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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:20 PM
Original message
Petty Gossip
Edited on Sun Mar-28-10 10:39 PM by NanceGreggs
Faced with yet another resurgence of outrage over the Catholic Church’s systematic cover-up of the sexual abuse of children at the hands of its priests – this time triggered by allegations that the current pontiff himself participated in this heinous exercise – Pope Benedict XVI today chose to respond not by reassuring the faithful that such a serious matter would be investigated and addressed, but instead by adding insult to injury.

In his address to the crowd assembled in St. Peter’s Square to observe Palm Sunday, His Holier-Than-Thouness stated that faith in God leads one "towards the courage of not allowing one’s self to be intimidated by the petty gossip of dominant opinion".

One cannot help but note the use of the words “one’s self” – because, as this particular pontiff has demonstrated time and again, it’s his world, and it’s all about him, and the children who were stripped of the innocence of their childhood be damned – literally and figuratively – for suggesting otherwise.

Petty gossip. The ruination of so many lives, the emotional turmoil lived and relived by not only the victims of abuse, but their families, their neighbours, their communities – reduced, with a sense of arrogance and self-serving cover-your-own-assitude, to the term “petty gossip”, allegedly predicated not on facts as we now all now know them to be, but on something as inconsequential as "dominant opinion".

It is a phrase one would expect to see as a headline in a fan-magazine, in response to rumours of infidelity leveled against a current star-de-jour. To see it invoked by the allegedly infallible leader of millions of faithful Catholics in the context of the sexual abuse of children is, to put it mildly, an affront to human decency.

The truth of the matter is that we will never know the full extent of the truth of the matter. We will never know how many children have been abused, how many continue to keep such soul-searing incidents to themselves – out of shame for what they were subjected to, out of respect for a church that failed them completely, out of fear that “going public” will end in a kind of private hell few of us can imagine.

We will never know how far-reaching the effects of such abuse have been; how many tormented children still suffer now as adults – those who live with untold nightmares, those who have eschewed relationships, marriage, children of their own, too emotionally damaged to participate in the fulsomeness of life as the rest of us know it.

We will never know how many children could have been spared the pain, the anxiety, the humiliation of being preyed upon by sexual predators had the Church handed its pedophiles over to the appropriate authorities, rather than brazenly – and, dare I say (and I do), with malice aforethought – placing such predators in positions where their lust for the most defenseless among us could be satisfied without fear of detection or consequences.

We will never know how many priests, who had suppressed their desires for young flesh for years, even decades, were encouraged to indulge their proclivities by the knowledge that their behaviour would be officially “unacknowledged”, and their sins steadfastly protected from public view.

We will never know how many suicides were prompted, how many violent acts were triggered, how many failed lives are attributable to the actions of men without conscience, or their superiors who aided and abetted those actions by allowing them to continue unabated.

The fact is that had the Catholic Church swept this scandal under the rug by transferring its pedophile priests to positions where their access to children was non-existent, or their conduct was closely monitored, the world-at-large would have – upon learning of such things after-the-fact – understood its protective attitude, its reluctance to have its dirty laundry publicly aired, its decision to take matters into its own hands and deal with the problem behind closed doors.

However, as we now know, the “problem” was not dealt with at all. In fact, it was allowed to flourish with the full knowledge – and actual participation – of those whose solemn vows dictated the exact opposite course of action.

Transferring a priest accused of sexually abusing a child to another, never-forewarned parish is not a matter of rectifying an embarrassing problem. It is, in no uncertain terms, complicity – a complicity to ensure that those who had a penchant for indulging in sexual activity with unwilling, under-aged victims would have access to an unending supply of young flesh to prey upon, along with an assurance that should “petty gossip” hound the rapist, the victim of said rape would be quickly silenced through intimidation and/or humiliated in a public court by accusations of their own complicity – or even the threat of eternal damnation for speaking the truth.

