Kucinich now helping to whip up votes for health care bill

[ProSense]

From Progressive Holdout To Whipping Health Care -- How Dennis Kucinich Is Helping Dems

Christina Bellantoni

A few hours after Rep. Dennis Kucinich switched his support to become a critical vote for the health care bill, he took to the House floor to ask wavering colleagues to join him. Astonished colleagues pointed to Kucinich darting from member to member on the House floor yesterday, saying privately they'd never seen him get so involved in whipping a vote.

It's not just progressives he's targeting to keep in the fold, it's everyone, a top Democratic aide told me. Members know that Kucinich - a staunch antiwar liberal long in favor of a single-payer system and often going out on a limb with his own agenda - is setting aside deep ideology to help get something passed. "It's a totally new dynamic. People are realizing he's doing it for history," the aide said.

Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) told me last night in the House Speaker's lobby that Kucinich's support is "a sign of Democrats recognizing how important this is."

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A senior leadership aide argued to members in a memo that momentum is on their side thanks in part to Kucinich, but also as pro-life Democrats start to say they'll vote for it despite reservations about the bill. In several cases they've made the decision after consulting with clergy, something that wavering Democrats have noticed and respect.

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[rurallib]

1. I have refrained from commenting on Dennis so far - but Thank You Dennis!

bad as the bill is, it is what we have and it is a start. The ramifications of a loss on this is tragic. And this bill will hopefully be used as a base to build on.
I have many of the same problems with this bill that Dennis has brought up over and over. Now is the time to act and then re-strategize.

[MineralMan]

2. Good for DK. His protest against the bill didn't get a bunch of

changes made, so he's decided that something is better than nothing. I hope he is convincing to some of the holdouts.

I knew I liked Dennis Kucinich. When he makes a decision, he stands by it, even if it's different from a previous decision. That's integrity.

[Spazito]

3. Impressive, very impressive...

Mr. Kucinich is walking the walk. I have to admit I didn't expect further action beyond his principled change of mind on his vote. Kudos, BIG kudos to Representative Kucinich.

Recommended.

[Tippy]

4. Thanks Dennis...

I hope it helps where my congressman is concerned, I called his office yesterday, and when I told the Staffer Dennis Kucinich was on board, his attitude changed, he suddenly had a spark in his voice and bent over backward telling me the Congressman will definitely get this message...could be nothing but am keeping my fingers crossed...My congressman according to those tracking was on board...but every time I called his office, I was told he had not yet decided.

[ixion]

5. This is a good example of why I'm apolitical

I'm always amazed at politicians and avid political supporters. They have no concept of ethics or intellectual honesty whatsoever. They believe whatever it is they're told by their masters.

I'm sad to see Kucinich fall into the same, tired shtick, but it's predictable. After all, he's a politician.

[MineralMan]

10. So, when DK agrees with your position, he has your enthusiastic support.

But, if he makes another decision, he's just another politician? Is that about how it is for you?

Good to know.

[ixion]

12. All it's about? Indeed. Ethics and Intellectual honesty is far more important than rooting

For one 'team' or another, or one 'player' or another.

So yes, you're spot on. I support positions, not politicians.

[MineralMan]

13. And DK has taken a new position, and is supporting that position.

Whatever convinced him to change his mind on this issue, he's supporting his current position.

This is nothing new for Kucinich, you know. He has changed positions many times on many issues during his political career. When he does, he then supports the position he takes.

That's integrity. Standing for what you decide is a good mark of integrity. What did you expect? That he'd work to support his former position? Why are you suprised.

As for being a politician, that is exactly what Dennis Kucinich is. Did you every think otherwise? When a strong pro-choice position was dangerous in his district, he did not hold one. Politics is politics. Politicians get elected. Idealists don't. It is that simple.

[ixion]

17. LOL... it's not integrity. It's politics.

Integrity is when you stick to what you believe.

[ProSense]

22. Integrity is being willing to admit you're wrong and

dealing with disappointment.

