My daughter's Bullying experience

[Robyn66]

I pulled my daughter out of school in 5th grade for the last 6 weeks of school because of bullying. She still has the scars today (she is a freshman in highschool) We have been talking a lot about Phoebe Prince and all I can say is "There but for the grace of God go I"

My daughter was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome in 3rd grade. Before that she was categorized as "nonverbal learning disability" which was GREAT for the school because it limited the services they had to provide to her. And they did the bare minimum.

Third grade was the first really bad year. She had a cruel teacher who would single her out and demean her in front of the class for her "odd" autistic behavior. This caused her peers who had up until now not really been too bad with her to really start to have a great time making fun of her and being nasty.

The Special Needs department had absolutely no idea how to work with a child on the spectrum. I brought in books and videos I bought my self that they never watched or read. My daughter's aid was someone off the street with no training. Sometimes this worked out well sometimes it was a nightmare. She had a fabulous aide for a while and then they decided without telling me to switch aids off half way through the day. My daughter had a HUGE problem with change of any kind at the time so she started scratching and biting herself and I didn't know why. When I found out I begged them to put her aid back for the whole day, which they refused to do.

Back to third grade. She had a real asshole for an aide who joined in with the third grade teacher in reprimanding her in front of the class, and instead of treating her with dignity demeaned her and really made it clear that she was some how less than the other kids.

So the bullying escalated.

My daughter came home telling me how bad things were. How mean the kdis were how mean the teachers were.

MY daughter was morbidly afraid of "The Grinch that Stole Christmas" and Bees at the time. She would really freak out. It was extremely entertaining for the kids to go up behind her and buzz or say the word GRINCH because she would scream and run no matter where she was at whatever time. And then they had the added pleasure of seeing HER get in trouble for disruptive behavior.

And these kids were NOT troubled kids from bad homes. These were the little princes and princesses that played sweet in front of people that most thought were the nicest kids in the school. They would have these stupid awards at the end of the year. Not for anyhting real like for Spelling or math or science which my daughter excelled in, but for best smile or helping out in the hall. And these little assholes won everything and my daughter felt like a failure.

When I went to the school many many many many times and had meetings with the special ed department, the principal and at IEP meetings I would beg and sometimes be in tears. PLEASE have SOMEONE just walk to lunch with her or tell the lunch teachers to watch her in line or understand she has a disability and these kids are bullying her. Or I would tell them what she was telling me about what was happening with the aides and the kids.

What I got from the school was

We don't see any of this happening and we ALWAYS watch over her

HER teacher just LOVES her I don't understand what you are talking about

SHE doesn't act upset at school

THESE KIDS have such overactive imaginations

WHEN THESE KIDS don't want to do schoolwork they make these things up

This went on till 5th grade. I tried screaming, I tried begging, I tried working with the school and playing nice. In the mean time a lot of aides in the school (the decent ones) were quitting.

I found out that her 5th grade teacher didn't agree with her IEP so she was disregarding it. When I called the school to file a complaint they said they worked it out with the teacher but that turned out to be a lie.

Finally, my daughter was so sick and horrified at going to school I had an independent observer go in to see what was going on.

I wish I had done that years ago.

EVERYTHING MY DAUGHTER SAID WAS TRUE

We had one more meeting where the school district special ed department SCREAMED at me and my advocate about how WE violated the chain of command by having the independent observer.

She didn't go back to school again.

The principal said I would have to set up a full year home school course for just 6 weeks and "did I really think it was worth the trouble"

I said my daughter's wellbeing was worth the trouble. AND that was a lie anyway. We didn't need to set up a whole year.

I found a tutor and she finished 5th grade that way but the damage was more than done.

I still don't know HOW BAD it really was at the school because when I come across people who quit many of them quit over what was happening to my daughter but they CANT TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED BECAUSE THE LAW SOMEHOW PROHIBITS THEM FROM TELLING ME WHAT WENT ON AT THE SCHOOL. So they just tell me "they saw things" or "they knew thing" but they can't say. I have just asked them not to even go there now because I can't sleep nights just imagining it being worse than I already know.

We just don't have the money for a lawyer to sue the school system and by that time we were so burned out and only cared about our daughters wellbeing that we dropped it but I don't think we should have.

There was an autism program in Middle school that was AWESOME. The kids still treated my daughter like shit. She couldn't eat in the cafeteria or go to recess it was so bad. But by 8th grade she had made some friends and won an award from President Obama for being on the honor roll for every quarter since school started in 6th grade. AND she won the School Spirit award. None of the little bitches she went to school with that tortured her won anything which was great!

Now in high school there is another great autism program and she has developed skills that make a lot of people not even realize she has Aspergers which can be both good and bad at times. Things are kind of tough again but at least she has some friends to hang out with but she is in therapy because she actually has PTSD from what happened to her in Elementary school. The reason she is in therapy is because she said at school this fall she wanted to commit suicide.

We were talking about Phoebe Prince and she told me she could completely understand why she did it, and that she wanted to die many times.

We were very lucky to catch her before she fell. But I can see how easy it would be to miss it.

The teachers of South Hadley High School and the administrators deserve everything they get and more. I hope they get sued blind. I wish they could find a way to charge them as accessories.

Bullying is not character building, it is not an acceptable part of life it is WRONG. These kids and teachers need to be made an example of and maybe something will be done to really protect the victims instead of the bullies for a change!!!

My daughter has survived. I keep telling her that she can take a helicopter to her high school reunion and these other assholes will still have their WALMART greeter vests on.

[NotThisTime]

1. I'm so sorry :( We to had to take our child out of a school for this reason, I was afraid what was

next... I can see why a child would do what Phoebe Prince did, I can see why disturbed, bullied kids bring guns to school, and I can understand the complete helplessness a parent feels when watching this go on with their child... we did the only thing we knew to do when the administration and teachers would not help.... It's costing us a fortune but we have no choice other than to put our child in the school where he belongs. It's a choice that most family's wouldn't be able to make... When kids see that adults bully others, why should kids feel any differently? Just look at the adults who feel perfectly free to scream at people with Obama stickers on their cars, there have always been THOSE adults and kids absolutely know it.... nothing ever comes of their crap.

[Robyn66]

21. Hey, you do what you have to do

I wish we could do it too! :)

[Mojeoux]

47. Temple Grandon

Did you all see or here about this woman? Claire Danes reenacted her life in a beautiful HBO special.

She is now a full professor with PhDs and Masters degrees.

It's an inspiring movie and it might help to give it to people who need to understand.

[Robyn66]

53. Yes! IT was a wonderful movie!

I think it is a terrific way for people to learn about people on the spectrum!

[Odin2005]

59. GrandEn. And I just want to say that she is not representitive of all High-F Autistics.

I really don't relate to her unemotionality, for example.

[Robyn66]

64. Right

no she is more severe than my daughter and I suspect you are. But I think the best thing people can get from it is to see that if you recognize autistic behavior you can have an appreciation of it and not think someone is just weird. The more people even talk about autism and Aspergers the better because it becomes more accepted and hopefully understood and appreciated. I would like to see people stop thinking of Aspergers as a disability because in a lot of ways its a real blessing. If not for the assholes you come in to contact with day to day. I envy your creativity and intelligence. I believe you are a higher evolved being. But then I adore my Aspie daughter and my Aspie brother and am a big fan of yours Odin!

[Mojeoux]

76. My love to your darling children. Let them know that

Mojo says that they are awesome and the people who are mean are missing parts of their hearts. Or it's like the splinter from the smashed mirror of the "Snow Queen" is in their heart.

I have Em-Ceed kid's stages at big festivals and our production company put on benefits for kids in Marin County Ca,
for 10 years. The kids who are the really cool kids have great big warm hearts and smart brains to see the coolness and magic the of the Aspie kids of the world.

[MrsMatt]

112. GrandIn. No "e", but rather an "i". N/t

[Odin2005]

117. DOH! My bad!

[auntAgonist]

2. Robyn66. I cannot imagine the horror. I'm so glad

you were there to help your daughter. I have no words ...


:grouphug: for all of you.


aA
kesha

[Joe Bacon]

118. I didn't imagine it. I lived it.

It was bad enough in the 3rd grade, my hair was styled as an Afro. Still remember when my snide sleazy 3rd grade teacher decided to name me "N" head. And she encouraged everyone in my class to call me "N" head too. Christ, I hated that goddamn witch!