In the secular world, the behaviour the Catholic Church has participated in is known as pimping. In the world of Holy Mother the Church, as now exemplified by the attitude if its esteemed leader, it is simply known as petty gossip.

Although no longer a Catholic, I was raised as one – in the strictest of conditions, including being educated in a Catholic school. I am the descendant of generations of German and Irish Catholic ancestors, and understand their mindset – their unwavering faith in the Christ whose teachings they grew up with, and embrace to this day.

Like millions of other present-day Catholics, they are reluctant to abandon the tenets of their faith. But their faith is founded upon the teachings of Christ, not the arrogant admonitions of a manipulative pontiff whose current focus is an attempt to persuade the faithful that he, along with the pimps who placed him in his present position, is somehow blameless for the suffering of those they collectively placed in harm’s way – not as a sacrifice to an angry God, but as a meal to be served to the most decadent among themselves.

I believe that Catholicism, as a religion, will survive. But the survival of the Catholic Church as an organization, as corrupt a corporation as the world has ever known – well, that’s a whole ‘nother kettle of fish-and-loaves.

And I, for one, will be glad to see it destroyed – and resurrected, into the state of being in which it was meant to exist, by those who are not merely disinterested shareholders concerned with the bottom line, but those who are truly “of the faith”.

As an ex-Catholic, I no longer believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, et cetera.

But I DO believe that this self-serving, ass-covering pope is about to be proven as fallible as the next guy who thinks sodomizing, raping, or in any way molesting an innocent child is not a matter of grave concern – but simply a matter of damage control, lest the collection plates be reduced to a pittance, and the coffers be emptied by legal fees and the obligations of restitution to the wronged.

On a personal note, should this missive somehow find its way into the pontiff’s hands, I would urge an examination of conscience, the confession of sins, and a solemn oath before God to do penance, and amend one’s life accordingly.

Amen.


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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. One--only one child treated in this manner is too many--thousands?
Come on people, this is not rocket science.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. And they put John PauI II
on a fast track to Sainthood.

From one ex-Catholic to another - Amen to all you wrote.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Let's remember that this Pope was a Nazi Youth member
when he was a teen. This may explain his mentality when it comes to these topics.

The Catholic church excused his past and apparantly the church excuses his failure to rid the church of pedophiles. They are playing by their own rules and the world continues to let them.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. Nazi?
And what explains the actions of the previous pope? Or all church officials who allowed this abomination to go on for (probably) centuries?
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
47. I have agree with you. I was specifically talking about the Pope
in place today.
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Betty Karlson Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
48. The previous pope was heavily manipulated
By Cardinal Ratzinger (alias Benedict XVI). As Chairman of the pontifical Congregation of the Faith (formerly the Inquisition), Ratzinger did lots of dirty jobs for the sick old man John Paul II was for most of his papacy.

The last minute stuffing of the College of Cardinals with conservatives was Ratzinger;s doing, in spite of JPII's signature, and it greatly helped Ratzinger;s election. In equal measure, the sudden changes to the rules set for the election of a new pope (a long conclave was suddenly excluded as a possibility) was done by, for, and under leadership of, essentially, Cardinal ratzinger.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. This may explain his mentality when it comes to these topics.
How about the fact that he dropped out of normal society to become a leader in an all male society that is based on the "truth" of a bunch of medieval superstitions.... that aren't even in the original books of ancient superstitions? That explains more than Nazi Youths.... But the Nazi thing does suggest a lifetime of making the worst decisions possible.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
33. Aaaaargh!
Edited on Mon Mar-29-10 07:32 AM by nxylas
I'm sorry, but I'm getting tired of this idiotic cliche. Stop me if you've heard this song before, but membership of the Hitler Youth was compulsory when Joseph Ratzinger was a boy, and it says nothing more about him than that he was born in Germany in the 1920s. He deserves to be condemned for his participation in the cover-up, but not for something that he was forced to do when he was 10 years old.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. yeah, poor guy. he was just folowing orders...
:sarcasm:

