Violent French husbands 'may be tagged'

[ccharles000]

Men seen as likely to be violent towards their wives could be forced to wear an electronic tag under a law being debated by the French parliament.

The tag would have to be worn by men who have received a court order to stay away from their partner.

The proposal is part of a draft law on conjugal violence. It has cross-party support and is expected to pass easily.

According to the government, around 160 women in France are murdered by their husbands or partners every year.

Parliament is also considering outlawing psychological violence in the home, because it is seen by many as a precursor to physical violence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8537591.stm

[punkin87]

1. There has to be a thousand better ways to save those potential victims.

[aquart]

2. Yes. Why inconvenience a batterer?

I LOVE the idea. It might also discourage other women from going near them. Then maybe they could just beat up each other.

Honestly, it's much more civilized than branding their foreheads which I would also not oppose.

[left coaster]

5. Yes, I like the idea as well..

And why not expand it to include registered sex offenders/pedophiles? Sounds fair.

[pipi_k]

43. Just wondering how a "tag" or monitor would work in those cases...

It might keep the pedophile from leaving his own home, or going near a school or other place where children might be, but let me tell you that a determined pedophile can find LOTS of ways to get near kids.

He doesn't even have to leave his own house.

So yes, it could protect kids out in the community, but it wouldn't do anything to protect kids who might come to his house...especially if the kids' parents have no idea he's been tagged (or monitored).

[punkin87]

6. It has nothing to do with inconveniencing a batterer! If they're that bad, keep them in prison.

But once this is okay, then there will be more unpopular people that will be tagged. Some innocent.

That may be okay with you, not with me.

[aquart]

34. France is napoleonic code still, isn't it?

I think it's cute that you label someone WHO BEATS UP WOMEN as "unpopular."

Just think of me as a Mean Girl.

[CTyankee]

3. I wish the women who wound up dead from domestic violence could have a word with you...

and just how do you deter a man who is determined to be violent against his partner and has been so in the past, won't be so(even deadlier) in the future?

[punkin87]

7. See above.

[pipi_k]

8. Actually, I agree with you...

Because the problem doesn't ONLY lie with the violent husbands...it also lies with the women who keep taking these guys back again and again and again.

Or the women who get involved with a violent man and fail to see (or believe) the red flags...the warning signals that indicate they're with someone who will, at some point, abuse them.


Along with the monitoring system, they (and everyone in a particular society) need to do lots of counseling with women so they won't get involved with violent men to begin with, or know HOW to leave if they ever do get involved with violent men.

Start teaching little girls that it's NOT acceptable to be a punching bag

Start teaching little boys that girls and women are not punching bags.


Sticking a tag on someone and expecting it to solve the entire problem is just...well...rather naive, IMO.

So I see where you're coming from in your reply...

[CTyankee]

20. If girls are raised in a family, in a community, that condones violence against women

then they are going to think such treatment IS acceptable.

If girls are repressed from the time of their infancy to accept this, to accept being denied their rights as human beings, that they are inferior humans and should not speak up, what do you expect?

I don't know how you can go into a community and help the women speak up in France. But here, maybe we can, I don't know. But France...that is a difficult situation...I don't even know which communities it is that they are referring to...

[pipi_k]

38. Exactly, and that's why

I understand what the person I replied to was talking about when s/he made the statement that there must be hundreds of other, better, ways to take care of the problem, because simple monitoring isn't going to eradicate the behavior. It's more like putting a bandaid on a broken leg and calling it "fixed good enough".

[CTyankee]

49. Except that we have data that shows that batterers end up killing their victims

sooner or later if they are not STOPPED, at least here in the USA. I would bet it's the same in France and everywhere. They keep on coming after their victim regardless of court orders and in so many tragic cases, they succeed. Then you have a dead woman and it doesn't do much for the case of incremental steps. This is one of those instances where it is better to err on the side of too much rather than too little, IMO...

[pipi_k]

50. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't stop the abusers...

We should. Absolutely.


But because women who get involved with abusers keep repeating the same cycle with other abusers over and over again, we need to also address that side of the problem.

And we need to teach young women the danger signals so that they'll be pretty sure if and when they get involved with someone who will abuse them. In short, if a man hits you once, he'll do it again...no matter WHAT he says, or no matter how pathetic he looks as he cries and says he's "sorry".

One hit...one slap...one kick or punch...

out the door.


Unfortunately, a lot of abusive men don't really start to get abusive until their victims become emotionally involved with them, which makes it hard for the women to leave.


One way to get a clue on whether a man will abuse a woman is to find out what sort of relationship he has with his mother.

There are other ways too, of course...and awareness training would go a long way toward helping women to avoid becoming victims of abusers.

