

[Golden Raisin]

31. I suspect these would be

rather similar to those he threw out of the Temple.

[valerief]

5. Raffling Jeebus! nt

[BulletproofLandshark]

6. "The prizes are worth over $2 million..."

How many hungry mouths could have been fed with that much money? That would have been the Christian thing to do, right?

[RKP5637]

11. Right!!! n/t

[Lars39]

18. And all tax deductible, since it's given to "charity".

:puke:

[JohnnyBoots]

9. Yeah, because that's what Jesus would have done...build a

Stadium church and spend funds on conspicuous consumption. I wonder how many poor, homeless, hungry people are in a 5 mile radius of that 'church.'

[Canuckistanian]

10. Yes, because people seeking spritual fulfillment always want a freebie

Sure, I've always WANTED to go to church, but what's in it for me?

[jpljr77]

12. Man, I can't wait for the look on the winners' faces when the church 1099's them next year.n/t

[YOY]

13. There is not one fucking thing Christian about this.

Unless those Cars were going to those who direly needed them and could not afford them. They aren't though, are they?

The TVs??? Jesus Wept.

[AsahinaKimi]

101. Oh come on!!

Everyone knows the TVs are so they can watch FOX NEWS!! It probably only has one channel.
:sarcasm:

[LiberalFighter]

16. They believe that monetary goods will convince others to believe?

Doesn't say much about their belief.

[MajorChode]

25. No, they believe giving out monetary goods will attract people from other churches

It's simply competition for business. In Texas, the success of pastors is judged by how big their mansion is and how many jet airplanes they have.

Here's one of Kenneth Copeland's planes:


“It will never, ever be used as long as it is in our care, for anything other than what is becoming to you, Lord Jesus,”
---Kenneth Copeland

Apparently quite often Jesus' work takes Kenneth to Maui, Fiji, Honolulu, and Steamboat Springs during ski season.

[LiberalFighter]

32. They are still saying that the only way their church is better than another

is the monetary goods they provide and not because their teachings are the truth or better.

[MajorChode]

43. Organized religion has always been for the weak minded anyway

The same sort of people who need someone to tell them what to believe are easy prey for such cheap tricks.

[TheMightyFavog]

58. Doesn't that asshole have an entire Airport to himself?

He's got enough private jets to put a leasing firm to shame.

[MajorChode]

66. Not exactly. I've landed there many, many times

It used to be private, but Copeland made it public to keep people from building communication towers in the approach path and invalidating his private instrument approaches. The FAA requires an airspace study if you want to build a tower near a public airport. It's a really nice airport and a perfect place to practice landings.

As soon as Copeland made it a public airport, I took my plane over there at the crack of dawn and do practice landings for an hour or so. When the wind is out of the north, the traffic pattern takes you right over the top of his mansion. I make sure to leave my prop at the highest RPM so it makes the most noise. It combines two of my favorite activities, which are flying and fucking with Copeland.

One time a friend and I decided to stop there and take a few pictures to show where we had been. Two of his security goons drove over and asked us not to take pictures.

[piratefish08]

17. WWJB

who would jesus bribe to come to church?

[krabigirl]

19. they must be desperate. Tax them already...they obviously have too much money

[KansDem]

20. "...and what's behind Tomb Door No. Two....Jesus?"

Jesus: A BRAND NEW CAR!!!

Congregation gasps: oooh...ahhhh...!!!

[arbusto_baboso]

21. TAX this mother fucking "church" NOW!

If they can afford this shit, they can afford to pay their fair share to society.

[Turbineguy]

22. What kind of car?

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz....

[walldude]

26. Toyota's... they got em' cheap.

[Bitwit1234]

24. I think bachmanns church started that BUT

the preacher at that mega church decided to keep everything him self.

[Initech]

27. Praise Jeebus!!!!!!

You get a car! And you get a car! And you get a car! Everybody gets a car! Everybody gets a car! Everybody gets a car!

