The Five-count Indictment Against The Hutaree "Patriots" (PDF) = Possible Revocation of Citizenship

[Turborama]

(CNN) -- Nine people federal prosecutors say belong to a "Christian warrior" militia were accused Monday of plotting to kill a Michigan law enforcement officer and then attack other police at the funeral.

A federal grand jury in Detroit, Michigan, indicted six Michigan residents, two Ohioans and an Indianan on charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, U.S. Attorney Barbara L. McQuade and Andrew Arena, FBI special agent in charge, announced.

The five-count indictment unsealed Monday charges that since August 2008, the defendants, acting as a Lenawee County, Michigan, militia group called the Hutaree, conspired to oppose by force the authority of the U.S. government.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/03/29/stone.pdf">Read the indictment (PDF)

Attorney General Eric Holder called it "an insidious plan by anti-government extremists."

=snip=

The Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based nonprofit organization that monitors hate groups and other fringe organizations, lists the Hutaree as a "Patriot" group militia. "Generally, Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the 'New World Order,' engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing or advocate or adhere to extreme anti-government doctrines," the Southern Poverty Law Center said in a report, "http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/spring/rage-on-the-right">Rage on the Right: The Year in Hate and Extremism."

Full article: http://us.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/michigan.arrests/index.html?hpt=T1

If found guilty of this count (Count 1) they can have their citizenship revoked, too: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002384----000-.html">§ 2384. Seditious conspiracy

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/III/III/1481">8 U.S.C. § 1481 : US Code - Section 1481: Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

=snip=

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by
force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States,
violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of
section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in
violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384
of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down,
or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to
levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a
court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

[hlthe2b]

1. Hmm... so where should we exile them?

[Catshrink]

2. Somalia...

where there is no government at all!

[brooklynite]

17. Good choice...

...no national health care, no income taxes, no social security, strong fundamentalist religious belief...

[WeekendWarrior]

14. Texas. nt

[old mark]

15. Or Idaho. nt

[hobbit709]

30. We don't want them here. Send them to YOUR state.

[WeekendWarrior]

31. If you live in Texas

will you please whip the rest of the yahoos into shape?

[hobbit709]

34. I live in the People's Republic of Austin, TX.

[WeekendWarrior]

35. Austin doesn't count

So you're good. :)

[Kablooie]

24. The Marianas Trench

[Cirque du So-What]

3. Even the court cannot bring themselves to use the 'T' word (terrorism)

although I'm gratified at use of the words 'seditious conspiracy.' As long as these talibornagain terrorists get convicted, that's the important thing - that and the cautionary tale it dishes up for other wannabee domestic terrorists. I'm also glad to see this story is gaining traction in the corporate media, and unless the repugs are completely & utterly psychotic, they'll STFU in their lame-ass defense of reactionary violence.

[hedgehog]

4. I think the term seditious conspiracy is better - it makes

it absolutely clear that this is an attack on America.

[Cirque du So-What]

5. Yes

I'm also glad that militia groups in other states (Kentucky, Texas) have been tied to this group as well. These nutzo groups must be called to account for their nefarious plans.

[hedgehog]

7. I think "terrorism" is too vague a term. I'd like to see anyone involved

in 9/11 prosecuted under the existing piracy laws.

[Zech Marquis The 2nd]

28. Good use of the word sedition

To me, sedition means you're plotting to attack the government, whereas terrorism is the actual event taking place. But in all honesty, they're one and the same.

Send these bastards to Gitmo and give 'em the Dick Cheney package deal :evilgrin:

[Bucky]

29. Maybe they can call in Bush's 1st Education secretary to do that for them.

[kestrel91316]

6. IIRC you can only revoke citizenship from a NATURALIZED citizen.

If there are any actual attorneys out there who know the law regarding this, maybe they can weigh in.......

[Turborama]

9. Restrictions don't apply to any of the charges in paragraph 7

I just double checked and found that out http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/III/III/1483">here.