[CTyankee]

52. Yes! Thank you for the post, that was great!

You are absolutely right. These women, who have been brainwashed into submission,need to have this kind of education. But they, too, need more protection while they are being educated. It isn't easy just becoming a completely, full blown informed person. So we are not dealing with people whose judgment hasn't been significantly clouded by self doubt and self hatred. It will take time. In the meantime, they need PROTECTION against violent predators in the strongest possible terms. Halfway efforts don't protect them.

[pipi_k]

53. I knew we would find a point of agreement in there...

:)

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pipi_k]

40. I'm really sorry you didn't understand what I meant

and had to resort to name calling to make a point that has nothing whatsoever to do with the point I was making, which is that

We need to do more to teach young girls and women...BEFORE they become victims...how NOT to become victims.

and

We need to do more to HELP victims of violence to LEARN how to break away from the abusers


Yes, I know all about "battered woman syndrome"

And that is why we need to stop thinking a fucking bandaid on a broken leg is going to fix the whole problem. Maybe it makes people who don't want to do more feel better to think they've done "all they can".

Well...we gave them monitors...that's all we can do.

Bullshit.


Oh, and I have a suggestion for you for the future...calling someone names only makes you look like someone who can't make a cogent point.

have a nice day.

:)

[fizzgig]

29. blame the victim

brilliant :eyes:

[pipi_k]

41. Again...

Nobody is blaming the victim here.

I understand just how hard it is to break away from a chronic abuser.

That's why we, as a society, need to stop being stupid about thinking that putting a monitor on someone is going to stop the behavior.

Here...read this article and tell me how well ankle monitors really work

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/102706/met_5839060.shtml


You have no idea how many times I've seen women go back to their abusers, time and time again, even when there are no children involved...even when the woman can support herself...even when OFFERED help.


Women like this need intense mental health counseling...not stupid half-assed attempts to keep the abusers away from them. Monitors...protective orders...

nothing but garbage. Totally useless.


And anyone who thinks they're going to help is a big part of the problem as well.

[EOTE]

46. If you'd read the post, you'd see that no one is blaming the victim here.

And to suggest that there are actions that can be taken by a potential victim that will decrease their risk of becoming an actual victim is NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM. By you suggesting that it is will ensure that there are more victims. That attitude is quite destructive. I'm guessing that advocating for self defense classes is blaming the victim as well? Brilliant :eyes:

[pipi_k]

47. Thank you! Someone who gets it!

I'll never understand how or why some people can think that empowering someone to avoid being a victim in the first place equates to blaming the victim.

I personally feel it's better to keep people from being victims than to wait until later and then, once the horse is out of the barn, so to speak, do a flimsy imitation of "helping" the victims with things that might even make the situation worse in the long run.

There are times when I suspect that people who don't want to empower people before they become victims might actually WANT people to be victims.

[femrap]

25. I could think of

some that would be much more uncomfortable for the woman beater. :evilgrin:

[punkin87]

31. I despise worms that batter women. That's why they should be in prison if guilty.

[femrap]

32. And you're going to keep

them there forever?

[Macoy]

37. Shock Collar

I would love to see people convicted of domestic abuse tagged. Then release them back in to the general population so they can hold down a job and pay restitution to the victim. Of course my tag would be more in the line of a shock collar…….with the victim of the abuse holding the control unit.
Is the abuser violating a restraining order??, zap!....acting stupid ?? zap! Of course, I would hope the victim doesn’t follower her abuser around and zaps him…...too much. :)


Macoy

[femrap]

42. Welcome to DU....

I like the way you think!

Of course, people may complain that the collar is visible and such a stigma...so maybe this 'collar' should be placed on certain other parts of the body which are not visible to the public?:evilgrin:

Can we do this to rapists as well? I believe they deserve a tougher form of punishment.

[pipi_k]

45. I hate to say it, but...

I actually like this idea, even though it doesn't address the problem of what happens if/when the abuser decides to abuse someone who wasn't a past victim of his, and doesn't have a controller.

The scary thing here is what might happen if the abuser got so pissed off that he found some way of removing the collar and just decided to go whole hog on his victim...maybe killing her...in a desperate measure to get revenge.

[Nikki Stone1]

33. Punkin, sometimes judges let them off thinking that the wives are exaggerating or

are at fault somehow. I agree with you in that I don't like this tagging procedure. Slippery slope. But here in LA some years back, there was a law that required police officers that had battered their wives to turn in their guns. So Lee Baca, the LA County Sheriff, went in and expunged all domestic violence records from all of his officers so they could have their guns. Law enforcement often participates in victimizing women. Those men should have been OFF the police force; if they could batter their wives, they could abuse their authority with some young punk in North Hollywood.