[Llewlladdwr]

28. Always good to see the Christian bashing in full force here at DU. NT

[arbusto_baboso]

30. You can justify this, then?

Okay. Go on. I dare you.

[Llewlladdwr]

38. You're kidding, right?

If this saves even one individual's immortal soul then it's easily worth it.

That was easy...

[Lars39]

40. And you handily ignore the fact that the 2M worth of merchandise could

have saved quite a few living people from hardship or death.

[Llewlladdwr]

44. I'm not ignoring that fact at all.

But the church is responsible for the soul as well as the body.

[arbusto_baboso]

47. But if they had SENSE, they'd look after the body first.

That's the difference between christians and pseudo-christians. Since you don't apparently know that difference, I think we know which category you belong in...

[Llewlladdwr]

50. Really?

Mark 8:36: For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

If you believe the focus of Christianity is on the body first and the soul second I think it's you who might be confused.

[arbusto_baboso]

55. Don't throw verses at me.

I can quote you just as many that show a christian is supposed to help his neighbor out materially before even "going there" about the neighbor's beliefs.

I would suggest that if you are more concerned with spiritual welfare than social justice that YOU are very confused, and probably aren't really at home here on DU.

As I recall, the story of the Good Samaritan didn't have the Samaritan asking the belief system of the beaten man before aiding him. I also recall Jesus telling his followers that they should emulate the Samaritan.

I would further suggest that for ANY belief system to insist that spirtual states come before physical needs makes that belief system morally bankrupt just on its face.

[Llewlladdwr]

64. Then by all means quote me a few.

And I'll make this statement: if you are MORE concerned with social justice than spiritual welfare you probably aren't really at home in a Christian church.

Christians have always been taught to place the spiritual above the temporal.

But I guess you consider ALL the world's major religions to be morally bankrupt since they ALL put the spiritual above the temporal.

[arbusto_baboso]

76. The spiritual and temporal are intimately tied to one another.

The attempt by your BRAND of chrsitianity (yes, many christians believe otherwise from you) to separate the two IS THE PROBLEM.

Again, I was educated by Jesuits, so you don't want to get into a bible-quoting contest with me. Especially since the Bible is simply a bad work of fiction.

[Llewlladdwr]

81. I believe Jesus said...

to render unto Caesar that which was Caesar's and to God that which was God's. Apparently He believed in seperating the spiritual and temporal.

[piratefish08]

79. hmmmmmm - doesn't mention lotto cars and big screen tvs. This screams help and share.

Acts 4:32-35.

32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.
33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.
34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales
35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

But what the fuck do I know - I'm just a self-serving atheist.

[Llewlladdwr]

82. So how does this condemn Bay Area?

They are not only sharing their blessings with each other (all the believers, which is the community refered to in the verses you quote) but with anyone who is willing to show up.

[piratefish08]

85. Bay Area is NOT sharing with the needy. Unless the 'needy' show up and are lucky enough to WIN

their 'blessings' by getting lucky in the Jesus Lotto.

But whatever.

The bible is so full of contradictory bullshit, either of us could construct an argument.

[Flying Dream Blues]

122. Sharing blessings? You really are missing the point, but I think you know that. nt

[arbusto_baboso]

59. Furthermore, don't you see the irony in you quoting that Mark verse...

when you are trying to justify the giveaway of "prizes" to get people in church? Aren't you inherently contradicting yourself?

[Llewlladdwr]

67. The irony is escaping me, I must confess.

The church is trying to bring people to Christ. They're using the give aways to get people's attention, a necessary first step in the process.

[arbusto_baboso]

75. Wow. You just don't get it. And no amount of explaining will help you get it.

You need to get over your "faith trumps good works" fundie bullshit ideas. Jesus was a humanist. Any other view of Him is simply self-delusion.

