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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:07 AM
Original message
Impeaching Cheney ... a 20 Question Q&A...
Edited on Tue Jan-30-07 01:12 AM by dEMOK
Twenty Questions About Impeaching A Vice President


by Dr. Mary Maxwell

Global Research, November 5, 2005


1. Q: How long would it take to eject a vice president from office by impeachment?

A: Theoretically it could be done in a day. In the morning a member of the House of Representatives could propose one or more Articles of Impeachment and then a vote could be called. A simple majority (50% plus one vote) is all that is needed to impeach. In the afternoon the Senate could try the case. A two-thirds vote is needed in the Senate to convict.

2. Q: Why is it so simple?

A: Because ejecting a person from high office is political, not judicial. The only punishment to be meted out is removal from office.

3. Q: What is an impeachable offense?

A: An impeachable offense can be as nebulous as “He practices cronyism.” We can call this a misdemeanor. According to the Constitution, Article II, Section 4, “The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” President Gerald Ford was correct when he said in 1970 that, “An impeachable offense is whatever the majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at any given moment in its history.”

4. Q: Is there any good argument against impeaching a vice president based on the notion that the person of greater authority – the president - should take responsibility for whatever happens in his administration?

A: No, none whatsoever.

5. Q: Would the Senate have to provide such things as reasonable time for the defense to prepare its case, and a close scrutinizing of evidence?

A: No. The Senate is procedurally bound only by the rules it makes for itself. The Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 5 (2), says, “Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings.”

6. Q: Doesn’t the accused have rights? Where are the wheels of justice here?

A: Justice does not come into it. Think of it this way: If a congresswoman has done a fabulous job for two years, but fails to win reelection, does she have any redress? Of course not. She holds office at the pleasure of the voters, and they indicate their pleasure every two years. A president takes office at the pleasure of the voters, but he holds onto office at the pleasure of Congress. At any time in our history, Congress could have ejected a president or a vice president.

7. Q: Has this ever happened?

A: Congress has never impeached a vice president, but it impeached two presidents – Andrew Johnson and William Clinton. In both cases, the Senate subsequently failed to convict. Many people mistakenly believe that Richard Nixon, too, was impeached. The House Judiciary Committee had voted three Articles of Impeachment against him, but the matter was never put to the full House for a vote because Mr. Nixon promptly resigned.

8. Q: What does an impeachment trial look like?

A: It is held in the Senate Chamber and looks like a normal Senate session, except that all Senators are sworn in as jurors. Article I, Section 3 (6) of the Constitution says, “When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation.” The man of the hour may attend or send someone to represent him. He can plead guilty or refute the charges. Each Senator must stand at her place and pronounce her judgment as ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty.’ The Constitution requires that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court come over to the Senate Chamber to preside when a president is being impeached. In 1986, the Senate extended this to cover vice presidents.

9. Q: Is it easy to eject a vice president with whom the people are dissatisfied?

A: Yes, it’s a snap. It takes only one House member to propose impeachment. Then, 219 out of the 435 members must agree, if all are present and voting (fewer, if some are absent from the House or abstain from voting). So your question boils down to: Are there 219 House members willing to vote to impeach? The answer is “Yes, if they feel that it is in their interest” - whatever way they may calculate that interest. Part of their calculation may be to look ahead and see if 67 Senators would be willing to convict the vice president.

10. Q: The number sixty-seven seems very high. Would it ever be possible to get that many votes?

A: It is possible to get the full 100 Senate votes if all you are asking about is ‘possibility’. In reality, during President Andrew Johnson’s impeachment trial in 1867, only a single vote in the Senate spared him from conviction (since there were fewer states then, the two-thirds majority was smaller than 67). At Clinton’s trial, the vote on one of his two Articles of Impeachment was 55-45. On the second one, it was 50-50.

11. Q: Regarding the current vice president, Richard Cheney, are we precluded from impeaching during the time that his former assistant, Mr. Lewis Libby, is facing prosecution for alleged crimes?

A: No. There is no reason to hold back - the Libby case may take years. However, persons wishing to take care not to prejudice Mr. Libby’s trial may wisely urge that any impeachable offense brought forward against the vice president be of a type pertaining specifically to him.

12. Q: Could the president offer a pardon to thwart the process of impeachment?

A: No. The Constitution puts only one restriction on the president’s power to pardon, namely it cannot be used in cases of impeachment.

13. Q: Does this mean that if by any chance Mr. Cheney has committed a crime he can never enjoy a pardon?

A: No, it does not mean that. President Bush, or a later president, could pardon Mr. Cheney. The president is prevented only from interfering in the process of impeachment.

14. Q: Could Mr. Cheney seek a presidential pardon right now?

A: Yes. Indeed, for all we know, the current president may be holding a batch of signed (and witnessed) pardons in his desk at this very moment.

15. Q: Are you suggesting that President Bush could pardon a person’s crime in advance of the person being convicted of any crime?