From 7th to 12th grade, my life was hell in high school. Constantly bullied and the ringleaders were a pair of teachers, my 8th grade algebra teacher and the school football coach. Both of them encouraged the chosen ones (the jocks, since all my high school cared about was the football team) to beat me as much as they could. I still remember when that scumbag 8th grade algebra teacher saw me walking down the hall, he yelled "Get that little bastard" to his jock boys. And the teacher LAUGHED as I was being beaten by half a dozen punks. The only refuge I had was chess at home reading Soviet chess magazines and Chess informants, but the chess club sponsor forbade me from joining the chess club because i "Wasn't good enough" even though I could play hundreds of games from theory and quote Soviet chess analysis. Didn't matter. I wasn't good enough. Still remember one time when I was discussing Soviet analysis with one of the boys in the chess club. I didn't realize the football coach was behind me until he yelled "Bacon is a faggot" and his punk football boys picked that up and yelled "faggot" at me. When I got to the room for the next class, the teacher looked at me, she heard what those assholes said. She decided to join in saying "Well, the faggot's here". Believe me, stuff like that made me understand why those boys at Columbine snapped. Many were the times I wished that the school would burn down or blow up. I hated that place. It was a goddamn urinal masquerading as a garden.

The happiest day of my life was the moment I walked out of that fucking concentration camp for the last time. I have no love for the public school system and I especially hold teachers in utter contempt.

Every time I get my ballot for the upcoming election, there are school bonds issues on the ballot. Just looking at them triggers cold sweats, panic attacks and PTSD. There have been times I've been at the polling place marking my ballot and coming to those fucking school bond questions, I go into a full blown panic attack.I have to turn my back and recompose myself for a few minutes until I have the ability to pick up the marker and punch the NO by those questions.

School scarred me for life. That's why I never had children because I couldn't handle sending them to the same kind of fucking torture chamber I was imprisoned in for six years.

Even now, I have a facebook page and some of the assholes who made my life a living hell want to friend me. I've rejected their requests and sent a nice reply that tears another asshole out of those punks. Sorry, but when you were endlessly tortured, there is no way you can even think of forgetting what they did. Even seeing how a lot of them turned out losers on Facebook, yes I say they got what they deserved!

But the scars never heal.

[Robyn66]

121. The scars don't heal

I don't have the words to express how sorry I am that you went through that.

I was bullied too. I guess I was just weird because I had NO friends at all. I was in Band and the BAND KIDS didn't like me. The best I could hope for was to be teacher's pet which didn't help my social life.

I remember in 7th grade there was this ultra cool english teacher who drove a corvette. Everyone adored him. And he used to let kids hang out with him before school and he used to take special students out for ice cream as a prize at times ( I often wonder if there was something wrong going on there!)

Anyway, I tried hanging out in there but apparently I didn't fit in because on parent teacher's night he asked my parents to tell me not to go there any more.

In high school I was constantly threatened. I was apparently still weird, but I was pretty and had a nice figure. BUT I wore the wrong clothes and always said the wrong thing and made an ass of myself when I had a crush on boys. It just seemed like I put my foot in my mouth every time I opened it, which was extremely entertaining for most of the kids.

This one group of girls terrorized me for years. I never knew why. But it got so bad that I couldn't go to PE any more because they were going to beat the shit out of me. So finally my parents got it so I could go to a study instead of PE but I had to fail the last semester.

By the time I graduated from high school I had maybe two boyfriends the whole 4 years, three if you count the one that raped me (that's another story!) and maybe three friends.

That school was full of teachers who stood by while I was tortured and turned a blind eye and probably thou gt I deserved it because I was the weird kid.

Your experience was worse than mine by a ton. But I do understand where you are coming from and you are right, I have had some of these assholes try and contact me on FB and I just block them. I don't even want to bother talking to them.

College was magic for me. I met my husband and my life long friends there. That was heaven for me but I have scars and I think that if I saw any of them on the street now I would feel the same way I did back in the years 1980-1984!

[Joe Bacon]

124. It did change when I went to college

I was shocked when professors actually were interested in me and what I wanted to study. It took a while to get used to sitting in classes where I wasn't called "Dummy", "Stupid" or "Asshole" by a teacher. I found it a wonderful experience.

And they didn't make fun of my hair.

But high school teachers, that was another matter. When my mother died and I had a very distasteful encounter with that rat bastard 8th grade Algebra teacher at the funeral home, I let that motherfather have it with both barrels. He shot his mouth off and I just opened fire on that fucking dog turd. I screamed at him as that slimy asshole ran out of the funeral home, I chased him back to his car and while he was running back there, I just let the obscenities flow like the dam was broke and I made sure that pig saw me flash the middle finger at him repeatedly.

Damn that felt good!

[Robyn66]

126. One of the things that helped me

was getting some good therapy. I had some other major issues to deal with though too. But it helped me deal with everything so I could let go of the hatred- not to forgive but to not allow them to matter anymore. If I let hating them churn in my gut it would only make me suffer, and they don't care because they, don't think they did anything wrong and they just aren't thinking about it.

You know,

I have been thinking, there were two boys I went to school with. They were treated much like you were and they both committed suicide. I am very glad you didn't. You are a very strong person.

[bluestateguy]

3. This is why we need tough new anti-bullying laws

Not school suspensions and detentions for the bully, but rather, a jail sentence and expulsion.

[NotThisTime]

110. You are right, make the legislation and ENFORCE it.... just ENFORCE it.... what's going on is not ok

[Bosso 63]

4. I'm sorry that you and your daughter went through this.

I would suggest that you contact PACER to see what options you have.




http://www.pacer.org/

[JCMach1]

5. I have a high performing Aspie daughter who had a similar experience

here in the UAE in year 3 and 4.

It involved teasing by boys.

And while there is no danger of her becoming a lesbian (not that that would be bad), she trusts boys 0% and will hardly even speak with them much less interact.

She is the same age as your daughter 1st year of HS.

For this and a number of reasons, we are switching our daughters to an online K-12 Academy next year.

You are 100% right, the damage never goes away.

[Berry Cool]

6. I'm so sorry this happened to your daughter.

Especially as an ex-bullied kid.

How obvious is it...kids feel it is open season for bullying when they see ADULTS bullying a kid. It's like the bullying has been sanctioned.

[Love Bug]

7. I'm so sorry you both had to go through this

I'm glad to hear she's thriving. You must be so relieved.

[Robyn66]

10. I am for the most part

but I am always hyper sensitive to what is going on with her (which is probably a good thing)

SHe is now really upset because she doesn't have a boyfriend. Its a common 14 year old thing but with all of the insecurity from her past it seems just deeper somehow. Yet if she HAD a boyfriend it would be tough because I would really wonder what his motives were. I would have to speak to the parents which I am sure she would LOVE!!

We have become involved in our church and these are the most warm wonderful and accepting people I have ever met. Every Sunday they say to us "we are so glad you are here" and welcome Sarah specifically too. Its not a scary church they are all just very kind and welcome everyone. When I had surgery just under a month ago they brought us food for a week and helped out at my house. I didn't think there were such people in the world!

[Love Bug]

14. It sounds like your church is a good one

Tell your daugher all 14 year old girls want a boyfriend but few actually have one. I didn't get one until I was 20, but don't tell her that -- it'll depress her! lol

Maybe she'll meet a boy at your church. Do they have a youth group? I don't do church nowadays, but some of my happiest teen memories are about the youth group I was in.

[Robyn66]

17. Thats what I tell her :D

I didn't really date at all in HS it sucked big time for me! But I met my husband freshman year of college! I told her that but of course she wants the romance. SHe is BIG into Twilight and the Jonas Brothers so she is dreaming. :)

Our church has a pretty small congregation so there is no youth group yet. I saw a teenage boy at one service but who knows as we get involved and know more families there may be opportunities to meet some nice kids.

I was in a youth group when I was a kid too it was a TON of fun. I think the funniest thing is that we are UCC and to have such a liberal church in this REPUBLICAN town is a riot!!!!! It would HAVE to be for Sarah to want to go because she is even more liberal than I am I think :D

[Odin2005]

36. LOL, I was a big wannabe romantic in high school! (still am actually)

I had all kinds of romantic fantasies involving candle-lit dinners and what-not! :rofl:

[Robyn66]

55. Nothing wrong with being a romantic!

My brother who has Aspergers is going to start going to Aspergers Association of New England events. I am hopeful he will meet someone there. He is 37 and a very sweet loving guy.