[Llewlladdwr]

78. We're just not going to agree on this, you're right.

As Martin Luther said, "No one can be good and do good unless God's grace first makes him good; and no one becomes good by works, but good works are done by him who is good. Just as the fruits do not make the tree, but the tree bears the fruit...Therefore all works, no matter how good they are and how pretty they look, are in vain if they do not flow from grace".

To each his own, I guess. We'll all know the truth eventually...

[Caretha]

116. I can tell you this

"your Christ" scares the sh*t out of me......

Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedez Benz...my friends all drive Porches, I must make amends...Don't forget the damn color tv either Lord.

Your servant,

Bay Area Fellowship Church wannabe :)

P.S. Do you think this is even "a bit "outrageous."?

[JerseygirlCT]

60. I have to disagree

I don't think the church is responsible at all. I think people are responsible.

But even accepting your premise, how in the world is someone's soul going to be saved by coming to collect a television? Isn't some sincerity necessary?

I'd much prefer people come to my church because they feel welcomed and drawn to God.

I think this is cynical and wrong-headed.

[Llewlladdwr]

68. A TV isn't going to save anyone's soul.

But maybe the opportunity to talk with some Christians will. If offering folks the chance to win a TV gets them in the door what's the harm?

[JerseygirlCT]

99. But if people were genuinely interested, it wouldn't take a tv

to get them there. And if they come for a TV, I doubt they're going to be interested.

[Caretha]

114. Hard to save the soul

while the body is in dire need of necessities, don't ya think? Uh....nvm that question, I figured that one out.

[WinkyDink]

132. The church isn't responsible for the body at all.

[Lance_Boyle]

141. you misspelled 'reprehensible.'

[Bill McBlueState]

53. "If this saves even one individual's immortal soul then it's easily worth it."

Big, big 'if.' You still have to make the case...

*that an individual has something called a 'soul'
*that it's immortal
*that it needs to be saved from something
*that free TVs, etc., actually will save at least one of these immortal souls you claim exist

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Llewlladdwr]

69. Oh, please.

There's absolutely no way that I can PROVE the existense of your soul, its immortality, or whether or not you're in a state of Grace. These are matters of belief and faith. So you tell me what I COULD say that would "make the case" in your eyes?

[piratefish08]

74. you ARE joking right? your concern lies with one immortal soul and not with the

thousands of hungry, homeless that could be helped if this so called church is so hell bent on spending their $2 million?

[Llewlladdwr]

83. Here's what I'm trying to say.

The church is responsible for souls first and bodies second. That's the priority list.

[MajorChode]

104. So how many "souls" did Kenneth Copeland have to save before he got a $20M jet?

Just curious.

[Caretha]

112. Hahahahahahahahah

And you know that how?

I'm still thumbing through the bible looking for that passage - come to our church, win a prize and you to shall be saved.

Get real

[muffin1]

133. I don't get it.

Please explain.

[madinmaryland]

33. As a Christian, I am disgusted by what this church and its pastor is doing.

This is not the Christianity that I grew up with. It sounds to me more like the Religion of Greed or Religious Republicans.

:puke:

[Llewlladdwr]

39. So you don't feel that Christians should reach out to the community...

by whatever means are at hand? If spending 2,000,000 bucks brings people to Christ then what's the harm?

Look, whether or not you agree with them there are churches teaching prosperity theology. And it seems to have positive results for their members. Can you really say they're wrong to believe that God wants you to be happy and prosperous?

[Lars39]

42. What proportion of the money tithed to the mega churches go to help

the needy in their own communities? Non-church members?

[Llewlladdwr]

45. I don't have that info handy for Bay Area...

as I'm not a member there. I'll see what I can find and post when able.

[PVnRT]

51. LOL - you think this is going to "turn people to Christ"?

Yeah, right. Most new people to that church will show up to try and win a prize, then never come again. I would.

