My take on HCR bill being fixed later:

[ddeclue]

of course I love you.. the check is in the mail.. we don't need a contract we're friends right?

We got screwed on NAFTA too.

We'll be better off NOT passing this bill until it contains a REAL public option a la Alan Grayson's Medicare for All.

As long as it has no public option and forces a personal mandate on us to buy from the insurance crooks then it is a total giveaway to the the insurance companies and a total screwing of regular Americans.

I'd rather nothing passed than this mess.

[Skink]

1. can I get your number?

[ddeclue]

2. Phone number? msg me privately and tell me who you are in real life.

[FarLeftFist]

3. We need to pass this bill so America can enter into the 20th century.....

Then as a nation we can finally try to move ourselves into the 21st century.

[ddeclue]

4. The bill doesn't do that..we do NOT need to pass THIS bill.

we need to pass a DIFFERENT one that either institutes national health and abolishes private insurance or at LEAST implements medicare for all.

[FarLeftFist]

7. Honestly, I believe....

This bill does thrust America into the 20th century, just maybe not the 21st century. Get it? But progress is progress and I'll take an inch over nothing every time.

[ddeclue]

8. it's NOT an inch - it's a step backward - we're being forced to buy private insurance from a bunch

of crooks.

No thanks. I'd rather burn my money than give it to them.

[FarLeftFist]

15. I get it...

What I'm saying is this bill will bring us into the 20th century and hopefully it can be improved upon so we will all soon be able to enter into the 21st century like the rest of the world has done long ago.

[ddeclue]

17. Nope you clearly do NOT get it. It will NOT move us forward at all.

and it will NOT get "improved later".. that is the whole point I'm making and you're clearly glossing over.

[FarLeftFist]

23. How do you know it won't get improved upon later...

Let's not start letting things like speculation and pessimism start getting us all riled up. I've never heard of a political psychic.

[ddeclue]

25. Because I'm not naive and because I DO follow politics closely..

I hear this crap all the time.. better pass something, anything than wait to get it right.. it never gets fixed.

[FarLeftFist]

26. There have been bills that were improved upon.

[laughingliberal]

33. In a different time. I'm having trouble thinking of anything since the 60's that was improved on

later. I don't know there haven't been some. I just can't think of any.

[emilyg]

21. Hopefully is not good enough.

[FarLeftFist]

27. For millions of people it will be.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. "NOT passing this bill until it contains a REAL public option"

With the way the dems are being skewered by the gop, "progressives" & the media
there wouldn't be another chance for anything even like this for another 20 years at least.

[ddeclue]

6. Another chance to bend over and let the insurance companies screw me?

no thanks.

I'll wait for REAL reform.

[FarLeftFist]

12. this is real reform, it's just not socialism.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for single-payer, but I think that would be called something far different than 'reform'. I am being too technical aren't I?

edit: t in not

[ddeclue]

14. Nope it's not real reform..nor is it socialism..

It doesn't ban pre-existing conditions on anyone but children until 2014 which means insurance companies have 4 years to get that killed too.

It doesn't offer any REAL alternative to private insurance companies and NO a "public option" is NOT socialism, it is just offering HONEST competition to the insurance crooks. "Socialism" would be national health like they have in England.

It doesn't really do anything to break up insurance monopoly power or provide real regulation either.

The only substantial thing it does is force all of us to buy crappy worthless in-name only policies from the same crooks that are already ripping us off.

No thanks.

[FarLeftFist]

19. okay, I guess I should have hit the sarcasm button

I am FOR a socialistic style health care system. There I said it. I do think this bill is a step forward.

[Greyhound]

13. What a load of propaganda. The very idea that the condition of health care

in America will wait at all is just about the dumbest threat the DLC invented.

The health care crisis will not wait, period. They (people that matter) know this and that is why we got this whole grand Kabuki production, complete with a cast of thousands. Vote down this bill and start again, if they refuse to start again we will see an entirely new House and 1/3 of the Senate. The situation has grown intolerable, so we are having this POS shoved down our throats to put it off for "the next guys".

[emilyg]

22. +100

[The_Casual_Observer]

37. You friendlies in the gop doing universal coverage anytime soon?

[Greyhound]

39. Ah I see, we're "too left" for the Democratic Party so we must be Republik.

You guys would be really funny if you weren't doing so much harm.

[tavalon]

32. I keep hearing that and yet, I don't get it

[OhioChick]

9. I agree n/t

[gateley]

10. I don't have any faith that we'd come up with a bill containing a REAL public

option any time in the foreseeable future.

I saw clips of Truman, FDR, Kennedy, Nixon and Clinton saying "we HAVE to have health care reform NOW".

I think this bill will get the ball rolling so we can more easily get a PO/Single Payer/Alan Grayson bill in place. Those who want real reform know they have our support, and I honestly believe this is better than beginning all over again. Again.

I sure understand your frustration, though.

[ddeclue]

11. Yeah.. and they were gonna fix NAFTA too.

It will never happen. We're gonna get screwed with promises that they'll make it right "some day".

No thanks.

[FarLeftFist]

28. Do it, start a movement to have NAFTA fixed

I'm down, start it up. After all, WE are the federal government. They work for us. We can't expect them to fix it let's bring it to their doorsteps and demand it get fixed. We can't just keep talking on message boards about how horrible society is if we ourselves aren't going to do anything about it. Let's mobilize, take the lead.

[gateley]

35. I know, but I think more of us are involved and vocal these days, and not to

be trite, but we have the Internets that really seem to add some heft to our positions. I think we'll be all over this and not give them an inch. I don't think they felt that pressure about NAFTA.

[Mimosa]

42. I remember that. SAD.

Obama the candidate grabbed my heart and mind. Obama the President has turned me cynical. :(


Nobody can persuade me this is the best which could be done.

[eridani]

34. Explain why we would want the ball to roll backwards n/t

[gateley]

36. Obviously, I interpret this as the ball rolling FORWARD.

:eyes:

[eridani]

40. Great. Forward into fascism. It certainly is "historic" that the IRS

--is now going to be the enforcer for an extortionate tax paid to private companies whose business model is killing and bankrupting people for profit.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. Agreed. It will be a "shut up, we passed your damned bill" situation.

No more will be done.

[jannyk]

18. Totally Agree nt

[JVS]

20. K&R

[emilyg]

24. k/r

[LibDemAlways]

The Dems are screwed either way. If it doesn't pass, people who

voted for change will be sorely disappointed and will take it out on the party in power. If it does pass, once people find out they've been screwed over by big corporations, they will take it out on the party who did it to them. I see no good outcome.

[upi402]

29. True, we haven't fixed NAFTA even after manufacturing is GONE!

Fix it later? :rofl: Politician code for; weaken it to nothing. There's no enforcement for denying coverage. $5K penalty? Get real, if an operation costs $100K, guess which they'll pay? And somebody dies, just like before.

[tavalon]

30. NAFTA is what I keep thinking about

One thing no one has been able to explain to me is why, if this isn't passed right now, we won't get another chance for a generation or two? Is Congress closing up for the duration?

[ibegurpard]

31. bend over

cause here it comes

[thotzRthingz]

38. bravo! my sentiments exactly! K&R ... too bad you'll be ostracized for not knowing your place as an

obedient DEM. <...big sigh...>

KILL THE DAMNED BILL ... the Insurance companies will come CRAWLING back to the table (because they KNOW the current system is failing, and their bankruptcies are just around the corner -- that's what this CORPORATE WELFARE BILL is designed to stave-off)!

[johnaries]

41. You still haven't read it, have you.

:eyes: