Underage drinking? Colleges may tell mom, dad

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Underage drinking? Colleges may tell mom, dad
Some schools tell parents of even minor violations in effort to curb problem

updated 1 hour, 22 minutes ago

At Virginia Tech, where tailgating and raucous apartment complex parties are time-honored rituals, university officials are turning increasingly to Mom and Dad to curb problem underage drinking.

This semester, the school in Blacksburg, Va., began notifying parents when their under-21 students are found guilty of even minor alcohol violations such as getting caught with a beer in a dorm room.

Although it's common for colleges to alert parents of major alcohol offenses — or when a student faces suspension — Virginia Tech is part of a small but growing number sending letters home on minor ones.

The debate about how much to involve parents in such cases is a balancing act for colleges and universities. Officials want to hold young adults accountable as they venture out on their own, are well aware that drinking is part of the college experience, and also recognize potential allies in a generation of hands-on parents who can help when things go too far.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35632770/ns/health-addictions/

[DJ13]

1. The ACLU should be fighting this

Those students 18 and older are legally adults, not children.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. I';d have thought the restriction on adult drinking would be of more concern

than whether the parents are told.

Is the ACLU working to get the drinking age to 18?

[Lyric]

19. I think the point DJ13 was making is that this is a privacy issue.

As soon as you're 18, colleges aren't even allowed to tell your parents that you got a bad grade unless you sign a form specifically giving them permission to disclose that information. Unless there are formal public charges involved (in which case it becomes a matter of public record anyway) then I can't understand how a college could bypass the privacy rules to disclose information like this about students. However, the article seemed to indicate that the college is pursuing this course for "minor" violations--the kind of stuff that does not involve any formal criminal charges. With that in mind, I agree with DJ13--I don't see how they can do this without violating the federal privacy regulations that forbid disclosure of private information without written permission from the student. Over-18s are adults, after all. They have the right to decide for themselves what information their parents can see and what they cannot (not counting any public criminal charges, of course.)

[onenote]

91. there is an express exception to FERPA that allows this sort of disclosure

See post number 52

[DrDan]

4. not when it comes to drinking - that is still 21

[Hello_Kitty]

50. So? That doesn't mean they are under the control of their parents. eom

[lame54]

95. But who is footing the bill?

[Jamastiene]

2. Sending notes home to mommy and daddy?

Please... :eyes:

[Nikki Stone1]

5. So why weren't Cho's parents informed when he was going psycho--BEFORE he shot 33 kids?

Drinking, yes. Homicidal mania, no?

[t0dd]

6. How about just lowering the drinking age to 18 instead?

you know, like the rest of the industrialized world? :shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

7. we are going the other way

common sense left the room sometime around 1980.

[alp227]

13. Hell yeah. There's no evidence that a higher drinking age helped much

if you go to a college party or even high schoolers' parties.

Lesley Stahl had an interesting report about the debate on lowering the drinking age last year on 60 Minutes: .

The only reason why the age went up to 21 is because the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 tied federal highway funding to states raising the lower age limit. That was also pushed by the group Mothers Against Drunk Driving, whose founder lost a daughter to a 46-year-old drunk driver. So where's the hard evidence that 18-year-olds were crashing their cars under the influence? :shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. America seems to like the Islamic way better. -nt

[Withywindle]

111. The DRIVING age in most of the industrialized world is 18.

The higher drinking age came out of the MADD craze to reduce underage drunk driving.

But, speaking as someone who got her driver's license at 16 - teenagers are AWFUL drivers even sober. I sure was. The insanely low driving age we have is to facilitate child labor and parental convenience - but the insanely high drinking age exists for the same reason. Americans are too dependent on cars. In most of the rest of the world--certainly the towns and cities I've visited in Europe, Canada, South America, and SE Asia, public transportation is SO MUCH BETTER than it is in all but the hugest cities in the US, that drunk driving does not need to be a major concern for any age group. Either the town is small enough that everyone can walk home, or it's big enough that there is always a cheap taxi service or tram or train or bus.

[3waygeek]

8. Seems pretty unnecessary to me...

how out of it do you have to be to know that college students drink?

[liberal_at_heart]

9. I would want to be notified especially if my kid were binge drinking

My daughter will be the first to go off to college and I worry about the binge drinking. Very bad stuff can happen. Some mistakes you just can't take back, like killing someone in a drunk driving accident, falling off a balcony, having sex when you are so wasted you don't even realize you are having sex, getting a disease, getting beaten or murdered. I just don't understand why anyone especially young women would be willing to lose control over their own bodies like that.

[LeftyMom]

25. Should they tell you if she sleeps around or drives dangerously, too?

What if she cuts class a lot?

Once kids are out and on their own it's time to cut the fucking cord and let them make a few mistakes and learn from them. Otherwise they never will.

[liberal_at_heart]

26. Good then when she does make a mistake I won't get a phone call asking me for bail will I?

[LeftyMom]

32. Hell, I don't know. Draw boundaries with your own adult child.

In that situation you could always tell her to sit and wait, too (that's usually the best way to make sure you won't get that call again, one way or the other.)

But when she's an adult she'll have a right to privacy and it's not the school's place to violate it, whether or not she needs remedial parenting.