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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. I don't think many 10-year-olds were tried at Nuremberg
"You are hereby charged with having displayed a swastika while on a camping trip".
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Betty Karlson Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Ratzinger was one year away from being drafted. N/T
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Send him to The Hague immediately
On a charge of having been almost old enough to potentially have committed war crimes.
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Betty Karlson Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. He wasn't ten years old, is my point.
Please just try and do not make a hyperbole out of everything...
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. He was 10 when he first joined, IIRC
Edited on Thu Apr-01-10 05:10 AM by nxylas
He may have stayed a member of the Hitler Youth for several years, I dunno. Anyway, *my* point was that this thread was deservedly condeming him for his recent actions as Pope, and the Hitler Youth thing is just an irrelevant ad hominem. Had he been an SS officer or a concentration camp guard, then that would have been a different matter.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. see post #49.
:hi:

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. One of the most effective tools there is for smashing the insularity of
organizations is hard truth delivered in expert prose.

If the Pope ever did read this missive, Nance, he WOULD be shitting in the woods.

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. "And He ascended into heaven ...
... where He sits at the right hand of God, from whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead."

I figure that if his Popiness actually believed those words, he wouldn't be so quick to play fast-and-loose with the foundation of the religion he purports to lead.

Maybe he's got a really good lawyer, who has convinced him that legal loopholes are easily jumped through on Judgment Day.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. Hi, Nance. Yep. He may have a good legal team, because his Public
Relations team sure doesn't have a clue.

The Church is at a crossroads, or will be fairly soon. In two weeks Ratzinger will be 83 years old. For all I know he could live on to 105, but statistically, he is at the threshold passage to the next life, etc.

The College of Cardinals is going to have to boogie down and pick a replacement. Black smoke, white smoke, smoke 'em if ya gottem.

I hope they get someone willing to "destroy and resurrect."

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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #23
38. IRRC...
When he took the name "Benedict", he was indicating that he was going to be just a custodian or a place-holder until the next guy came along.

Apparently there's some sort of significance to the Naming of Popes (it's a difficult matter)...the name they take sort of indicates what they want to accomplish or be. It's NOT a random process or a case of "I liked this particular name/saint/pope"; it's closer to a job description.

Cardinal Raztenberger was JP2's closest aide, and he WANTED to retire...but the then-Pope wouldn't allow him to do so.
Then John Paul II joins the bleeding choir invisible, and the Cardinal's on the short list for the white dress and pointy hat and what are ya gonna do...
:shrug:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. Hi, badgerpup. I'm guessing there is some serious elbowing that
must go on when the College of Cardinals convenes.

I loved your assessment that the name a Pope takes on is less a favorite-name game and "closer to a job description." :thumbsup:
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Guilded Lilly Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am not a Catholic...just a very outraged human being
This kind of audacity is unbelievable, yet, really....not.

I don't know what more can happen between these men and the children they criminally abuse that will cause the true believers of this faith to force the hideously guilty men into the accountability and punishment that would crush any other man committing these acts.
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nance, You Hit Another Out of the Park!
I hope that Pope Nazinger does the right thing at this, the start of the Roman Catholic Church's " Holy Week".
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I remember the solemnity of "Holy Week" ...
... as a Catholic-schooled child.

As I said, insult to injury - this pope's arrogance, and utter disrespect for the church he allegedly heads, knows no bounds.

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. yes, that's what got me. The use of "petty gossip". A flippant dismissal of crushing pain born by
many, many adults who had their childhoods truncated and their trust violated along with their bodies.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Not to mention ...
... (but I will) how many truly dedicated priests are now reluctant to put their arms around a child in need of a hug, or display any demonstration of comfort to a child in need of same, out of fear of their heartfelt compassion being misconstrued as sexual misconduct?