Did you abandon Kucinich when he endorsed Obama during the primary?

There have been several times when he likely disappointed supporters, but they still stood by him.

[ixion]

26. I am not a 'supporter' of personalities

as I've made perfectly clear.

[MineralMan]

33. That's true. You're a supporter of ideals, and that's admirable.

However, when your ideals cannot be realized in a society like ours, the practical and useful thing to do is to support the thing that moves toward the ideal.

It's fine to hold your ideals high. It's a good thing. But, to insist on them absolutely in the face of certain defeat is the essence of cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's a bad idea and you still don't get your ideal solution. You're left with nothing but bitterness.

That's no way to go through life.

[ixion]

39. I guess I'd rather be bitter than compromise my ideals

it's just the way I'm wired.

[MineralMan]

46. Knock yourself out. I'll still be working on moving things forward,

no matter how slowly it happens, if that's the best we can manage.

[ixion]

52. Best of luck with that...

I used to believe that things would change when I was younger. I guess I've become jaded in that regard, because I'm skeptical now.

[amborin]

51. integrity is not getting paid to spout non-sense

[MineralMan]

31. Nope. Integrity also includes realizing that a position is not

a valid one and making a change to a position that will advance your goals in some way. Once you make a change, integrity demands that you support that new position.

Politics or any other field notwithstanding, the ability to change is part of integrity.

[ixion]

41. I do not believe my position is invalid

If I did, I would be willing to reconsider other positions.

[MineralMan]

47. I didn't say it was invalid. I said it could not be realized at this

time. There is a difference.

[ixion]

16. Wow. Again: It has nothing to do with the Cult of Personality

It's about position, not a personality. I don't know why that's so difficult for you to understand. Oh yeah, I do. Nevermind.

[ProSense]

19. "It's about position, not a personality." No,

with the avatars, photo threads and people with images of Kucinich and his wife in their signatures, it's about hypocrisy.

[ixion]

I'll thank you not to tell my what I believe

and mind your own damn business. I am no believer in the Cult of Personality, and if you knew the first thing about me, you'd know that was true. But you don't know a thing about me, you're just making snarky comments.

[laughingliberal]

28. Just amazing how many make their decisions based on the support or lack of it from a particular

politician. I support politicians based on whether they more or less vote for policies with which I agree. The opinions of ones I respect may be a factor in my opinions but nobody is entitled to the kind of unquestioning support or vitriol I see from some.

[ProSense]

29. Who the hell is telling you what to believe?

I'm pointing out rank hypocrisy.

[ixion]

37. You've pointed out nothing

from what I can see.

[ProSense]

43. Yes, I have. Above, you admit to preferring bitterness over compromise.

It's understandable that you cannot accept the existence of hypocrisy.

[ixion]

53. For someone who is "Pro Sense" you really make no sense at all

just sayin'.

Good day, sir.

[laughingliberal]

25. Would seem it's that way for people on both sides

Bill supporters seemed to be trying to one up each other in how insulting they could be last week with many resorting to 12 year old tactics of talking about his looks, his wife, and his height. Now he's their hero.

I, frankly, do not hang my loyalty or support for policies on one politician or another. I can make up my own mind about bills and policies while taking the opinion of those I respect into account. My support or lack thereof for a politician depends on how often they support and vote for bills/policies with which I agree and how often they oppose legislation with which I agree. There are those, like Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, and Kucinich who, for the most part, stand with working class and poor Americans. And I do take their opinions into account. But I have never decided that one person or another supporting or opposing a bill was enough information upon which to form my opinion.

edited to add: last week in 1st line

[Romulox]

49. You might review the entry on "democracy" in your middle school civics primer. nt

[ixion]

54. indeed

nt

[KittyWampus]

Politics is the art of achieving the possible. It necessarily involves an opposition.

some people really shouldn't be involved in politics or pay that much attention cause they obviously can't deal with it.