[Obamanaut]

10. If the parents are footing the bill, they have every right to know how

their underage children are wasting, er, spending their money.

[verdalaven]

21. As a parent footing the bill

Agreed.

[liberal_at_heart]

22. I have been taking classes at a community college

I'm in my thirties and have two children one who will be going to college in a few years. There is a distinct difference between students who work and have to pay their own bills and those who's parents pay the bills. The ones who work know they can't afford to blow the opportunity they have. They tend to work much harder and take their responsibilities much more serious. However it is very hard to work and go to college and I don't think the statistics are very good for the percentage of working college students who actually get to graduate. I will be helping my kids with their tuition but they also know I don't have enough money to pay for all of it. My daughter is working very hard to qualify for scholaerships and she may work some while she is in college. If I were paying her way and found out she were binge drinking I may just tell her that if she wants to be treated like an adult then she can just pay her own way entirely. If they want to be treated like adults then they can be thrown out into the cold world that is the adult world and deal with the responsibility without help from mommy and daddy.

[NYC Liberal]

27. Wrong. If they don't want to pay then they shouldn't pay.

They could stay involved with their kids and find out that way, but otherwise the *school* should have no authority to release that information. None.

And the "children" are adults.

[Obamanaut]

33. Wrong back atcha. How many times have we read, right here on

DU, that 'children' in the 18 yr old range don't have completely formed thinking capabilities, that these functions are still developing. They are either adults, or they aren't - can't have it both ways just to fit the argument.

Here is an example, from the pages of DU, of a 25 yr old who doesn't appear to have finished the developing process

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7814785


“…is 25, a fifth-year senior. He swears he just wants to drink beer and have fun…”

This is the sort of 'adult student' who should be paying his own way. If he is, more power to him.

If this is the behavior of a student who is under the legal drinking age, the parents of that student have a right to know, if they are paying the bills.

[liberal_at_heart]

45. Right. As parents we pay for their education not their recreation

If they want to party then they can pay their own way. My husband has already made it very clear he will not be paying for a Spring Break vacation. If our grown daughter wants to take it on herself to get drunk and have sex she can pay for it. We're not going to pay money so that our daughter can have drunken sex.

[Dappleganger]

46. Agreed. nt

[Toasterlad]

58. Exactly. She's Not Allowed To Have Any Fun Until She Has To Go To Work To Earn a Living For Herself

Speaking as someone who payed his own way through college and was more than a little contemptuous of those who didn't, I'm DELIGHTED that my parents were nothing like you.

[liberal_at_heart]

59. Well good for you

I don't care what you think of me. I am a concerned parent. I have a daughter who will be going off to college soon and not only are the statistics for drinking horrible the statistics for rape are horrible too. I'm sure there lots of college boys out ther just delighted that a new crop of 18 yr old girls arrives on campus every year. Fresh meat for them. All they have to do is get them drunk. Easy pickins. Well excuse me if I care about my daughter.

[chrisa]

67. I may be biased, but

My first roomate, as a freshman, was an absolute creep. He used to do this all of the time with girls. There were so many creeps on my campus, it was unbelievable.

My friend was also naive, got drunk, and had someone take advantage of her at another school. I don't talk to her much anymore, but she was really torn up about it, while the sick little creeper that did it is probably laughing and doing the same thing over and over again, calling it "getting laid." This is a huge problem, starting with our culture and corrupted views on sex.

Sorry if this offends anybody. This just makes me very mad, and sad at the same time for people who are taken advantage of by the disgusting creeps out there.

[liberal_at_heart]

68. where is the consequence for the boy in this situation?

The blame gets put on the girl for getting drunk and nothing happens to the boy because it was consentual. Creeps.

[chrisa]

70. Yeah, it's very sad.

He was a very creepy person. I stuck the year out barely, and then ran. I knew it was going to be a bad year when a group of his friends killed someone I knew from High School's pet goldfish by pouring chemicals into the fishbowl, and he thought it was absolutely hillarious. I told him that it wasn't funny, and it was disgusting. He was also talking crap about me behind my back. Those guys were just an absolute, epic failure at humanity.

Roomed with my friend the next year, and it was a whole different experience.

[CTLawGuy]

113. probably better to have written

"a group of his friends killed the goldfish of someone I knew in high school" haha.

I thought for a sec that they had killed the person you knew from high school.

[KittyWampus]

94. apparently your only concept of having fun = drunken sex.

[liberal_at_heart]

96. I am under no illusions when it comes to my children

I know when they go to college they are likely to have sex and even likely to drink. My concern is that done together and in excess can lead to disaster. In practicality terms condoms are only about 85% effective because sometimes people don't use them right. What is the probability that someone is going to use a condom right if they have been binge drinking? When binge drinking you have no control over your body which is why you get arrested if you drink and drive. My husband and I have had extensive talks with our daughter and later on will talk to our son. We have talked to our daughter about waiting to have sex until she is ready to deal with the physical and emotional consequences of sex. We have talked to her about birth control. We have talked to her about relationships including abuse. We have told her she needs to be the one putting the condom on the guy so that her life is her hands not in someone else's. Same goes for drinking. She needs to be making her own drinks that way her life is in her hands not someone else's. We have told her that when binge drinking guys will take advantage of her and try to get her to have sex. We have told her that she could be raped if she binge drinks. She could get pregnant or get a disease if she binge drinks. She has to be the one in control. That is the point. It is the binge drinking that I really have a problem with. Binge drinking means you are not in control.