I think people with Aspergers are wonderful!!!!!

HUGS!! to Odin!!

[Odin2005]

58. Thank you!

:hug:

[Missy Vixen]

46. Robyn, I know a ton of YA authors (re: Twilight)

I would love to pass on some recommendations, if you'd like. If she likes autographed stuff, I'll see what I can do about that, too. I don't know the woman who wrote "Twilight", but there are multiple great authors who live in the Pacific Northwest.

Let me know.

:hug: to both of you.

[Robyn66]

54. Thank you so much she would LOVE that!!

She does love autographed stuff too. She is quite a good creative writer herself, and also loves anime. She is an absolute delight to be around!!!

[Dogmudgeon]

15. Love is going to be somewhat more problematic for her

Not, it isn't guaranteed to be, but nearly every bullied kid I ever knew -- myself included -- has had a few extra bumps in the road over love and sex issues. They/We have heightened neediness AND less trust. Fortunately, most boys will not force sex on a girl they care about -- which should be the key to early all dating. So if she is aware that she'll tend to be a little more shy than she would like, and takes her Mom's wise advice, she should navigate those waters without much trouble.

Since you're supportive of her, 90% of the "repair" work is done. I think all kids could use various kinds of social, non-peer mentorship, in areas from dealing with bullies and abusive parents to dating to schoolwork. I blame the extreme age-segregation of the post-WW2 world for many of these problems. Fortunately, our society has come a long way in just 40 years or so. Even hitting one's own children is frowned upon, except among the Religious Right, and President Obama's statement "we don't spank" probably did more to set parents straight than all the online "spanking wars" since the Internet began. For all the griping about Obama that goes on, he is held in amazingly high esteem even among the GOP rank and file. And just the idea that children should be treated with dignity and respect has changed things radically -- something the Obamas AND the Bidens personify. (Even Bush and Cheney treated their kids a lot better than I would have expected. Maybe God will cut a few years off their sentences in Hell.)

Speaking of which (God; not Hell, and certainly not Bush and Cheney!), I'm glad you found a good church community to join. I'm not a big fan of religion myself, but I can see that there's a movement in the Christian world away from political "fascism lite" back toward kind and ethical conduct. Such people as helped you out after your surgery DO still exist. It's just that during the Golden Age of Neo-Conservatism, that kind of conduct went out of fashion. I'm glad it's back.

Best of luck to you and your daughter!

--d!

[Robyn66]

18. I know what you mean

the thing that is difficult is with the Aspergers, common sense (for lack of a better term) is kind of out the window for the most part. Where you and I would have a bad feeling about something or not trust (I'm also a rape survivor and child abuse survivor so BOY do I know TRUST issues!!)

She doesn't have that internal warning system. Even though she knows you don't get into a car with a stranger, if someone pulled over to the side of the road and said I've lost my baby, puppy...etc she would be in that car like shot. That is one of the skills that we are trying to work on teaching her. Her brain just doesn't make those connections the right way. She is honest and direct because thats the way her brain works and she takes the world around her at face value so she is an incredibly easy target not just for boys but for ANYTHING any kids would want her to do. She would do it because it would never occur to her that there would be any ulterior motive because she cannot process what an ulterior motive is.

I told my husband that if we do nothing else before we die she has to be married to someone who will be good to her and keep her safe!

[Lilith Velkor]

25. I would recommend martial arts training instead

The "good man" could turn out to be a charming sociopath, and even if he actually is good, he can't be there all the time. She needs to know how to defend herself.

[Robyn66]

26. You are absolutely right

I don't want her to be dependent on anyone but herself but I truly hope both girls meet men who are like their father. My husband is a truly wonderful supportive man and as much as I want both my daughters to be strong independent women, having a strong supportive partner in life would be ideal.

[Warpy]

8. Junior high was especially bad, the kids were animals

and I was not qualified to be part of the southern kid ruling class: undersized, underweight, funny shoes due to polio, thick glasses, braces on my teeth, a facility for both math and languages, an ethnic name, proper English, and parents who didn't go to a Klan approved church. I did put one bully into the hospital and that helped as the word spread, helped keep me isolated although unbullied.

When I got to high school I started my own damn clique of brilliant misfits, including a few kids I know now were Aspies. The truly hilarious part is that after the first year, there would be a ring of ruling class kids around us in the caf all listening in to what real conversation sounded like.

But yes, I think PTSD is under diagnosed in victims of intense bullying in school. I hope therapy can help your daughter understand that it's not her fault, it was never her fault, the kids with the problems that need to be fixed are the bullies.

Bullying is character destroying, both for the bullies and their victims.

[Robyn66]

11. I was so on edge when she started middle school

she came out of school and she said someone hit her and I FLEW in to the school and basicly grabbed the teacher by the throat and demanded what happend. When I found out that my daughter had actually reached for something at the same time as another girl and they bumped into eachother more than anything else (which I confirmed with my daughter) I still made it clear that if ANYONE TOUCHES HER the police will be called and I press charges to the fullest extent of the law. I work for my town and am friends with the police chief. I will use any pull I can try and use to fuck up the world of anyone who touches my kid.

I hate being like that but I will do what I have to to protect my daughter even if it means being a storm trooper!

[midnight]

9. Those excuses that you list seem to be standard talking points

that were listed to me after requesting information about a situation going on at the local school. They must use them to distract away from the real issues going on. I think the main focus was to show they had control in the class room. Also it appeared to me that the administrators pit the students and teachers against one another, and blocked communication. If I could recommend changes it would be to offer smaller class sizes.

[Robyn66]

12. They are classic talking points

and conversation stoppers. Shows how much they give a care about the kids wellbeing. Its CYA all the way!

[frazzled]

13. You might be interested to watch the new show "Parenthood" ...

which has an ongoing story line about a child with Asperger's. It's a kind of otherwise a silly "30 Something" for the newer generation, but some of the issues with "Max" are as you describe. You can watch 5 episodes currently on Hulu to catch up: http://www.hulu.com/search?query=Parenthood&st=0

My daughter (also an excellent student) was hearing impaired, and experienced some of the same issues you describe when she was in school, especially a few incredibly cruel and insensitive teachers. I wasn't aware of any overt bullying, however--though social isolation occurred (some of it self-generated) and some mild teasing occurred. Children with disabilities have a tough-enough row to hoe without these external pressures. The teen years are especially vulnerable, emotionally.

It sounds like you are doing an excellent job with your daughter, and she will certainly excel. Thanks to your support, she will overcome the difficult experiences she had in school, and be all the stronger for it.

[Robyn66]

19. Bullying teachers

Teachers who bully are not talked about as much as they should be. I am sure that this is the root of many a problem with bullying in the schools.

I will take a look at that show thank you :D

My husband and I try our best with her. It can be very hard and exhausting and very hard on her younger sister but we love her and would go to the wall for both of our kids :D

There is such a fine line we walk between kicking her butt and not letting her get lazy and understanding her disability. Its like learning a new language. But I think we succeed most of the time. Its hard to decode sometimes with the teenage hormones running wild!!!

[bluestateguy]

23. Bullying teachers

If you do talk about bullying teachers you risk running afoul of DU's resident press secretaries to the NEA, and according to them, there are no bad teachers ever. And if there are it is always somebody else's fault and it should be impossible to fire them.

[Catshrink]

33. That's a purposeful misrepresentation

of the views of teachers who post here. Really, the people who spew that crap are of the Michelle Bachmann/John Boehner ilk.

[Odin2005]

38. Yeah, those attitudes get really annoying.

[Joe Bacon]

119. See my post above

How I was tortured by a pair of abusive teachers. They scarred me for life.

[Odin2005]

39. My 3rd Grade teacher was PURE EVIL. Horrible, emotionally abusive woman.

She destroyed my interest in math for YEARS because I came to associate math with her.

