"I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted" - Barack Obama

[boston bean]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589589,00.html">Obama, March 17, 2010

Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system.

I love how the left (a pretty big part of the democratic party) is used as cannon fodder by both the Republicans and the head of the Democratic Party.

One side bludgeons, screaming, your a communist socialist dictator and the other side defends itself by saying no I'm not, no I'm not, I rejected a whole bunch of lefty ideas.

I am so sick of this shit!

[mmonk]

1. Me too. The question going forward is how many registered

Democrats are too.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

86. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

93. !!!

"We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being."

[saigon68]

612. The First term will be the Last and Only term.

[Lorien]

171. How about the" American Progressive Party"

so that the disabled and retirees would feel included? We need to do something to gain representation again.

[readmoreoften]

229. Anti-union and anti-worker folks would be included under "progressive", though.

The disabled work and retirees are older workers who need their benefits protected. There have been plenty of posts here discussing how the health insurance bill is "progressive." I vote for workers. In a better society, the disabled wouldn't be forced out of the working class into poverty anyway.

[Lorien]

267. There's no such thing as an "anti-worker" progressive

and don't allow anyone to tell you otherwise.

[Chulanowa]

293. Then you don't know the history of the term

"Progressive" doesn't always mean what you think it means, unfortunately.

[pundaint]

322. OK you're out

just kidding, but let's not get tangled up in semantics.

[Chulanowa]

360. I don't recall being "in!"

Folks of my shade don't usually make it past the coat room unless we've got some unmarked bills to pass out, after all!

I personally favor the "labor party". You say "progressive" and people say "what's a progressive!" and hten you get ten people offering fifteen definitions and it's a mess.

Labor though, everyone knows what labor is and what it means. And it doesn't exclude the retired or the unemployed or even the young, because everyone has been, or will be, a worker of some variety in our society.

[pundaint]

362. I've been trying to convince hip programmer types that unions would be in their

interest but Labor doesn't sound trendy enough. We just need to own and defend all of them to the extent they mean building and caring for a sustainable strong community.

[Greyhound]

518. LOL, I know just what you mean. A few of us tried for several years in the mid/late 90's,

and it sounds like you got the same response we did. They're all so sure that they are super talented and super smart and nothing will happen to them.

"Youth is wasted on the young."

[liberation]

361. I think you are confusing progressive with neo-liberal, as in Churchillian "liberal"

Show me a single progressive political party that has had anti-labor elements as part of its ethos..

[Chulanowa]

363. The one Theodore Roosevelt ran in

Of course, that's primarily if you compare that progressive Party to the socialist party of the era. The idea of TR's progressive party was to be a bunch of corporate-friendly centrists that still had a bit of room for the working man... So, not a lit different from the current democratic party. Not exactly anti-labor, but didn't really have labor's best interests at heart.

And then you have the soviet definition of "progressive" where it simply meant "whatever the government wants" - and non-progressives, including anyone who tried to organize outside of strict state control, got to mine salt in Siberia.

Current progressives seem to harbor some pretty deep anti-labor antipathy at times as well. You know, because we're scum that can't afford organic foods, don't have the time for mind-opening tai chi, and the like. More of a class divide than anything, but it's noticable.

[liberation]

367. Dude, the Bull Moose party was most definitively not hostile to labor.

The platform of the Bull Moose party included, and I quote: "major reforms including women's suffrage, social welfare assistance for women and children, farm relief, revisions in banking, health insurance in industries, and worker's compensation." Heck plenty of labor regulation and nature conservation laws were passed under TR when he presided as a republican. Granted he was a warmonger in terms of his international policies.

You are playing a lot of games with semantics and facts in order to fit your rather dishonest narrative me thinks.

[Chulanowa]

374. I did qualify the statement, noting that it's "in comparison to the socialist party"

He was more labor-friendly than traditional Republicans and Democrats, but still wasn't quite friendly enough. The progressive party was supposed to be a "middle way" that tried to address the needs of the workers, but do so without cutting at the bosses too much.

But don't let me harsh your sacred chao. ;)

[liberation]

377. Again, show me a single progressive party which has anti-labor policies as part of their platform

I don't recall asking for tangential arguments, semantical games, and "qualifications."

A very simple request really. Unless, as I said, you are more interested in preserving a specific narrative... :-)

[Lorien]

516. *crickets*

[Bluebear]

661. :crickets:

[readmoreoften]

421. The politics of the early 20th century are not the politics of today.

Of course most progressive parties in the past are pro-labor. But those who call themselves progressive in the US often have no concept of history whatsoever and believe the term progressive equals "socially progressive". I don't have the polls on file, but there was a recent poll showing those who call themselves progressive to answer questions to the political right of those who call themselves liberal (and those who identify as liberal aren't even necessarily very far left.)

I see no reason not to call a new party American Labor or American Workers Party. Actually, I don't really like the "American" part because I'm an internationalist and I'd worry that racist/nationalist elements would disrupt a party so-named.

[Enthusiast]

621. If they don't protect worker's

rights, they are not 'true' progressives.

[Enthusiast]

620. Thank you, Lorien. nt

[Mark D.]

206. Simpler Idea

The party alread exists in two forms. The Green Party of old, the Coffee Party of today. The latter is intentionally rejecting the 'mad as hell' Tea Party folk who are becoming more GOP every day and the former is in 50 states already. It's already there folks. Simply get them to join forces with the Coffee Party, let that be its publicity wing, let it handle the 'meet-ups' and let the Green Party become the new party of the left. Let Democrats become the 'center' and let the GOP stay on the right with their Tea baggers included. This saves having to 'form' anything, we just use what is there. Yes, Dennis Kucinich would be welcomed there. Let Michael Moore co-head the Coffee Party with the lady who formed it to add to its publicity.

[HillbillyBob]

372. I think that is a good idea

Now how to implement it? just asking. I know I come across as a critical a hole..I am not really. Just very fed up with voodoo economics and the drizzlin sh&ts from raygun forward.
The nicest dog will bite if kicked often enough.

[defendandprotect]

432. Despite Obama's comment . . . he and Democratic Party are too far to the RIGHT . . .

to be considered centrist!!

You have an extreme ultra right --

and an almost extreme ultra right now ---


And, I'd suggest that the wars he's continuing to run are "disruptive" --

That wiretapping citizens is "disruptive" --

That unregulated capitalism is organized crime -- and "disruptive" -- !!!!


And, for decades they've been getting away with this!!!

And, his arrogance/confidence seems to suggest that he knows he will continue

to get away with it!!


And, as a lawyer, you would think Obama would notice somehow that corporatism

is "distruptive" to a people's government and democracy!!!


PLEASE, let's get someone like Sen. Bernie Sanders and/or Grayson and/or Kucinich --

someone who at least is trying to be honest -- into the Oval Office in 2012!!!

[pattmarty]

224. At this stage the Green party is probably the way to go. They are.........

........already organized and have a 50 state network. Granted, they are still "green" at this and definitely don't have much money. But their "members" are pretty much always motivated are spread pretty much through the age spectrum (although most tend to be younger). I have been saying a lot lately, ya gotta start somewhere.

[Chulanowa]

365. They get plenty of money

Particularly from the Republicans. Why? Because they split the democratic base.

[pattmarty]

498. I have heard that before and believe it is way overstated.................

..........If you have any "proof" provide it. I was affiliated with the party during the 2004 election fiasco and ran as Sec of State as a Green and I didn't see a fucking dime from pacs Republicans or the GP. So if you have info, please share or quit making unsubstantiated statements.

[Chulanowa]

651. Okay

Pennsylvania: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/001256.php
Minnesota: http://minneapolisconfidential.blogspot.com/2007/05/did-republicans-fund-green-party-senate.html
Not "Green", but Greens seem to love Nader: http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-07-09/news/17435056_1_nader-voters-nader-s-campaign-presidential-candidate-ralph-nader
Former green limpets onto right-wing nutball parties: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls/messages/topic/2YCFoV5Bfra2h0Pk7ck24N

I'm sure there's more; I'm just doing a lazy google.

[The Hope Mobile]

445. +1. Liking the Green Party a lot these days! nt

[mdmc]

304. In NYS we have The Working Families Party

:kick: http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/

[readmoreoften]

422. I really like this party, personally. Voted for them when I lived in the city.

[mdmc]

618. I like it too and generally vote on their line

The WFP generally endorses the dem if the dem is not a consevative.
They will primary a con-dem, then run a third party WFP candidate if the dems run a conservative.

What I like about the wfp is that they will talk with the dems and work with the dems. But if the dems dont want to work together, the WFP will do the right thing and run their own candidate..

[pundaint]

320. Solidarity! er, OK

[HillbillyBob]

353. Screw inheritance taxes

The reason they apply to large estates 2million$ or more is supposed to keep the wealthy from buying our government, then again the rpigs have given tax relief (what a bunch of horse sh*t) to corps and millionaires that outsourced manufacturing jobs.
I say we go back to the old progressive 50% tax on millionaire incomes, instead of 15% for unearned income.'
That inheritance tax relief is a righttard talking point best to drop it.
I m all for living wages. I know how bad it is to try to get by on not enough and having to work 2 and 3 jobs to make ends meet and Im not talking about being able to buy a new car every couple or 3 yrs. Our pickup is 11 years old bought new and taken care of but the oil pump went and blew the motor..now I have no way to buy a new motor let alone a new truck. Our 'new' car is 3 yrs old we traded a 19 yr old van (push pull or drag sale..it barely made it into the dealer..in first gear 29 miles).

[defendandprotect]

447. We need to reapply the concept of inheritance taxes on the rich . . .

and whatever the tax rates on corporations were in the 1950's . . . pre-Ike --

And, we need to work on a Constitutional amendment to acknowledge there is no such

thing as corporate "personhood" -- !!!

Hope everyone is signing that petition which is at Thom Hartmann's website!

[Enthusiast]

622. Yes, everyone.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/

[Threedifferentones]

388. Amen olegraps

Really, it is way past time.

Too disruptive to the system?! A system clogged with shit needs to be disrupted!

I VOTED FOR YOU TO DISRUPT, NOT MAINTAIN, THE STATUS QUO.

[Bluebear]

409. THAT'S what I'm talking about!

[readmoreoften]

425. +1

[emsimon33]

493. How about Americans for the People Party?

That way we could also be for retirees, just not the idle rich.

[Political Heretic]

610. It's sad that the Democratic Party isn't the American Workers Party :(

[Cary]

613. Enough maybe to lose elections for Democrats and to win for Republicans

You people have such short memories and are so shortsighted you leave me speechless.

[uppityperson]

103. Funny how Op hid it is FOX NEWS EXCLUSIVE, and incomplete quote.

Sorry for the yell, but thought this was important enough to yell up high in the thread. Maybe no one else noticed, maybe someone else might care to see this.

Here is the rest of the reply

OBAMA: — the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.

[EFerrari]

122. I don't see how that's better, unfortunately. He didn't say

"I have rejected provisions from BOTH SIDES that would be too disruptive". Am I missing something, I'm a little upset right now.

[uppityperson]

125. I find hiding sources and incomplete quotes to be

manipulative. Read the whole thing. Yes, he said that, as part of a larger interview.

I find hiding the source, and partial quotes to be manipulative. Why not give the source, why not give the complete quote in context and let us make up our minds.

[EFerrari]

131. Yes, it can be manipulative. In this case, the context doesn't seem to

contradict the portion that was given.

[laughingliberal]

198. That's what I see. nt

[xocet]

243. Moot Point....

You are correct regarding proper referencing of presented materials, but the expanded context here does not actually change the meaning of the excerpt.

[defendandprotect]

465. Really, the attempted manipulation seems to be coming from you ...

Nothing changed in the comments --

nor have any of our conclusions changed ---

Obama sucks!

[uppityperson]

468. "Obama sucks!" My my my, you do have a way with constructive criticism, don't you

Whereas I only write what I disagree with and how it could be made better, you are the erudite author of "Obama sucks!" Congratulations.

[defendandprotect]

471. I think the myth or theory of "constructive criticism" and Obama would be

as we have seen over the last year, a waste of time --

I've read the comments here: my conclusion is "Obama sucks!"

Or do you really think that people are looking for another party to join --

and/or another candidate to replace Obama in 2012 --

because we think he's done "good"?

Let's remember, we still have the Bush/Obama two wars raging --

bankrupting our Treasury -- with Dems refinancing these wars for three years now ...

after confirming they had been elected "to end the war."

We still have trade agreements unamended because Obama doesn't see the need for it!!

We still have corrupt capitalism rampaging free from re-regulation --

and not a peep from Obama.

We have corporatism having taken hold of our government and no move by Obama to push

for a Constitutional amendment to knock down the inane concept of corporate "personhood."

Though Obama is giving prime leadership to destroying what's left of public education by

pushing charter schools while blaming teachers for what's wrong with this government run

program -- LNCB -- and it's also a handy way to destroy one of the largest unions.





And, again, you're making a fuss over nothing re the OP . . .

[kath]

528. Good list. You forgot to say that Obama is OK with torture, and that there will be NO investigation

of the war crimes and multiple other transgressions of BushCo -- which is utterly outrageous, to let those fuckers get away with it all.


"Change we can believe in", my ass!!

[Gormy Cuss]

175. I agree with you.

The full quote doesn't make it any better. He made it clear that only centrists have his ear.

[uppityperson]

182. I agree with you "He made it clear that only centrists have his ear."

The full quote didn't make it better, but having the full quote is more honest than a partial quote. That is my beef here.

That and I do agree with you that Obama is a centrist and only centrists have his ear.

[Uncle Joe]

387. That brings up an interesting point.

What is a centrist?

If one side is correct on an issue and the other side is incorrect, what is the middle of that?

[uppityperson]

399. AND the point that if the center has moved right, which "center" are centrists in.

[Uncle Joe]

404. Exactly!

[defendandprotect]

467. Looks more like Rep. John Conyers nailed it: "Obama only listens to Rahm" . . .!!!

and that's corporate-speak that comes from DLC/Rahm . . .

[Mark D.]

208. Darned Right!

I noticed that too. The 'left' has the 'wacko ideas', and his 'centrist' view is great in that it includes the implied 'more reasonable' right wing ideas. Thanks a lot Mr. Hope.

[rcrush]

242. Agreed. Doesn't really change what he said.

It even enforces it.

[CrispyQ]

346. In other words,

he doesn't want to cause a disruption to a part of the economy that is a "huge drag on the economy." :banghead:

[EFerrari]

351. Because change is disruptive.

[CrispyQ]

371. I guess that's why he changed his mind on so many campaign promises -

it was less disruptive than actual change.

[defendandprotect]

469. Did you think he was going to admit why he's really done this?

Otoh, you know that war isn't "disruptive" . . . right?

The FU with the economy which occurred because Wall St spent $5 billion to overturn

New Deal regulations wasn't "disruptive" . . . right?

And, of course, trade agreements aren't "disruptive" -- !!!

Repeat afer me . . . only MEDICARE FOR ALL/SINGLE PAYER is "disruptive" . . .


to corrupt capitalism/elitism/corporate power, corporatism, that is . . . . !!!


New question: How stupid does he really think the public is --

we've upchucking at his arrogance ....

Does he really think anyone believes this garbage??

Ah, yes, arrogance!!

[ChiciB1]

375. Just Finished Reading The Article/Discussion And What Strikes Me Is This...

The very same statement that you noticed EFerrari. He DIDN'T say BOTH sides, he said "the left" and it makes me wonder WHY he made the statement at all. One could look at it several ways I suppose. Perhaps because he's been called everything from ultra-liberal, socialist and even worse, he might have wanted to distance himself from those "tags."

But then you can also look at it in another way, kind of the RAA-UUUMMM-ish retarded comment whereby the WH thinks it's best to disregard "the base" and focus more on being "centrist/right." And IF we were to look at it that way, then I would conclude that "the base" seems to be of a lesser concern to Obama and those working in the WH. Even if you were to use Progressive rather than Left!