[Llewlladdwr]

71. I think that says a lot more about you than the church.

But I'm also sure that a large number of people will do exactly what you've described. And that's okay. But if a few are saved then it's all good, right?

[madinmaryland]

97. What are they going to be saved from? The greed of the Capitalistic

society that we live in?? I think not.

[WinkyDink]

135. And "saved" is assessed how, exactly? Words spewing from a greed-head's mouth? Spare me.

[JerseygirlCT]

62. Yes. I can.

I think the emphasis on one's own prosperity in this life is all twisted.

It's how we care for others that ought to be the message - not believe in God and get rich!

It's selfish, which is harmful to a healthy relationship with God and with others.

[Llewlladdwr]

72. How is it selfish to believe that God wants you to be happy and prosperous??

Especially if you're doing good works? Part of prosperity theology is the acknowledgment that all blessings flow from God and that He will reward you for being a good steward of the bounty that He provides. If I'm conducting business in an honest Christian fashion (by which I mean obeying the rules and not trying to take advantage of others), reaching out to my community through volunteer work and modeling good behaviors in my personal life why wouldn't God give me more resources to do good with?

[JerseygirlCT]

100. Because I think the whole focus

in that (fairly modern) type of Christianity is selfish - it's all about me. Me and how God loves me. Me and how I'm blessed, Me and me and me.

I don't think that's it at all. And I don't think material blessings in this life - or a lack of them - are in any way a reflection of God's love. Think about what a crappy message that sends to those without. It's the old twisting of Calvin that infected theology and created the idea of the elect. I find that abhorrent.

I do believe God wants us to be happy - but happiness isn't a Mercedes Benz. Happiness is found in living the life that Jesus modeled - focused less on ourselves and our own needs and more on others'.

[Caretha]

117. Oh.....I don't know

ask Jonah. I'll bet your misconceived notions might be answered in that chapter.

[WinkyDink]

134. Yes. Perhaps you missed the Sermon on the Mount? The over-throwing of the money-changers? THE EYE OF

THE NEEDLE?

THERE IS NO LEGITIMATE "PROSPERITY THEOLOGY." THIS IS NEO-RELIGION, ASSUAGING THE GUILT OF GREEDY SUBURBANITES, USING THEIR CHILDHOOD TERM OF "CHRISTIAN" TO EXCUSE THEIR SINS OF PRIDE AND AVARICE.

Chaucer would have an entire new series of Tales based on these greed-heads, led by the modern Summoner and Pardoner.

[muffin1]

137. Maybe, just maybe

if people saw the church spending that amount of money helping feed, clothe, provide health care, and education to the needy, they would be drawn to the church for those reasons. You know, truly making a difference in the community. Giving away TV's and cars?
Utterly ridiculous waste of money.

Actually, I don't even know why I'm bothering with this. Maybe it's just too funny to resist. An invisible sky-daddy who hears and sees everything in the world simultaneously? Saving souls? I mean really.

[joeybee12]

41. I think this story is amusing, but I see your point....$2M could feed a

lot of homeless people.

[JerseygirlCT]

61. Prosperity gospel at work, perhaps?

Yeah, I'm with you - bleh.

[immoderate]

34. Some might say there is never enough.

Believing that myth is reality can't be good.

--imm

[Hell Hath No Fury]

35. If you think that what this "church" is doing --

is in anyway representive of Christianity or of Christ, you really need to crack open your bible and do some serious reading.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Llewlladdwr]

46. Wow. Project much?

What in the world does any of this have to do with Sarah Palin? Look, I have friends that attend Bay Area. I've attended several gatherings there myself. This is a group of well-intentioned individuals who are spending their own money to try and move others to accept Christ. You certainly don't have to agree with them but I really have to wonder just exactly how much any of the folks that are attacking them are doing to make the world better.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

52. Because it is an OBSCENE waste of resources --

and Christ would be mortified. How many poeple would that money have fed? How many homes for the needy would that money have built? How many children could have been immunized with that money? How much fresh water could have been drilled for with that money? How many schools in third world countries could have been built with that money? How many children could have been saved froma life of slavery with that money??