[kywildcat]

81. bullying teachers-sigh

first-my heart to your daughter and your family. In this day and age I just can't fathom why we haven't evolved past bullying.
I had a first grade teacher who made my life hell-I'm 45 and to this day I remember her name, and what a horrible person she was. Absolutely horrible. My mother knew how miserable I was but has said she was powerless-teachers held all of the cards. And in a passive aggressive way they still do. Anyway-this woman determined my academic future which included regular bullying by classmates. I changed schools often due to parents moving, but had no other way to relate to people and had no healthy examples of how to relate. I've sinced worked through so many of my trust issues but the damage was done.
18 years ago, when I decided to enroll in a local university, I called the school district to see if this teacher was still active-just to write her a letter telling her what a horrid beast she was, but she had retired.

[Odin2005]

37. I LOVE that show!

[Sheltiemama]

104. I think that's a great storyline.

And the young actor who plays Max is amazing.

[Echo In Light]

16. "these kids were NOT troubled kids from bad homes"

It always amazes me how there's that status quo push within schools to deny this obvious fact: it's often the popular ones, the so called Beautiful People, who are the worst villains...much the same way RWers learn to use their Pillar of The Community status to disguise their evil.

[Robyn66]

20. Most of these kids are the children of Republicans too

at least in our experience

[Odin2005]

40. That's because a lot of the parents of those kids have "connections".

Especially in small towns like where I'm from. The kids of the local "Boss Hogg" never get disciplined.

[bluestateguy]

22. Perhaps it should have been all the teachers at S. Hadley who should have been shit-canned

as well as the administrators too. At least that crappy school in Rhode Island does not have kids killing themselves from bullying.

[Robyn66]

27. I think they should still be shit-canned!

That is the very least that should be done to them. I am sure there are more kids being bullied there than are speaking out too. These problems are never isolated incidents (even though the school would like you to think they are)

[WolverineDG]

24. My cousin's daughter has Aspbergers & they both went through hell

I should say her husband did too. They were just as involved in C's school life as you are. Unfortunately, it wasn't until junior high that anyone realized she might have Aspbergers (another cousin who is a teacher attended a training on this & realized this was what the child has). I can't tell you how many holier-than-thou teachers would blame my cousin & her husband for not "disciplining" their daughter properly, for letting her "run wild." I know for a fact that they didn't. They tried everything, & the kid was on all kinds of drugs from being misdiagnosed. And since the kids saw the teachers treat her like crap, they treated her even worse. The last straw came when my cousin arrived at school to pick C up & found her in her gym clothes crying her eyes out. The coach had decided to take his frustrations out on her & made her run laps as "punishment" even though she had actually done those laps the day before when he assigned them to the class. He did nothing to the little shits who didn't do them, though. They got to sit in the stands like they did the day before & mock C as she tried to run the laps. I can only imagine the :nuke: that went off in my cousin's head that day. When she confronted the school about it, they told her C should be in alternative education---you know, with the druggies & the juvenile delinquents!!! :wtf: Needless to say, C was pulled out of school & homeschooled the rest of the year, while my cousin investigated her options. And when she found out the school district received funding for students with Aspberger's but wasn't using the funding for that? She went Chuck Norris on their ass. Fortunately, they could afford to hire an attorney & basically wrote out precisely what the school was going to do for C after that.

Long story short, C had a rough time, but she did graduate from high school. She didn't have too many friends, but did have a couple of boyfriends & went to her prom. Her first year in college was rough (dealing with the changes, I suspect), but she is now doing well in another school, actually has a circle of friends & a real boyfriend who looks out for her almost as much as her parents do. There is light at the end of the rainbow.

:hug: BTW, your state should have an organization that represents the disabled in getting access to services, making sure cities/counties/states comply with the ADA. In Texas, it's called Advocacy Inc. I recommend looking into this option.

On edit: I see people are blaming this bullying behavior on Republican kids/parents/teachers, so I want to point out that my cousin & her daughter live in the High Holy Blue State of Washington & live in the High Holy Blue Mecca known as Seattle. So it doesn't matter if you're a liberal; you can still be a bullying shithead.

dg

[Robyn66]

28. Ah yes, treating kids with Aspergers behaviorally

I have been through that one too. I know people don't like kids being labeled. But my daughters Aspergers diagnosis was the best thing that ever happened to her. Once we had a name to her situation, they at least HAD to provide her with services.

My daughter's class used to go on morning walks, my daughter has always dragged her feet a little bit (hello, part of her disability) it made her slower than the rest of the group. Instead of letting her take her time at the back with her aide that was supposed to be with her, she was forced to be at the front of the group. To this day she hates walking and hiking of any kind. She has a bit of a weight problem in part because I can't get the kid outside to do things because as much as she has progressed, I can't get her to go on a walk. She completely flips out. Its still one of her bad issues.

I had someone who went to IEP meetings who was our advocate and made sure she had services but what we really needed was an education lawyer (which is very hard to find) to go after the school. I regret not going after the school district so much!!! I have told other parents in the school if they have any feeling their child is being mistreated to go with it and to NEVER give that school the benefit of the doubt.

[Odin2005]

30. Just to knit-pick, but it's Asperger's, no B.

I just prefer to call myself "High-Functioning Autistic" because I'm sick of the "Ass Burger" jokes. :banghead:

[WolverineDG]

31. sorry, I'd always seen it spelled with a b nt

[Odin2005]

35. LOL, hang around more people that can spell!

:P

[HuckleB]

62. So you are ok with the proposed DSM changes?

Cheers.

:toast:

[Robyn66]

66. I'm sorry what are you referring to?

I feel kind of dumb because I am sure I should know

[HuckleB]

67. The draft proposal would eliminate the Aperger's diagnosis.

Everyone would fall under Autism.

Here's an MSM piece on it.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/11/aspergers.autism.dsm.v/index.html

[Robyn66]

69. That seems kind of dumb to me

People with Aspergers are on the autism spectrum but people who are Autistic generally have a lot more difficulty communicating and functioning independently. Its really apples and oranges.

I will have to read up on it but on the first glance I think its pretty ridiculous. It seems like a big step backward. We should be moving toward getting people more specialized help not lumping them in together.

[Odin2005]

94. Actually, it will be better because the exact dx will be based on functioning level...

...not secondary criteria like "no significant speech delay", which will be a "sub-dx for autistic kids.

So I would be labeled as:

"Autism Spectrum Disorder, Mild Impairment; moderate memory Savantism; Gifted; No speech delay; Sensitivities to noise, smells, synthetic fabrics; with Central Auditory Processing Disorder."

[Odin2005]

88. Yes.

The distinction between Asperger's and "High-Functioning Autistic Disorder" were always tenuous, at best.

[Robyn66]

90. As long as access to services aren't diminished by the change

I am not too worried about it. Those of us with family on the spectrum are well aware of the autistic component in ASpergers. Maybe it will lead to more services being available to Aspies if they are somehow not deemed "less autistic" Its another one of those time will tell issues.

[Odin2005]

93. Many aspies will probably become eligible for MORE servies after the chnage.

Many psychs give Aspies with more problems an Autistic Disorder diagnosis just so they can get more services.

[Robyn66]

113. Hey then I am ALL for it

[HuckleB]

105. That's basically what I've been thinking, but what do I know?

[knitter4democracy]

79. I teach in an alternative high school.

They're not all druggies (though we have our fair share), and many are delinquents because of similar situations--misdiagnoses, bullying, crappy home life. We have a great school, a safe place for kids to finish up their high school degrees and get on with life.

I'm just sayin', it's often a good school, the kind of school that should exist for kids that don't fit in the neat, little, plastic box of public high school. She actually might have done better there. We have several students on the spectrum at my school, and they're supported, have friends, and have great teachers who work hard to make sure they understand the material and succeed.

[Odin2005]

29. This "Aspie" was viciously bullied by both peers AND faculty in school.

I have PTSD from it. One of the bullies was never dealt with because he was the star of the football team. Another bully got off because his parents have connections. And like your kid I had teachers that singled me out for my "odd" autistic behavior.

An example from high school is peers causing me to have an autistic meltdown by doing things that didn't bother anyone else and so I got in trouble and got told off as a chronic whiner.

Bullying MUST be taken seriously especially with kids with special needs, SILENCE IS COMPLICITY.

[Robyn66]

32. Hi Odin!!!!!!

I know you went through hell too! These asshole teachers need to go!