Regardless of HOW it was intended, I personally feel offended by what was said. IF, as Obama has said that "we should work together" and IF he wants to maintain his belief in the "middle ground" theory, then this wasn't a "middle ground" comment. Does he REALLY understand that "the other side" is working AGAINST him even at this late date? And if he doesn't SEE how they have done almost anything to make him look bad, when will he understand it?

If I were the WH, I would be calling them out and using my position to play HARD BALL in the best possible way. I realize many think his calm demeanor is admirable, but I MUST say that there ARE times when "calm" just won't win any points much less a GAME!!

For me, this is a problem and it tends to re-enforce my opinion that the WH has leaned much further to appease THEM, than to their OWN BASE! It makes me feel uncomfortable and I'd rather not feel this way.... REALLY!!

:nopity: :dilemma: :banghead:

[boston bean]

128. excuse me uppity, but Obama DID the interview on FOX NEWS. It's a transcript I linked to.

Are you disparaging Obama for going on Fox News. If not, don't disparage me for using a quote from an interview that Obama agreed to with FOX NEWS!

[uppityperson]

No, I am taking you to task for HIDING the source and giving incomplete quote

neither of which are honest.

[boston bean]

134. I hid no source I linked to it. Obama did the interview with Fox. You are trying to disparage this

post because I linked to fox news. Well, Obama did the interview with FOX!

And again, I took nothing out of context, I linked to the entire transcript and I quoted it as he said it.

And he meant it to disparage lefties and uses lefties as a defense from others calling him a commie.

I AM SICK OF IT!

[uppityperson]

139. Incomplete quote. Here is complete quote to answer, vs what you say is complete

Complete quote:
OBAMA: — the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.

Your quote:
Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system.

Notice the difference?

Edited to add, here is what link in OP looks like:"Obama, March 17, 2010"
Here is what it goes to "http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589589,00.html"

I am done kicking this. If you cannot see the problem, that is your problem. If you are going to be upset about something someone says, if you are going to stir up others, at least be honest about what was said.

[EFerrari]

143. There is no difference. And you only have the whole quote because

the source was linked for you.

There is no dishonesty here. That's just over the top.

[Name removed]

355. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

373. Are you seriously calling me a "repub...defend Obama no matter what he does"? Sickening indeed.

Ed to add, simply because I would like full quotes and non-misleading linky things to click on does not mean I in any way defend what an article is about. Don't assume too much.

[boston bean]

144. It's a transcript that Obama gave an interview for with FOX NEWS. What is wrong with the source?

I use the code that DU gives for links. you think that is hiding something.

For chrissakes.

[harkadog]

160. There is no difference in the context at all

Give it a rest.

[laughingliberal]

203. True. Context is exactly the same. Provisions the left favored were disruptive to the 'system'

Oh, and 'system' = profits.

Funny, I can't recall any provisions he rejected from the right. Tort reform? Great! Excise tax on benefits! Lovely! Employers invading their employees privacy? Perfect!

[Bluebear]

271. +1

[Mark D.]

218. Sorry

The above 'darned right' response was intended to say: "darned right that it's wrong that he's painting the left as having far-out ideas' and he's lauding his centrist view which is nothing more than appeasing the right. Let me make it clear, he's throwing the left under the buss and cozing up to the right wing with this centrist crap.

[Atticus]

441. I saw the problem and was about to take the time to cut and paste the relevant sections.

But, your post sums things up very well and I agree with it entirely.

Whether intended or not, the OP was misleading and inaccurate.

[uppityperson]

450. Thanks Atticus.

I appreciate the time you took to write this.

My beef is not with the ugliness of the Fox interview, but with the presentation.

[boston bean]

472. You agree with my post, but you don't like my presentation. well whoop deee doooo.

[Atticus]

483. Having unfairly characterized the selectively quoted article in your OP, you have now unfairly

characterized the post of someone who disagreed with that OP.

That's "disagreed", i.e.,the opposite of "agreed", with your post.

whoop deee doooo, NOT!

[boston bean]

488. you might want to re read uppitys comments and then edit your post. nt

[uppityperson]

484. Yeah, I'm odd in taking offense at a partial quote from FOX link that looks like something else

I've been off Du a bit on a trip, guess I missed the notice where partial quotes from FOX is acceptable. However, I do find links that are changed to look like something else rather disingenuous.

And it would take so little time to simply post a link showing what it is (unless one were concerned others wouldn't click on it if it said FOX).

[boston bean]

487. You are being a very disingenous person. As you know, OBAMA GAVE AN INTERVIEW TO FOX

are you pissed obama gave an interview to fox, for the same reasons your upset that I used a commonly used practice to give a link.

I wasn't hiding one god damned thing. It's a freakin transcript for chrissakes, not an article.

[Atticus]

662. You are EITHER incapable of comprehending the written English language OR---

you simply find it inconvenient to admit that you understand.

Whichever it is, the effect is the same: you are coming off shrill, hostile and silly.

We're done.

[boston bean]

666. LOL

[Name removed]

448. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DesertDiamond]

165. I think the OP did reveal the source: Obama.

[Bluebear]

410. Indeed.

[Bluebear]

411. Indeed.

[Jamastiene]

515. True.

[Tansy_Gold]

655. Indeed. But if it's only one paragraph, or two, out of the whole interview,

isn't that taken out of context? Shouldn't the whole interview be posted, so everything is there and nothing is out of context? :sarcasm:

"Context" only matters if it either adds to, detracts from, or alters the meaning of what's been taken out of that context.

Nothing in the original quote was changed by returning it to its "context."




Tansy Gold

[bobbolink]

190. Well said. Its a shame you need to defend yourself this way on a "progressive" forum.

:applause:

Thank you for posting this.... its not a surprise, but it certainly makes it clear.

At least he was honest, for a CHANGE.

[freddie mertz]

358. +100000 million. It is a crying shame.

But as Obama and the Dems lurch ever closer to the right, it becomes more necessary.

We are dangerously close to a tipping point.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

626. And the most disconcerting thing about this is that it doesn't matter how far right he drifts

the wingnuts will still call him a "socialist," "communist," etc. Doesn't he get it. Leaning over to kiss their asses won't work no matter how much he does it. Didn't he learn anything from Clinton? The more he tilted right, the more the Republicans hated him. For them, it's not about principle. It's about power...their Machiavellian quest for it, regardless of the stakes.

Either Obama is incredibly stupid or he's in on the take.

Change I can believe in? Fuck, no!

Yesterday, my conservative, former Republican friend who voted for Obama asked me if I would be willing to canvass in Virginia again for Obama in 2011/2012. I said no...not unless he stops demonizing the "left" and taking his base for granted.

[Mithreal]

223. .

[readmoreoften]

234. Oh please. That's a stretch.

[pattmarty]

240. Well, there ya have it. He went on Fox "news" to pander to the.........

......more saner of the RW crazies who watch that shit.

[mdmc]

313. Thanks for the whole quote

It really isn't any better, but I appreciate the documentation that you provided in your reply to the OP.

Peace and low stress..

[Ken Burch]

352. There's no difference between "reject(ing)a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted"

AND "perpetuat(ing) a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time".

Only the things the left wanted were ever going to change anything. If Lieberman can live with what's still in the bill, that in itself proves that what's still in the bill is worthless.

[defendandprotect]

439. Well, doesn't change anything -- this is right wing health care, providing very little . . .

except tons of money to corporations!!

[Canuckistanian]

499. Now with added propaganda

This whole "one-sixth of the economy" is a classic RW talking point.

Why TF do you think it's 1/6th of the economy? Because the insurance companies MADE IT ONE FUCKING SIXTH OF THE ECONOMY with HIGH PRICES EXTORTED FROM a CAPTIVE AUDIENCE.

[inna]

584. LOL. What a pathetic attempt to defend the undefensible.

I'm not even sure why you tried. :shrug:

[uppityperson]

663. Whoosh. Where do you get that assumption?

Who is "defend the undefensible"? HOW is asking for a full quote rather than partial "defend the undefensible"?

Good grief. Not sure why you tried, yet you just had to make such an accusation based on some assumption you jumped to.

[Political Heretic]

611. So.....how does that make it any better?

[uppityperson]

664. It doesn't "make it any better". It makes it more complete.

It isn't defending anything, but asking for completeness. Good grief, partial quotes are not ok. Let's get upset at full quotes.

The full quote is no better, but it is a more complete quote. That is all. Seriously, is it THAT big of a deal to simply provide the full quote?

[Svafa]

135. So tired of Progressives being demonized...

by members of both parties. I laugh when people complain that the two main political parties are too polarized in this country...they are nothing but different names for the same party. Maybe one is slightly less right wing than the other, but not enough to make any practical difference. I wish other political parties would stand a chance but lobbyists and the corporate media have seen to that, making sure that whoever is president, (s)he will always be a shill for corporate interests.

[Mithreal]

226. +1

Please post more often.

The Republican Party is a shadow.

[CrispyQ]

378. The dems will toss us a few more crumbs off the banquet table than the repubs will,

but the fact remains that the People will never be invited to sit at the table. It's reserved for the elite only.

Welcome to DU, Svafa! :hi:

[Mark D.]

225. Me Three

The question is, how stupid do they think we are? Really.

No Single-Payer at the table, the GOP definitely won't go for it. Strip out Medicare expansion, they won't want that. Bring the Public Option from Medicare +5 to a limp noodle. They still won't cave. If we get rid of the Public Option entirely, we can always expand 'non-profit health centers'.

Oh, they don't like it either, but we did get Olympia Snow (I think). Oh wait, drop that last one, Lieberman may sign on. Nope. That didn't work, he doesn't want the bill at all. OK, we knocked it down 20 points on the progressive scale. Center enough for the GOP yet? NOPE! Not one of them will vote for it, nor will Lieberman.

OKAY - this is where they think we are stupid. They'll 'push this through' now. Great! They wouldn't vote for the earliest proposal which was far better, and are no more inclined to vote for this. So why did we compromise? Why aren't we putting back in what we took out to appease them? Why are we even trying to pass this? Clearly not for them. Not for we the people either (the majority of Americans reject this because of what we gave up). For insurers, pure and simple.

They and the GOP that can say 'we listened to you, America' in a populist message, are the winners. The Democrats behind this garbage bill are clearly so happy to get the insurance company money, that's all that matters. Like I'd said before. Time to join the Green Party, and use the Coffee Party to plan the grass-roots activism. But this time, for a politician that's not for sale.

[Tansy_Gold]

2. "The System" -- the corporations -- is more important than the people?

I guess so.



TG

[boston bean]

5. yep.

[Stuart G]

614. agreed...sad but true.

[havocmom]

14. Tansy_Gold: Spot on as usual

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

47. I don't think this man wants a second term. His open comtempt

for the Democratic base is startling.

[avaistheone1]

91. How can anyone any longer contend that Obama is not arrogant

as he continues to disrespect his own support base.

I am beginning to think Obama would be happier working on Wall Street doing God's work at Goldman Sacks.

[EFerrari]

99. He's only doing what the whole leadership does. He's not special.

Remember, Nancy Pelosi told the press that we, her constituents, weren't her constituents when we demonstrated for impeachment and she simply refused to have townhall meetings for YEARS. Remember Rahm's foul mouth. I can't think of other instances right now because I usually try to suppress that stuff.

[avaistheone1]

114. Then the politicians you mentioned are also arrogant not only in their words

but in their behaviors.

Arrogant is one of the more polite words I would use to describe them.

[EFerrari]

120. There is a note of impunity that has gotten louder since they took the majority.

I agree.

[Lorien]

161. And since the SCOTUS ruling it's gotten worse

because they know that they no longer need any of us.

[EFerrari]

168. Yep. We're basically window dressing now.

[CrispyQ]

389. SCOUTUS ruling + electronic voting machines = STFU to the People

I'm more disgusted now than I was in 1980 when the whole Iranian hostage situation was manipulated for the benefit of Reagan.

[readmoreoften]

427. I was wondering why the plutocrats let Obama win when electronic manipulation is possible.

I'm pretty sure there is no "voting" solution anymore. It's gotten to that point. I wish it wasn't this way. But I don't think there is any space for the CENTRISTS of 1980 in this political system, let alone the left.

[CrispyQ]

449. IMO, they let Obama win because McCain/Palin scared them more.

Bush wasn't the sharpest tack in the pack, but even he wasn't as stupid & batshit crazy as Palin. Bush worships money, just like the elites. They couldn't risk that McCain would die & have someone they couldn't control in the White House.

[readmoreoften]

502. I think they needed a Democrat to dismantle education, unions, and healthcare.

Can't make those gains with Republicans. They needed to own both sides of the aisle. That's my two cents.

[defendandprotect]

460. Because they needed someone to further dismantle the Democratic Party . . .

and demoralize Democratic voters -- !!!

[defendandprotect]

461. And there's no way around the computers . . . even if you do mail-in vote . . .

they all still get "counted" by computers!!!

[CrispyQ]

629. Yep. Once the ballot is digitized, it can be manipulated.

Every election, my county makes big claims about our paper ballots, which are scanned into a computer. :eyes:

[diva77]

589. This should be a bumper sticker!! You nailed it!!

:hangover:

[Tesha]

"Give him time..."

...He'll get that job!

Tesha

[Hawkowl]

277. No. Millions in speaking fees is his plan

As a fierce proud member of the left, no way in hell am I voting for this douchebag again. No politician ever gets elected by constantly attacking their own base. He is far worse than I even imagined he could be.

[Lorien]

319. Maybe a position on the board of Goldmann Sachs?

after all, they seem to be a sort of "global government' far more powerful than the Presidency.

[defendandprotect]

459. It's the very word I used in my comments . .. "arrogant" . . .

It's not to early at all to be thinking of 2012 -- and 2010 ....

[icee]

142. Never seen anything like it--

[Lorien]

158. I'd be willing to bet cold hard cash that he doesn't run for a second term

he's dropped plenty of hints about that already.

[Mithreal]

227. He got what he came for, wouldn't be surprised either.

Just a bonus if he could blame Progressives too.

[Mark D.]

228. All Smiles

With Bush, who he refuses to go after, along with Cheney. I think he's cutting a path for Jeb now.

[glitch]

197. It's chilling. nt

[KoKo]

462. It truly is.... I don't think he wants second term, either. Don't think he expected the first one

truly upsetting.

[icee]

150. What I think, and I have been afraid to say it until now. There has to

be more in it for Obama than getting health care passed, when while doing so he is destroying his base and maybe the Democratic Party. I think there may have been inducements involved. Nothing he is doing makes any sense.

[Mark D.]

236. It Makes Sense...

If you allow some conspiracy theory views of conspiracy theories.

I'll elaborate. The most demonized Democrat by the right ever.

Questioning his right to even run (his citizenship).

Alex Jones and the fringe see something nefarious.

They call it 'far left' or 'socalist'. What a ruse.

Only they don't know it. But he does.

He's not working for the left after all.

Like Mousolinni on the right, who said corporations are the best.

Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss. I mean HIS boss.

The coprorations. The real owners. Google George Carlin & Real Owners.

[icee]

251. Well said, MarkD. Furthermore, I believe he was allowed power

by the coporatists, who at some point in the election looked at McCain Palin and said no way. The ruse you mentioned was used simply to give Obama credibility as a real liberal, when he had been turned long before. Far left, socialist: these handles played into the corporatist's hands. There really wasn't much to discuss in the January, February Pharma-Insurance deal. They prolly just sat around drinking root beer koolaid and laughing. We are officially a fascist State. And why did we, the liberals, the smartest of the electorate fall for it? Because we were wounded. We lived through the horror that was Bush. Our economy is falling apart. We are at the cliff. And then he comes Obama riding in on a white horse, a different kind of candidate in many ways. And hope and change began, which is EXACTLY what we needed. I even fell for it. Oh, well, 25 more years of Republicans. Does it really make any difference? I just hope my stalag has a clean john.