Jesus wept.
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Clyde39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. His arrogant response speaks volumes
Protecting "The Church" seems to have been more important than the children!
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Mopar151 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. And protecting the Church's property holdings
Seems to have been more important than keeping churches open. And Cardinal Law skipped town, and is holed up in the Vatican.
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LittleGirl Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you Nance
As a former catholic, your words ring so true to me. I didn't go to catholic schools but I was surrounded by the religious over the years. About 2 yrs ago, I had an awakening and decided it was all a scam. I'm atheist now.
For the pope to blow this off as gossip...well, that's enough to make a lot more Catholics to turn away in disgust. He's risking the future of the church with those fighting words. I think he's in big trouble now. Those victims will revolt and more will get mad enough to come forward. He effed up big time.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. The refusal to defrock rapists and turn them over to civil authorities
has turned the Catholic Church into a de facto pedophile ring.

Everyone above the level of Bishop either engaged in it or knew about it.

The hierarchy is hopelessly corrupt. It needs to die the shameful death it so richly deserves, the various national Churches reorganizing from the parish up.

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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Beautifully and perfectly said, my dear Nance...
How sad this whole situation is...

And so completely unnecessary...

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Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. It is no wonder so many of us have left the church.
Or is it the church left us. These scandals, and the fact that we were all told that voting for W was the only moral thing to do. That did it for me.
When I came out from mass one Saturday and had a "Vote for the pro-life George W. Bush" flyer under the windshield wiper of my car, that was the last straw.

I still believe in Christ's message of do unto others, that's why I am a democrat. I believe in social justice, but I've decided to hang with a different group.

And I was catholic schooled for a while also.
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Zambero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. The church condemns pro-choice Catholic politicians
Edited on Mon Mar-29-10 01:41 AM by Zambero
but had no problem with covering up (accepting) the abuse of kids by their own clergy. I was raised Catholic, but I can only say that the church's medieval mindset and outright hypocrisy is appalling. I do feel badly for the many good priests and nuns whose life examples have been exemplary and whose faith must have been severely tested by these revelations.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-28-10 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. Nance. can you imagine if one of us
had been molested by a priest? we would have been afraid to tell mom or any member of the family because they wouldn't have believed us. mom would have said "how could you say that about a priest?" i wonder how many of the kids we went to school with were molested, but were afraid to tell.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I think about that so often ...
... and you're right.

Mom would never have believed us - and we would have been told we were going to hell by everyone in the family for conjuring up such lies.

How many kids have been permanently silenced by fear of the same attitudes? We'll never know.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. i wasn't sexually abused, but i was physicially
abused by a few nuns. i remember the 4th grade nun threw me across the floor because i didn't separate a paper the way she wanted me too. i think by the time you started school most of that had stopped. sister joseph anita did give me a slap across the face. i don't think i got hit in high school. of course, in my 2nd year of high school, they told mom to take me out or they would expel me. my dream came true. i was finally able to go to public school.

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greenbird Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. I was, too.
Catholic school in the 60s. Slapped, hit, hair pulled, foot stomped on, humiliated. It was devastating to a highly sensitive child. I often think how much more devastating the sexual abuse must have been. I don't know how people survive it. Petty gossip, indeed.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. i thought it had stopped by then.
i went to school in the from late 40s until 1956.

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greenbird Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. I went to school in the mid-60s.
And it was going on then. Maybe it differed by region, I don't know.
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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. I was spared Catholic high school because my parents couldn't afford the tuition.
It was the one time in my life when not having any money worked in my favor.

Corporal punishment had pretty much stopped by the time I started Catholic elementary school in the mid-70s. I do remember a few incidents, however. One that stands out in my mind is when Sr. Theodosia slammed a classmates head into a blackboard because he had problems with long division.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. so many of the nuns were abusive.
Edited on Mon Mar-29-10 12:59 PM by DesertFlower
wonder what their problem was.

then there were some who were just great.

did you see the movie "doubt"? when hubby and i watched it, it brought back all the memories.
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smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. The younger nuns weren't bad, but the older ones seemed to get off on torturing
children. I did see "Doubt." It was a great film and Meryl Streep's character reminded me so much of my elementary school principal.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
17. Heartbreaking.
There is no justification. None.