[Odin2005]

34. AMEN!!!

:hug:

[tblue37]

41. I read in an article not too long ago that the young princess of

Japan, the daughter of the freaking crown prince, has been cruelly bullied at school by boys in her class. It amazes me that even a princess can't feel safe because bullying gets ignored by adults in school.
http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/japanese-princess-akio-bullied-at-school-imperial-household-agency-says/19385082

A spokesman for Japan's Imperial Household Agency told The Associated Press that Princess Aiko endured stomach aches and anxiety after she and other students were subjected to "violent things" from a group of boys. The princess hasn't returned to school since Tuesday.

Princess Aiko, here with her mother in March 2009, has missed school for several days because of the bullying incident, said a spokesman for Japan's royal family.

The news of the princess' plight comes just days after a survey found that reported cases of bullying in the United States has declined drastically in recent years. Wednesday, the AP reported that cases of bullying among youngsters dropped to 15 percent in 2008 from 22 percent five years earlier, possibly because of anti-bullying programs instituted in schools across the country.

But that will be little comfort to Princess Aiko, or to the beleaguered officials at her school, who, according to The Japan Times, put together a "hastily arranged" news conference to address the incident. The school's director, Motomasa Higashisono, said the princess simply "got scared Tuesday when she went by a boy who dashed out of a classroom.'' He insisted there was nothing violent about the incident. "She had decided to leave school," Higashisono said, "and just as she had returned from changing into her normal shoes from her school shoes, I hear it was two boys that approached very suddenly and nearly collided with her, which scared her."<emphasis added>

Japanese Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama wished Princess Aiko well in the Daily Mainichi. "As an individual citizen, I hope recovers and gets well as quickly as possible," he said.

Notice how the administrators at her school do the same thing they do in the US--they minimize what has been going on, make up innocent versions of events, and do not protect the children in their care. BTW, I realize that the information in the article about reduction of bullying in the US and anti-bullying programs in US schools is entirely irrelevant, since the princess goes to school in Tokyo, but the writer of the article seems not to realize how irrelevant that little bit of info is.
<SNIP>

[Odin2005]

42. OMG, poor girl!

:cry:

[Dinger]

43. I Am A Third Grade Teacher (A 3-4 Split Actually). Here Are My Thoughts And Examples (Long)

First, I am so sorry that your daughter was victimized at school. She sounds like a very bright and sweet young lady. I am sorry that you were victimized too. I know that it hurts, I know all too well. I was bullied in elementary school, and my son was also bullied. He is not autistic, he has ADD. Most of his teachers were very good, but he did have some assholes in middle and high school who bullied him as well, culminating in his senior year with the principal telling us that he wouldn't get his diploma unless he came and got his wood shop project immediately, and pay up the bill for the material (which we were not contacted about (for approval). Sort of like extending credit to minors, which I think is illegal. The bill was over $900. We went and got the project, and paid the bill. We saw many. many other projects still there, and we were never contacted prior to the call about getting it either. Let's just say, I took care of that situation.

I have had students with Asperger's Syndrome before. I have had three boys and currently have a girl who have Asperger's Syndrome. One thing that ties them all together is their superior intelligence. Two of the boys maxed out on their standardized tests, which are given in the fall. Totally maxed out, they couldn't get any higher. One of the boys was a brilliant writer, absolutely brilliant. I worked with his mom and got him involved in programs and associations for gifted and talented writers. He won a state award and is continuing his writing career. I am positive you will all know him as a successful author some day soon. When I have had students like this, I work with them and their families to concentrate on their strengths and make sure the child's peers know of their success too (while also acknowledging successes of other students). Each of these students has a particular strength and skill. The boy I just mentioned had an almost unbelievable skill in writing. Oh yeah, I mentioned that. That's because I am still amazed by an student having an ability like that. He is a very special talent. One of the other boys had very high math and musical skills, and a special skill with technology. He recently graduated, and had a small computer business going by the age of 16. The third boy was also a very talented writer and artist. Truly, truly amazing. I have a little girl right now who spells better than I do. A third grade spelling list would be a waste of time for her, so I have designed a unique spelling program that fits her learning needs and style. It takes a bit more work, but it's going very well, so I don't mind, a bit. She's an amazing little girl. Besides the intelligence of all of these students, another thing they had. have in common is behavior that is a little quirky. These are just some examples that I am sharing from personal experience.

We use an anti-bullying program that works well. Here is a link: http://www.clemson.edu/olweus/
However, like any program, you need to be consistent and maintain the program. Don't just start it at the beginning of the year, and then forget about it. In our school these are ways we implement and maintain the program:


1. We have an all-school assembly, which focuses on the anti-bullying program we use. We do some role-plays (by teachers, administrators, support staff, parents, and students), and we have a speaker.

2. Next, we have the kids sign an anti-bullying pledge, and display these in our classrooms year around. When parents come in for school events,
they see this too.

3. We have "Family Nights," where there is a light supper provided before a special program/assembly follows. I have a great one planned for
this month. As a result of an award I received, the school gets a grant, and I asked my superintendent if I could use it to bring in a retired
NFL player to talk to the kids about overcoming obstacles, having a positive attitude, showing positive behavior, and an anti-bullying message.
This person experience that in his life. Here is a link on his story if you're interested. http://www3.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=91261

4. We have "bully-buster" slips that are given to students. One a week, names are picked out of a bucket, and the kids get nice prizes.
The kids like this, and they know not to bully, and they know that being a bystander and doing nothing is also bullying. This, along with
Family Nights are one way we maintain the program all year.

5. Anti-bullying lessons and activities are also incorporated into our guidance classes.



Each teacher has other things they do to help. And I can tell you honestly, that there have been a few instances where I suspected bullying by
teachers and/or other staff. It has rarely happened, but I immediately went to my principal (who is great!) and the teachers were disciplined. Yes, I'm a tattle tale. I can also say honestly that I observed those specific teachers' classrooms being observed more often by administration. I also give parents my cell phone and en courage them to call me if they ever have a question or concern. I have never had a problem with that, so I continue to do it. I can also check my school e-mail at home. We have one open house at the start of the year, and two formal parent-teacher conferences, so I tell that parents that while we have few formal meetings during the year, I will meet with them any time, as long as it works with our schedules. I also make my room available during my lunch break for kids to catch up on work, don't feel well, or just need some quiet time by themselves. That doesn't happen often, but I want the kids to know I am available to them when they need me. I also tell the kids that if there is a problem, and they tell an adult, and nothing happens, to keep telling someone until something is done. Sometimes that means they come to me, but they KNOW I will do something. It hasn't happened much (not once this year, so far), but again, I want the kids to know they have choices, and that their voice matters, they matter.



Robyn, you sound like a wonderful parent. I have/had wonderful parents too. I hope that Mr. Dinger and I have been good parents too. All we can do is our very best. Sometimes that's enough, sometimes it isn't, but one has to keep on trying and never give up.

My best to you and your child.

[etherealtruth]

44. A wonderful post!

[Dinger]

45. Thank You

:)

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. ...

:hug:

[Robyn66]

56. WOW!

I wish with all my heart my daughter had you for a teacher! It would have made her life so much better in so many ways!

You are doing a terrific thing!!!

I am pretty much hated by most of the teachers and staff of the elementary school. My younger daughter currently is in 5th grade there. Her teachers have been excellent. I can't help but think that she has gotten the good ones because they just don't want to deal with me. I don't care-whatever it takes!!!

One thing is for sure, the last day of school will be the happiest day for all of us. Then none of us will ever have to go into that hell hole again!!!

[Dinger]

68. Thank You Robyn

My very best to you and your daughter.

[Odin2005]

63. That is F-ing AWESOME!

:yourock:

I was gifted just like your Aspie students. I was reading college level stuff when I was 10 and when I was 15 my IQ was tested at 135, with my verbal IQ at over 150.

[HuckleB]

65. I have a question.

Did you go to pre-school? If so, did you "run things" because of your superior intelligence?

It's a pointless, anecdotal question. I know. But, well, just curious.

[Odin2005]

70. Yes, I went to preschool and I didn't "run things", but everyone knew I was bright.

[HuckleB]

71. Got it.

Thanks! Cheers!

:toast:

[annabanana]

84. This post deserves its own thread. Front line reports are always

valuable.