[Toasterlad]

97. That's Clearly The Way You Believe Your Children Define It.

I wonder why you think your children are in such a hurry to go have drunken sex? Could it be because mommy has been leaning over their shoulders their entire lives shrieking "Don't have drunken sex! Don't have drunken sex!"?

[liberal_at_heart]

98. Why are so nasty to everybody?

When I used the term drunken sex I was referring to Spring Break. You cannot tell me that the purpose of Spring Break is not to get drunk and have sex.

[Toasterlad]

100. Moi? Nasty? I Am the Soul of Gentility. In Fact, I Learned To Be Gracious In College.

In between drunken orgies.

The purpose of Spring Break is to cut loose, and yes, part of that involves drinking and sex. And you know what? Part of LIFE involves drinking and sex, for most people. If you chose to abstain from either, that's fine, but college doesn't truly put any more demand on you to indulge; it's just more concentrated than it is in "the real world".

There are people who die from drinking too much. There are people who get pregnant or contract STDs from sex. And these things happen both in college and outside college. Most people make it through college just fine without dying, just like most people who don't go to college make it to 25 just fine without dying.

College is a time for self-discovery, and part of that discovery is how one chooses to deal with drinking and sex. Everyone has to make their own mistakes in life, and the situation is NEVER helped by an over-anxious parent who refuses to let their child become an adult.

[liberal_at_heart]

101. Well try to remember that when you have a daughter

It is our job as parents to love and protect. My husband and I are strict as our parents were not. My husband dealt drugs when he was a teenager and I was pregnant by 16. My daughter is 15 and is as of now not pregnant, has a 3.4 GPA, and volunteers for the Humane Society. Am I naive enough to think she will never experiment? No. That it why we have had many discussions about how to be responsible if she does decide to experiment. Responsible means being sober enough to properly put a condom not so drunk that you get Herpes or get pregnant. I am her parent and it is my job to teach her to be responsible for her own safety which is exactly what we as parents teach her to be.

[Toasterlad]

103. I Can Assure You That There's No Chance Of Me Having a Daughter

Not because I'm gay (which I am), but because I know that I'd be a terrible father. I only wish more people knew themselves as well as I know myself; maybe our society wouldn't be such a mess.

I don't believe it's your JOB to love and protect your child. Hopefully, you'll do that anyway. Your JOB as a parent is to RAISE your child to be a strong, self-sufficient individual. You don't do that by keeping her tied to your apron strings until she's 30.

I'm glad you love your child, and I'm delighted that you're determined to keep her from making the same mistakes that you and your husband made. I'm glad that she is a smart and caring individual. But she's GOING to make mistakes at some point, and I can assure you, as I've seen it happen numerous times among friends and family, that the mistakes will only be compounded if you and your husband are constantly overdramatizing the dangers of growing up.

What happened to you isn't automatically going to happen to your daughter, with or without your efforts to educate her, and while it's admirable to discuss the consequences of drinking, drugs and sex with her, it's possible to OVER discuss it. Sooner or later, your daughter has to confront these things on her own, and have her own experiences. Which have nothing to do with you.

[liberal_at_heart]

105. You seem to assume to know alot about the way I parent

My daughter has made mistakes and we have loved her through all of them. She knows we will always be there for her no matter what. But that does not mean we shy away from our job to educate her. You are free to your opinion, but frankly your opinion has no bearing on how I parent. You have no idea what my relationship is with my daughter. You may have an opinion about how your parents raised you. Maybe you think they over parented you, but that does not mean that my daughter thinks we over parent her. She has told us she appreciates the fact that she can come to us when she is concerned about something. She knows we will talk to her, educate her, empower her, be there for her and help her. I have told her many times that we are here to help her. Teenagers can often feel lost and don't know what to do or where to turn. Our daughter knows she can turn to us for help. You can call it over parenting if you want. I really don't care. Now that she is almost grown I do reflect on how proud I am of who she is becoming. She does volunteer for the Humane Society. She has a 3.4 GPA. She has a fantastic sharp sense of humor. She is a fabulous artist. She is funny, forgetful, and clumsy all of which just endears her even more to those who like and love her. She does make mistakes. When she does we usually ground her to teach her there are consequences for your actions and we go on loving her no matter what mistakes she makes. She wants to be a veterinarian. She likes it when we talk to her about how she can take control of her life. She takes responsibility for her mistakes and relishes in her accomplishments. I don't know how we did it but I think we are raising one hell of a woman.

[liberal_at_heart]

106. she's strong willed and an independent thinker too and also an atheist

which I really admire. I admire that she can be strong enough to believe the way she wants to believe no matter what anybody else thinks of her. She's very strong willed and agrumentative. We've often told her she would make a great lawyer. But what she really wants to be is a veterinarian. She's is going to be a very strong, independent woman and I think that learning how to be in control of her safetey is only going to empower her more in being that strong and independent woman.