[Tansy_Gold]

295. I think the corporatists realized McCain/Palin was too dangerous

even for them. Either of those two would have been very happy to start a nuclear war and blow the world to toxic smithereens.

Obama, on the other hand, would provide a smiling cover for the dominion.


Tansy Gold, who really doesn't believe in conspiracy theories but finds this one chillingly believable.

[icee]

305. They sure as hell didn't need an Armageddonist (Palin) suddenly

taking the reins if John McCain had a stroke or blew a CA. More and more things fit together. I'll bet we are never deer in the headlights again.

[tonysam]

405. No. The GOP threw the election when the economy headed south.

They wanted Obama stuck with the mess, and then they could come back in 2010 and 2012.

I NEVER counted the GOP out--ever.

[icee]

444. That may be part of it.

[defendandprotect]

510. That's also possible -- logical, reasonable --

[defendandprotect]

508. Mainly agree with you both . . .

but really don't think the elites were shy of McCain/Palin ...

I think they knew the public wanted CHANGE . . . and they simply gave

us something that looked and sounded and acted like CHANGE . . .

but it turned out to be the same ole, same ole. Bait and switch, as some have said here!!

PLUS the public had trust in a man of color -- they took advantage of that --

Would have been same with HRC -- trust in a woman --

But, what we have to heed is what Justice Thurgood Marshall said as he was retiring and

everyone wondered if Poppy Bush would put another AA in his seat?

Marshall said: "It's not the color of a snake that's important --- it's whether or

not the snake bites!" --

After that, Poppy appointed the perverted Clarence Thomas -

and in Obama we've got a snake that bites!!

Very, very sad to say!!!

Sad for this country and our citizens!!

[Mithreal]

237. I have some very weird thoughts about this, even some that come off

making Obama seem less bad. I know it's bs and too soon for me to say this but here goes.

What if Obama saw the landscape and decided the biggest danger for this country was the fault line between conservatives and progressives and decided to sacrifice himself on trying to heal that divide? The batshit crazy party isn't coming back to sanity on its own. Even if true, I think this was miscalculation and error to the extreme, but I have a lot of weird thoughts trying to come up with some rationalization for his betrayal. Yeah, I get it that some say he is a proud asshole, er centrist, so maybe we should just take his word and not try to come up with excuses for him.

[icee]

253. There nothing wrong with a moment of healing speculation, although

the severity of actually telling the insurance folks "no public option" while you are telling whomever your base is "we need a public option" seems conclusive.

[Mithreal]

255. I just don't understand him.

[mdmc]

323. there is an easy answer to his behavior

the left can't go anywhere - the dem party is the only game in town.
the left can either work hard for Obama, or go home.
Obama knows that there are only two choices, the corporate GOP or the corporate DLC.

We are 'free' to stay home and allow the corporate GOP to come to power.
We are free to vote true left - Nader or whoever carries the leftist torch..

But Obama knows that we will either stand with him or do nothing. If we do nothing the GOP wins. If we stand with Obama the DLC wins. Either way working people lose and corporations win.

The whole good cop bad cop thing..

[Mithreal]

341. I am there as well.

[Ignis]

369. +1, that's it in a nutshell. Where are Lefties going to go?

The political reality of 2-party politics in America leaves us very little alternative.

[CrispyQ]

396. What is the difference between going over a cliff at 100mph & walking up to it & jumping off?

The descent is still the same.

I voted for Obama, because even though I knew he was a corporatist, I thought by approaching the cliff at a slower rate, we would be afforded the opportunity to change direction, but that's not happening. We're still headed for the frickin' cliff & it's approaching only a little bit slower than before.

And Dick Cheney is still a free man. :grr:

[eridani]

418. There is another option. PRIMARY the bastids!

Part of this is the left's fault, meaning me and my fellow boomers who had no use for electoral politics in the 70s. A few of us like Kucinich and Sanders started to run for and win local offices back then. What if they had been joined by many others? Being in grad school as a scientist, I couldn't have been one of them, but I could at least have supported a few others. The whole context that a president operates in would have been different if we had done that.

[defendandprotect]

522. Whatever liberals/progressives do, we have to do together -- as a bloc --!!

Well, the nation was put on the road to fascism immediately after WWII --

see Operation Paperclip -- tens of thousands of NAZIs brought into America under

direction of Allen Dulles. Founded the CIA with them -- funneled them into the FBI.

The stage was set for overt violence and it happened -- that's the only way the right

can rise.

We have a long period of political violence by the right wing -- that's how it happened!

How many Kucinich's and Sander's could you have had in Congress that they could not have

targeted just the way they did target the really "Dems" they got rid of?

The coup on JFK was also a coup on our "people's" government -- they weren't about to

let the Democratic Party challenge them, investigate them. Also remember, it couldn't

have been done without LBJ in the presidency!

The computers -- the large ones used by MSM -- and the electronic voting computers then

began to come in during the mid-and-late-1960's -- just about the time that we were

passing "The Voting Rights Act"!! Coincidence?

Was there ever a "Southern Strategy" or were there simply stolen elections?

Humphrey/Nixon -- 100,000 vote difference? I think we need to rethink every election

back to that time!

[Art_from_Ark]

548. Humphrey-Nixon

Don't forget the Wallace factor-- He won 5 Southern states, including my state of Arkansas. I remember some friends' parents and voting-age siblings getting all excited about Bobby Kennedy, and by golly, they were gonna vote for him. And then Bobby was assassinated, and they turned around and voted for that jackass Wallace!

[defendandprotect]

583. Right . . . of course. . . there is only one way the right can rise ...violence ...

And they're still at it --

They say Poppy Bush/CIA ex's clear the way for them --

Long, long time this has been going on --

And, I think there are still people who sit in front of their TV's thinking . . .

"if there was anything to really worry about, they would be telling me!"

Wallace was also a victim of this right wing violence -- he was shot --

clearing the field for Nixon?

[eridani]

615. I agree. We can't primary everyone who deserves it.

We need to be selective and go after the ones who are too conservative for their districts.

[defendandprotect]

520. Masterpiece . . . !! K&R ...

Short term you are absolutely right --

Long term -- any other thoughts?

Michael Moore/Thom Hartmann rec working for a Constitutional amendnemnt to

put down concept of corporate "personhood." That's one way --

But, essentially, all power seems to have been taken from the public's hands.

I find it highly unusual that no one from the Democrats -- past or present --

is moving to lead liberals/progressives in another direct . . . "out of the desert"

so to speak! Too dangerous?

Let's be honest . . . we're dealing with fascism . . . and a right wing that has

come to power on violence, assassinations and vote stealing -- at the least!



What we do have is what we have seen in other fascist situations --

it's simply the power of the powerless ... if we can figure out a way to use it!!

[stranger81]

601. Exactly right.

This is so freaking discouraging.

[eridani]

416. That may well have been so. Maybe the problem now is

--that the presidency itself is just too goddam insulated for him to have a prayer of actually seeing what is going on.

[defendandprotect]

524. I think you're grasping at straws . . . look at the people Obama has put in power ????

DLC and corporatism all the way!

[eridani]

616. It's what I expect of someone who spends all his time in a gnotobiotic bubble n/t

[defendandprotect]

652. Nader just commented that Obama is surrounded by "warmongers and MIC" . . .

I agree --

And, this attack on the LEFT is something that should wake us all up --

but doesn't seem to!!

[defendandprotect]

513. If this was unique . . . if this were Obama's only betrayal . . .well . . .

I'd go with you -- I think we'd all be searching for an explanation --

but there's too much now -- from wiretapping to keeping these wars raging --

wars which are bankrupting the Treasury --

Look at the appointments, over and again -- they show the direction he's moving in --

predictable.

No change on trade agreements --

No earlier end to the tax cuts for rich --

No real jobs program, except thru corporations --

No reregulation of capitalism -- banks, Glass-Steagall!

On and on --

Wish you were right, however, because I think we always like to hang onto some hope!!


Did you see Howard Dean on Rachel tonight?

Said this is NOT health care reform --

It is a "Romeny-like" health care package --

I didn't see all of it -- just that part.

AND, basically none of this goes into play for 3-4 years!!

While we begin paying immediately!





:)

[Mark D.]

238. Dupe n/t

[GreenArrow]

299. What's in it for Obama?

He gets to be the first black President. No matter what the rest of his Presidency is like (and so far, it's been pretty lousy, IMO) he'll always have that distinction, not to mention the various perks and advantages that go along with the position itself.

[icee]

337. Yeah, and maybe more $$$$$$$$$$$

[Lorien]

514. A lifetime position on the board of Goldmann Sachs? nt

[GreenArrow]

544. How 'bout a seat on the board of the Carlyle Group?

That might interest him. I think Tony Blair got one.

[Bluebear]

605. .

[defendandprotect]

463. Right ... had he done "Medicare for all" . . . Dem Party would be set next 40 years!!

As far as votes . . . favorable opinion ---

And Obama would be relected --

[icee]

492. Two terms.

[Lorien]

517. Yep. Anyone who even suggests messing with the NHS hasn't got a shot in GB

The same would be true here too if were were given a similar plan.

[CrispyQ]

630. Absolutely!

Until SCOTUS gives corporations the right to vote. One vote per share of stock.

There was a time I would have laughed at that idea, but with the Roberts court, nothing would surprise me.

[Lorien]

519. Hey, Tony Blair was willing to sell his soul, reputation, and plenty of British lives

for a seat at the Carlyle Group table.

[icee]

521. Good point, ma'am. I never did care for Blair. Or his wife, Wendy, or

whatever her name was.

[whathehell]

627. Her name is Cherie, Sir, and I like her more than Tony.

[defendandprotect]

525. Thanks for the reminder ...

Had rather positive feelings about Blair when he first came in --

Wow!

The elites are simply proving over and again that they can find a "Judas" or

a "snake that bites" in any color, any size any shape -- AA or female!!

[defendandprotect]

533. Obama -- and his administration -- are corporatists . . .

Corporatism is fascism . . .

do you feel the sting of the fascism in that little notice he threw out at

us -- telling us we are powerless among the all-might corporations?

"Nothing you can do about it, folks!"

:scared:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

3. "too disruptive to the system". Yeah I know. That would be too much like.... what's

that word? Oh right CHANGE! what a bunch of bullshit.

[Mithreal]

174. +1

[RainDog]

4. he can win on votes from centrists, then

because after his attitude toward liberals, I have no desire to vote for this man.

what a waste of opportunity.

[boston bean]

7. You notice, Obama, who we have been told can't control Congress, has just admitted that

it was he who rejected the provisions, and he who decided they were to disruptive to the "system".....

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

51. You bet. n/t

[Marr]

55. An excellent point. Slipped right by me.

He admitted that was all just theater.

[uppityperson]

107. Incomplete quote in your OP from Fox news. Here is the rest of his reply

But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

113. And that changes his demeaning of the left --

and our ideas how?

[uppityperson]

115. Taking things out of context is wrong and manipulative.

OBAMA: — the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.

[boston bean]

123. I took nothing out of context. He was demeaning left ideas in defense of this bill.

He is using liberals to say, "hey all you assholes thinking I'm some sort of commie, I rejected the lefts ideas".

And what do we get, a bill that on a usual day any republican would be proud of.

[uppityperson]

126. Incomplete quote out of context indeed. And hidden source.

Yes, be upset with Pres Obama if you wish, but yes, you did pull one sentence out of context. You did not give his complete answer. You hid the source.

[boston bean]

132. I did not. What source, where he did the interview. Obama did the interview with FOX. Jessum

chrissum.

The quote is complete in how he meant it and how he used it.

It is disparaging lefty ideas as disruptive and he is using lefties as a defense from others calling him a commie.

[uppityperson]

137. Here is the complete quote vs what you say is "complete:

Complete quote:
OBAMA: — the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent.

Your quote:
Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system.

Notice the difference? If you are going to be upset about something someone says, if you are going to stir up others, at least be honest about what he said.

[boston bean]

141. Excuse me uppity, but he is disparaging lefty ideas as disruptive.

he admits himself to rejecting them.

You can nit pick all you like. I stand by my criticism.

It is a true reflection of his words, even given the extra sentences you would have liked me to have supplied.

[Lautremont]

146. You have no argument to make.

There is no difference and the source of the quote was not hidden.

[Bluebear]

667. +1

[frylock]

183. the "one-sixth of the economy" is a right-wing talking point

[Tansy_Gold]

275. Not only that --

The bill SUPPORTS and ENLARGES that portion of the economy by putting more cash into the insurance companies. THEREFORE, his "fix" not only does not fix anything; it makes what's already bad even worse.



TG

[frylock]

308. it's too big to fail..

so let's make it even BIGGER.

[EFerrari]

133. The source is linked in the OP. How is that hiding anything?

[rcrush]

246. Seriously. The sentence is not out of context.

Its basically the same damn thing. It even enforces his point. The link to FOX NEWS is right there in the post? What the hell are you talking about?

[jeff47]

345. Think

Your "context" doesn't change anything about the quote in the OP.

He played the favorite game of the moderates, punch the DFHs.

[Lorien]

145. So he personally rejects "Change" that would be "disruptive to the system"

while saying that "WE" can't perpetuate the very system that he doesn't want to disrupt? Okay then.

[boston bean]

148. There's always that little doo hickey too..... LOL

[uppityperson]

163. Nope. "it would be too disruptive to the system."

Again, look at the complete quote. "it would be too disruptive to the system" vs "disruptive to the system".

I am upset about this whole health care thing. It has not gone as I want it to. If I were queen of the universe, there would have been a whole lot more changes in the whole system. However, my gripe here is be upset about what is said, not partial quotes. There is a big difference between "too disruptive to the system" and "disruptive to the system".

He rejects being "too disruptive to the system" while also saying "But what we can't do is perpetuate a system". I see this as saying he doesn't want to disrupt the system TOO much, but also doesn't want to perpetuate, continue the system as it is. Now, if you want to discuss how much is "too much", I would be happy to say that my definition of "too much" is very different than Pres Obama's.


Complete quote:
"the only thing I want to say, just to close up, is that when you talk about one-sixth of the economy, this is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system. But what we can't do is perpetuate a system in which millions of people day in and day out are having an enormously tough time and small businesses are sending me letters constantly saying that they are seeing their premiums increase 40, 50 percent."

[boston bean]

166. Why didn't Obama say I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions from my own Party??? nt

you are missing the point of this thread.

[uppityperson]

167. Obama is centrist. NOT left. I understand your point. You miss mine.

Why put "nt" in subject line when you obviously have test in message body?

[boston bean]

170. I thought i was done, and then I wasn't. so sorry.

Do you think it was an attempt to mislead you??

[uppityperson]

173. No, just sloppy writing technique. Obama is centrist.NOT left.I understand your point.You miss mine.

[boston bean]

178. I don't miss your point. I 100% totally disagree. And I do think you were trying to disparage me

because i linked to Fox. Which is below you, I would think. Seeing Obama did the interview with FOX.

[uppityperson]

191. You seriously believe you gave a full quote? You seriously believe

"Obama, March 17, 2010" = "http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589589,00.html"

You 100% disagree with me about that? Huh. Well, guess we're done here then.

Too bad you can't tell the difference because then we might be able to get into a discussion of whether or not Pres. Obama is a centrist and listens to only centrists rather than we lefties. Too bad.

[boston bean]

192. YES! nt

I fairly represented what he meant with the quote I used. I changed no words. I did not change the meaning of his words.

[defendandprotect]

501. Yes!! All that was necessary to be understood has been said -- we get it!!!

[defendandprotect]

500. Obama is a corporatist, which puts him on the right . . .the far, far, far right . . .

[immoderate]

279. A good reading lesson, and maybe an insight into Obama.

As you point out, if you parse the words carefully, it is the fix that must be carried out in a centrist way, but it is not the solution. He is acknowledging the politics but asserting that more needs to be done to have a sustainable health system.