[Dinger]

95. O.K., Done

And thank you.:)

[varelse]

48. It's threads like these that make me wish I could rec a post more than once

Some children simply aren't equipped to deal with bullying - and some bullying goes well beyond the "teasing" stage. If responsible adults don't step in and deal with the problem, it can have fatal results.

[chrisa]

49. I was also bullied by a teacher in fourth grade.

I'm sorry to hear about this. I wish you and your daughter all the best.

[MadMaddie]

50. I am so sorry that your daughter sufferred....

I am glad you have a good relationship with her and she is able to talk to you.

[cally]

52. I literally watched two children throw my daughter on the ground

in the playground and the school did NOTHING!! They told me they had to respond to the boys football game and that girls will be girls. This was after years of bullying.

I completely share your frustration with the schools and the inability to get them to change. My daughters fifth grade teacher disagreed with her IEP and ignored it. Special Ed had her do math games when she excelled at math but had reading disabilities. She tried to commit suicide at 17. I to know that when I hear of a suicide that I'm extremely fortunate and blessed that I came home after my daughter took an overdose and she called the paramedics. Bullying is ignored in our school system way too often and too many people don't understand how awful it is. It is not a right of passage. I now think I should have home schooled her and never let her enter school to face that torture.

[Robyn66]

57. It is so hard

when you have to fight a school there is nothing harder. I would practically throw up when I would put her on the bus in the morning! I was sending my little girl to that school with no protection and nothing I could do about it. It was a horrible powerless feeling. That is why I tell every parent I know, if your gut tells you there is something wrong DO NOT DOUBT IT! Believe your child over the school every time.

My daughter is off the chart smart, but she still has some difficulty due to the fact elementary school was a complete waste of time. I was just at a meeting with the autism specialist last week and we have discovered that my honor roll student child doesn't know her multiplication tables very well. Don't ask me how she keeps her grades up. But there are some basic foundation skills she never got because of the bullshit she endured.

It was four years ago and I know I am supposed to be over it but she has scars I fear she will never fully heal from because of these people.

Thank GOd you were able to be there in time for your daughter. I am glad I was smart enough to not blow off the suicide threat as just teenage drama.

I just wish I had the money to send her to the schools I WANTED to. BUT we do have a very good very open relationship and she does talk to me. I am very very grateful for that.

I guess all we can do is pay strict attention to everything and fight when we have to.

[cally]

60. I am fortunate

one thing my family has learned is to address problems and value time together. We are all very close. I thank God that I followed my instinct and left work an hour after arriving and head home to check on her. I'm very blessed.

[HuckleB]

61. I love teachers. I love educators. But this type of denial is rampant.

It's probably due to them being overburdened for 9 plus months of the year. I don't think summers off make up for it, and it's clear to me that a shorter school day and shorter work day over the whole year would help everyone.

[Leftist Agitator]

72. You let this go on for how long?

You chose to believe the word of strangers over your own daughter, who was obviously suffering intensely every single day?

WTF?

[AllyCat]

73. There have been many threads here about bullying. In many if not most of the cases

the parents have felt powerless to do anything. Seriously, what would many people do who can't afford a private school, or can't home school? I remember being told to just stand up for myself. That's hard to do with low self-esteem made lower when no one supports you, including the ADULTS at the school who are supposed to be the leaders and guide our kids.

What would have been an appropriate amount of time that would be acceptable to you? Robyn66 has come here to talk about an issue that is important to everyone and you are questioning her response to the whole thing? You weren't there. You did not walk in her shoes.

Add to the discussion or bug out.

[eilen]

74. It is hard when you are talking to "experts" to be sure what is really going on.

My son was teased in school. He also told great whoppers -- In middle school, he informed one teacher he had traveled to Ireland over school vacation. He blended fantasy with reality often. To the point he would make up things with his counselor until he figured out she was pretty smart with an advanced bullshit detector. We did remove him from a public elementary school because while we felt we did the right thing holding him back a grade in Gr. 3, by 5th, the kids were teasing him about "failing" (which he did not -- we held him back for developmental reasons -- he was very immature for his cohort).


Anyway, I was convinced by the reading teacher, the guidance counselor/school psych and the other "special ed experts" that holding him back a year would cause incredible damage for 2 years (first and second grades). Things had not improved by 3rd and we insisted on retention. He loved both his 3rd grade teachers and given that extra year was on point with the other students and more confident in his studies. The teasing that started in 5th grade was mean and his teacher was, in my opinion, inexperienced, not open to constructive advice on how to work with him and showed no follow through on his behavior plan that was agreed on in the IEP meeting. The principal refused to let us move him to a different class. We looked into transferring him to another school but it was April and every school we called declined admission until the next school year. We just phoned it in basically for the rest of the year.

We have had a very rocky road which seemed to smooth out once we got a diagnosis of PDD to replace the "ED" label. In elementary they were all convinced he had ADD and wanted me to put him on drugs, I refused. Needless to say I felt a certain amount of validation when his psychologist stated he did not have ADD at a middle school meeting. It took a long time to get him to realize he was not dumb. The last special ed meeting I went to, I had him attend. His resource teacher recited his scores -- almost all of them tested to college level or above-- except for mathematical calculations in which he scored below school level. The school psychologist stated that it was common for students to score lower with the increased use of calculators. This really made him feel better about himself. His writing skills are amazing. Completing and handing in homework, however is not a priority for him--now the school experts acknowledge this is part of his PDD, not my horrible parenting or laziness.

[Mopar151]

77. What's PDD?

You're describing some of my elementary school experiences. I don't think I make it onto the Aspie/autisim scale, but I have some of the issues. We got "effort grades" in middle school - I got an A in 6th gradereading with "unsatisfactory" effort. Mom met with the teacher with me - she could'nt really explain it, other than I was obviously bored. (Asimov and Heinlien were more my speed then).

[LWolf]

86. Here:

http://www.autism-society.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_whatis_PDD

[eilen]

96. Pervasive Developmental Disorder

From Wiki:

The diagnostic category pervasive developmental disorders (PDD), as opposed to specific developmental disorders (SDD), refers to a group of five disorders characterized by delays in the development of multiple basic functions including socialization and communication. The pervasive developmental disorders are:<1>
Pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS), which includes atypical autism, and is the most common;
Autism, the best-known;
Asperger syndrome;
Rett syndrome; and
Childhood disintegrative disorder (CDD).
The first three of these disorders are commonly called the autism spectrum disorders; the last two disorders are much rarer, and are sometimes placed in the autism spectrum and sometimes not.<2><3>
Parents may note symptoms of PDD as early as infancy and typically onset is prior to three years of age. PDD itself does not affect life expectancy.
There is a division among doctors on the use of the term PDD.<1> Many use the term PDD as a short way of saying PDD-NOS.<1> Others use the general category label of PDD because they are hesitant to diagnose very young children with a specific type of PDD, such as autism.<1> Both approaches contribute to confusion about the term, because the term PDD actually refers to a category of disorders and is not a diagnostic label.<1>

Link

My son has PDD-NOS

[eilen]

97. There were certain markers

or red flags that flew up to me when I was reading the book. For one, as a toddler to about 5 he preferred solitary play. He would line up his trains and be busy, he had to have a few with him in his hands. He could not handle transitions/change very well, going from home to school or daycare or just from play to lunch often ended up with crying. I ended up developing involved transitional rituals to get him from one area to another and that was not always possible. He also had a speech delay. We had preschool age speech therapy come a few times a week to help him speak understandably when he was 3-4. He corrected very quickly. Toilet training took a long time, particularly #2. He just did not want to stop what he was doing to use the bathroom. He was never interested in joining the group in daycare/preschool, doing the craft project etc. He just wanted to be left alone. When he became older and more socially aware, he would try to make people laugh. He would memorize entire scenes of dialogue from cartoons and movies and would just start repeating them. Most of the time the other children would have no idea of what he was talking about. There was no frame of reference. He would just launch into a favorite funny scene. Kids would give him funny looks.

He would fixate on certain things and they were like an obsession. For the first few years it was trains. Then it was superheros. I would have trouble getting him to change out of pajamas and once he started with the superheros and had pajama shirts with capes... that was his wardrobe for the next 4 years. I would often get him to change from the pajama shirt if I pinned the cape on his shirt. And yes, he still had to carry 3-4 action figures everywhere we went. He did have a transitional security object-- a teddy bear that had to be with him every night (he still sleeps with at 17-- and will look for it if I take it for laundry). He became very fascinated with Hercules (when Disney put out the movie) and Toy Story because I think he really still believes that objects have a secret life-- in his imagination, where trains talk and superheros and video game characters have real personalities-- Toy Story was almost a confirmation to him of everything he daydreamed about. He has continued with great interest studying mythology, philosophy, comic books/super heros, music. He also had very weak fine motor skills and could not hold a pencil well. His handwriting/work productivity in school was an issue. The school would not provide OT.