[Toasterlad]

57. If You Don't Trust Your Child Enough To Pay For His Education, Then Don't Pay For His Education.

What he does at college is HIS business, not yours...even if you ARE footing the bill. If you don't like those terms, then don't foot the bill.

[Maru Kitteh]

87. Oh bullshit. Even the lottery comes with terms and conditions.

You're a student and you don't like the terms? Simple. Get your own damn money.

[Toasterlad]

90. That's Exactly What I Said.

If you don't want your child to make his own decisions in college, don't pay for it. If you pay for it and don't like what your adult child is doing with your money, then you should invest your money more wisely in the future.

Putting your child through school does not make him your indentured servant. You should not be able to make decisions for your adult offspring. Either pay for it and shut up, or don't pay for it and shut up.

And yes, college comes with terms and conditions. If you don't work, you'll flunk out. No matter what mommy and daddy say.

[Maru Kitteh]

92. Uh no, it isn't. College has a right to their terms and so do parents if they so wish.

It's ridiculous for any child to think they have some unalienable right to suck up other people's money and not comply with any conditions.

Don't like it? Get your own money.

[Toasterlad]

93. I Didn't Say Parents Didn't Have the Right To Set Terms For Their Adult Children

I just said that, if they do, they're bad parents.

In fact, I'll even concede this much: if parents want to sit down with their kid and negotiate a reasonable minimum GPA expectation, based on the kid's previous scholastic record and taking into account the course load and adjustment factors - in short, if they want to reduce their relationship with the child to that of bank loan applicant - more power to 'em. But no bank in the world has the authority to place restrictions on someone's social life.

If you don't trust your child enough to put them through school without looking over their shoulder for four years, you shouldn't put them through school. If you do, that's YOUR decision, not theirs, and you shouldn't hold THEM accountable for what you chose to do with YOUR money.

[Maru Kitteh]

99. Yer funny. I blame a culture & system that raised you to believe your ass should be kissed 24/7.

So to some extent, this belief you hold is not in any way surprising.

I know it's a rude chunk of cheese to swallow, but out in the world, when you accept money from people willing to give it to you, those people make the determination under what terms and conditions you must comply with. The onus is upon the recipient.

Don't like it? Get your own money.

[Toasterlad]

102. I Absolutely Agree. And Over-Parenting, Which Is What You're Suggesting, Is Responsible For That.

The flip side of raising your child to believe that everyone should kiss his ass is continuing to try and parent him when he should be making his own decisions. In short: infantilizing your child. They're two sides to the same coin.

I can assure you that MY parents didn't raise me to believe I should have my ass kissed, and they weren't making decisions for me when I should be making my own decisions. With six kids, they frankly didn't have the time, but then again, they weren't micro-managing types in any case. They raised me to be self-sufficient, to trust my judgment, and to be able to recover from mistakes all on my own.

You keep saying "Get your own money" like I'm suggesting something entirely different. I'm not forcing parents to pay for jack. I'm not even telling them they can't set restrictions should they chose to pay for college tuition for their children. What you're ignoring in your "everyone sets conditions" zealotry is the point I've previously made: NO ONE sets restrictions on social behavior, outside of a courtroom setting. A bank would be completely out of line if it told you that it would lend you money only if you don't drink or have sex, and a parent is equally out of line making such demands on an adult child, no matter how much money they're forking over.

If a parent does not believe a child is performing to the best of his ability in college, they have every right to pull the financial plug. They don't HAVE to send their child to college at all. But if they DO choose to pay for their child, that doesn't give them the right to interfere in that child's social life. If they do, they're a shitty parent.

[Maru Kitteh]

107. I Think Someone Is Owed A Refund For Your Eng. Comp. I&II Classes,

but I digress.

"The flip side of raising your child to believe that everyone should kiss his ass is continuing to try and parent him when he should be making his own decisions."

The child is obviously free to make their own decisions. They're not free to expect consequence-free actions with someone else's money.


"I'm not forcing parents to pay for jack."

Well DUH. You can't.


"A bank would be completely out of line if it told you that it would lend you money only if you don't drink or have sex, and a parent is equally out of line making such demands on an adult child, no matter how much money they're forking over."

Ah HA! There's you're problem! You think parents are like banks. They're not. You can cry all you want about parents being "out of line" by having certain terms, conditions, expectations, whatever the hell you want to call them but a parent is not a bank.

Kid doesn't like it? The kid can get their own money - like say, I dunno, from a bank!

[Toasterlad]

108. Too Bad Your Kids Can't Get a Refund On Your Parenting

Of the two of us, I can assure you that I'm not the one with the comprehension problem.

YOU are the one who said that other institutions are free to set conditions when they loan money. YOU are the one who compared parenting to banking. Seems to me that YOU'RE the one who fails to understand the difference between being a parent and being a lending institution.

It would be kinda sweet if your children don't take a dime from you for college, and then took drunken pictures of themselves having sex on spring break and sent them to you and dared you to do something about it.

[Maru Kitteh]

110. And I would giggle my ass off if you settled down with Mr. Right and had a six pack of assholes who

spent every dime you ever made on gold-plated bibles and Ronald Reagan commemorative plates all the while telling you it was going to tuition and books.