All that good that coudl have been done.

That you defend this makes my stomach turn.

[name not needed]

70. That 2 million could have been used to provide shelter for the homeless.

It could have been used to feed the hungry, but no, it went towards some bullshit PR stunt. Any church that has the money to give away cars and televisions surely has enough to pay taxes, and should lose their tax-exempt status. Both the parishioners and the leaders of this church should be ashamed of themselves for having a role in a farce like this.

[Caretha]

120. "but I really have to wonder

just exactly how much any of the folks that are attacking them are doing to make the world better."

Now that is the most arrogant un-Christian statement you could possibly make.

Here------------> Let me get you a mirror so you can get that beam out of your eye.

[WinkyDink]

130. Au contraire. You are reading ABOUT PHONEY, HYPOCRITICAL LIARS WHO TAKE THE NAME OF JESUS IN VAIN.

ARE YOU ONE OF THEM, OR WHAT?

[alarimer]

131. These people are anything but Christian

They are greedy assholes, mostly.

[joeybee12]

37. I'm booking a flight right now...n/t

[muffin1]

139. I could use a new TV or car, too.

But, it just couldn't be worth sitting in a mega-church, with the rest of these 'Christ-ies'. That experience sounds about as close to hell as one could get.:-)

Nope, think I'll stick to my original easter plan - a big, fatty and Law and Order.

[piratefish08]

48. Churches of every denomination are competing for the same shrinking customer base.

Hell - if they were handing out massages and bongs, I might even show up.

[GreenPartyVoter]

49. *face-palm*

[mstinamotorcity]

54. Is this some more of that

tax exempt the tax exemption while you are not getting taxed song that will ultimately get probably a few more hundred contributors to the sunday collection status pool.O8)

[JerseygirlCT]

57. Wow. How's about they all pitch in to supply and work at

the local soup kitchen or shelter instead?

Because you know, Jesus was all about big screen TVs...

[yodoobo]

65. Nothing brings DU together like a good ole church bashing

The board is split on many things,

But bring up a church and everyone gets together to hate'm and pat each other on the back.


FWIW, this church isn't my style and I'd never go there. But from a marketing perspective it sounds like he just trying to get people in the doors to hear'm talk about their religion. Really can't see why that is bringing out the hate here.

[cali]

73. look, I often criticize people here for singling out Christianity

to bash, but this story is indicative, I believe, of a strain of sickness in our culture. I find what this church is doing to be utterly repulsive, and in criticizing it for it's injection of crass commercialism on the holiest day of the Christian calendar, I feel no compunction at all.

[yodoobo]

86. It is indicative of the sickness of our culture. I really agree

But I kinda see what they are doing.

leveraging that sickness to bring people in to spread their beliefs. Beliefs that THEY feel might be useful to attack that sickness. (and we certainly don't have to be Christians to recognize their right to practice Christianity)

It certainly is controversial. And I don't know that I agree that its the right approach.

But it does seem like its being done with good intentions and without malice.

And when you get down to it, with all the evil in this world, some church using odd and controversial methods to get people to sit down in church really doesn't rise to the top of my concern list. And I certainly am dis-heartened to see DU unite in hatred against these folks.

Hey. If that floats their boat and doesn't hurt anyone. shrug. why should we be concerned?

[cali]

87. sorry. I find it flat out repulsive- particularly on the holiest day of the Christian calendar

It's loathsome that they're giving away two million dollars of goodies to pack their giant church.

In case you're not aware of it, people are suffering. They could have gotten those donations and raffled them off and used the money for services for those who truly need them.

It is disgusting.

[yodoobo]

90. people are suffering and churches should help people.

But A church with no members can't help anyone.