[kestrel91316]

10. Yes, but how would that work, logistically? If you revoke US citizenship and he holds no other,

where does he GO? You can't travel internationally without the passport of SOME nation. And we can't dump a former US citizen who plainly has never lived/been a citizen of any other nation. So they get to stay here.

All it would mean is that the person couldn't vote. I doubt these freaks vote anyway.

[anigbrowl]

19. one would lose certain rights

For example, such a person wouldn't be allowed to run for most public offices, and things like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law but there is not a whole lot of legal analysis since this sort of thing does not arise very often and when it does it's usually in connection with a different country rather than a purely domestic situation. I'm not going to lose any time wondering about it until the trial has taken place.

[Turborama]

20. Good question

Which brings up a http://www.law.utoronto.ca/documents/conferences2/Constitutionalism09-Lavi.pdf">difficult paradox.

I don't know of any precedents to look back on. However, it is the law and it's there to be used if certain cases warrant it.

I just think the idea of one of these "patriots" losing their citizenship, even if it was just to take away their political rights, would send out a very strong message.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Technically they become

people with no nationality and fall under the UN High Commissioner for Refugees jurisdiction... oh the irony.

That said, in practice these guys are facing life in prison. So if they have their citizenship taken away and get to live the rest of their lives in jail, assuming they are indicted and convicted, it is really a technicality. The only reason why I'd see the Feds actually doing that is to send a signal to other militias.

It is rare as can be but the US has removed citizenship before...

And yes I have handled a family who became refugees after the mess in Central America... why I know some of the crazy details, and yes, I will have to leave it at that.

Oh and the technical term is STATELESS PERSON... in case you were wondering, and the UNHCR developed early procedures after WW II with the Displaced Person population.

[Thothmes]

25. Maybe the Philip Nolan solution to the problem would work.

[kestrel91316]

8. Regarding potential punishment if convicted.....my guess is, these guys are

looking at LIWOP.

[unhappycamper]

11. These good old boys are, as they say, fucked. n/t

[Raksha]

12. "Seditious conspiracy" is a very serious charge.

I read the indictment. They are being charged among other things with "conspiracy to wage war against the United States." Does anyone know if that's a capital crime?

I know it would be if they were Muslim. But seeing as how they are white and "Christian," is it still a capital crime? Could they face the death penalty if they were convicted on that charge?

[Ozymanithrax]

13. The laungague used follows the definition of treasons in the Cosntitution..

ARTICLE III
Section 3.
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

Treason is a capital crime in some states.

Other Statutes allowing the death penalty for non-murder crimes
Treason (Arkansas, Calif., Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Washington)
Aggravated kidnapping (Co., Idaho, Il., Missouri, Mont.)

[Turborama]

21. Surprisingly, not more than 20 years

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002384----000-.html">§ 2384. Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

[glinda]

23. Under this, does the Republican Party qualify? They are getting close....

[Scurrilous]

16. K & R

:thumbsup:

[chat_noir]

18. FReepers are on the defensive

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/militia/index

"thought crimes" pops up a lot

heh

[MadHound]

26. So the Obama administration wants to play with these toys left over from Bush

Sorry, but I think it is wrong to strip citizens of their citizenship. That also strips them of any legal protection in this country.

Throw them in jail, fine them, what have, but they need to remain citizens, with all the rights and protections that implies. This is a horribly short and slippery slope we would be going down it this law was invoked. Rather it needs to be repealed.

[Turborama]

33. I didn't say anything in the OP about the Obama administration wanting "to play with these toys"

It is the law - not sure when it came into power - and just put the possibility of this happening out there for discussion.

[melm00se]

27. has there been

a case where a naturally born US citizen been stripped of their citizenship for the above crime?

If so

1) does the convicted have the right to challenge such a ruling in the federal court system?
2) has the Supreme Court ruled on such a sentence?

[Odin2005]

32. "Seditious Conspiracy", HOLY SHIT!!!

The Teabaggers are going to be filling their diapers with this!