And before you say "It Would Be My Fault For Giving Them The Money" let me say nuh-uh baby. You already dug that hole. That makes you a shitty parent, as per your own words. What they do at college is THEIR business, not yours. Remember?

As a matter of fact, this whole exchange was started by your insistence that it was the recipient of free money is the one who has some right to set terms. Your post:

" If You Don't Trust Your Child Enough To Pay For His Education, Then Don't Pay For His Education.

What he does at college is HIS business, not yours...even if you ARE footing the bill. If you don't like those terms, then don't foot the bill."

Let us consider this, or in your style: Let Us Consider This.

Parents to Child: "We want to help you with tuition, books, room and board as much as we are able."
Child: "Give me the money but fuck-if-all if I'm going to tell you what it's being spent on. Now hand it over. If you don't like those terms, then don't foot the bill."

[NYC Liberal]

77. And how are other people's arguments on DU relevant to what I'm arguing now?

If parents choose to pay for their kid's (kid in the simple sense of offspring, not child vs adult) that is their decision. And they can, I don't know, be parents. The parents can come to an understanding with the kid about how much they will be involved, and if the kid doesn't want to agree to that then they're on their own.

The only information that parents have *arguably* might have a right to is failing grades. Maybe.

Again, the school should not be in the business of doing parenting.

[CTLawGuy]

112. there are people who NEVER get completely formed thinking capabilities

(see the Republican party).

Only in America do we have 13 year old adults (in the criminal context) and 20 year old children (in the drinking context). Now THAT reflects some not fully formed thinking capabilities!

[Xithras]

53. Yes, but while they're "adults", they're also legally still "dependents"

That's where the rights of the parents originate. As long as the parents can legally claim them as dependents, they do maintain certain legal rights to their information.

The difference is that in the US in nearly all states*, any person may choose to opt-out of being claimed as a dependent at 18. Nothing is being forced here, which is why the ACLU has little room to file complaints. Any student, over the age of 18, can close all of their records to their parents by simply requesting it. The school cannot refuse.

The problem, of course, is that by doing so you also lose the ability to claim them for certain types of financial support, you lose the ability to be insured under their health plans, etc. Because college tuition is partially deductible, and because nuking the dependent status also eliminates their ability to claim that deduction, it also reduces the ability of parents to offer financial assistance.

I have a 16 year old daughter, and don't really have a problem with any of this. If I'm paying for her college education in a couple of years, I want to know that my gobs of money are being spent wisely, and that she's getting good grades, going to class, and not getting drunk every night. If she doesn't want me to see that information, it will be her right to terminate my ability, but the flipside is that it will then be HER responsibility to fund her way through college, insure her own health, and pay for her own living expenses.

Just as the rights of adults to their own privacy and to set their own life course begins at 18, so too do the responsibilities of parents to provide for their children and their children's educations end at 18. Once that 18th birthday is passed, the relationship changes from one of legal mandates and responsibilities to one of mutual consent. If one side of this relationship no longer consents, that is their choice, but they must acknowledge, accept, and live with the very real legal and financial consequences of that decision. Existing as a dependent is a very beneficial thing for college students, but it does require that they sacrifice some privacy to those who support them. If they don't want to make that sacrifice, they lose that benefit. As adults, they get to make that very adult choice.

[liberal_at_heart]

64. +1

[NYC Liberal]

78. I don't have a problem with most of what you've said:

Just as the rights of adults to their own privacy and to set their own life course begins at 18, so too do the responsibilities of parents to provide for their children and their children's educations end at 18. Once that 18th birthday is passed, the relationship changes from one of legal mandates and responsibilities to one of mutual consent. If one side of this relationship no longer consents, that is their choice, but they must acknowledge, accept, and live with the very real legal and financial consequences of that decision. Existing as a dependent is a very beneficial thing for college students, but it does require that they sacrifice some privacy to those who support them. If they don't want to make that sacrifice, they lose that benefit. As adults, they get to make that very adult choice.

I agree with this. Parents can *choose* whether to pay for tuition - in part or in whole - and have understandings with their kids about what that entails. But it ought to be the responsibility of the parent to keep up as best as possible what their kid is up to, without the school getting involved.

Or rather, like you said - the parents can say "If we pay for tuition, you have to allow the school to keep me informed, otherwise you're welcome to pay for your education."

[Flying Dream Blues]

69. Sorry for the digression, but that picture! I love it!

(and I just stole it!) :)

[NYC Liberal]

79. Haha I do too! Search Google Images for obama cowboy hat

and there's more there.

[chrisa]

63. I tend to agree with this.

I said downthread that students' parents shouldn't be notified, but my parents never paid a cent for my college (I'm a senior this year). As a result, I take school very seriously (though I'm very laid back). These "daddy-paid" students, however, make me feel bad for those parents, because their hard-earned money is being pissed away for students who never go to class, and think that their main objective at school is to party.

[maxsolomon]

66. 18 year olds are not "underage"

they are, with this 1 exception, fully legal adults.

[Obamanaut]

76. So, for this one exception, they are "underage", and their drinking

activities are illegal.

[MadBadger]

11. Unrec...not to you, but to the Administration at Virginia Tech

[Odin2005]

12. And the infantilization of American Youth continues.

:banghead:

[Scout]

74. yeah, 'cuz those college students who get shitfaced all the time are such

mature, responsible adults.