--
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you!
I too was raised in a Catholic home although I didn't attend Catholic school. My children both went to Catholic schools and neither of them are practicing Catholics today. My daughter tells me she's had more than enough practice to know that she doesn't buy what the RCC church is selling.
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
24. Another recovering Catholic checking in here ...
I agree 100% with everything you said. But I will add that I was and am fortunate to know many, many priests, nuns and others who have taken religious vows who are genuinely good individuals who are as horrified as we all are and who have been betrayed by the attitude of this Pope towards this literally unforgivable issue.
As for Benny 16 himself, just prior to becoming Pope (not even as far back as the Nazi past some have mentioned - "Hitler Youth" - which could possibly be forgiven considering that most German "Christian" young people of the era were practically automatic participants), he was in charge of the office of the present-day version of the Inquisition. His cavalier (to say the least) attitude towards this terrible offense and general failings of the Church as an institution are hardly surprising.
All that said, while I am not quite an atheist, I am a dedicated agnostic. In my own experience, there have indeed been more things in heaven and earth than have yet been fully explained.
If religious beliefs provide comfort to people and inspire them to behave better toward their fellow creatures, human and other, on the planet without imposing those beliefs on others or having any agenda to do so, then I respect those beliefs as they are practiced by those individuals. If they do not, I do not. It's as simple as that.
Unfortunately, I have seen little from ANY religion as an institution to commend it while I have seen much too much that is to be condemned. This latest episode only reinforces that view.
*******
Love your rants, Nance!
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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
26. while I agree with everything you have written, I do not agree with what some
have suggested, giving up the celibacy rule would solve the problem. We have had several protestant, married ministers do the same thing. Once near us it was a case of a boy scout troop in the church building. these things are not just a result of celibacy run amok but can by laid squarely at the idea that religious men will be forgiven by god and women and children are inferior subjects to men. Nothing more.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:25 AM
Response to Original message
29. In covering the scandal today, the New York Times leaves out the word "petty" in
discussing the pope's comments. Do we know that Ratzinger used the word 'petty'?

>>The pope did not directly mention the scandal, or his own role in it, but he made apparent references to the attention the crisis has garnered, saying that Jesus “leads us toward the courage not to be intimidated by the gossip of dominant opinion.”<<

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/world/europe/29catholics.html
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Are_grits_groceries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
30. One of the heartbreaking and dangerous results
of this abuse has probably been a great deal more of the same. It has been proven that abused children are likely to become abusers themselves.

The ramifications of this are immense. There may have been unleashed a great many people who would otherwise have not been drawn toward this type of behavior.
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jotsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. As the daughter of an abuser, I set out to raise my kids without the tools of fear and intimidation,
so I have trouble hearing that because no one knows the wrongness of it more than those who have endured it, but I also know there is truth in the claim.

The dynamics in a contained setting like a family has all the same earmarks but contain themselves to those born into it. What makes stories like this, and there are entirely too many of them, so repulsive is the organizational structures hidden behind to justify being oblivious to the widespread damage that is undoubtedly caused. The dismissive response to abuse, becomes more destructive than the abuse itself. That is when the diminished sense of value in self sets in, and what I contend causes the chain of abuse to grow.

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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
31. The priesthood is a magnet for pedophiles
They bugger young boys in the name of God and have the Church cover for their crimes.
Let's say a school teacher has sex with a student. There's no board of education or administrator that will defend that behavior.
With a fresh supply of new meat, pedophile priests have plenty of low hanging fruit to pick, and the Church covers for them because exposure will diminish collections.
Lust and greed have been the two most influential factors on civilization since cavemen hit women in the head with clubs as a means of seduction.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
32. Several things to say as one touched closely but (luckily) indirectly by all this
First off, at the time Ratzinger (they now call him Papa Ratzi in Germany) was in the Hitler Youth, ALL German boys who
turned 14 in 1939 or later were required to join the Hitler Youth, and he turned 14 in 1941. One of my wife's parents' best
friends (a few years younger) was in the Hitler Youth. He's the kindest guy you could ever meet, thanks his lucky stars he never
had to go through the horrors my wife's father did. He said they were all so completely brainwashed, they knew no different.
The Nazi Party controlled the schools and the media (hear that, Texas and Fox?) and no child had a chance to get another
view. Ratzinger actually refused to attend meetings of the HY and deserted the Nazi military during the closing days of the
war. It's not the Hitler Youth that turned him into what he later became.