[Union Yes]

4. A tiny price to pay if it curbs or helps stop domestic abuse and violence.

I'm no fan of electronic surveillance in general, but it's certainly acceptable in these cases to monitor abusers.

edit: recced

[JerseygirlCT]

9. I have been thinking that this is the only thing to be done

I keep reading of battered women who get a restraining order. Which, of course, does nothing. And then end up dead or horribly beaten.

I understand that there will be issues of proving that the partner is guilty of violence, but once that's been shown... it shouldn't be left up to the hope that a violent man will obey a restraining order. If you're ready to harm someone, will a restraining order really worry you?

[BalancedGoat]

10. I see no reason the law shouldn't at least be gender neutral. n/t

n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

11. Yes, I agree

though it's much more likely the man who will be a batterer, there are certainly women who are guilty of this, too.

The violent partner, then, regardless of gender.

[cvoogt]

14. actually ...

Women and men are about as likely to be abusive, even physically abusive, however men tend to inflict a lot more damage, and are far less likely to ever talk about being abused, because of the stigma. I think such laws should be gender neutral regardless of the statistics, as a matter of principle (and I think we're on the same page - I just wanted to share some statistics that may be interesting).

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence.

"Popular emphasis has tended to be on women as the victims of domestic violence.<7> Many studies<8><9> show that women suffer greater rates of injury due to domestic violence, and some studies show that women suffer higher rates of assault.<10> Yet, other statistics show that while men tend to inflict injury at higher rates, the majority of domestic violence overall is reciprocal."

(Deal, J. E., & Wampler, K. S. (1986). Dating violence: The primacy of previous experience. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 3, 457-471.)

[Cerridwen]

30. "The neutrality of this article is disputed"

Wiki quotes are cool for less controversial topics.

Not so much when it gets into controversy.

As you try to find support for your argument, beware the "I hate women because mine fucked me over," "My mommy hated me," "Men's 'rights' sites."

Good luck.

[supernova]

13. I'd agree under these conditions

1) You'd have to have been arrested for battery and/or had a restraining order taken out on you.

IOW, there has to be some official track record of your behavior. Then sure, tag 'em. I would not want to give people a new "scarlet letter" just on suspicion and heresay alone.

On a similar note, I wish there was some we we could identify people who engage in emotional and financial battery. Those are equally as debilitating, but they leave no physical evidence.

*sigh* it would be a much easier world to navigate if everybody had their psychoses labeled on their foreheads. :P

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. The Mark of the Beast

Maybe some parts of the bible are actually prophetic! lol

[Swamp Rat]

51. weeeeeee!!!

:D

[demmiblue]

15. Much more effective than restraining orders.

And we all know how effective restraining orders are!

[inna]

16. "outlawing psychological violence in the home" - what does that even mean,

in practical terms? How could that possibly be enforced (and monitored)?

[leftstreet]

17. I wondered that, too

Maybe a translation problem?

Perhaps they meant 'criminalizing' it...

:shrug:

[krabigirl]

19. cameras in the home? Wouldn't put it past them..

[krabigirl]

18. I think this is a horrible idea, but whatever. Big brother....

[boston bean]

21. 3 women every single day are murdered by a partner here in the US..

Over 1,000 women every single year.

[47of74]

23. I think it should be equal opportunity - women too

You know, there is such a thing as battered husbands who have been beaten and even murdered by their wives. The women who abuse others should be held to the exact same standard.

[Forkboy]

24. Easy answer to both sexes...don't get married.

Is this the kind of shit you link with being romantic? I think not. Fuck the whole mess and just live with who you get on (or off) with.

[femrap]

26. Forkboy...

you've lost your spoon and knife. Do you actually think that only MARRIED women are beaten and killed?????

[Forkboy]

28. No.

And I'm sorry my response was as jovial as it was. Just have hockey on the brain today.

[Codeine]

36. delete

[bridgit]

27. Works for me

[KitSileya]

35. A good idea.

I think that if someone has a restraining order taken out on them (regardless of the relationship between the two) they should be forced to wear a (non-conspicuous) bracelet/anklet, and the person who took out the restraining order should be given a gizmo that causes the perpetrator's bracelet to make really loud noises should they get too close.

[Echo In Light]

39. Agree in theory, but against further Big Bro techniques of monitoring people

[EFerrari]

44. Good. I hope it passes.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

48. ..."Seen as likely to be"? Sounds like something out of Minority Report...

I'm all in favour of punishing men (or women) who *are* guilty of violence towards their partners.

Punishing those who are "seen as likely to be" violent towards their partners sounds like a very slippery slope - "yes, we know you didn't actually break the law, but we think you might have been going to, so we're going to lock you up just in case".