:eyes:

[Odin2005]

81. In most societies in history people are considered adults at 15.

[Scout]

83. so? n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

88. And they died before 40 but that's not really relevant here and now.

[alp227]

14. What? I thought only ultra-religious schools treated adults like children

Y'know, of the Bob Jones and Brigham Young types.

But hey. James O'Keefe got released to his parents' custody while out on bail.

I think that college campuses should stop keeping their students ignorant about drinking issues and stuff and just educate and inform more often. Better yet, implement Good Samaritan law or just lower the frickin age limit to 18 already. Because not all parents had "the talk" with their children, right? If I were the residential advisor, I'd ask a troubled student: "Did you go to Freshman Orientation and pay attention?"

(This coming from a college student.)

[tammywammy]

15. I recommend everyone watch this documentary

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/haze/

[Kievan Rus]

16. Lower the drinking age and end this nonsense pronto...

If the powers that be put one tenth of the effort into fighting terrorism that they do into fighting "underage drinking" or the "war on drugs," then I honestly believe that things like 9/11 and the Oklahoma federal building bombing never would have happened.

[brooklynite]

17. My High School (Boarding) served wine at Sunday Dinner...

because wine is a civilized element of a meal, not just a cheap opportunity to get buzzed.

[Forkboy]

18. Awesome...it was my mom who showed me how to drink properly!

:crazy:

[Hello_Kitty]

20. One day I was watching Meredith Viera on whatever morning show she does.

She was interviewing some "college health expert" or something like that. Meredith was shocked, shocked to learn that colleges would not divulge medical information about students to their parents. She couldn't comprehend the fact that young adults were entitled to medical privacy. Yes, even if their parents are paying for their education. As far as notifying parents of anything, I would say only failing grades and only if the parents are paying all or part of the tuition. Drinking, smoking, drug use and sex are the private business of the ADULT engaging in those activities, even those that are technically illegal.

[kevinbgoode]

28. I agree. . . this is ridiculous

if the student is a legal adult, the parents are no longer responsible for the actions of their "child." There is no law REQUIRING parents to pay for college education, is there? It makes sense to me to let the young adult fall on his/her face a few times and learn to pick themselves up on their own - or else they'll never learn to be an adult.

[LiberalFighter]

34. That brings up a point about requiring to pay for college.

What about when parents are ordered by a court to pay for college?

[kevinbgoode]

82. I have always felt that should be challenged.

When someone becomes a legal adult at 18, the parents should not be held responsible for their upkeep. Going to college isn't the parent's choice - it is the adult's choice. IMO, the Courts are wrong to order any parent to pay for an education beyond that of a minor.

[LiberalFighter]

84. I would agree. My parents didn't send me to college or pay for tuition and board.

They did provide some spending money. I had to apply for some work-study and student loans to cover most of the expense.

[CTLawGuy]

114. it is possible

is if such a provision exists in a separation decree - an agreement by a divorcing couple that is approved by the court as the terms of the divorce.

I've seen such things before, usually to ensure that both spouses fairly undertake their share of the burden to pay for college should such a burden be undertaken on behalf of a child of the marriage.

That said, I have not seen any laws requiring parents to pay for college.

[jmm]

23. What about those of us who paid our own way through school?

If students are old enough to be trusted with student loans then they should have some right to privacy.

[ladym55]

24. And from someone who works at a university

It's kind of funny that Virginia Tech thinks that sending a note to mommy and daddy will make a difference. Chances are that mommy and daddy have been providing the alcohol for underage parties since junior was 14. Mommy and daddy may actually come and party with their kiddies some weekends.

About privacy issues ... yep, 18 year olds ARE adults. HOWEVER, the current crop of undergraduates is heavily parented and not very independent. Mommy is more likely to contact the student's academic advisor than the student is. (Student can sign a waiver for that.)

About binge drinking ... it's pretty intense with some not-so-good results. It troubles me that partying = drinkinguntilyouaresowastedyoupeeandpukeonyourself. And this fun activity is done several times a week.

I grew up when the drinking age was 18. Maybe going back to that concept would be the best plan. 21 is a joke.

[Ms. Toad]

29. Hmm...so they would shut me out when my daughter

newly disabled and struggling to figure out how to access the services she needs (for the first time in her life), who failed 1/3 of her classes last semester because she couldn't figure out quickly enough how to make the system work, who wants me involved to help - and has told them she wants me involved - but they are going to tattle on her when she is drinking, without her consent?

There's something major wrong with this picture.

First - parents need to develop a relationship with their kids so that their kids will talk to them when they are exploring drinking. If the relationship isn't there, running to mom and dad when drinking starts isn't going to make a whit of difference. Yes - we went through that my daughter's first year at college as well, and yes, we talked about the possibility she might experiment with alcohol (drugs, sex, etc.), and yes we talked about the first alcohol use shortly after it happened.

Second - kids don't instantaneously turn overnight into fully formed adults capable of managing all of their own affairs (including making responsible decisions about how to spend more money than I've ever spent on any one thing in my life (including house). During the transition between high school and grad school parents who are paying tuition for their kids should be involved in making decisions about what goes on in college - again - preferably negotiated between parent and kids, and NOT shut out just because the college or university has decided that is the best way to instantaneously transform kids into adults.