A: Yes. The elder President Bush (president from 1989 to 1993) issued a pardon a few weeks before he left office, for Caspar Weinberger, who at that point had not been convicted of anything. Quite possibly his motive was to avoid being subpoenaed as a witness at Weinberger’s trial. As a witness, Bush could be cross-examined and his own dealings in the Iran-Contra affair could have been revealed.

16. Q: Did the president dishonor the Constitution by doing that?

A: No. He played the Constitution for all it is worth. That is what the Constitution is for. It is not an idealistic statement; it is a scheme for allocating power and controlling power by checks and balances. The Founding Fathers put many restraints on the president but gave him his head when it came to pardons. They probably wanted the president to have bargaining chips that he could use in difficult or dangerous circumstances.

17. Q: Strategically, from the viewpoint of the current vice-president, what would be the best move to make if rumors of impeachment start to swirl?

A: Presuming that Mr. Cheney would hate to lose the position of immense power that he now occupies, his options would be a) to hasten to correct any offending behaviors, or b) to try to get the president ejected from office, in which case he himself would immediately become president.

18. Q: When a vice president leaves office before his term is up, how is he replaced?

A: If a vice president dies, resigns, or is impeached, the president can nominate any American-born citizen, age 35 or older. That nomination must then be confirmed by a majority in both Houses of Congress before the person can be sworn in as the new vice president.

19. Q: How can a citizen start impeachment activity?

A: By ‘talking it up,’ by seeking publicity for the idea, and by persuading a Congressperson to propose it. Since 2001 when President George W. Bush took office, there have been numerous public calls for his impeachment and some of these extend their proposal to include the impeachment of Vice President Richard Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. One proposal that names all of those persons is sponsored by Ramsey Clark, who was Attorney General in the 1960s. So far, 607,000 citizens have signed his petition. Number 16 in Clark’s list of complaints sounds particularly relevant to the vice president, namely “refusal to provide information and records legislative oversight of executive functions.”

20. Q: Is Mr. Cheney currently threatened with any prosecutions?

A: The case of Rodriguez v. Bush, names Bush, Cheney, and several others as defendants in a RICO suit. This is not a criminal prosecution, but is a civil suit that asks for criminal penalties, if appropriate. ‘RICO’ stands for Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act. A judge recently transferred this case to the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York because it accuses the government of crimes related to September 11th and the U.S. Attorney has decided to coordinate numerous September 11th cases at that court. The mainstream media never mentions the Rodriguez v. Bush case, but it is available on the Internet.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MAX20051105&articleId=1185

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dooner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Informative! May Cheney's impeachment begin soon.
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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Cheney is indeed...
...the tail wagging the dog.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. And who would be his replacement? McCain? Jeb? Who would Monkey choose? NT
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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I think Bush Would be Happy to Get Divorced from Cheney...
Bush was as green as can be when he ascended to office. Cheney was a Nixon devotee. Cheney (& Rummy) and the rest of the PNAC crowd deceived their hand-chosen one into fronting their agendas.

Bush was a pawn; & I think he would let the chips fall as they may if he were able to let history judge his advisors.
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dooner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Some think Rice would take Cheney's place
But more likely somebody like McCain, getting into position. (Or how about Joe Lieberman?)


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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Naw....even Laura said it, no husband, no votes.
Middle America would still say "There's sumptin' WRAWWWWWWWNG with that gal..." even though half of women prefer the Single Life, according to recent reports...

Then, you'd need a new SECSTATE...who's next in line? Why, JOHN NEGROPONTE. Forget that!!! That would be a knock-down, drag out, I suspect...unless he crapped on the guy and picked an outsider...again, from the Senate, to avoid contention....perhaps LIEBERMAN??? Then, the GOP governor of CT could pick a GOP replacement, and flip the Senate to the GOP....
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Both should be removed, they are equals in the commission of crimes.
As Kucinich just stated less than an hour ago on the floor of the House: "There will be Constitutional consequences for the president and vice-president..."

This would give us our first female acting president.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Cheney leaving White House would be like Edgar Bergen's hand leaving Mortimer Snerd.
Smirk wouldn't know what to say or when.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. He wasn't a pawn. He was a stooop who thought he was smarter than his 'deddy'
He wanted to show his paw that he could do it better, and that even tho Paw always liked Jebbie best, that HE was really the big cheese. Of course, that didn't work out too well for him, did it?

He's still gonna need a VP if they dump Dickie. The only way to avoid a contentious 'advise and consent' session in the Senate is to PICK a SENATOR. Then, it's voice vote, unanimous, no problem. McCain?? Brownback??? Hagel??? Which one will the master 'bless?'
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Who would a majority of both houses of Congress approve?
My guess would be a current Senator... more probably Hagel than McCain, though. Then again, it'd more probably be McCain than Brownback.

I've conjectured for some time that Cheney would leave, one way or another, and be replaced by the GOP power center's anointed candidate in 2008. The stage would then be set for the martyring of Dubya, solving the noxious problem of dealing with him as an 'ex-pResident.' The sympathy vote would then probably be enough to put the replacement-VP-cum-pResident over the top in the 2008 election.