Second, it is true that clergy of other faiths committed similar sins. A Protestant minister, the father of one of my wife's
friends, was known to have committed all sorts of sex sins with other, possibly underage women, and was never disciplined,
for fear that his office might come into disrepute--as if it weren't already the case! But I still agree that the celibacy
rule exacerbates the problem, as Catholics, as far as my knowledge of medicine goes, have the same hormonal make-up as
other humans, and therefore the same desires and drives. To suppress that is to pervert it, with predictable results.

Third, my wife is, like so many that have responded to Nance's post, a retired Catholic. She couldn't stand the double-
standard any more, and left. Her mother, who is a robust 82, is from a small town in the northwest of Germany and a
practicing Catholic. She goes to Mass all the time, and goes along with all the rituals they do there. BUT--she is also
open-minded about me, never gave me a hard time because I was not Catholic, accepted that I was not religious at all,
and never once asked me to go to Mass. Only once did we ever have a dispute. One time, without my prior knowledge, when our
girls were little, she took them to Mass with her. I blew up, and my wife couldn't understand why.

I explained to her why: Girls at age 3 and 5 don't know the difference if you tell them some fairly tale is true, especially
if you tell them that at least once a week. My mother-in-law just took them to a place where they are told they are
supposed to believe that 2000 years ago, some guy was executed in a grisly manner, his body was tossed into a cave, and
a huge boulder was rolled in front of it. Then a little later, the guy comes back to life, tosses the boulder aside, comes
back out, hangs around with his pals until his dad has him say "beam me up, Scotty," and up he goes, alive forever. I told
my wife, I did not want my girls to be told something like that is true until they were old enough to decide for themselves
if it could be true or not. If they want to believe it after having the knowledge and maturity to decide that for themselves,
fine and dandy. Until then, no more coerced trips to Mass. Luckily, my wife agreed. The girls had attended their last Mass.


In their high school in Germany, they were required to take religion classes, where they were taught about the various
versions of Christianity, Judiasm, and a little Islam. They were free to decide if any of it appealed to them. So far they
have chosen to check the box marked "none of the above." If they change their minds, at least now they are mature enough
to do so on their own.

As far as past sins, it seems to me that some prefer to see no difference between confessing a sin and atoning for it. That's
sort of like a deal where pleading guilty to murder is sufficient to not be punished for it. Sorry, not good enough.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
34. And yet this Ratsy Man slanders GLBT people world wide
And his minions chip in millions to come after their neighbor's rights. And the Protestants join in, from Rick Warren to Donnie McClurkin.
A list of those who oppose equality: Ratzinger, Dobson, Obama, McClurkin, Warren, the 'tea party', the Republican protester shoutings slurs at Barney Frank.

Those who support equality: Bishop Robinson, Rachel Maddow, Al Franken, Keith Olbermann,Europe, and Barney Frank.

How joyous! The company one keeps, they say, speaks volumes. Those who oppose equal civil rights need to look in the mirror and say "I agree with the slur shouting Tea Baggers that Barney Frank should not have equal rights." Say it three times. For it is the truth.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
39. Shut 'em down...
Edited on Mon Mar-29-10 11:24 AM by SidDithers
K&R.

South Park nailed it with their "Red Hot Catholic Love" episode.



Sid
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
43. Recommended. nt
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-29-10 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. Excellent
Shut them down.

Rec
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