O.K., sorry but this census apparatus is counter-intuitive to the point of being AMOK!1

[UTUSN]

At the risk of sounding like a 'bagger (and do NOT go there!1), I was irritated to receive a SECOND census form on the grounds that it seemed to confirm that something is very bureaucratically wrong.


First, a few weeks ago, there were others like me who posted here that it is a waste of resources to have received an official envelope only for it to turn out to be a letter saying that the real form was coming soon. And guess what, not only that, but there was a SECOND letter AFTER the form saying (I forget what (that you-got-it or what-if-you-didn't-got-it or who knows).


So then we know they hired all those people and trained all those people and accessorized them in all those messenger bags and official I.D. cards and all the pay and travel pay and all.


And now this second thing arrives---yeah, it's a simple-ten-questions, like digging up other people's -- SSANs -- and DOBs a SECOND time. (On Edit: NO ssan, but it's all still a hassle.)


And it's a troglodyte website, where you can't submit stuff online and when you look up the supposed local offices for questions you get a low level type of Google map where the map tacks show addresses but no phone numbers. And you look up the phone numbers for those "Community Development" and "Local School Board" CENSUS offices and, when you call, THEY SAY THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CENSUS.


And then you call the toll free # for the census and get a menu where you will NOT be allowed to talk to anybody, but will only hear five questions to pick from for answers, and WHY YOU GOT A SECOND FORM is not one of them, but guess what------after those are over, there is a second group of five questions, and THERE is your second-form question!1


So guess what the answer is: That it is COST EFFECTIVE to send a second form as a prelude to sending a census worker physically to your address. And somewhere earlier it was also said it was COST EFFECTIVE to send out all those pre- and post- letters, that there was some kind of study ($$$$$$$$$) done that PROVES this!1

[Emit]

1. It asks for your SSN?

It's not supposed to. Our local news just had a piece about this ~ if a form arrives asking for SSNs, it's likely a fraud. Don't fill that one out ~ the real Census form only asks for the names, sex, race, relation to the person who owns or rents the residence, and age/DOBs of the people living at the residence and whether they sometimes live somewhere else.

[UTUSN]

4. My bad (or senile). No SSAN. But it's still a hassle. And it IS the real deal. n/t

[Emit]

5. If you filled out one, I see no need to fill out a second.

And it only takes a few minutes ~ less if you have fewer people living in your residence. :shrug:

On edit, I am not aware there is a second or followup.

[FarCenter]

They are sending out second forms in some areas in case people discarded the first one

If you filled out and returned the first one, you can discard the second.

[UTUSN]

10. That's not what the toll free # said. It said that they probably haven't processed the 1st one yet,

but that it is NEEDED for us to fill out the 2nd one and not to worry: We will NOT be counted twice!1


Repeating, nowhere is it said that the 2nd one can be discarded.

[FarCenter]

11. Who are you going to believe? Some anonymous 800# person, or a poster on DU?

[awoke_in_2003]

20. I hope they send another one my way...

the first appears to have vanished, and I really don't like answering the door and talking to people

[Atman]

8. We got a second form, because we didn't send in our first one right away.

See my other post...it's about marketing principles. You need to account for the people who ignore/lose/throw away the first ones. If you got a second one after returning the first one, just toss it. It won't be counted again even if you fill it out a second time...the bar code makes sure of that.

.

[Wickerman]

2. you make some pretty good points

about some inefficiencies in the system. The only thing I can comment on is the sending of letters prior to the form. Yes, in my work I've found we have more success in getting surveys returned if we send out a letter prior to the survey.

People are very unwilling to spend the time, usually 5 to 10 minutes to fill out a survey, even when it ultimately means better services may be provided from their efforts. So, if you send out a letter before hand it gets into their consciousness and you have the opportunity to do some "presale" to help the surveyee understand why they are getting the form. While I've never done a scientific study I do know that we tend to see about 10 to 15% better return rates, depending on the population. That is a huge number.

YMMV.

And, I made it all the thru this without a comment on whether or not you sound like a 'bagger! Well, almost... ;-)

[NNN0LHI]

3. You need a study to prove that sending out a piece of mail is cheaper than sending a census taker?

This is a joke post isn't it?

Don

[Toasterlad]

9. +1

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FarCenter]

7. It costs the taxpayers far less if the form is mailed in than if the census taker has to visit you

It is a dollar or two for the mailings, compared with an estimated $65 per dwelling unit to send the census taker (sometimes repeatedly) to your dwelling.

There is no SSANs on the census form. The only telephone number is for the person filling out the form, not for the people living in the dwelling unit.

See http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php for all the questions on the form along with a description of how to fill it out.

Questions 1 - 4 are filled out once. Questions 5 - 10 are filled out once for each person living there on April 1.

[UTUSN]

14. I corrected the SSAN thing in post #4 and did a strike-out in the o.p. And the basics

about the census are not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the hassle and waste of the duplication. No matter how few and simple the questions are, I'm talking about the hassle and waste of the duplication----just to REPEAT, since repetition seems to be the order of the day.