Whether or not that scenario plays out, it's imperative that this country brings thee criminals to justice.

Impeach. Remove. Indict. Convict. Imprison. (Rinse. Repeat.)

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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. You used the proper term - "Criminals"...
Edited on Tue Jan-30-07 02:06 AM by dEMOK
The very people who swore (under penalty of law) to uphold and protect the Constitution have sold us out! ...(for personal fear & greed)
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Both don't have to approve. Just the Senate.
They do the Advise and Consent routine. Monkey proposes, the Senate disposes. That's why schlumps like John Asssshcroft had no trouble getting their posts. The Senate is very collegial. A smart President, when in hot water and needing a boost, nominates a fairly well liked Senator to something, anything...It doesn't have to be a currently sitting one (like Ashcroft, he was a loser to a dead man) but it has to be someone the voting group knows and gets along with. One of the most collegial on the GOP side is, believe it or not, Trent Lott. He's quite pleasant one-on-one. Of course, the Monkey hates his ass, so that might be problematic. Lieberman would be a way of sticking the knife in--Sue Collins or Olympia Snowe (or someone, anyone, else) would have to flip to keep the Senate (D) in that case.

If it was a Senator, and I had to pick the most likely one, McCain is the obvious choice. He's STILL bleating the Bushco line, and banging the Bushco drum, long after everyone else has run for the hills.

If Bush actually wanted to put someone in the job with a SHOT at keeping the WH, he'd be well advised to pick someone a bit off the beaten track--like, say, HUCKABEE. With the right "free" publicity and spin management, that guy could be made to look like a cross between a schoolteacher, an exercise coach, and the (not perverted) manager of a daycare center and health clinic. He's making the rounds, shopping his new book, and working like hell to come off as pleasant, reasonable, moderate, middle of the road, just-like-you-or-me, AND he's a late blooming health nut who will make everyone diet, exercise, quit smoking, and be healthy or else! The guy you'd like to have a (Lite) beer with--but only one!
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. No, it's Both
25th Amendment

Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

=====
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Jesus, I do stand corrected!!! Apologies! And thanks for the lesson. You learn something new
every day!
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. It's actually for a substantive reason
The amendment is recognition that the appointment of a "possible president" is more important than mere cabinet officers.

As such, the decision is vested, in large part, in the body closest to the "consent of the governed," the House. Thus implementing The People's sovereignty as far as possible under the circumstances.

(And I know you probably realize this. I'm really just kicking the thread.)

--
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. It's a useful elucidation, and thinking about it, it makes total sense.
Back in 67 when the thing was ratified, I was probably off at a peace march and not paying attention!

Funny, though, that all these years later, I still missed it!
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Change has come Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Fascinating
Thank you for posting this.
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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Your Welcome...

Anyone in the world who loves democracy must hate the direction of our country.
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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. Impeachment is not just for presidents,,,
nt
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. "Done in a day", such a beautiful group of words as regards impeachment.
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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. The Time is Now to Demand this...

Cheney is the one behind the "surge" (better known as an escalation of forces in Iraq).

There is no military solution in Iraq. Only a diplomatic agenda has a prayer of working. Cheney is a die hard hawk, deserving of only a tertiary role as an adviser. He's running the friggin' show!
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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. One Favorite...
4. Q: Is there any good argument against impeaching a vice president based on the notion that the person of greater authority – the president - should take responsibility for whatever happens in his administration?

A: No, none whatsoever.

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. And by the way, welcome to DU!
:hi:
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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Thanks man..
Cheney has done more to undermine the Constitution than Benedict Arnold ever dreamed of.
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
20. He might be impeached in the house, but I doubt that the senate
votes (2/3) to convict would be possible.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
22. She is Misleading on the Clinton Senate Vote -- 45-55 not 55-45
Not technically incorrect, but many would presume guilty votes first without other explanation.

They couldn't even get it up to a majority for either bogus charge.

Pure partisan. Pure failure.

---
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
23. This is great.
Are you planning on posting in the Research Forum or do you mind if I do?
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dEMOK Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Please feel free to post this in Research rosesaylavee...
...You have more experience here, and would do a better job than I would. Thanks.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Ok. When I get
a chance later this week. I have been tooling around in there for about a week or so and think I have figured it out. This is a great post - I think others would benefit from reading it as we approach what better be the inevitable impeachment and indictment of this scoundrel.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
25. He could be IMPEACHED tomorrow! What are they waiting for?
IMPEACH!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. The greater the force behind it, the better the chances for success. (nt)
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Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
26. How do we get the ball rolling?
We've all been wanting impeachment for years for W and Cheney. How do we convince our congressional leaders that we the people are fed up with criminal behavior in this administration?
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Write letters to your Reps. and to newspapers, talk about it, support
Edited on Tue Jan-30-07 01:55 PM by Kurovski
online efforts, sign petitions, call local radio talkshows and bring up the topic.

Edit: Phone calls to your reps are also good, but letters are best. No, wait, doing BOTH are best! :hi:

Edit#2: Check out this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x81349
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