He never got into things in the home, never emptied my kitchen cupboards, linen closet or tried to escape out the back door when I wasn't looking as his cousin did. He didn't dump out all his toys in the boxes, never destructive. Also, not neat or organized either. When he was in 7th grade he started asking me if he might need help for being OCD. At this time many of the kids were discovering drama and how their problems can make them seem special. I told him I didn't think he was obsessive-compulsive despite a propensity to be obsessive/intensely focused on certain things. He discussed these ideas with his psychologist. He does get obsessed about certain things and will in no way ever give up on them. I wish he would become obsessed about completing and handing in his homework lol. I tell him if he could only harness this ability for productive purposes but if he has no interest in something, forget about it. He doesn't want to waste his energy.

He just told me to let y'all in on the Captain America comic books. The latest issue pokes fun at the teapartiers.

[Mopar151]

102. OK, I'm starting to get this

Dad may have had full-blown Asperger's, or similar. He was deaf as a post from being shelled in WW2 - but very bright - when I had my difficulties with teachers, we saw a reading test someplace, ad did it as a family - he could easily do 800 wpm with no speedreading technique. He was a precision inspector in a machine tool plant - could do trig in his head, kept the books for his union local. Loved cars and trucks, racing, was the guy who measured engines at the stock car track, showed every kid in the neighbor hood how to hop up their minibike. Helped me build a go-kart that went great, would turn and stop, too. Probably a lot of what kept me from being diagnosed with anything is that most of my obsessions were very useful, or considered normal in my odd-duck family. Some of school did'nt go well for me - i hate rote memorization, so freshman Spanish did'nt go well. My handwriting stinks, 'cuz my fine motor skills are so-so, and I'm thinking a lot faster than I can get it on the paper. And I don't learn abstract stuff - like algebra - very well out of context, but show me application and stand back! That had some to do with college not going well.
In adulthood, being around like-minded people really helps, and I've been lucky that way - after years of being a flop with girls, a met a neat lady who loves books - she works at the State library - and when your'e catalog obsessed, really good with tools, and like genuinely fast cars, you'll have lots of friends - I just got home from helping with a really neat project for my friend - a 500 HP, wide powerband engine for a Troyer (like the cars on Madhouse), set up for hillclimb and roadracing. I do the conceptual design & component selection, and the tricky stuff like degreeing cams and designing the wiring schematic. He's a computer engineer, and a plumber's son, so the basic stuff is neat clean, tight 'n right.
If any of your kids want something to follow where odd ducks shine and we aall hear a different drummer, i'll send some links along for my racing friends - as my friend the child psycholigist (#15) says "We all get to be legends in our own minds!"

[Sheltiemama]

109. The Discovery Health channel had a special on autism last night.

One of the first scenes showed a little boy with autism lining up toy cars.

It was a really good show. One segment said researchers are finding that people have autism have larger prefrontal lobes. I hadn't heard that before and thought it was interesting.

There also was a segment about teens taking a class to learn how to respond appropriately so they would be more employable. Such a practical and useful thing!

[eilen]

115. My son used to line up his trains

He would be so involved in making sure the track was just right and then move his trains around and around. I would always wonder what he was thinking about but at the time one could only understand one word out of ten out of him.

He had to have lessons in how to answer the phone appropriately or what to say when you call someone on the phone in elementary school-- despite seeing us answer or call someone on the phone every day and seeing tv people do it.

Today he is more savvy socially. His teachers love him. His English teacher says he thinks on a higher or more complex/mature level than the other students in his participation to class discussion.

We have had talks about the problems he has had. I told him that while it seems like some things are not fair, being "normal" also has it's price. Instead of having a "special" classification, I told him he has an "individual" classification, in that he has different things to offer the world than perfectly crossed t's and dotted i's. And not that many people are equipped to appreciate or even have the ability to see it. Those qualities are what can set him apart in the adult world and, with hard work, can cause him to be very successful in his area of interest. Being creative, constantly creative/ finding connections in disparate ideas or concepts is his gold.

[Sheltiemama]

120. An "individual" classification!

What a smart mom you are. I'm a journalist, and God knows we're not "normal." We have discussions about hyphens. We are creative, though.

[Robyn66]

83. Believe me I beat myself up about that all the time

I spent every year fighting in the school and with the school. They promised me she was with good aids they promised me she was getting along. They showed me superior test scores and teachers, aides and special ed department people spoke in glowing terms about her. She had (and still has) difficulty grasping reality at times and CAN exaggerate or hear something said in a room and think it applies to her. Its part of the disability. So that makes it difficult ot be 100% sure that she is really going through what she says. Then I had people look me in the eye and promise they would help her. My daughter also had trouble with time. SHe would have things that bothered her just bubble around in her mind for weeks sometimes months and then she would start freaking out late at night about them. By then, it was very difficult to put something together that the school would take seriously. But I was constantly having meetings with the school her teacher and the special ed department.

Unfortunately I had to work, cannot afford private school or home schooling. I would have loved to have done that but I just couldn't I prayed my child was ok like these so called professionals promised she was and she did have a couple of decent years in there first second and fourth grade weren't too bad. It was third and 5th that did the most damage.

So you can judge me to be a bad parent put walk a mile in my shoes. You can't beat me up any more than I do every day.

[eyeofdelphi]

75. i am so sorry you guys have to go through this

as a parent, i'm so glad that you're standing up for your daughter and keeping her safe. and that you recognize that bullying is more than just bullying, it can lead to more dangerous things. as a kid that was bullied the day i was placed in the gifted program (why is being smart so bad?) i feel your daughter's pain. kids are punished for being different in any way. please keep being vigilant. my bullying only ended after i had attempted suicide, been placed back in school, and barely, barely escaped being raped by some football jock a month after i got out of the psych center. i was allowed to go to the community college for my senior year, which really helped.
it's truly appalling what you and your daughter are going through. why do these teachers and principals and such even get into the field if they have so little regard for the wellbeing of children?
i wish you guys all the best. :grouphug:

[knitter4democracy]

78. I have a student who's on the spectrum, and he is the valedictorian.

I started half-way through the year (third teacher they've had in that room this year--long, bad story), and I was warned twice about him. I'm only there half the day and spend the other half at the alternative high school, as I kept reminding everyone. The principal was concerned that I would punish him for doing what he needs to do (has to walk around a bit, touch things, fix things, etc.--nothing disruptive in any way), as apparently, that's been a problem with teachers in the past. Excuse me?! Why the heck would I punish a kid for not being disruptive?! I have enjoyed every minute with him in class, as he has a great sense of humor, is always enthusiastic (in a class of high school seniors, that's saying something), and works his tail off for my class.

Every once in awhile, I hear a comment made so he can't hear (yeah, right), and I make sure to address it. I deal with kids who've been bullied or who have been the bullies every day, and that kind of crap isn't allowed in my class.

Give your daughter a huge hug from this English teacher. I'd be honored to have her in my class. :hug:

[WilliamPitt]

80. (((HUG)))

[Robyn66]

82. HEY WILL

She absolutely LOVES you and your lovely wife and your mom too! But then our whole family share that!!!

I know you know exactly what I am talking about.

[WilliamPitt]

87. I do indeed

:hug:

[Robyn66]

89. I cant wait to hear you on NPR Monday!!!!

We will have it blasting on our computers. Town Hall or No Town Hall!!!!!:toast: :yourock:

[LWolf]

85. Fortunately,

A lot more time is given to autism and the autistic spectrum these days.

Still not enough, but things are improving.

I met my first aspie when he was in kindergarten. I wasn't his teacher; we just had regularly scheduled SSTs for him because of his obvious differences. From the beginning, it was an effort to serve him and protect him socially. I was on that team, meeting regularly about him, for 2 years. His K year went great. His 1st, not so great. His teacher just wasn't willing to deal with his differences. She was mentored and supervised closely that year, and her contract was not renewed at the end of that year.