The truncated quote is not the same.

--imm

[mdmc]

327. neo-cons still running the dea and the drug war

too disruptive to the system..

[Tansy_Gold]

342. It really doesn't make any difference. The current bill isn't disruptive at all.

Obama parses the response with the nebulous "too," but in fact and in meaning, it's one and the same. Any disruption of the existing system is too much, at least from the perspective of those who would be most negatively affected by any such disruption.

On the other side of the equation -- forgive me if I call it the left side of the equation -- there can hardly be too much disruption.

So it is clear that Obama is siding with the right (not even the center) against the left, but he does so in an interview on FUX that allows his diehard supporters to continue to justify their support.



Tansy Gold

[mrdmk]

436. The full quote not only throws 80% of the U.S. population under the bus

It is also full of double talk IMHO.

[defendandprotect]

503. Agree . . . it's a right wing program, a right wing decision, and right wing comments ...

[John Q. Citizen]

214. 'Too disruptive' = Takes away insurance company power of life and death.

Wouldn't want to mess with that, nope.

[uppityperson]

241. Yup. Gotta keep the power to make Decisions in the Right Hands.

After all, who knows better than money makers how to do Proper Health Care.

[Ignis]

110. Oopsie!

:rofl:

[Mithreal]

176. +1 Interesting, is it not.

[mdmc]

302. yup

[defendandprotect]

526. These comments tonight are very revealing . . . and it's not a pretty picture!!

Keep in mind . . . war isn't "too disruptive" --

Bankrupting the Treasury isn't "too disruptive" --

Employment at 19% isn't "too disruptive" --

I would think I was describing a flake if I didn't know that this is an educated

man who has more likely sold his soul!

[Tailormyst]

13. Yup- me too.

let the CENTRISTS go fucking knock on doors and man the phones. I know I will not make THAT mistake again.

[Mari333]

21. me three. nt

[ShortnFiery]

42. Yes, no amount of cajoling and/or intimidation will convince me to vote for Obama again.

My husband talked me into voting for Clinton instead of Nader in 1996 and I needed no convincing to vote for the Democratic Presidential Candidate in 2000, 2004 and 2008. However, if Obama is the Democratic Nominee, I'll write in Nader or Kucinich with NO regrets.

My party has left me by going to the hard-corps corporate right.

"Centrist" my ass! The USA is a full blown CORPORATE right-wing duopoly.

[glitch]

205. "Centrist" my ass! The USA is a full blown CORPORATE right-wing duopoly.

Bears repeating.

[Individualist]

301. Hear, hear!

Centrist is a label DLC/NDC hides behind.

[defendandprotect]

504. Absolutely . . . and corporatism is fascism . . .

[d_b]

250. PoW!

[readmoreoften]

430. +1. Even my 70 year old parents are done with him. They were VERY involved with local party:

fundraisers, local councils, the whole nine yard. They're no longer even donating to the Democratic Party as of this year.

[Bluebear]

479. They must be Sarah Palin lovers!!!!11

:silly:

[defendandprotect]

506. Howard Dean tonight on Rachel called this a 'ROMNEY-LIKE PLAN' . . .

So does that make Obama a Romney lover?

Dean also comments it's NOT "health care reform" and of course it is not --

it is health care disruption, made even more disruptive!!

[zipplewrath]

6. This is being called "compromise" around here

I keep getting told that the progressives won't recognize that he "compromised" with us. I keep trying to explain, it wasn't compromise, it was a rejection.

Obama has personally admitted that this is basically a 15 year old GOP/Dole/Baker bill, but I keep getting told it is some sort of "progressive issue being addressed".

Obama calls it "rejecting the provisions" and yet I'm told around here that we weren't rejected.

Rahm calls us "retarded", but supposedly the White House "tried to meet us halfway".

Let me be clear. The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is dead. We are being rejected and we are without representation within the party. They use us as a fund raising instrument only. The DCCC/DSCC tries to keep us out of primaries. The party doesn't want us and is clearly "rejecting" us.

[Mithreal]

281. We're not dead, but other than that +1. Join DFA.

Reject the DCCC/DSCC/OFA/DLC, it's easy.

[defendandprotect]

527. The liberal/progressive population is NOT dead, except within the Dem Party!!!

And we had damned well start getting together and getting our brains working ---

and move in a bloc --

I never give funds, except to someone I'm very sure of --

Obama got $25 bucks from me!!

We gave thousands to Howard Dean!

[whathehell]

9. Is he still looking for an "attaboy" from the Right?...

He is SO anxious for acceptance from the Repukes, I wonder why he didn't just run "under their flag" so to speak.

He looks pathetic, frankly, not to mention disloyal to his base, whom he seems intent on demoralizing....Disgusting.

[femrap]

12. Corporations rule this

country...and the prez dances to their tune.

[havocmom]

19. Corporations do not rule this country

they rule ALL countries. And they us our own national patriotism as diversion and cover while they have none at all.

Borders mean nothing to them. That is why they pay pols to dispense with them via legal means which supersede national laws.

People? People are just another raw natural resource, or slag to be tossed on a heap when they are in the way of mining for money.

[newspeak]

59. yeah, it's the New World Order

When corporations become behemoth monsters, they actually strip away the will of the people-democracies. When they become so big, that governments cannot contain them-it appears that there will be no use for government. Years back our government was going after, I believe, GE for anti-trust suit. The government could not handle the monetary expenditure for the suit. So, when corporations override all governments, hence, controlling all people, what's it called?

[CrispyQ]

407. This is the most spot on post I've read today.

Until the People wake up to this fact, nothing will change. I'm not sure it will change if they do wake up! The corporations are globally entrenched in everything humans need. They are a monster whose head you cannot cut off, cuz another head pops out or it morphs into a monster of a different name & type.

[defendandprotect]

529. Remember "there's no honesty among thieves" . . . eventually, they are each the

enemy of the other --

They are organized -- we aren't --

Whatever we do we have to do as a bloc --

ALL liberals and progressives together --

[havocmom]

534. Past 12 years, I have been saying the coming wars will be between corporations

There are no nations, really

[defendandprotect]

540. Interesting . . .

Meanwhile, they've knocked off quite a few of their own in this last go-around . . .

Usually -- if can be said even loosely -- perhaps those who weren't as evil?


As they say . . . "Capitalism isn't about competition, it's about killing the competition"!!

[LarryNM]

591. Nations Spy on Nations, Corporations Spy on Corporations

Nations help their Corporations. An interesting article I read on this some 15 or so years ago, wish I could remember the source, some sort of intelligence employees quarterly (CSIS?). The gist seemed to be that this was nothing new, just more and high tech. Unorganized crime = Somalia, Organized Crime = Al Capone Chicago Gangs and "legit" government.

[havocmom]

635. What's new is that corporations more openly control the pols who make laws

and the corporations that are the highest bidders get the laws they want, which not only affects people, but other corporations. The wars are between the corporations for who can get the most laws they want so they can:

get the most $
get control over the most resources
get control over avenues of commence
get control over the resource of labor

It ain't about spying anymore. It's war and we are the terrain that it is taking place on. WE are the battlefield AND the cannon fodder.

[defendandprotect]

653. Agree ... and need to MOBILIZE the left and progressives and keep fighting: two ways here . . .

http://www.singlepayer.org /

http://www.freespeech.org /

Upper left: Petition


I completely agree with you that the aggressivesness/arrogance of TPB/corporations

is substantially increasing and will continue to compound.

But, that's what capitalism is basically about -- exploitation of everything !!


Capitalism is a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move the wealth and

natural resources of a nation from the many to the few --

Capitalism isn't about competition, it's about killing the competition --

Patriarchy/Capitalism are suicidal systems based on exploitation of nature, natural

resources, animal-life -- and even other human beings according to various myths of

"inferiority."

See: Manifest Destiny and Man's Dominion Over Nature





:)

[whathehell]

394. Such a sucky, sad disappointment...

Let's not get fooled again.

[harun]

26. Only way he gets that from the right is if he resigns, so he should stop trying.

[whathehell]

395. Exactly....

One WOULD think he would have learned that by now.:eyes:

[Ignis]

357. Or Reagan to rise from the grave and say, "I like this guy!"

[These Eyes]

391. Was this the only picture of Reagan you could find…

or did you choose it for the symbolism of the lawn jockey in the background?

[Ignis]

402. Oh, our media is awash in pictures of Saint Ronnie.

As you can see from the picture, he was quite a supporter of the civil rights movement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/opinion/19krugman.html?_r=1

[These Eyes]

537. So, exactly what is the message you are sending?

[Ignis]

643. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Don't be coy: If you're trying to accuse me of racism--misguided though you may be--just come out and say so.

Or you could read the Krugman article to which I provided a link. :shrug:

[whathehell]

401. Yup.......He just can't seem to get that right. n/t

[joeybee12]

10. Keep on digging that hole, Obama...

...I love how all the progressives in Congress just rolled over for him. They'll get an interesting lesson come November.

[Tailormyst]

11. Well at least he is honest this time

His view of the left showed through bright and clear. He is going to regret this come election time.

[defendandprotect]

530. Well, Obama is being honest about ignoring the left/progressives .. .

but I think "too distruptive" actually relates to not being able to cross

the corporates he made private deals with long ago --

deals he may be happily keeping!?

Face it, elites have leverage over Obama --

The public doesn't --

[lwcon]

15. Need a new shirt?

http://2l4o.blogspot.com/

[nc4bo]

16. I want one of those. Scratch that......I NEED one of those. nt

[Mari333]

23. whoaaa!!

[jonnyblitz]

32. I want a t-shirt with "warmonger" on it like what you had posted

in your sigline that they made you delete that time.

[lukasahero]

40. I'll be getting one of those for myself

and half of my friends. :thumbsup:

[avaistheone1]

95. I would look good in one of those.

[Lorien]

164. That's me alright

and I sure wish that it weren't the case.

[Pooka Fey]

623. Very cool.

[Cal Carpenter]

17. "...too disruptive to the system..."

Indeed. The system. How about how disruptive it is for PEOPLE when their medical bills put them in bankruptcy, or when they have to suffer in sickness in pain because they can't afford co-pays? That's not going to change for very many PEOPLE. This 'system' is theoretically supposed to work for PEOPLE - if it's not working, then disrupt the hell out of it!!

And right here on DU yesterday someone referred to this bill in a positive light as the 'death of the status quo'...when asked to elaborate? Crickets.

This is a sad, sad excuse for 'reform'.

:(

[kenny blankenship]

45. A system that is killing us, choking on its own waste, and bankrupting the country

yeah wouldn't want to disrupt anything like that.

[defendandprotect]

541. Dems have kept the wars going three years . . . not so different from this game-playing!!

[3324SS]

18. Obama is proving

that it does not matter who is in Congress.

As if Progressives were even given a chance to Compromise in the first place.

The Dem Position should have been Universal HC going in.

A Final Compromise would at least have Gov Price Controls of some kind or at least a Medicare Buy In.

Liberals and Progressives were ignored from the start.

[Mithreal]

179. sacrificed to his image, not ignored, but I guess that works too

[Lorien]

321. Single Payer advocates weren't even allowed a seat at the table

that says it all.

[liberation]

364. It was worst than that: some single payer advocates were arrested...

... and that included people with MDs and RNs.

That is why I never accepted this piece of shit bill being shoveled down our throats: Because if they are willing to arrest those in favor of single payer options how, how on earth do they expect me to believe they will "consider" single payer later on when not only it will be harder, but the pols wont have an incentive to do so. I found the arguments used by the "pass the bill or else" crowd in this site to be not only intellectually dishonest, but down right insulting.


It is time for "retarded" progressives to leave Mr. Obama and his merry DLC to their own devices. It is clear they are hostile to us, I have no clue why they feel entitled to our votes though. But it takes two to tango, so progressives need to move on and stop trying to gain the validation of moderate conservatives like this Obama administration.

[Lorien]

381. Excellent point. It's like to see anyone who has been pushing the current HCR

to address everything in your post.

[readmoreoften]

433. Welcome!

:hi:

[Mari333]

20. well, the left is, after all, 'fucking retards' according to his advisor

and corporations do run the show.

[havocmom]

22. Evidently, it has been pretty well illustrated that his advisor's boss feels the same about us

[lwcon]

24. It's not just his advisor

[Mithreal]

181. +1

[Lorien]

397. Yep. How quickly it's all forgotten. nt

[Mithreal]

180. He just told EVERYONE, liberals cannot be allowed to govern.

[defendandprotect]

542. That, too -- though Rahm was a bit nastier . . . "F'ing retarded"???!!!

[ipaint]

25. Wouldn't want to disrupt a system that enriches the top 1% and kills

tens of thousands of americans a year. Nope. Can't have that in this orwellian conservative is the new liberal progressive world. And being informed means you have mastered the finer points of the tested and approved corporate propaganda talking points.

After 30 years of deregulation and the corporate takeover of the media the population is perfectly primed to swallow whole anything the thoroughly bought off government tells them to.

Questions are not allowed. "Lefties" must be marginalized.

I'll give it to the corporate giants on this one. Their pick of president was brilliant and the pr machine during the campaign was the best ever. They literally have manipulation of the masses down to a science. Lots of practice makes perfect.

for profit health ins. = health care

war = peace

increasing private armies = withdrawal

charter schools and vouchers = public education

busting unions = supporting workers

massive financial fraud on a scale that unimaginable = oops!

taxpayer bailouts of top 1% time and time again = democracy

[Mithreal]

184. ++good

[inna]

585. "They literally have manipulation of the masses down to a science."

Amazing, isn't it. I mean, most people actually believed they were voting for "Hope" and "Change".

[derby378]

27. Was the public option on that list, President Obama??

:grr:

[boston bean]

37. That was one of my first thoughts too. nt

[Mithreal]

186. Insurance industrial complex list/centrist hitlist? Absolutely.

[defendandprotect]

535. This is the same guy who has been calling insurance companies "evil" -- !!!

[NCarolinawoman]

28. I wonder if he would have said that out loud if Teddy were alive?

Ted Kennedy, the LIBERAL LION of the senate, who had such "faith" in him.
x(

[Tansy_Gold]

29. I almost think that alone angers me more than the rest

How obama could essentially lie in Teddy's face, and now dance on his grave.

liar. liar. liar.




Tansy Gold

[lukasahero]

41. This post makes me cry

:cry:

[EFerrari]

44. And when he signs the bill, he'll invoke Teddy. What a farce. n/t

[kath]

539. Oh, jeebus, is THAT ever going to be hard to take!

:puke:

[Mithreal]

187. .

:applause:

[boston bean]

195. I like your pin in your sig. could also read Healthcare is a Right for the Privileged.

that would be more representative of how things are today....

[Mithreal]

221. indeed

[old mark]

30. The Left has ALWAYS been the Democratic Party's "extreme" position.

they trot us out when they want to make political points with the "average voters" - as in "we COULD have gone with THIS "RADICAL" policy, but we settled on THIS lukewarm dishwater that solves little and pleases no one instead so we can get along with the moderate republicans and the chickenshit conservative "Democrats".

Can't offend the Catholic Church, can't offend the Moderate GOP, can't offend the undecided voters, but always ready to fuck the Democratic Left...but you guys keep on doin' such a great job, and vote for US!!! because we really need you ....till we don't.
Been like this since the '60's that I am personally aware of, I doubt it will change now.

mark

[EFerrari]

61. The difference is in the 60s the Left was still on the left.

lol

[old mark]

138. Yeah - even the Left moved to the right since the '70's......nt

[coti]

109. Isn't it hilarious? Think about it- he's actually saying, "You know, we could have

given you the OPTION of buying into a government health insurance plan, but since you don't describe yourself as a liberal we know that you're not interested in having those choices."

