The "up or down vote" rhetoric turn about by Obama

[quinnox]

I was really pleased to see the republicans "up or down vote!" rhetoric used against them by Obama in his speech the other day.

Remember the republicans used this as a rallying cry for their right wing judges to be voted on, and the Democrats caved in. Well now its our turn, and lets see what the republicans think now about a fair up or down vote on health care and other Democratic priorities.

Like the republicans said, its only fair in a democracy to have an up or down vote! It doesn't get more American than that. Obama and all the Democratic leaders should start repeating this endlessly on tv and interviews.

Surely the republicans would abide by their own principles in this matter? If not, I would love to hear their explanations for why now an up or down vote is not a good and democratic thing to do.

[wiggs]

1. I don't like it so much...using the republicans' argument that we were on the

other side of not too long ago. Makes dems and republicans both look like hypocrites.

Truth is, this is entirely different. The republicans have abused and corrupted the purpose of the filibuster and are looking for political gain and donation sources rather than helping craft legislation that is needed. The republicans have set filibuster records, by far, in recent years. The dems and president need to present their approach as countering extreme and irresponsible behavior unique to this group of republicans and their complete disregard for doing the work of the people. I don't think we should frame it opposite to the frame the dems were using when filibustering SOME of Bush's lower court appointees.

I like the filibuster as practiced by thinking, reasoning individual senators. It was designed in order to ensure that legislation was thoroughly discussed and all points of view heard. It was not envisioned as a tool to stop the senate in its tracks, used by an extreme minority that bands together and votes and behaves according to leadership direction.

The point is, the republicans are in uncharted, reprehensible, unprecedented, self-serving territory and our actions are in response to that.

[gratuitous]

2. Who's going to sit still for a nuanced argument, though?

The Democrats are being perfectly reasonable and measured in their response. But if you get bogged down in a lengthy explanation for why this is entirely different (and it is), your message is going to get lost. Four words, four words parroted endlessly by the Republicans just a few years ago, is pretty effective, and even the stonebrained newsreaders can get it. They surely got it in the past.

Now, if someone wants to engage, and gets into a lengthy argument about how Democrats are being hypocrites for using Republican tactics, then it's time to go into the details. But a snappy, simple slogan that conveniently fits up the nether regions of the cynical GOP is the perfect tool for the discussion at this point.

[wiggs]

3. And part of this argument, an important part, is to counter the RW meme

that america doesn't want health care reform. This is so easy to do...I don't know why there isn't a very visible and angry backlash when Boehner LIES and says he doesn't know anyone who wants the public option...or when McConnell LIES and asserts, unchallenged, that polls show that americans are against HCR.

Makes me sick that the media would show it...makes me sick that pundits don't counter it...makes me sick that our reps don't pick up on the lies and call them what they are.