He came to my class as a 2nd grader, and since we already knew each other, we got off to a good start. Spending all day with him, though, allowed me to see quite a bit more. I noticed some entrenched patterns, and I started researching. I'd never thought about autism, because I'd never HEARD of asperger's. His behaviors didn't "fit" the lower end of the spectrum. When I read about Asperger's, though, it was a solid fit. Of course, classroom teachers aren't qualified to diagnose autism. I called our district psychologist, and he met with me. He came and observed, and he contacted parents. We ended the year with an official diagnosis, and a plan in place to best serve him. I had him for 3rd grade and 5th grade as well, and he thrived. One of my "jobs" during those years was to advocate for him, and to educate the other teachers and adults he interacted with about him.

I've since had other autistic students, falling in various places on the spectrum. My experiences with that very first student have helped me do a better job meeting their needs in the classroom. Since that time, both of the districts I've worked in have begun regular staff development for teachers addressing recognizing and serving autistic students. We're moving forward.

I'm sorry for what your daughter, and others like her, experienced.

[Robyn66]

101. Thank you for what you do

Whatever you do for kids on the spectrum is desperately needed and deeply appreciated by the kids you are helping. Every bit helps and every bit of kindness is so appreciated!!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

91. darn too late to Rec. I can empathize with your daughter

Glad she has you!


In MY day *adjusts dentures*, my mother's solution to the bullying (k-college) was to scream, lecture and beat me for being ungrateful. :shrug: I tried to avoid her finding out about it, obviously. eh, she was mentally ill.

[Robyn66]

98. I's sorry you went through that

I do my best although I am not the most patient all the time. I am always ready to go fight for my daughter!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

111. Thanks, me too! :P

Well, I burnt off some karma, that I did!


Sounds like you do great! hey no one can be perfectly patient all the time---
sounds like your daughter picked the right mom. :)

[whatsthebuzz]

92. I am so sorry you had to endure all of that

I will say that while some public school systems are great, some really suck badly. I am thankful that your daughter survived hell.

[tonysam]

100. So do private schools. So do charter schools. So do "home schools."

n/t

[Robyn66]

99. THIS IS A MESSAGE FROM MY DAUGHTER SARAH TO ALL OF YOU WHO RESPONDED

She read through the responses and wanted to thank you for all of the nice things you said and for what you are doing! She said she was glad to know she isn't the only one who was bullied like that.

[eilen]

116. My nephew is being bullies by his school/teachers/school psych person

He has ADHD and a little ODD. They made him sign a behavior contract with 7 behavior goals.
No getting up from your seat
No playing with any items like pencils etc.
No outburst, unasked for noises
Must start his work within a minute of being told what to do
etc.

They gave him a contract to sign without any notification to his parents. I wasn't aware 11 year olds can sign contracts.

He has had class for about 2 hours in the past week. The rest of the time was in isolation or in the special ed class in which they stuck him in the hall for looking. Looking. at two kids in the class that were playing checkers and not focusing on his school assignment. That pissed him off and he acted out buy tipping and dropping his desk and dragging it back and forth in front of him. Then they called his grandmother (my Mom) and asked her to pick him up. Of course, every other kid in school was in their class having an Easter party during all this.

They also took away all his accommodations. They made my mom sign a paper stating they were doing so. This is also a school that gave him ISS all day for not wearing a belt. In ISS they get no classroom instruction.

Is anyone familiar on a student's rights in Tennessee -- particulary one with an IEP? The school insisted they did not have to have a meeting. I am so sure they are violating his rights.

[Sheltiemama]

103. I wish I could hug both of you.

I was bullied in school. I wasn't autistic, though, and I can't imagine how much worse that would make it. I do wonder if I'm on the low end of the Asperger's scale sometimes.

Tell your daughter from someone who's been there: This is not your forever. It's impossible to see at her age, but her life won't always be like this. My school years -- for me, all of middle and some of high school -- were absolute hell. But then you leave those people behind. You go to college. You get a job. Your circle constantly expands. You will leave behind those who hurt you and find friends who will accept and support you just as you are.

And you are a fantastic mom.

[Robyn66]

106. Thank you so much!

I sometimes stay away at night with the "I should have's" but I have to focus on the fact she has a terrific therapist and a good autism program right now. IF nothing else she has learned how to be a survivor. I am so incredibly proud of her! I am always telling her that highschool sucks because its supposed to. College is where you have fun and meet your life long friends. All of our "family" is made up of our college friends. Hubby and I met freshman year of college and we never looked back. I know its hard for her now but I keep repeating it so hopefully it will get through!

[Mopar151]

107. Big thumbs up from me!

That second paragraph is VERY important. Those kings and queens of 10th grade - they're peaking! Their life will never be better, and theyr'e clawing like hell to stay there. Stuff 'em! There's a whole wide world out there, and all kinds of cool people, places, and things to experience.

[Sheltiemama]

108. Thanks.

I wish I could tell all the bullied kids in this country that the things that matter in 10th grade won't even factor into their lives when they're adults. I wish the adult me could go back and tell the 13-year-old me that things will get better. Being bullied does make you compassionate, but it's a high price to pay. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but it's part of what made me who I am today.

[Robyn66]

127. Its so true but so hard for kids to process

You are so right though, with everything I have been through in my life I have to say, if I am happy with who I am right now, I have to accept that I had to go through everything I did in order to get here. It really sucked but I guess it had to happen.

I say the same thing to both of my daughters but it won't make any sense to them right now. I just do my best to stay aware pf their lives so I can protect them as best I can.
Take care!

[defendandprotect]

114. So glad you acted when you did -- terrible stories --

kids doing something like this is one thing and wrong --

but adults leading the chorus is criminally wrong!

And, shockingly, in schools which should be where we'd expect the most intelligence

and compassion about and for children!!!


Who was the "independent observer" and how did you find out about it?


And, may I just mention, that children with "Asperger's" and other problems that may

be autistic-like -- and I certainly have no understanding of the complications and

differences there -- seem to be quite numberous and I'm wondering if parents of these

children are coming together? Obviously, all the way down the line these parents are

going to have to be watchful and it would be helpful, IMO, if they were sharing concerns

and experiences????

[Robyn66]

122. Our observer

We live in New Hampshire there is a state agency that helps by providing a case worker who helps find programs for your child, comes to IEP meetings and helps answer questions and does as much as they can without crossing the legal threshold. They are the ones who told me that we had the right to have an independent observer come in at any time to see how things were going. All states have something like this if you have a child with some kind of diagnosis.

In my experience, as these kids are being diagnosed, the families are starting to come together on their own. Or we recognize the behavior out in public and know how to interact with the child.

I have been in a store and seen a kid who is obviously on the spectrum flipping out and if the mother seems to be at all receptive I will go strike up a conversation because I know how humiliating it is to be in the middle of somewhere and you know everyone is looking at you thinking "why doesn't she just smack her and leave" People just label kids on the spectrum as spoiled brats.

Parents do need to come together and form groups for their own sanity and to be on the same page for what the school is doing. The school can beat down one parent, but two or three sets of parents is a whole other matter. It is a LOT easier to just do what is right than create an uproar like that!

Plus we all need to find each other because we need the support. Raising kids is hard, raising kids on the spectrum can be ultra hard. But don't get me wrong, if I could give my daughter a magic pill and take her Aspergers away tomorrow I wouldn't do it and she wouldn't want it. So much of it is a gift!

That is why it infuriates me when people don't see that!!!

[defendandprotect]

125. Thank you for the reply and info . . .

and I trust you will all get together, somehow.

Needless to say, you will have support from those outside your group, as well --

that would be those in sympathy and those young parents facing new dangers they

worry about every day which might cause illnesses such as these.



:)

[TuxedoKat]

123. I'm so sorry

for what your daughter went through. I'm glad to hear she is doing so much better though. My daughter was bullied last year in 7th grade and the school did nothing about it. This year I sent her to a private school because she would almost get hysterical at the thought of going back to the other school. I also feared suicide reading about so many other kids who were bullied committing suicide. She is so much happier and healthier this year. I don't regret spending the money at all.

A few days ago there was a thread about bullying and Phoebe and someone said that they worked for a law firm that specialized in bullying cases. Maybe they would take on a case like yours pro-bono?