[GinaMaria]

27. That's not art

since when is achieving what is deemed possible, art? Expediency is not art. Art is creating something beyond what the status quo calls possible. It's seeing farther than most and having a strong enough belief in the vision to see it all the way through. It's staying with it when doubt consumes you and the inner critic seems to have the upper hand. It's creating something very few could have imagined.

Art is too important to belittle like this.

[ixion]

55. Politics is the Art of Lies and Obfuscation

and nothing more.

[derby378]

6. How the mighty have fallen

This is pretty sad to watch. Kucinich knows the bill is a POS, yet he's now drumming up support for it.

I know he fought hard to stand for his principles, but to see him do such an about-face is disconcerting.

[Bluerthanblue]

18. you must not have thought he was very "mighty" if

you don't believe he is doing what HE believes is BEST.

He clearly said that the bill isn't what he wants, BUT it is important to pass it. And he's working hard to follow up on what was for him a VERY difficult decision. When people make difficult decisions that you don't like do you always see them as failures?

I believe his dedication to getting REAL HEALTHCARE for all of us is as strong as ever. His decision that beginning with this disappointing bill is the BEST path for us to take at this point isn't any "about-face" it's one of looking at the reality of the situation and making a critical judgment.

:shrug:

[derby378]

21. The reality of the situation is that Big Insurance gets a stranglehold on the taxpayer

I do not doubt that Dennis will still push for single-payer in the long run, but this bill is essentially a Republican bill.

It's just like driving. Choose D to go forward, R to go backward. This bill, despite its promises, will take America backward.

[Bluerthanblue]

50. Ok - let's take it from there,

if big insurance continues to bleed people dry and make obscene profits, who will the 'teabaggers' and others have to blame? How long will they be able to claim that "private industry" is so much better than "government run" programs? When it's hitting their pocketbooks the way it's bound to, will they continue to claim private insurers are the way to go?

I think the bill is pretty terrible myself. I'm expecting that it is going to make my own personal situation even worse. But it's a foot in the door. If the republicans succeed in defeating this bill, I don't believe there will be another chance at any kind of health care bill for years and years. It will prove that we Democrats CAN'T determine policy, even when we have the best numbers in congress that we've had in a long time. It will embolden more 'Palin-ites' and 'teabaggers'.

Passing meaningful healthcare shouldn't be such a difficult task. But then declaring war on Iraq should have been soundly defeated, along with suspending our Constitutional rights.

maybe it is too late for America.

:shrug:

[derby378]

56. I hear you

And my biggest hope at the present time is that we won't have to wait four long years for the bill to kick in - that Democrats will maintain large enough majorities to start further revisions of health insurance legislation before the ink from Obama's pen is dry on the Senate bill.

[lamp_shade]

7. Thanks Dennis.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. Why aren't you organizing against the other no votes?

Like some of us have been doing? I asked you why not go after the others like you went after Dennis? That is a direct question you refused to respond to, and in its place you put a personal snark. A tactic to avoid the question, but honey, everyone can read my question, and see you lash out. Bitter? Bitter is lashing out instead of engaging. Bitter can not reply. Bitter spits out insults, makes no point with them.
I asked you a question, why is it that you can not answer that question? Lord knows you know how to post. So the avoidance itself is much more communicative than your snippy comments manage to be.
If you want to do the 'one liners' routine, you need better ones. There are books on the subject, and in NY you could hit the best teachers going. They could make you funnier, and teach you how to be responsive within your over all routine.
Simply ignoring questions and returning not answers but insults speaks volumes. It tells all in fact.

[ProSense]

42. Why do you think I should consider Kucinich's vote in the same context as Stupak's

I expected Stupak to vote against progress, not Kucinich.