It's just such a radical idea, you know? One that the polls show over 60% support for, and seems totally a matter of common sense. But, it's not corporatism, so it's radical.

[defendandprotect]

546. Let's be honest. . . if they gave the public an honest choice between capitalism and socialism ....

right now, they know which way it would go --

Capitalism would be down the ole sink hole!!

That's what Obama is protecting against --

You do see the mood even on DU . . . right?

And -- Catholics also support a government run health care plan au contraire to

the lies of the US Catholic Bishops!! And, they want reproductive care, as well --

including contraception and abortion.

So if any truth be told, the right wing is dead!

They're mummifying it, however, and telling us to shove off!!!

[defendandprotect]

545. Wait . . . you're saying liberals/progressives are MORE left than FDR/New Deal?

Hardly -- !!!

Remember, the New Deal programs -- Social Security was to include a universal

health care system!

FDR didn't get to it -- Truman tried and failed --

However, certainly all of the New Deal has been reversed --

and we've been returned to corporatism . . . which is fascism.

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime!

[Lorien]

562. During the 1970's being on the "Left" meant being Mainstream

The Democratic party had clear positions on the issues then; pro-civil rights, environment, union, education, choice, social justice, gun control, and anti war, death penalty, corporate power, authoritarianism, etc. Now the party stands for little more than quietly preserving the status quo. Things really HAVE changed; they've shifted dramatically to the Right.

[harun]

31. Way to be an advocate Obama.

:sarcasm:

[Lex]

33. And what did he get in return for trashing the left: NOTHING.

nt

[lukasahero]

43. Exactly!

And yet, the trashing continues, the play to the right continues even when it's freakin' obvious they will not compromise. So discouraging.

[Romulox]

53. Not true. He pushed "the center" even further right (which is what he wanted to do.) nt

[Lex]

57. Good point

but it became apparent to everyone, except him possibly(?), that the Republicans were NEVER going to come to the table and support ANYTHING.

[readmoreoften]

417. The center is now straight up 1980s Republican.

It's really a vote between Republicans and proto-Fascist elements. Not only is there no left in this country, there isn't much of a center remaining either.

[Mithreal]

188. Security. Cash. Campaigns don't pay for themselves.

[defendandprotect]

547. Obama fulfilled the promise he made to the corporates . . .

the "for profit" health care corporations --

and Obama promised there would be NO GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE PROGRAM!!!

Obviously, they have leverage over Obama -- we don't!

[Solly Mack]

34. so.... centrist = sensible and left = destructive?

O.K. then

[boston bean]

35. Sorry Solly, but Bret Baier did the interview and it is a transcript, not an article. nt

[Solly Mack]

36. S'OK. Thanks! I didn't watch is all. I never watch Fox.

I did read the transcript.

Thank you again!!

[Mithreal]

189. +1

[sea four]

38. The Democrats have to be right wing

to get lots of corporate campaign contributions. Billionaires don't like "class warfare" or "far-left" people like Sanders and Kucinich. Moderate Dems are good for business...

[defendandprotect]

549. And Rahm is in the White House making sure Obama doesn't stray . . .

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. He ran as a centrist and is governing as a centrist

[EFerrari]

46. He could remain a centrist, whatever that means, and still not trash the left

as a way to appease the right, or more likely, as a wink to his corporate donors.

[Mari333]

49. the left is Persona Non Grata, it seems

[EFerrari]

56. What does that tell you? It tells me that corporati want even MORE

impunity than they have now because the only push back they get is from the left. So, marginalize the left and that takes care of that.

[Mari333]

60. we are invisible to these people

to their own doom, actually. it was once their base.

[EFerrari]

62. Yup. They're finessing themselves out of a job. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

347. Finessing? Or, triangulating? But, they're building up a handy scapegoat for their failures.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. And that's why I voted Uncommitted in my Minnesota caucus in 2008

:-(

I couldn't stand either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, because it was so obvious that they were the two candidates agreed upon by the corporate media.

In early 2007, the corporate media were already acting as if they were the only Dem contenders.

That told me that I could never support either one with any enthusiasm.

I did vote for Obama with great reluctance. But seeing what we got, I wish I had voted third party.

[emmadoggy]

368. Ditto!

I felt EXACTLY the same way. Except I didn't vote Uncommitted. Wish I had.

I hated the way they were shoved down our throats and I hated the way everyone seemed to get so swept up in all the hype that they didn't focus on what was underneath it all. I always felt that Obama was way too conciliatory with the R's, and none of his proposals really impressed me. They were mostly only slight deviations from the status quo - not a whole lot of "change" as far as I could see. I thought his health care proposal was one of the weakest of the bunch.

I also voted for him with much reluctance and "hope" that he would turn out better than I was expecting. Those hopes have been dashed.

[newspeak]

54. Centrist, my arse!

Corporatist is more likely. I guess Medicare and Social Security are ideals from the extreme left. Now days, anything that doesn't support big business-but actually helps the people is extreme left. Those wild, wacky lefties-I tell you, what would this country be like without them? The majority of the populace wanted a strong PO--I guess Obama must be placating all those wacky lefties--NOT!!!!

[Mithreal]

282. +1

[Bluenorthwest]

64. He ran as a man who claimed he could change the way

politics was done. He ran on 'we are going to change this country, and change the world'. He ran on 'WE are the ones we have been waiting for'. He ran not just opposed to mandates, but utterly mocking them as larcenous and unneeded.
Show a link, please, to him on the trail saying "I am a centrist and will govern as a centrist."
Change. He ran on change. Change you can believe in.
Not sure what campaign you were listening to. McCain's maybe? That tax in the 'reform' was his idea, one that Obama claimed to oppose. Until he won.

[Marr]

71. Oops

Mis-post. Sorry. :)

[Toasterlad]

66. That Centrist Campaigned On the Public Option.

Not to mention a whole host of other things he promised that he had no intention of delivering.

He's a lying corporate hack.

[EFerrari]

81. Did Bill Clinton openly mock the left this way?

[QC]

127. No. n/t

[xultar]

157. But the left openly hates Bill and Hillary. I fucking laugh @ that.

[Mithreal]

222. +1

[readmoreoften]

415. I knew Obama would be to the right of the Clintons. Which is scary in itself.

Fierce advocate of the plutocrats. But we knew this with the Holder appointment, didn't we El Ferrari? :)

[EFerrari]

455. Chiquita's lawyer. Oh, man.

I know, it's only a four year term.

[coti]

82. No, he absolutely did not run as a centrist, or as a "corporatist," which is a much more apt

descriptor.

He ran as a moderate liberal. He ran on seemingly countless promises that he has now reneged on, many of them involving healthcare reform, including the public option, drug reimportation, no individual mandates, repeal of the anti-trust exemption, and no Cadillac tax. Yes, he ran on ALL of those populist issues, those good ideas, and was elected because he did. Then he threw them all out and left us with just about the crappiest healthcare "reform" one could imagine.

[joeybee12]

89. Just like he ran as a fierce advocate and is governing as...well...

oh, never mind.

[Bluebear]

97. Yeah, the fierce advocate centrist who favored the public option. Whatever.

[Lorien]

151. And a single payer system. nt

[laughingliberal]

121. He ran on a center left vision of health care reform. He is governing from center right. nt

[readmoreoften]

429. He's actually governing from the straight-up right with some center and center-left rhetoric.

Busting teachers' unions and bailing out insurers, banks, and businesses is a solid right-wing position.

[Mithreal]

193. Except if you listen to scientists, you know, SCIENCE IS BACK

like Lakoff, there is no such thing as centrist, but I know, folks ignore all kinds of things they don't agree with.

And fuck that, says the centrist. Please go back to using your BIG BLUE DOG. It's more honest.

[glitch]

209. No - he ran as a Centrist and is governing as a SOLID Rightist.

Corporatism is not the center.

[readmoreoften]

507. Oh, using references to the Pullman Strike and Cesar Chavez is running as a centrist, huh?

If he ran as a centrist, he'd never've won.

Center of what? Monsanto and Blackwater?

[defendandprotect]

550. Obama is a corporatist . . . which means he's on the right . .. so is this HC "reform" ...

In fact, Howard Dean tonight made clear this is NOT health care reform ---

and pegged it to a "Romeny-type-plan" . . . that would be on the RIGHT . . .


A GOP TYPE HEALTH CARE PLAN . . . ON THE RIGHT!!

[GreenArrow]

50. We're the liverwurst

caught between two slices of stale pumpernickel

[Romulox]

52. Today's Centrist = "moderate Republican" of 20 years ago.

[Mithreal]

199. Too kind, but agreed

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. He's "rejected" the left. Well, that's nice. Get back to us in November for our reply. .

[Gin]

63. but he gives a good speech

[freddie mertz]

70. I'm voting for Pigasus.

http://pigofknowledge.blogspot.com/2007/01/pigasus-and-yippies.html

[Neecy]

67. That's it.

They really think we'll just 'get in line' in 2012 and vote for him again. Not a chance. Not a goddamn chance. This is the final insult.

[Ganja Ninja]

194. "Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist."

Nice backhand huh? I don't know about you but I never get tired of being insulted by people that expect me to show up and vote for them. Good luck in 2012 "centrists".

[L0oniX]

68. Clue: The system IS disrupted.

[Mithreal]

201. And Obama is Chief Disruptor. What a transformative guy.

[freddie mertz]

69. K & R. Interesting to note who we have not heard from in this thread.

Cause this directly contradicts a lot of arguments we have seen around here over the past too many months.

[Marr]

72. You know, there's a word for rejecting ideas deemed 'disruptive to the system'.

It's "conservative".

Who knew the Change© he was selling had to fit squarely into the current system?

[Mithreal]

202. +1

[AzDar]

73. I'm finished with the man.

:puke:

[amborin]

74. pure contempt!

[PufPuf23]

75. Disappointing and cold

There was a serious disconnect beginning with cabinet and staff appointments.

[EFerrari]

76. Ugly, too, coming on the same day that he got Dennis to sign on.

I"m sorry. That's just rude.

[G_j]

90. back stabbing

usually reserved for the left and minorities.

[Bluebear]

100. "I have rejected" -- of course, when it comes to DADT, he "can't control Congress". Whatever,"O-man"

[EFerrari]

111. How do I keep supporting a president that doesn't support me.

[Lorien]

155. Good question

I can't find many reasons to anymore, so I'm looking for a third party alternative (yeah, I know; good luck with that)!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

390. If enough people do the same, who knows what might happen?

:shrug:

[WinkyDink]

511. Obama will discover the true meaning and result of his own words.

[defendandprotect]

552. Whatever we do, we have to do it as a BLOC ---

[suffragette]

370. Very good question, indeed.

[Ignis]

112. Oh, but that's DIFFERENT!

How, exactly, I'm not sure--but it's all part of the Grand Strategy!

Now watch this drive.

[Cherchez la Femme]

315. Does that sound like an Emporer's proclamatiion?

Or is it just me?

[Bluebear]

398. "We are not amused."

[Cherchez la Femme]

414. LOL The Empress Victoria

aka Mrs. Brown :)

[Bluebear]

543. zactlickly!

lol

[defendandprotect]

551. Yep. . . I'd like to hear Dennis' comments on this Obama arrogance . . .!!

[Individualist]

77. K&R

[PurityOfEssence]

78. Love me, love me, love me

I'm really on your side. Really.

[Lorien]

149. and I promise never to hit you again. nt

[dkf]

79. He left out what a solid majority wanted too.

Funny how he leaves that out.

[Mithreal]

204. +1 We don't have majority rule. Who cares what the pawns want anyway?

[defendandprotect]

554. Also would like to see the UNION's comments on this --

[branders seine]

80. the entire DC political apparatus is conservative and pro-corporate.

The parties hate "liberals" equally.

[defendandprotect]

555. The power shifted but only because of political violence ....

that's something we have to face --

[coti]

83. So he admits it wasn't the Senate. Good- that's progress, at least. nt

[Mithreal]

207. He's taking his bows and backslaps. Can't wait for the encore.

www.whipcongress.com

The people whipped the vote and exposed the Senate.

[JVS]

84. Duh! Way to get the most out of your triangulation though.

[frustrated_lefty]

85. what's wrong with disrupting a broken system????

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

94. Now the President tells the "Left" that our ideas are and aren't sensible

Lovely.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

101. I think you are replying to my deleted message --

Funny, I could tell Bush to "f**k off" when he was screwing us over back in the day. :eyes:

[Bluebear]

102. That was different. Of course.

We're supposed to bend over and take this.

[Individualist]

104. but it's all good when a New Democrat does it.

:eyes:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

124. Iiked his quote so much --

I made it my sig line. I want everyone here to remember this.

[Bluebear]

162. Grand idea.

[Moochy]

486. its a damned grand idea!

[defendandprotect]

556. Great idea . . . . and Unions and Women should pay special attention ...!!!

[G_j]

88. while adopting Republican ideas

that's the ticket!

[Bluebear]

92. Arrogant.

[JVS]

96. Have a fun retirement in 2013

[ProSense]

98. He rejected the Stupak amendment too.

He accepted Bernie Sander's state single payer provision.

So on balance, the bill is better.

[Hello_Kitty]

154. Big fucking whoop.

So we have Nelson's panty sniffing language instead of Stupak's.

Really, ProSense, of all things you have to go and bring up Stupak. You and your ilk have spent so much time bashing dirty hippies on the internet (who have no vote in Congress) and so little going after the forced birthers and the Blue Dogs it is sickening. Remarkable that you show up in an OP quoting Obama dissing the Left with this. :puke:

[Lorien]

177. Hello_Kitty, have I told you recently that

:yourock: ?

[ProSense]

464. It is a "Big fucking whoop."

Pretty sure if that was still in the bill, it would be.

[frylock]

105. this seals the deal for me. i will not vote for this man again..

fucking arrogant asshole. good luck getting the centrists to do the heavy lifting during the campaign.

[optimator]

106. this disproves my theory that Obama was a political coward

he is actively an enemy of the left now and never had any intention of "change."

[readmoreoften]

505. He's a charlatan who used leftist history ("si se puede", etc) against the left.

I literally can't stand the guy anymore and I completely hate the fact that I went against my better judgement and voted for him.

[piratefish08]

108. Welcome to the underside of the bus...........

get comfortable.

[Betty]

116. At least he's being honest about who he works for.

and even though he's saying in no uncertain terms that he works for The System, the repigs will NEVER accept him as one of their own.

[Mithreal]

211. +1

[liberation]

376. I would have appreciated this level of honesty and candor before wasting my time campaigning for him

in 08 though.

All that time I wasted phone banking, money sent, and registering people to vote for Mr. Obama. When I could have been at home making sweet sweet love to my better half.

Oh, well. I am not going to claim I was naive enough to pretend a moderate jackass who was so short on specifics during the campaign was going to implement many liberal policies. I was not expecting to be shown plain hostility as a "thank you" though.

Lesson learned, the whole "lesser of two evils" black mail bullshit does not work with me anymore. I will vote progressives from now on, if the Dem party feels like shifting to the right, good for them. I assume the Green Party at this point need all the help they can get to establish a viable 3rd party alternative which actually supports my ideals and interests. What a concept: voting for those who are interested in representing you, rather than voting for those who feel entitle to my vote and have nothing but contempt for my ideology in return.

Bye bye, hope all those corporate campaign donations in 2012 are worth it.

[defendandprotect]

558. Yes -- though that seems to have been clear from the first days of his elopement

into the White House with Rahm/DLC --

and the rest of the corporatists --

corporatism is fascism . . .

let's not forget that!

[joeybee12]

117. Please note that it was a caluclated move to refer to us as "the left"

That conjures up a very negative image for many people...he purposely wanted to trash us.