[NYC Liberal]

30. Well. This is bullshit.

If the parents don't want to pay for their child's education, then let them choose not to. Otherwise, they can stay on top of things in other ways, without having the school be a nanny for an adult.

[liberal_at_heart]

31. So when a student dies from alcohol poisoning on campus the campus has no responsibility?

What about alcohol related rapes? This behavior should just be chalked up to the growing up process huh?

[MellowDem]

37. The campus has no responsibility...

the student involved does. It's not like they are children.

[NYC Liberal]

80. Huh? Where did I say that?

I said schools - or more specifically, colleges - shouldn't be nannies. Dealing with rapes and deaths of students doesn't fall under the umbrella of simple nannying.

[Hippo_Tron]

109. If somebody dies from alcohol poisoning it's their fault for drinking too much

And alcohol doesn't cause rape. Having sex with somebody without their consent causes rape.

If the college wants to do something to prevent those things they should have substance abuse treatment available and certainly encourage those with problems to seek counseling. But legal adults are responsible for their own actions and 18 year olds are legal adults in this country.

[MellowDem]

35. The only real solution...

is to lower the drinking age to begin changing the culture of college drinking. Too bad our representatives are too stupid or too cowardly to approach this issue seriously, just like weed.

[SoCalDem]

36. Unless Mom & Dad were raised in a remote cave somewhere, they "know"

Hopefully, many parents sit their college-bound kids down & remind them how dangerous binge drinking is..and how it's not a crime to imbibe a little at parties....with the emphasis on "a little"..

Kids who were joined at the hip to their parents or who lives in a rigid household may not be prepared to handle freedom, but unless the kid lives at home, there's not a lot parents can do once the kid is 18..

[Broken_Hero]

38. Hmm, not sure

this will change anything or not. In my experience from the RA/Campus security side, underage drinking was an issue, but from the top of Mens/Women's housing on down, they didn't seem to care one wit about the issue.

Oh, they say they do, with zero tolerance, or a three strike and your out type of policy, but 99.9% of the time infractions involved with underage drinking/drinking was swept under the rug.

One semester we had an underage student who had 11 drinking violations on campus, and the Director of Men's housing gave this kid chance after chance, after chance. During our Thanksgiving break, this same kid stole another RA's van, and crashed it into the Director of Men's housings car....

After that incident, the kid was kicked off campus(a probation period of 5yrs, where he can re-apply). It takes an act of "god" to have any drinking violation/policy be enforced.

Not sure a note telling mommie/daddie will help(doubt it seriously).

[NeedleCast]

39. Just an extention of zero tolerance extended to colleges

Aren't these instituations supposed to be preparing young adults for the working world and life in general? Is tattling to mommy really going to help?

[Gidney N Cloyd]

40. They don't have FERPA in Virginia? nt

[onenote]

52. sure they do. and FERPA allows this sort of disclosure

See 34 Code Fed Regulations Sec 99.31(a)(15) which creates an exception to the no-disclosure rules if:

The disclosure is to a parent of a student at an institution of postsecondary education regarding the student's violation of any Federal, State, or local law, or of any rule or policy of the institution, governing the use or possession of alcohol or a controlled substance if—

(A) The institution determines that the student has committed a disciplinary violation with respect to that use or possession; and

(B) The student is under the age of 21 at the time of the disclosure to the parent.

(ii) Paragraph (a)(15) of this section does not supersede any provision of State law that prohibits an institution of postsecondary education from disclosing information.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

73. Thanks. I had no idea that exception was built in.

[Love Bug]

41. Part of being an adult (over 18) is taking responsiblity for yourself

Dragging mom and dad into something like this is not appropriate. Where does it stop? Overeating is bad for you, too, but are they going to tell mom and dad you gained the "freshman 15"?

[Javaman]

43. May help a little but really won't do much on the larger scale...

I had an intern a year ago last summer. Good kid. He was interning just before leaving for college.

He was pledging for a frat, the 2nd or 3rd week he was there. Never drank, as far as anyone knew, before hand. He died of alcohol poisoning.

He was 18. Underage drinking. How do they stop that?

Then there is binge drinking. The kids get hammered for a whole weekend. Many times, they never leave their dorms. How do they stop that?

I knew of many kids while in college that spiked their coffee. How do they stop that?

The list goes on and on.

All alcohol in a 30 mile radius of any college should be tagged with a spray on bar code.

If those bottle are found at a frat where there is underage drinking, then the store that sold it, should be held responsible.

It's impossible to stop the college students from drinking, but limiting their access to alcohol will help.

[liberal_at_heart]

44. 18 may be adult age but they are still teenagers and definitely act like teenagers when they are 18

The other thread on this board about how teenagers think slower can be applied to campus drinking. They think they are invincible. They think nothing bad will ever happen to them. They don't care if it is illegal. If everybody wants 18 yr olds to be treated like adults, fine. Bring more police into it and arrest teenage drinkers. This kind of behavior is not accepted out side of campus. If you are out in public drunk and underage you get arrested. Why should it be any different on campus? If everybody wants them to be treated like adults fine. Arrest them. I don't understand why young adults seem to think that they can act differently on campus than they can off campus. Maybe because there isn't enough police and they know they can get away with it. As a parent I would be willing to pay more to make sure there was the proper amount of security on campus available that way I don't have to get a call asking me to come identify my child's body.