[FarCenter]

13. You can check out the return rate for your zip code at this site

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/take10map/

Many communities around here are over 60% with a couple over 70%.

[dixiegrrrrl]

18. I just checked the map.

Boy, is it clunky.

First of all, it is a world map. For the US census, they used what looks like a google world map.
You have to wait till a world map loads, find the search box to enter your state or zip,
wait until the world map loads AGAIN and then wait till the US map shows up in color.
Then you click on the state, wait till it loads, then click on the county, wait again till it loads
( it does NOT load fast).
Gee, my county only has 43% participation rate.
Wonder if that is because the Census still has to mail out
1.6 million forms. Seems they missed some addresses on the first go round.
Like ours...we never got one.

[blondeatlast]

15. I got a second one too and am happy I did, I lost the first one. nt

[rasputin1952]

16. Considering it is once every ten years...

I didn't have a problem getting all of the stuff I got.

I think that that the Census is incredibly important, more so than the junk I get from my R Congresscritters that just get me to send them letters back telling them I think they are Neanderthals.

I figure that if I get some extra crud from the Census once a decade, I won't complain. I look around and see how the roads need to be fixed, how our infrastructure is falling apart and our schools are in dire need of serious help, a host of other things that will be funded by Congress make it worthwhile for me to get a few extra pieces of paper.

When my government asks me to do something directly in line with my Constitutional, I won't gripe. It's better than some of the things the Army asked, or rather told me to do...:D

I'm not taking you to task because you wish to voice your opinion, btw...I just see this a little differently...:hi:

[paulk]

17. well, I can confirm that a lot of people working for the census

thought those letters were a waste of money and little more than a way for the govt to inject some money into the economy by giving it to the PO... or maybe there was some sort of kickback involved? It's almost like they're going out of their way to prove that the government can't run anything properly.

The local (Denver) office is a clusterfuck, run by incompetents - it's kind of surprising considering they got a lot more applications this time around because so many people were looking for work - any work - a bigger pool to choose from, yet it seems they almost just chose who they hired out of a hat.

My wife has done some work for the census, both this year and last - the amount of work has so far been about a quarter of what was promised, which may account for the fact that the people that they end up with are not so great, because everybody with half a clue got tired of having their chain yanked and said "no thanks" when offered the job....

[PA Democrat]

19. It costs $60 per household to send out a census worker to gather the info.

The multiple mailings are actually cost effective based upon research.

snip>

He said the bureau is hoping to match or improve upon its 2000 performance of seeing 72 percent of America return its census forms by mail, because that saves so much money compared to sending a census-taker out to homes that failed to respond.

The cost difference is an average of about 42 cents spent by the government on counting homes that mail in forms, compared to $60 for those that must be visited starting in May, Dr. Groves said.

"If you don't mail the form in, you've just added to the federal deficit," he said in a media briefing. "You've taken $60 that could have been used for some other purpose."

At the same time, the bureau is using a $340 million marketing campaign to try to overcome anti-government resistance, privacy fears and other factors that may make people hesitate to participate willingly.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10085/1045774-84.stm#ixz...

[awoke_in_2003]

21. what I don't understand...

is why this cannot be handled online. I did some contract work a couple years ago, so I got to take a census last year for businesses. They mailed a form, but they gave you the option to do it online.

[UTUSN]

22. O.K., just to sum/CLEAR up: I've filled/SENT 2nd one, and these details:

1) I *had* submitted #1 the same day I got it.

2) The 2nd form is NOT supposed to be optional for submitting, O.K.?!1 That's why I used the word "counter-intuitive," because the INTUITIVE part would be that it is O.K. to discard the 2nd form if you HAVE submitted the first one. Repeating, it is NOT supposed to be OPTIONAL. I keep using the words "supposed to be" because I doubt that anybody is going to go to prison for not submitting EITHER the first OR the second one.

3) My complaints here regarded, down deep, having ONE little question and getting only automated menus, local offices that didn't know they were contact points, skeleton crew staff when it appears everybody took off for Easter holiday, etc. NOT about THE census (the concept of the census, the Constituional requirement of the census, the role of government, or any number of things that, inexplicably became associated with my griping).

4) I fully realize that the form and questions are simple, that it is cheaper for the mailings than sending out a human, and HOW to fill out the form. I made a mistake in mentioning SSAN in the O.P., NOT because I was reading off a false form but because I was going from memory without LOOKING at the (2nd) form as a refresher.


Now, I'll probably blow another gasket a few days or a week from now when I see one or more threads complaining about receiving a second form, and getting nothing but supportive and adoring and understanding replies in them!1
Sorry to blow off steam!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[NNN0LHI]

23. I apologize for my above post UTUSN

I honestly thought you were joshing with us when I posted it with April Fools and everything.

I now see this is bothering you so again I apologize. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Take care and see you later.

Don