[Mithreal]

212. +1

[defendandprotect]

560. Evidently he doesn't even consider us part of the Dem Party!!!

it's "them" and "us" . . . we're outsiders!!!

[fascisthunter]

118. My Post Would Get Deleted for Saying What's on My Mind regarding Obama

[Mithreal]

213. There are worse things than having your post deleted.

[laughingliberal]

119. Understatement. He's rejected almost everything the left wanted. nt

[DefenseLawyer]

129. Abolishing slavery was pretty disruptive to the system.

That whole "civil war" thing and what not. A shame that sensible centrists weren't there to cut a deal with the secessionists.

[G_j]

140. +100

[Lorien]

169. Zing! Exactly! Though I notice that "ignored" isn't here to defend

Obama's position. None of them are. Odd that.

[Ignis]

196. +1

[Mithreal]

215. ouch

[defendandprotect]

561. +1000% . . . . perfect comment -- K&R --

[Art_from_Ark]

594. Actually, the Civil War was only disruptive to the South

Nearly all the major battles were fought in the South. 99% of the destruction occurred in the South. The whole vengeful attitude of the post-war era, including the way in which Reconstruction was carried out, set the stage for 90-100 years of lingering hostility in the South, both toward "yankees" and toward blacks. If a deal could have been cut with the "secessionists" that would have phased out slavery (which was already repealed or on the way out in the rest of the civilized world) without bloodshed, in exchange for providing alternatives for a real Southern economy, instead of one based on one crop and slavery, then things might have been different. Maybe there wouldn't have been the long sordid history of lynchings, voter suppression, sharecropping, Jim Crow laws, etc., that survived in much of the South well into the 1960s.

[DefenseLawyer]

644. Still fighting the War of Northern Aggression I see.

There were all kinds of deals cut with the South, like the Missouri Compromise and the Compromise of 1850 which included the Fugitive Slave Act. You'd be hard pressed to show me how compromise led to a weakening of the pro-slavery position in the South. You seceded anyway and started the war. You are living in a pro-south fairy tale, but I will grant you this, there would have been much less disruption to the system if the south had been placated as you suggest.

[saracat]

130. And this is something to be "proud of"?

[Mithreal]

217. if you're a centrist

[slipslidingaway]

136. knr - wonderful :( n/t

[xultar]

147. I wanna laugh but can't help but cry. I can't believe Kennedy got fooled too.

Y'all bought the magic the campaign created. I told y'all back in the day he wasn't a progressive.

[EFerrari]

152. I knew he wasn't a progressive but I didn't think he'd diss us to Fox.

I swear, I didn't know that.

[xultar]

159. One thing you can say about Bill and Hillary, they never did that shit.

[Lord Helmet]

200. Really?

Hillary Clinton dissed party activists and MoveOn.org

http://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2009/10/hillary-clinton-foxnews-is-fair-and.html">Hillary Clinton: "Fox News is fair and balanced."

Hillary Clinton: Fox News Superstar

Rupert Murdoch Loves Hillary Clinton

Hillary Clinton Slams MSNBC and Praises Fox.

[xultar]

245. Yup. I shouldn't have put Hillary on there.

[QC]

185. I'm with you. I never thought he was a progressive.

I did think he was at least a Democrat, though.

[Mithreal]

219. Charming, smart, and pretty are deadly all rolled together in one package

[democracy1st]

153. words can't describe how I feel !

[GreenPartyVoter]

156. Some days I feel like he is a doctor who skipped over trying to heal the patient and went straight

to, "Well, we'll try to make him as comfortable as we can."

[Mithreal]

220. Thought you were going to say, "went straight for the patient's wallet."

[GreenPartyVoter]

249. Well, that too.

[Mithreal]

172. Rahm got paid, the disruptive excuse is weak.

[Ganja Ninja]

210. Well then I guess the centrists and conservatives have it all handled.

They won't need me in 2010 and 2012 so I'll just vote for some senseless 3rd party candidates or leave my ballot blank.

[sabrina 1]

216. Yet he wasn't worried about adapting Republican provisions

such as Mandated Ins. being disruptive. I guess he thought if he appeased the right they would stop throwing tantrums.

Democrats remind me of parents I have met whose children throw a fit every time they say 'no' to them. Their way of handling their tantrums is to give them what they want just to shut them up. Then they cry about how difficult their child is and wonder why.

The day we get a Democrat who is more afraid of the tantrums their base might throw, than what Republicans might do, we will win, I don't mean elections, which doesn't seem to mean anything, I mean really win.

But you see it everywhere, online, on TV coming from Dems, appeasement and defeatism, 'we can't do this and we can't do that' and it becomes a self-fulling prophecy. Republicans view democrats as easy prey, thanks to our leadership. Just throw a fit and call them names, and you can get what you want.

[glitch]

230. He's trashing his own presidency -- for whatever reason.

Maybe he's a true believer, maybe he really is captured. It doesn't matter what the cause, as far as we the people are concerned it's back to our duty as citizens.
We've waited long enough for change that isn't coming from DC. To paraphrase Howard Zinn: politicians have to compromise, citizens don't.

[dflprincess]

231. Yes, he's made it clear he doesn't need the left

just so he doesn't turn around and blame us if things don't go well this November or 2012.

[nvme]

232. Now I know What Ted Bundy's girlfriend feels

Ugh!

[suffragette]

233. Centrist, my fanny

Centrist would be including a public option (taking left as single payer and right as the corporate bill billed as reform).

The other day I was talking to my sister and a niece about this.

My sister, who is a centrist, veering from there left with me on some issues and right on others put it succinctly:
"Why can't we just have the socialist health care that works for all these other countries."

Actually, she peppered that with quite a bit of profanity and was pissed as hell when she said it.

She didn't use single payer or universal in naming it. She views single payer as socialist and her union, blue collar, pragmatic self is saying straight out that she has no issues with that and thinks it's clearly what should have been done from the start and she proceeded to make quite the argument for it (convinced the niece, who's generally apolitical but doesn't like the direction this is taking, in minutes, that this is the case. Mind you, once our niece listened to the issues with the terminology explained or stripped away, that was the policy direction she already agreed with, just as the polls have repeatedly shown.

Obama and Rahm clearly think we "left" are a small enough faction to be able to openly reject, but many real centrists out there are feeling the same rejection and are grumbling loudly in private and will likely just keep their distance in public by disengaging from voting.

[yurbud]

235. the left's ideas happened to be better, serve more people, cost less, and is more popular

good policy and representative democracy--are those extremist ideas?

[Mithreal]

244. hippy

[yurbud]

239. even my reliably lefty Senator Barbara Boxer used a line like that in FUNDRAISING letter to me...

and when I gave to governor candidate Jerry Brown, in his email reply, he talked about reaching across the aisle to work with Republicans.

If you have any doubt that a policy is corrupt, when the pols started talking about bipartisanship, that should remove all doubt.

[defendandprotect]

563. Wow . . . Barbara Boxer and Jerry Brown . . . Yikes!!!! But thanks for telling us!!

[colsohlibgal]

247. Now We Know For Sure

...that he has picked up the republican lite mantle and more from Bubba. I'm frankly terribly offended by that comment and beyond that he's dead (double meaning) wrong about it being sensible, unless he's talking to people like that Well Point CEO B word woman.

I'm done with him and I really hope he is challenged hard from the left in 2012.

[johnlal]

248. Who can we draft in the 2012 primary?

It's obvious that Obama never really wanted the Public Option or Single Payer. He needs to go.

[Richardo]

260. I guess Kucinich has lost his halo too....

Gee, what other left wing progressive is there who would sweep this country off its feet, put the electorate in a dead swoon and defeat an incumbent Democratic President? Hmmm. There must be dozens of ways to win with 30% of the vote. God knows the Tea Baggers are giving it their best shot.

It'll never happen in 10,000 million years.

[johnlal]

284. Then he can probably win comfortably

without my vote.

[Moochy]

477. And that's how you crush dissent!

Go futility!

[Moochy]

478. Self delete

[Starbucks Anarchist]

657. Thank you.

The crazy in here, it burns.

[Lorien]

325. Grayson? Weiner? I wish that Bill Moyers were younger

he'd be great!

[defendandprotect]

564. Who do we have leverage over? How do we get leverage?

Michael Moore was suggesting that we have to get a PLEDGE from the next

candidate to move and support a Constitutional amendment to knock out

corporate "personhood."

I think PLEDGES are going to be what we have to go for -- because otherwise

it's just talk.

Signed Pledges!!!


And despite whatever BS the Supremes want to supports, we have to continue to

call campaign finance what it is -- BRIBERY.

[spoony]

252. Thank you for my new sig. nt

[Mithreal]

285. +1 That is borderline if not outright subversive.

:spank:

[Name removed]

254. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

257. /ignore at long last. Talk about pathetic.

[EFerrari]

258. What utter baloney. Do you go to the enemy camp and diss your friends?

What would that make you?

[Bluebear]

259. "You people are pathetic" - of course he would.

[Richardo]

261. A politician. What's the next question.

[EFerrari]

266. Is that what we're calling it. Okay. n/t

[Moochy]

485. A Centrist

[Name removed]

263. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mithreal]

286. .

:spray: :rofl:

:patriot:

[treestar]

326. Right, he's talking politics

But some people, as you've accurately described, are just determined to be victims of some vast conspiracy.

[readmoreoften]

437. Do you think Bush would've went on Air America and apologized for the Right-Wing?

Yeah, I didn't fucking think so.

[defendandprotect]

567. Think Karl Rove ever called them "F-ing retards" . . .????

[sabrina 1]

474. I expect him to tell the truth, which he did. He gets credit for that

much at least. He took every amendment submitted by Democrats out of the bill. We knew that, so all this is, is a public admission. Meantime as he said himself, at the Health Care Summit, he didn't understand why Republicans were so upset with the bill, because 'I included many of their ideas'. Nancy pointed that out also. They sound like victims of bullies beggin them to notice that they are NOT friends with 'lefty'. And that they reall, really did say nice things about the bullies'. And as expected, the bullies just laugh.

I can't imagine Grayson, eg, or Kucinich who has also been on Fox and managed to never denegrate his own party's supporters, making a statement like that about the 'left'.

It's NOT a surprise, his COS has made it clear what this administration thinks of the people who got them elected. I agree with the commenter above, since he's so cavalier about the 'left' and their silly ideas like a fair and equitable health care system, he won't need them in the next election.

How many Fox viewers do you think will support him no matter how he sucks up to them? Not a single one is the answer, so he may as well have had the guts to stand up for the people who stood up for him. At least even some on the right could respect him.

[Puglover]

624. That's the sad irony here.

He can suck up to these people from now until forever and they'll never accept him. Whatever, the man has made it clear he doesn't need my vote.

[Lyric]

557. "Whining?" Are you insane?

This is so far beyond WHINING that it's ridiculous. Wake the hell up.

[dana_b]

595. LOL

wow - talk about delusional. WHAT right wing ideas has he rejected? He IS right wing!! Oh, you meant the bat-shit crazies who watch Fox! Alright then what left wing ideas has he adopted for health insurance reform??? I can't think of a damn one.

[Juche]

256. Is he a good politician or a terrible one?

During the 2008 election, he was an amazing politician. He knew how to make his enemies make themselves look like idiots while he got away clean. He brought tons of young people and minorities into the polls.

Now, I don't know. He is alienating unions & liberals. Who goes on fox news and criticizes the left?

[Robeson]

280. Ann Coulter?

[Bluebear]

262. Now watch this drive.

[Mithreal]

289. Watch it.

Now watch this drive!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3p9y_OEAdc

[mvd]

264. Is he talking about single payer?

That would indeed be the "disruption" this system needs, but the President never put it on the table. I'm sick of him using "the left" like we are in a different galaxy - we are in the same party.

[lumberjack_jeff]

265. We have to take our lumps. This is what "God, fate destiny and providence" intended for us. n/t

[ihavenobias]

268. K & R n/t

[d_b]

269. what a chickenshit, lame-ass fucking thing to say

Barack Obama: Defender of The System.

Yea, who remembers THAT guy from the campaign trail :wtf:





Good luck with all those centrist votes in '12.

[Political Heretic]

270. Why should I vote for this person again?

[nyc 4 Biden]

272. k&r but come on!

you have to give people a warning before they click on a fox "news" link.

[boston bean]

276. I hear ya, but Obama did the interview on Fox News.. , plus it's just a transcript. nt

[nyc 4 Biden]

273. k&r but come on!

you have to give people a warning before they click on a fox "news" link.

[Dinger]

274. We're In The Crosshairs Here

For sure.

[DirkGently]

278. Amen

Why should the left apologize, when the crisis(es)(es) we are in are the result of bad conservative / libertarian policy?

What exactly is the disconnect in this country, where we (and the entire world) are broke over two specious wars and the direct result of banking de-regulation and rich-friendly tax policy, all solid gold, conservative ideas, and yet Democrats have to spend all of their time and energy proving that they are far enough to the RIGHT?

We need to reset the "normal" button in this country.

[glitch]

631. It is a basic tenet of Friedman economics that no matter what shit they create

it wouldn't have been shit if they'd just created more of it. (not kidding)

[nightrain]

283. yep. cater to the R and demean the L

[Sheepshank]

287. Oh gawd...looking for reasons to be offended

While you may be sick of 'that' shit, I'm sick of the martyr syndrome going on here lately. So there!

Could you just once try and see the verbal game being played, instead of being so narrowly/literally focused on the literary? Obama smacking the crap out of the Reps, bopping them just one more time on the back of the head, and saying "....are you so self indulgent, so self centered that you think you are the only ones that have made a sacrifice?"

[EFerrari]

291. War is peace!

[Mithreal]

294. Weak, pathetic, spineless nonsense and excuses.

One of the better remedies is to be involved, show up, join a real grassroots organization like DFA.

Verbal games, whatever.

[pecwae]

318. The old chessmaster routine.

[Bluebear]

338. 'Obama smacking the crap out of the Reps' LOL

[QC]

356. That was a gentle love pat. n/t

[walldude]

446. LMFAO.. yeah.. it was a brilliant play.. I was just too stupid to see it.

Thank god there are people like you who are willing to wade through the martyr's and tell us how wrong we are and how well we are being treated. After all I only donated, worked, and voted for Obama, those hero's on Fox have... oh wait...

:rofl: :rofl:

Sucker.

[truedelphi]

288. By late today, DK will no longer be my avatar. Sadly, I agree with everyone who

Has stated that he is only a grand stander.

Do these people (Woolsey, Kucinich, et al) REALLY think that Obama will let them have a fix or two inside this bill at some time in the future?

Do they not remember Rahm calling us Progressives "retards?"

One ride in Air Force One and Obama has shilled his nonsense to Kooch in such a charming way that the one air plane ride will get DK's vote?

If Kooch was the deciding vote, why in the world didn't he get a concession or two. I don't care what the concession was - maybe everyone whose last name begins with "Da to De" holds the same bennies that those in the Senate do.

But the guy didn't even have the President throw him a bone. Instead, he folded for no discernible quid pro quo.

[Mithreal]

297. Would you prefer he didn't use his position and soapbox?

Obama is the new wrecking crew. I don't think DK could stand up to that. Obama has the dollars behind him to take down anyone and Kucinich was essentially hung out to dry. All Obama could do is try to reassure DK that his time would come and PO come later if at all.

Did Obama go and campaign against Stupak or Lincoln, hadn't really heard?

[truedelphi]

311. One thing that startled me, and not in a good way -

Kucinich said that the President has met with him four times (or maybe he said the President had talked to him four times)

Big whoop! The President has met with the Conservative Senators, some of them for upwards of forty six times.

We as a nation are just so screwed.

And then we have things like California's Prop 14 hanging over our heads - a proposition whose fate will rest on faulty voting machinery.