I'm no expert but churches have at least 2 functions

1) Help people
2) Build a congregation who can make goal #1 possible.

It sounds like they are working on goal #2 with this effort.

I dunno. Maybe it is disgusting, but its no skin off my nose.

[cali]

92. It's a mega church with a congregation of several thousand.

your making pathetic excuses.

[yodoobo]

98. Then it sounds like their outreach efforts

are working.

[hughee99]

125. Why is the church not supposed to spend money to try to increase the size

of it's congregation? Yes, I think the specifics of this is are a little crass, but leaving aside the specifics of what they're giving away, they're spending their money to try to get new members.

How is this really different from a Union that spends membership dues to organize and get new members?

Both believe increasing it's membership improves the organization. Both believe it is beneficial to the old members, the new members, and the organization to grow. Many churches and many unions have had some difficulty attracting new members lately.

[MajorChode]

106. It's not hate, but it does remind me of a Janis Joplin song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-GFqhCq2HA

[Tabasco_Dave]

124. I thought of the same thing

I wouldn't be surprised if the song was an inspiration.:rofl:

[Caretha]

121. Oh please

:crazy:

They're trying to get them in "their church" to help pay for the costs of upkeep on this Church Leader's mansion & the fuel for his jet.

But as the old adage goes....there's a sucker born every minute and you don't disappoint. :)

[yodoobo]

123. I've never been there and never will go there

But go ahead and keep insulting just because I'm not jumping on the hate the church bandwagon.

[Union Yes]

77. They gather to worship the Almighty Dollar. nt

[Saphire]

80. I don't care if it rains or freezes/long as I got that plastic Jebus

Riding on the dashboard of my car.

[laylah]

84. True Christians...

NOT...http://osdir.com/ml/culture.templar.rosemont/2004-11/msg00000.html

[Jkid]

88. There has to be a catch...

...otherwise: IT'S A TRAP!

[sudopod]

105. Ah, an ole miss fan I see!

http://www.notatrap.org

[Love Bug]

91. What? There's no poor left in their area that need help? Wonderful!

:sarcasm:

[Odin2005]

93. Because Jebus likes CONSUMERISM!!!

:eyes:

[WCGreen]

94. Amen and pass the lottery ticket...

[gmoney]

95. Who does God think He is? Oprah?

[4lbs]

96. Any truly giving person would just take the car/TV that they "win" at this event, sell it, and

donate the money to a homeless shelter or soup kitchen, and stay away from the church.

I should do that, and I can redeem myself in the eyes of a fictional god, all through spending maybe 30 minutes at the event.

I'll tell them not to gab to me from that storybook they call a Holy Bible, and instead just give me what I 'won' so I can sell it and use the money to help the needy.

It's a little difficult for a person to care about some imagined 'immortal soul' when they or their kids are experiencing severe hunger pangs from not haven eaten in a few days.

The $2 million should be given directly to homeless shelters and soup kitchens, WITHOUT trying to convert anyone in them to Christianity or any other religion.


Hey, you know what? Car dealerships do the same thing. I get mailers all the time with car keys attached to them, and they bleat out "If your key starts a car at our event, you win it!". It's a gimmick to get people to come by and possibly buy a car after getting onto the lot where the salespeople get their hooks into them.

Congratulations, Texas mega-Church! You are now behaving like a car dealership!

[Kat45]

102. They always talk about "the unchurched," which actually means

people who don't go to a church like theirs. They consider people who go to more liberal churches, like the UCC, to be unchurched. I'd say that's an insult to many people who might consider themselves quite religious.

[MajorChode]

107. I just thought it meant those who weren't so weak minded they needed to be told what to believe

[Kat45]

126. People who go to church are not all "told what to believe."

Some people choose a church that is in line with their own beliefs. Not all churches have a creed that you must believe in; not all tell you what to believe.