[Hello_Kitty]

49. Ironic that you get arrested as an adult for violating a law that treats you like a child.

Also, a big part of the reason many young adults these days behave childishly is their parents coddling and infantilizing them well into adulthood.

[liberal_at_heart]

51. Fine. All I'm saying is if they want to be treated like an adult they can pay the adult consequences

When my brother's friend killed his date in a high speed car crash he went to prison. When my brother in law got pulled over for drunk driving he got a DUI. Same goes for college students. Pay the consequences and don't go crying to mommy and daddy and when you screw up.

[Hello_Kitty]

54. Yeah, they're adults. Treat them accordingly.

Start by repealing the bullshit drinking age law.

[liberal_at_heart]

60. oh and the friend who killed his date. Guess who paid his legal bills? His mother.

[TwilightGardener]

47. Under 21? Yeah, I want to know when my kid's doing something that can hurt him.

Especially if I'm footing the bill.

[LaydeeBug]

48. bfd. bt

[Toasterlad]

55. Allow Me To Quote "Footloose", Which Contains the Answers To All Life's Questions:

"If we don't start trusting our children, how will they become trustworthy?"

People attending college should not be treated like children, even when they act like it. College is a place for discovery, and that includes the discovery of what kind of person one is going to be. College has its own way of penalizing those who spend too much time partying and too little time applying themselves. It's called "flunking out".

As a nation, we've become more and more obsessed with sheltering our children from the world, and it has cost us accountability, professionalism, integrity and common courtesy. Today, children are raised to believe that the world must accomodate them, rather than that they must adjust to the world. Infantilizing college age adults only serves to enforce the notion that they can not handle life on their own. Newsflash: some of them CAN'T handle life on their own, but we are not doing them - or society - any favors by denying everyone the opportunity to discover that through personal experience.

Cut the fucking apron strings, America.

[The2ndWheel]

86. Where are we as a species?

"Today, children are raised to believe that the world must accomodate them, rather than that they must adjust to the world."

Do we allow the world to write the rules for us, or do we force the world to adjust to what we want it to be? Is it any wonder that children are raised to believe that? Why wouldn't they be raised to believe that? It's what got our species to where it is today.

[Toasterlad]

89. If You Choose To Live In a Society, You Must Work With the Society

There is a difference between trying to change the world, and expecting the world to change for you. But you are partially correct: believing that the world must change for you is exactly what got our culture (not our species) where it is today: in a huge fucking me-first mess.

[CBR]

56. My college did this while I was in school (1998-2002).

They also told my parents when I had a man in my room after midnight -- it was 12:10 when I walked him out. The horror!!! I then had to go have a counseling session with the Resident Services Director. That was a barrel of laughs. Anyway, it wasn't a big deal because my parents were not paying and they treated me like an adult.

I had one friend, however, who got busted for alcohol in the dorm (underage). Not her dorm and she wasn't drinking but they ticketed everyone in the dorm. Her parents pulled her funding and she dropped out.

[Behind the Aegis]

61. This isn't new.

Many universities have been doing this for quite awhile. It is legal as many have stated above. There are also options for those who don't wish for this to occur. Of course, if the student is paying for his or her own education, the parents will have no rights to this information.

[chrisa]

62. May take flak for this, but I can't stand.

underage party drinkers. They just vandalized everything, threw up everywhere, and were a general annoyance. My first roomate was a creeper who used to use alcohol to take advantage of girls. As you can see, my opinion of underage drinking, based on my experiences, is very negative.

However, their parents shouldn't be notified. They're adults, even though they often act like little children.

[Jennicut]

65. My parents didn't care. They thought the if I was an adult, I could handle If I was going to drink

and how much I had. Really, the drinking age should at the very least be 19. I had a drink with special meals since I was about 15. But my mom is Italian and that was normal in her family growing up. I was desensitized to drinking being a rebellious act at a young age, and I never went crazy in college like so many others did.

[PVnRT]

71. Given that mom & dad will likely sue the school when something bad happens

I can completely understand them wanting to do this.

[pitohui]

72. so what? at 18 yr bigger than your mom and if you're a guy bigger than yr dad

so what the hell are mommy and daddy going to do about it exactly? especially from long distance? b esides, most mommies and daddies will just be relieved that it isn't drugs

learning to handle alcohol is part of what you're supposed to learn in college and you don't learn how to handle alcohol by hiding under the bed and pretending it don't exist

[Scout]

75. "learning to handle alcohol is part of what you're supposed to learn in college"

this is pathetic...

:rofl:

[PVnRT]

85. Really?

And here I spent all my time learning fluid dynamics, reaction kinetics, thermodynamics and chemistry. What a fool I was!

[Hippo_Tron]

104. I'm graduating magna cum laude in the spring and I drink frequently

One can certainly like booze and books, it's just a question of balance. And while not drinking is certainly fine as well, alcohol is going to be around for one's entire life and IMO it might not be a bad idea for one to become acquainted with it and learn their limits while they are still in college.