[defendandprotect]

568. Nothing honest is happening in "America" . . .

[newspeak]

490. yeah, I thought about DK's turn

I'm wondering what kind of arm twisting is going on? We know * did it--his own base-during the pharma rip off bill, there were some Republicans against it. The administration bribed, bullied and coerced to get that "screw you" shite bill passed.

[GinaMaria]

538. Whatever it was, they got to him. It had to be something

big, either a promise or a threat.

[ChiciB1]

290. Well, And So It Goes!! I Will Need To Get Back & Read This Whole

thing, just wanted to comment so I can re-visit later! Have to run out for a while.

[Prism]

292. The Sista Souljah Presidency

This man cannot distance himself from liberals fast enough.

And for what? They still call him a socialist. I'm always told that President Obama is a man of deep intelligence. Then why does he have trouble learning the simplest, most basic truth of Washington? No matter what he does, the GOP will paint him as a leftist radical. It should have taken the average person about a week to notice that. We're 14 months into his presidency, and he's still staring blankly at the political landscape.

[Mithreal]

306. I am not afraid of failure, conflict, or what Republican bullies say.

Don't know if the same can be said of Obama.

[Prism]

328. You'd think obvious human truths would be obvious

The more you fear failure, the more you guarantee it. The more you avoid conflict, the worse it will be when it comes. The more you give in to bullies, the more they will demand.

This is not hidden wisdom, and yet it's a total mystery to this President.

[Mithreal]

330. Seems so.

[lwcon]

307. Why?

Because he's happy with the outcomes he's getting.

He's a child of Reagan, and he's governing like it's Ronnie's "morning in America." Heck, Obama's logo is "morning in America.

[Prism]

324. I'm beginning to think it's psychological

He has this odd need to be liked, to be seen as a presiding presence, the guy in the middle bringing everyone together.

Which is wonderful for the Harvard Review.

But it doesn't work in an American Presidency in a time of fundamental crisis where one party has spent the last 30 years going off a right-wing cliff, tearing up the Constitution, and stomping on the middle class.

Which all of us know. But, for whatever reason, he does not. I think it's an odd form of denial.

Every time I read one of these interviews, I hear "Please, love me! Loooove meeeee!" coming from the man. Lord, what a miscalculation he has been. I cannot be sorry enough for my behavior in 2008.

[QC]

359. I regret the way I badgered the people at work to vote for him.

Now I feel like a fool, and I am getting a lot of "told you so" from the colleagues.

[Prism]

366. I was looking up old posts the other night

I came across some of the primary arguments I got into in the GLBT forum in defense of Obama.

I felt like slinking off for a month to hide my head in shame. Cringe-worthy does not begin to describe it. It was physically uncomfortable to see just how wrong wrong can be.

[juno jones]

475. Don't be too hard on yourself.

I keep going over it and he simply didn't show himself then to be what he turned out to be. I knew he was pretty centrist but I was in the game because he was against mandates, for public health options, against taxing benefits, etc.

He also was IIRC anti-torture and pro-transparency in government.

No candidate in my memory has been as duplicitous in his message.

He and the triangulating "D" party can pound sand, they will get no money,votes or time outta me now or ever again.

[defendandprotect]

569. Happened to a lot of people . . .think of what this means for unions and women . .. the LEFT!!!

[lwcon]

435. I think that assumes that he actually wants not to be the right-"centrist" he is

It's a good Occam's Razor practice to assume that a politician generally does what s/he believes in (even if that's simply doing what the corporate overlords demand).

We tend to give undue credit to Dems who vote like Repubs, assuming that they really wanted to do something different. After a while, the shoe should be recognized as fitting like a glove.

[Deep13]

296. So, it's not that they couldn't pass the Senate, but rather...

... "I rejected...."

[Mithreal]

298. +1

Too many people were leaking. My Senator's CoS, she is a member of Senate leadership, blames Obama for obstructing the process and sticking a knife in the back of those fighting on the side of the American people. Yeah, I added the knife in the back part but it fit.

[suffragette]

354. I was just thinking that with this statement, he'd taken out

the knife he's been poking in our backs and came up to our faces and plunged it into our hearts.
I have the same Senator and have been wondering about the behind the scenes process.
Now that you've said this, it all makes more sense.

[Mithreal]

604. I talked with him for no less than 30 minutes. Got a pretty good view.

He claimed our Senator was as frustrated as I was. Makes my head want to explode just hearing that. She's in one of those, you know, positions of power.

[suffragette]

638. Seems that since she's been in that position

of power, her voice has been more muted on some issues,
Figured that was because she's felt she's had to be supportive of the main agendas.
Was hoping she was pushing more in private, but sounds like she is being pushed instead.

Ironic how the position of power has reduced her power to speak out loud for us and pursue what she knows is right.
Clearly, the current bill is a long, long way from our state's party platform, which is what I endorse and what she should be pushing.


Looks like she's getting a bit more restive about what Arne Duncan's doing with education funding . Wonder how long before she's told to back off on that, too and what she'll do then.

[me b zola]

300. I stopped making excuses for him a little while ago

~its actually why I haven't been posting much. Disappointment doesn't begin to describe what I feel. :(

[Mithreal]

303. .

Have to move past disappointment to empowerment if you haven't already.

It's almost amusing when I hear my reps say how frustrated they are. Imagine how we the people feel.

[EFerrari]

312. Today, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing here any more

besides pissing people off who don't agree with me.

Disappointment doesn't even approach, I know. :(

[Lorien]

316. I call it heartbreak. nt

[Mithreal]

333. There'd be days like these. We're In This Together.

Don't underestimate the effect you have on those who care about your voice here.

[EFerrari]

340. You're right, there'll be days like this.

It's a little hard to remember that on days like this. Okay.

[defendandprotect]

570. When you think about this . . . women and unions are on the LEFT . . .

and Obama is hugging the corporatists -- wow!!

:scared:


:nuke:

[dana_b]

596. relating to people who know

exactly how you feel?? Look at this thread. You are far from alone. If we all took this energy and did work for progressive causes, we may make a dent. Notice I didn't say progressive candidates - I don't believe in candidates anymore.

[Cherchez la Femme]

309. How clearer can it be "the left" is not wanted?

I don't stay where I''m not wanted.

And after all this, when I, we, don't vote for those who have dismissed and denigrated us so very many times and the elections by our efforts we previously won are lost once again

somehow it will be all our fault.

It's just another game the New, Improved Democratic Party TM plays, all at our expense. I refuse to be their scapegoat.


Fuck it and Fuck them.

[pundaint]

329. Don't forget vote the fuckers out, just fire them, if it takes two years to get a better Democrat -

you got a faster way?

[Cherchez la Femme]

412. What viable Democrat you got?

Do you actually think one will get through the corporate media propaganda machine alone?

ANYONE even close to Progressive will get the Kucinich treatment. Remember, his crazy azz saw a UFO, that fool! He saw one just as astronauts, pilots, a large percentage of the people of the world AND even a huge number of U.S. police officers/sheriffs deputies! LOL those idiots.
But for Kucinich no, it wasn't an Unidentified Flying Object -- it was touted as a Fucking Flying Saucer! :rofl:
Insane! Let's laugh at Kucinich, at Jimmy Carter, at them all some more, it's done all the time,
even here on Democratic Underground.
And you're telling me even a mildly Progressive or Liberal (or whatever term you want) Democrat can win?

Gee, have you seen any Flying Saucers lately?


The powerful will go after any Progressive in the same way as they did Kuchinich, make no mistake.
Actually it will be worse, since multi-billion dollar corporations can now spend freely on candidates or against candidates. Free speech rights for a non-human being is perfectly sane, but not seeing anomalies in the sky.

And if they can't find something as 'laughable' as a UFO, sorry, Flying Saucer against these candidates they'll find something else as ridiculous or better, some sex scandal -- doesn't matter one whit if it's true or not. Never mattered before.

Rat-fucking is a long and honored, to some, tradition. Sure, the Pimpin' ACORN ploy was finally outed, but the damage has long been done. Even the "Liberal" NYT, the 'Paper of Record' (WMD's anybody?) hasn't corrected its stories; and the majority will keep believing the whole thing is true. Watch.

[KoKo]

531. +1

[defendandprotect]

571. It has to be acknowledged that the right wing has risen on political violence . . .

in order to truly understand this --

After that, we have to understand that what we are facing is the same fascism

that many others have faced -- think overturning slavery was easy?

Women's rights --

Labor/unions --

And there have been fascist wars all the time, used against the public --

as national security and Vietnam have been used to distract and confuse the public

then and now --

We also have to understand that it's not simply corporate-media/press . . .

we have CIA and Pentagon controlling much of the news and controlling networks/

newspapers!

And if we have anything to say or plan, we had better get it out there before they

shut down the internet!!





:nuke:

[pundaint]

660. I hope it's not true, and I wish I could refute it.

[pundaint]

659. Don't vote for what you don't want and then be surprised by what you get. From now on, If

I didn't get what I want I will vote for a new representative at every opportunity. Change requires doing something new. Do you have something different that hasn't already proven ineffective?

[newspeak]

496. "the left is not wanted"

FDR, Wellstone democrats are not wanted. I don't think it matters if a republican or democrat is president to the corporate elite, as long as, THEY PRESERVE THE STATUS QU0. So, if you're thinking about any type of change, especially in tough economic times, FDR change, you can forget about it. Because, that lil 'ol business plot during FDR's time is apparently here.

[defendandprotect]

572. Keep in mind, that means WOMEN and UNIONS, as well . . .

What they are also saying is that the NEW DEAL will be completely destroyed --

that includes Social Security and Medicare --

and reregulation of capitalism or amending trade agreements won't happen either!!



:nuke:

[Taverner]

310. Did you make the mistake of thinking the politicans actually cared about us?

As in the American People?

FUCKALL, politicians are like actors, except actors actually do work

Look at it this way: GOP victory - things get really bad really fast
Dem victory - things get bad but not as fast

[Hardrada]

590. Democrats kick you in the nuts too but they always say "Sorry."

[pundaint]

314. Centrist left middle - distractions. We need a Labor, or People, or Commons party,

When a General Purpose Party negotiates with a Corporate only party the only winner can be Corporate. To allow the inclusion of all points of view in an advocacy group like a political party is to give up all power. Democrats for war, democrats for flat taxes, democrats for employer rights, democrats for for-profit health insurers - these positions are all straightforward giveaways to traditional Republican government.

Just because the Republicans have shit all over their nest, that's no reason to take their slightly less batshit governance positions in to ours. Democrats should be All for the common interests of the People.

[defendandprotect]

573. WOMEN and LABOR ...both on the LEFT, both just thrown out of the Dem Party!!!

If you noticed . . .!!!

Probably HOMOSEXUALS, as well --

[pundaint]

317. Let's stop pretending that we believe that Left and Liberal or even Socialist is bad.

These are the basic way we are taught to treat each other by every moral tradition I am aware of.

[Mithreal]

334. Well said

:applause:

[defendandprotect]

575. Absolutely . . .

and this is a liberal nation --

I think what happened with this health care has also scared them --

we didn't even come out to demonstrate and they have 70% and more for MEDICARE FOR ALL --

and Catholics the same or more for MEDICARE FOR ALL - PLUS they want CONTRACEPTION

and ABORTION included --!!!

This is all a question of power -- and it's being held on, but they have to be frightened.

Maybe that's why it spilled over into what a few of us thought was "arrogance"?

Damn -- they couldn't even allow single payer to be at the table -- !!!

That, to me, means . . . they're frightened.

We have to acknowledge that the right wing has rise only on political violence,

assassinations -- vote stealing!

Then, it's easier to understand what's going on --

America is a liberal nation --

[wroberts189]

331. "provisions that the left wanted" and I campaigned on like the PO. knr/nt

[reggie the dog]

332. I have one digit up for you Obama and it aint my thumb

[wroberts189]

335. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that I was elected for.... sigh/nt

[mistertrickster]

336. Correction: I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions

that the left that I SAID I WANTED.

There, I fixed it for you, Mr. President.

And btw, could you bring back CANDIDATE Obama from wherever you've hidden him?

[pundaint]

383. good catch!

[Cass]

339. Well then, perhaps I'll just reject him next time he wants my vote.

Let him get elected with centrists and republicans. Screw this bullshit.

[upi402]

344. I'll vote aginst him in the primaries, for sure

A protest vote against any and every corporatist is very possible for me atm.

[change_notfinetuning]

343. Benedict Obama. Change is in the eye of the beholden. I sure don't see it.

I cannot, in good conscience, vote for him again. Not without holding my nose, wearing a full body condom and taking a long, long shower when I get home. And even then . . .

No change. Not even fine tuning. It's business as usual on steroids. At least, now, there can be no question on where he stands or the emptiness of his pretty speeches and promises to listen to all sides.

[asdjrocky]

348. Nailed it wicked hard.

[democracy1st]

349. the signs have been there from the beginning sad situation!

[change_notfinetuning]

350. At least he kept his promises of transparency and disempowering lobbyists.

:sarcasm:

[Mithreal]

452. +1

[Name removed]

379. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorien]

382. +100,000. nt

[MissDeeds]

386. Me too

Especially when they run as Democrats.

[readmoreoften]

413. +100,000,000. I so resent pressing the button for this asshole.

But if he didn't win, the truth wouldn't've been revealed. And, no, I don't give a shit about how horrible Republicans are. These Democrats enable Republicans to be as bad as they are. It's good cop, bad cop. And they all make mew utterly sick.

[Hardrada]

380. But where is the center? Stormfront considers Obama to be

an anthropoid ape. Free Republic thinks he is Hitler or Stalin. The actual Left thinks he is a corporate tool and scumbag traitor. Who is in the middle? Where is any center to US politics today?

[Lorien]

385. Today? Something between Nixon and Reagan

though Nixon was more Liberal than most Dems in office today.

[EFerrari]

393. The right is using "socialist" as code for black. That has nothing to do with

his actual positions.

[liberation]

476. So you are trying to say that the "left" and "stormfront" somehow are analogous?

Are you serious?

[hfojvt]

384. you are perhaps not as sick of the excrement

as the rightwing is.

I don't think what he said there is a terrible thing for a President to say. Wouldn't we have liked Bush to say, even once (and have it be true) "I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions tha the right wanted that are - you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system."

Just because the rightwing governed in a way that said "You lost by 5 percent, so it is all our way now" does not mean I think that we should do the same thing.

[EFerrari]

392. What do they have to be tired of? He's given them everything they wanted

from Rick Warren on. Oh, wait. Obama wanted that bigot.

[Lorien]

400. .

[Mithreal]

453. -1

[Bluebear]

403. Bart Stupak is only singing one song!!!!!1

[Ignis]

406. !

:spray:

You got me.

[QC]

424. You are not going to ruin this for the rest of us! n/t

[Duncan Grant]

434. LMAO!

Can't thank you enough for that little trip down memory lane. :D

[QC]

482. A blast from the past, isn't it?

Seems like there are lots of honorary homos about now: women, labor, teachers, environmentalists, progressives, liberals. Have I forgotten anyone?

[glitch]

633. Children.

And without an environment, civil liberties, an education, healthy food, genuine healthcare, any money at all, you might as well include all future generations.

[mrdmk]

408. Nothing like playing to your audience

To add insult to injury, the frigging Fox (we are trying to be the) News Viewers

[ljm2002]

419. I just realized something...

...has anyone ever, and I mean EVER, heard a Republican say words to the effect that "we have rejected many things that the right wanted..."

Nope. You will never hear such a thing. Now, it is true, they have punted on many issues that were dear to the hearts of their base, especially where the religious conservatives were concerned. And they sometimes dissed them in private.

But overall, they know that their party is to "the right". I don't think any of them would have a problem with being described, politically, as right wing. And they would never make a public statement damning "the right".

While over on this side of the aisle, we have a bunch of cowardly, sniveling, ashamed-to-be-liberal asshats who apparently do not consider themselves to be "left" at all. Not even a little bit. Most would bristle at being referred to as left wing. So it is easy to dismiss "the left".