[MajorChode]

138. Certainly not all, but the majority certainly do

My dad was an ordained minister and pastor of a Unitarian church. Being raised as a Unitarian, I was never told in what to believe or even to believe at all. Whenever the subject was raised with my dad he always told me I was going to have to figure that one out on my own. We even had members of his church who were avowed atheists. I know of no other church that doesn't at least expect some type of belief in some type of supreme being as the bare minimum and most expect far more.

The vast majority of evangelical churches will show you the door if you don't toe the line or at least remain silent. A coworker of mine was just expelled from his evangelical church because he dared question part of their theology. Catholic churches will refuse communion for all sorts of reasons. Most other major denominations have various rules they expect their congregation to abide.

[Mike 03]

103. Kick and Rec. But this is very sad, but so true too. NT.

[omega minimo]

108. I thought Jesus' WAS "the Ultimate Giveaway"

[rucky]

109. Are they going to be hidden in giant plastic eggs?

[Solly Mack]

110. Golly. Is salvation not its own reward?

[RB TexLa]

111. I'll just settle for being in communion the church, the Lord and the saints

[theothersnippywshrub]

113. God owes me a couple of cars. But I think we are even on TVs.

However, I will trust Her judgment on these matters.

[WinkyDink]

136. "Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

115. Don't those fundamentalists ever learn?

In the early days of the missionary movement (late eighteenth century), missionaries would give food and medical care only to converts. The result was so-called "rice Christians," who would get baptized, receive their food allotment, and never be seen again.

Eventually, the missionaries in the mainstream churches learned that they needed to provide charity without regard to the religious beliefs of the recipients.

That is the practice of the mainstream churches (Catholic Charities, Lutheran World Relief, Bread for the World, Episcopal Relief and Development, etc.) to this day.

The fundamentalists haven't learned that lesson yet.

[flvegan]

118. This thread is AWESOME!!

Mix religion and money and you get a winner every time.

[alarimer]

127. That "church" is a plague on this community

I get their fliers in my mailbox all the time. He even has a local TV. I hope they catch him with a hooker soon. It's just more of that bullshit prosperity gospel.

[WinkyDink]

128. He died for our flat-screen televisions. I hope the movie is in 3-D.

[Javaman]

140. Looks like the story has been yanked. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

142. Update: It's the day after Easter, and I'm happy to report that

my church was PACKED yesterday.

Sitting up front in the choir stalls, I saw the entire ground floor and the balcony full.

Did we offer prizes?

Nope. Just a standard Episcopal liturgy, jazzed up only with a procession, lots of flowers, and a brass quintet (which gets free rehearsal and performance space in return for playing for special occasions) accompanying the hymns and one of the two choir anthems.

We had no door prizes, no gory dramatizations, no guilt tripping. Just a joyous celebration.

Offering door prizes is a sign of WEAKNESS. I suspect that people who have lost their jobs or their homes are realizing that going to church doesn't protect you from misfortune, no matter what the mega-preachers say. They are therefore leaving the megachurches.

I think one of the posters above had it right. The "prosperity gospel" movement was designed by charlatans to appeal to the shallowness, ignorance, and materialism of many suburbanites while borrowing the "Christian" label.

[Dappleganger]

144. As a christian I find this practice deplorable.

The fact that it was done for 'show' in order to get their weekly numbers up a travesty. Jesus said that when we give to others, the right hand should not know what the left hand is doing. IOW, do it in secret between you and the one in need or anonymously.

When giving like this is done publicly it is done to give glory to the givers and puts the recipients in a bad place. People who are seen as big givers are quite often given preferential treatment within the church body above other members/attenders who are just as valuable as they are. Big givers are also not held to the same standard of christian living so that their 'sins' are often more easily excused than people who do things behind the scenes. Having lived with that scenario for so many years, we finally had enough and left our church. We don't blame it on God or Jesus, but the current church's thwarted views on how one should live one's life--humble and compassionate acts based upon putting others before yourself, not ME FIRST.