Maybe that's a hard concept for you to grasp.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Oh, how cute you are

The point is, one day constant slams, the next he's the banner you unfurl. Says nothing about me, I support Dennis because he favors equal rights for all Americans, unlike Obama who holds that God wants some minority groups to be have less rights than his group.
The ravings are hilarious. I knew DK would go with a yes vote. I assumed. I was not expecting him to vote no. So all the dozens of utterly hysterical posts against DK, they were pointless, other than serving as a guide to who is a right wing slander machine and who gives honest opinions from the heart.
Your post is a perfect example of what I mean. No point but to insult, no politics present at all, no discussion offered, just a slam, a baseless slam. And what exactly is the objective in that? What do you hope will be gained by childish insults? What's in it for you, kicks? Is that fun for you, acting out in ways you could not in real life? Is that the whole reason for such crap? Self gratification?
Hard to see what else could be gained from it. Hard to see the point of such words, really. I guess if that is the best you got, and you feel compelled to post, it is something.
But if you were to PM me, I'd be happy to write for you funnier, better insults to use against me. I find unfunny insults to be, well, insulting, and if you want some help next time you wish to snark at me, I would gladly raise your game up from the schoolyard, no problem. I'd gladly give you insults to use against me, because insults are a tool of my trade, making them is part of my job description. I do not mind being the target of them, if they are excellent, not meaningless prating. So give a shout out, I'll gladly rewrite your routine. It needs it.

[dionysus]

35. paragraphs. try using them some day.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. Non responsive

And yet another word starting with the letter P. Is this Sesame Street Day for you? Oscar?

[dionysus]

44. i find it hillarious that the people who make a career out of flaming obama and his supporters can't

handle it when the tables are turned and people go after dennis.

the same people who usually call the obama supporters cheerleaders ,worshippers, ect, i believe are guilty of projection in that the behavior they constantly accuse others of, they do themselves in regards to DK.

that's all.

[Alexander]

36. Oh really?

"I support Dennis because he favors equal rights for all Americans, unlike Obama who holds that God wants some minority groups to be have less rights than his group."

Yeah, that Dennis sure supported equal rights for women by being pro-life most of his career. :eyes:

Oh that's right, he "evolved" on the issue right before he first ran for president. Of course, I'm sure his change of mind had nothing to do with his presidential run at all. :sarcasm:

[ShortnFiery]

48. As a recovering Catholic who still respects "the good" of the faith, I understand Kucinich's

EVOLUTION with regard to his stance on "Choice." The vast majority of us have views that have "matured" since we were young adults.

[dionysus]

57. um, his view seemed to "mature" right when he decided to run for president.

i'm sure there was no timing involved in that...

[old mark]

14. About time. He got the publicity he was after, now he should fall in with

the party line to pass the bill.

Would you rather have him crying in public like Stupak?

mark

[rudy23]

15. Why make this post? Sincerely...

what is the motivation?

[ShortnFiery]

20. With the viciousness that so many HERE were trashing him last week, I find it disingenuous at best

that they turn around and now complement the hell out of him. Enough condescension to gag a maggot?

It adds insult to injury ... like rubbing salt in our wounds.

Dennis compromised, it doesn't mean he FULLY agrees, only that he's a TEAM PLAYER.

[G_j]

24. Enough condescension to gag a maggot

I have to agree
:puke:

[old mark]

30. I think he deserves a lot of credit for having the courage to make this change.

I don't worship Dennis, but I have never complained about him here, either - he IS a politician, you know, not a saint.
I think he had honest reservations about the bill but he also was looking for his time on TV, even if just to make his case.

I also agree with him that this is realisticly about the best we could hope to get at this time.


mark

[G_j]

45. I accept his decision

I believe is a person of real integrity, and I am grateful that he has tried so hard.

[rox63]

23. Thanks, Dennis! n/t

[WeekendWarrior]

32. Good for Dennis

My faith in him is restored.

Of course, there are those here now who will disown him.

Welcome to reality.

[mzmolly]

58. I'm looking for those who said he was a man of principle here

yesterday, to support him today. I hope they show up to support him now.

Thank you again Mr. Kucinich.