The frame has been deeply internalized. "Left" == "bad". "Right" == "neutral". "Right of center" == True Blue American. "Any poll showing the population is left of center" == rejected.

[Bluebear]

428. Insightful and true. And the leader of our own party is buying into the slam.

[defendandprotect]

576. Agree . . . and now a Dem President is trying to delegitimize the LEFT ...

Obviously, Obama is saying the only positions with credibility are

the center and the right!!!

Remember, that leaves out all of the Dem left -- women and unions!!

Maybe homosexuals, as well?

[Ken Burch]

586. All together, the various groups thrown under the bus represent the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY

of the American people.

Most of us thought this administration would represent that majority. But, like Clinton, it's too scared to stand up to the ruling economic minority.

[defendandprotect]

650. Yes -- but an "UN-MOBILIZED MAJORITY" . . . !!!

Unfortunately, there are issues of trust which must be broken and which no one is

doing -

and they were reinforced by the believe in the 9/11 myth -- a return to the FEAR

and the need for "national security" measures. Mind-boggling!

180,000 people will die before 2014 when this health care scam goes into effect!

Public is simply poorly informed -- and little info from the tube is challenged.


But how many here at DU still watch TV?

The ruling class have one tool which will always win -- violence, assassinations --

and I'd include vote stealing.

That's the ONLY way the right can rise --


They are continuing to dismantle the rights won by women --

and they are continuing to dismantle unions --

When this power is totally subdued, some may wake up?

[LibDemAlways]

593. Totally agree. The rightwing is proud of being rightwing. They

don't run from it. They embrace it.

However, Dem politicians for the most part treat the term "liberal" or "left" as though it was a turd they found floating in the punch bowl. They can't get away from it fast enough because they've allowed assholes like Rush Limbaugh to make up a bunch of ridiculous lies that mostly go unchallenged. When was the last time Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi stood before a microphone and defended the accomplishments of the left? In the 20th Century the Democratic Party had a rich tradition of passing legislation to benefit people - from Medicare to Social Security to the GI Bill. We have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, and yet, the President we elected rejects our ideas - on FAUX no less. Absolutely outrageous and totally unacceptable.

[begin_within]

420. Well, the left may reject a whole bunch of you when you're up for reelection, Mr. Obama.

[ScreamingMeemie]

598. I will be the first person knocking on doors for a true Democratic

challenger to this worse than DINO.

[Jefferson23]

423. Public funded elections, and many of these whores would clean up their act.

That is the primary reason imo, they pull that bullshit line, " the hard left" blah blah blah.

[defendandprotect]

426. Obama is BS'ing . . . he did what his corporate backers wanted . . .

Anyone not feel betrayed?

[Nite Owl]

431. Medicare for all

is not even a lefty idea. Many, many who are registered Republicans are all for it. It's just not corporate enough for the DLC and the GOP in Congress.

[Mithreal]

454. +1

[defendandprotect]

577. ++1000% . . . true . . . Many Republicans also want Medicare for All --

[Kltpzyxm]

438. I worked my ass off for

this shit?

:wtf:

[YOY]

440. Hey for some folks here this turd sandwitch is their pony!

Can't we just be happy for yesterdays' Republican Par... I mean TODAY'S Democratic Party?!?!?

[sendero]

442. Obama doesn't have to worry..

.. about getting any more votes from this "leftist".

[GodlessBiker]

470. Agreed. If he publicly declares our ideas to be disruptive, I'm sure he doesn't need our votes.

Good luck to him.

[branders seine]

443. you know. those lefty ideas I campaigned on.

those ones.

[Bluebear]

456. You finally got "your pony". Here it is.

[branders seine]

669. just like the Ally Bank commercials...

[HCE SuiGeneris]

451. Damn Lefties. They f'n suck

it up and keep on fighting for meaningful change. How despicable can you get...

[skyounkin]

457. Heh- sorry Mr. President

I will not be voting for you in your re-election campaign. This leftie is rejecting your centrist ass. you have been to disruptive to MY system.

[KoKo]

458. LOL's to the "Fucking Retards."

:-(

[nickinSTL]

466. yeah - and because of this

and a lot of other failures of leadership, IMO...

you'll be lucky to get my vote in 2012 - and if you do, it'll be only because the Republican would be worse, and even if the Greens or another progressive party put forward a decent candidate he/she would have a snowball's chance in the Christian hell to get more than 10% of the vote.

(I stipulate the Christian hell, because as a Heathen, I view hel as a cold place :evilgrin: )

[liberation]

473. I find Obama's efficiency laudable though....

I guess they no longer have to pretend to tolerate the left now that they have the votes for their cheap political point.

He decided to throw the whole left under the bush in a single swoop, rather than having to do on a case by case basis. I assume Mr. Emmanuel had more important things to worry his beautiful mind with than deciding which liberal group they were going to undermine next in a piecemeal basis. Very efficient, like any corporatist worth their weight in salt would do! Yay!

PS. I noticed the usual DLC suspects ain't touching this thread with a 20ft pole... LOL

[Hardrada]

512. Yes, bring it on FC, hit us again BS!!

[Mithreal]

565. +1

[David Zephyr]

480. "...and I'm very proud of that fact." That's the tone.

Sad. Now watch me triangulate.

[Bluebear]

481. It's only a two-minute prayer!!

[QC]

491. HE'S ONLY GOING TO SING ONE SONG!1!1!1!!!

[readmoreoften]

602. He's a FIERCE ADVOCATE.

Si Se Puede (Cesar Chavez must be rolling in his grave.)

[Bluebear]

665. Yes indeed re: Chavez

[scentopine]

489. It is time for a new political party where liberals can participate and not be hated...

democratic party has a don't ask don't tell policy for liberals. I'm sick of this shit too. Both parlties hate liberals. We have done NOTHING WRONG.

We didn't want this fucking war.

We didn't want congress and the white house on their knees servicing wall street.

We wanted single payer.

We want re-regulation of financial markets.

Put an end to out-sourcing.

End to torture.

Justice and prosecution for torture and people who start wars that killed nearly a million people - all based on lies.

We don't want wall street bonuses, tax credits and tax cust masquerading as stimulus!@

So - come on you centrists and other right wingers out there why do you hate us? What have we done to you to cause you to hate us like this? Were we mean to you as a child? If so let me be the first to apologize. But I think iit must be something else. Is because we believe that America should come first - is it that we don't look at people and the planet as just another angle to make quick cash and screw everyone else? Maybe its because we believe in real justice - even if you are rich and powerful? Or maybe because we have empathy for the dead and destroyed lives and rivers of blood from ten years of unrelenting war?

Liberals have learned a valuable - lesson. Its time to end support of democratic party and form a new party where we can compete with the two mainstream and converging right wing parties.

RIP hope and change.

[defendandprotect]

578. Thank you --

:applause:

[emsimon33]

494. And that would also be what over 60% of the people wanted, you dumb ass, Obama

[defendandprotect]

580. ...and more than 73% of Catholics ... who also want contraception+abortion covered!!!

Despite the lying US Catholic Bishops -- !!!

[Canuckistanian]

495. Can you imagine if he had said "I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the right wanted"

You would hear the collective cry in Alaska.

Face it, once and for all.

Liberals are expendable.

[defendandprotect]

581. ... that the "DLC wanted" . . .would be nice!!! DLC poison in Dem Party!!!

Remember also that women's issue are liberal issues --

homosexual issues are liberal issues --

UNION issues are liberal issues --

hmmmm.....

Guess the betrayals aren't quite over yet, huh?

[ibegurpard]

497. what a shocker

[Incitatus]

509. checkmate nt

[Bluebear]

658. Indeed.

[Name removed]

523. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

532. "I have rejected anything that could actually work."

"I have rejected the basic premise that works in all of the rest of the industrialized nations and many 'developing' nations, that is, that health care finance should NOT be for profit."

"I have rejected the notions of comprehensive and universal in order to prop up the for-profit sick-care insurance industry and Big PhRMA here in the heart of the USAmerikan Empire."

"I have caved in to the corporate capitalist crooks because I'm Harvard Law. I spent years learning how to defend the special 1% who profit from the corporate capitalist kleptocracy from the dirty masses (that's you, clowns)."

"I AM a died in the wool capitalist and if any of you idiots didn't realize that before you voted for me, well, tough shit."

Barack Obama
pResident of the USAmerikan Empire


Same old shit, different container -- January 20, 2009

[readmoreoften]

603. 321 is a lot of recs.

The DLC can bite me.

[Moochy]

636. and yet its not a greatest thread!

I guess editorial control trumps this new fangled 'crowdsourcing' thing.

[Dinger]

536. Kickin' This Goddammit!

Sonofafuckingbitch!

[Individualist]

645. One good kick deserves another.

[autorank]

553. What a creepy quotation -- classic narcissism n/t k*r

[Ardent15]

559. Obama, you have lost a lot of votes in 2012.

Including this one.

[Libertas1776]

566. To quote a song from "1776"...

"To the right, ever to the right, NEVER to the left, forever to the right. Let our creed, be never to exceed, regulated speed, no matter what the need."

Please, we don't need another "cool, cool conservative" president. But it looks like we're getting just that. :eyes:

[Bluebear]

656. excellent song reference!

[alp227]

574. Washington press corps: Hound the President about this. NOW.

I can't believe that of all people OBAMA would say this kind of Reaganian or Bushian or Republican language. :banghead:

[usregimechange]

579. I 302 that

[depakid]

582. Responsible regulation of Wall Street will also be "too disruptive" for Obama

The chances look "better" every week that we're seeing a one termer at work here.

[SlingBlade]

587. And a whole bunch on the Left are going to reject you !

Corporate Ball Boy and Final member of the George HW Bush Foursome

Old Man Bush, His imbecile boy George Dubya, Bill Clinton and now Barrack Obama.

Just take out Ford and Hope and There ya go

[Loudmxr]

588. Yeah I noticed that a whole bunch of stuff was rejected ... before it got ANY hearing at all.

I will say it again. Do not trust this man. He is a politician and, I am sorry to say, a weaker one than I had hoped for.

Now let me be clear. I do not fully trust any one. I just have varying levels of mistrust.

I accept this bill.

I would be thrilled to say "I like this bill." or something even better than like. I will stay with accept.

Additionally most of the time I like him being my president. Most of the rest of the time I LOVE him being my president. Those few moments, when I recall the SC victory speech, I am thrilled beyond words that he is OUR president. I just don't trust him.:smoke:

[LibDemAlways]

592. Why the hell is Obama talking to FAUX in the first place? They

treat him with nothing but contempt and disdain. Their viewers hate him. Nothing he could ever say or do could ever make them change their closed minds.

And then to go on there and disparage the left. Can you imagine Bush going on Olbermann and putting down the right? Never. Not in a million years would that have happened. Why not? Because Repukes don't speak ill of other Repukes. That's a dictum that goes back to Reagan. Obama's dissing of the ideas of the the people who got him elected - on FAUX news no less - is outrageous.

[ScreamingMeemie]

597. And I reject you Mr. President.

Great job. Really, just really swell.

Signed,

A true moderate

[Leftist Agitator]

599. All that I have to say is...

That one reaps what one sows.

[Raine]

600. Well President Obama ... I REJECT YOU

YOU will never get my vote ever again!

[BigBearJohn]

609. +1

[moondust]

606. Musn't disrupt the insurance cash cow/death industry.

[FlyByNight]

607. "...I thought it would be too disruptive to the system."

This is President Obama's political outlook crystallized.

Centrism is horse-shit and political cowardice. The "other side" (of the corporate super-party) consists of nothing but greedy, petulant, amoral children and dealing with them dilutes anything meaningful. Perhaps that's what the President wants.

I actually think the President played the HCR battle perfectly: some meaningful changes but the structure remains intact. I suspect financial reform, environmental reform, etc., will be similar, sadly.

:thumbsdown:

[democrank]

608. Let`s hold "The Left" responsible for all party problems.

If they`d stop yakking about universal health care, equal rights, social and economic justice, this party could really go somewhere! And, the Afghan War is soooooooooooooooo George Bush!

[asdjrocky]

617. The door just keeps closing for me.

[Enthusiast]

619. "I am so sick of this shit!"

Me too.

If the present day Democratic Party is going to morph into a sort of kinder corporatist party I am done with them. I mean this sincerely. And they HAVE morphed into a sort of kinder faced corporatist party, compared to the GOP.

The Democratic Party is sitting on their hands after the supreme court handed down the most egregious decision in history. Where is the corrective action? This is a crisis that needs immediate action.

The Democratic Party is sitting on their hands after the American people were fleeced by Wall Street. Where are the new regulations? Why don't we see huge investigations into the perpetrators of these crimes? This is a crisis that needs action, immediate action.

The Democratic Party has failed me.

[Gin Blossom]

641. "We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand"

I'm reminded of the Neil Young lyric, taking a phrase from Bush Sr:

We've got a thousand points of light for the homeless man
We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand
We got department stores and toilet paper
Got styrofoam boxes for the ozone layer
Got a man of the people, says "Keep'em alive"
Got fuel to burn, got roads to drive

Keep on rockin' in the free world...
***
I think this is the longest thread I've ever read in years lurking at DU. I agree with almost everything said here. I'm morbidly fascinated how we slowly realized where all the "Change You Can Believe In", "Audacity of Hope" and "Yes We Can" was going to leave us. How "It's only been X months" mutated into the "master chess game" meme, etc.

I recently threw out some old mail from Obama asking me if I was going to "stand with him", about his OFA (Organizing For America). My heart felt like lead.

[Enthusiast]

646. Yeah.

We didn't vote for "more Bush". That was the LAST thing we wanted. I feel your leaden heart.

Love me some Neil Young.

[Gin Blossom]

649. Thanks,

Enthusiast. I just remembered to change my sig line as others have done.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

625. He gloats about "rejecting the left." Laments about "rejecting the right."

So sick and tired of it as well.

While I understand that this country is centrist and most Americans identify themselves as "moderate" (that's debatable, but nevertheless...), I always find it very disgusting how Democrats always run away from their base while Republicans are a slave to theirs.

Sad indeed! :(

[frustrated_lefty]

628. The left just might remember in 2 yrs.

[Moochy]

632. For Fox's Sake

That's why he did this, a desperate need to be liked and accepted by even his enemies, because you know he's so transformative and change-y

[Moochy]

634. Anyone else find it awesome that this thread is prevented from

being on the greatest page? the +suppress_inconvenient_truth flag must be flipped on this article.

Maintaining the necessary illusions is hard work!

[EFerrari]

639. It was on the greatest page all day yesterday. Edit: Oops, it timed out.

[Moochy]

640. i meant the greatest threads page itself... i did not know it had a 24 hour limit

I missed the announcement where the unrec counts of below zero <0 became 0, I thought this might have been another feature tweak.

Thanks for informing me, since I can now use this tin foil on my potato. :D

[EFerrari]

642. LOL. Thanks for the chuckle, Moochy.

:)

[Bluebear]

648. lol at potato :) or potatoe as Quayle spelled it

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

637. He lost me at Rahm. This is not surprising.

[Max Stein]

647. Under the bus

we go. No room left for the left.

[LWolf]

654. Too late to recommend, but I'll give it a kick.

It doesn't get more blatant than that.

[muffin1]

668. Another kick

I am truly sick to my stomach. I really did think he would try to change things. What a fool I was. Never again.

Unlike a lot of you, I actually believed in him thoroughly. I cheered while watching his speeches. I got the tingle just like Chris Matthews. I wore Obama buttons all over town like an idiot.

Now? I don't even feel like defending him against teabaggers. I can barely stand to watch him anymore.





:kick:

[Shining Jack]

670. "I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted..."

Then I'm afraid that the evil left will reject you in 2012 Mr President.:(